Fathers and abortion

[Buttaflyy]

And bad things always happen to other people, right? Never to you.

 

And giving birth to an unwanted child is a peace of cake, right? You've obviously never gone through labor or any major physical pain. When somebody forces you to do it (as B_O said "it's a form of rape!") then please tell; me it's OK.

 

Most importantly, we are talking about the LAW here. If you're defending men's rights, you're implying that the LAW should put imperatives on my right to abort or give birth.

 

I absolutely think that men have the right to choose. For god's sake, I just aborted a child two weeks ago because my husband didn't want it. So I am the first in the line to defend their rights. But to involve the LAW in this decision is violating my natural rights. Women choose because nature gave THEM uterus, not the men. The law doesn't interfere (anymore)!

 

To give men legal rights to choose means to take them away from the woman. And it's her body.

 

Being forced by the LAW to go through labor when you don't want to is a major punishment. Nobody has the right to punish me. Nobody has the right to know that I am pregnant, for that matter. And my doctor has to keep a secret. Just like he has to keep a secret if I have AIDS or gonorrhea.

 

This whole "should be illegal" reasoning reminds me of Afghanistan's laws.

 

You totally lost me, I'll try my best to answer you accordingly...

 

I HAVE gone through labor, I have a 11 year old daughter. Worst pain in my life, labor for over 72 hours (i kid you not) and HG which I mentioned previously, makes you feel as if you are dying, slowly, and for me EVERYDAY of my pregnancy! My family was so afraid that I would die. I still don't understand your point tho?. No, I was not forced, and I don't think anyone should be. I just think it's extreme to bring the risk of death into the debate here. Normally, I don't think a woman says, "I don't want to have the baby because I might die", unless she has reason to. Unless she's been warned of death.

[hotgurl]

Don't forget! Since I'm in this discussion to state my views and the logic driving them, and also to find out others views, and the logic driving them, I gave a flip side to my "Fathers Rights" coin. "If a father has no rights to a pregnancy, he should not be held financially liable for that pregnancy or delivery."

 

My thoughts that drove this whole dicussion stem from the fact that I feel there is an unequal division of rights and responsibilities when it comes to mothers, fathers, and the law. Mothers seem to get more legal rights and fathers seem to get more legal responsibilities. I've had plenty of women say that it's BS, women get the worse end of things, but I've yet to find one who would gladly change positions with the man. So, that kind of say's it all. The job of two you don't want is generally the worst, no matter how bad you say the one you pick is.

 

If you don't think father's should have right's about the pregnancy, which seems to be the general consensus with women at least, do you believe fathers should still have financial responsibility for that pregnancy? In other words, why should a father be responsible for the medical bills of a pregnancy he has no rights with?

 

At this point in time, fathers generally have to pay some or all of the medical for pregnancies. As a realist, I understand that this is partly because the government wants to defer medical aid costs out as much as possible. Fathers are a prime target. This sets up a precedent for mothers to hold fathers responsible for the medical costs of a pregnancy even if aid is not recieved. When it comes to spreading out big expenses like that, I find the last thing on most people's minds is fairness.

 

BTW, of course I argue for my own interests as a man! No more than women look out for their own interests as women I'm sure.

 

I like to throw out controversial subjects on boards like this from time to time, just for the fun of discussing it. I never expect to change peoples minds to my point of view, but I do hope to learn something. There's always the danger of a flame war but I think this one turned out pretty good. We had a lot of well thought out responses and no flaming to speak of. I hope everyone enjoyed this as much as I did. We can still go on, but I get the feeling the thread is starting to petter out.

 

Why are you so stuck on medical costs? I have never run into a guy having to pay medical costs of a pregnacy. Child support yes. That is based on income levels.

 

And what legal responsibilities are you talking about. Once the child is born both parties have the same legal responsibilities. Do you think fathers have an extra responsibility that women don't?

 

And in my experience it is the woman the usually does the lions share of child raising. The kid is in her body for 9 months and yes labor & pregnancy can be dangerous. Also breast feeding your body changes. sleepless nights.

 

The fact is when you have sex you take the risk of getting an STD or pregnant. even with BC if you do not want to be a father get it snipped. Once an accidental pregancy occurs bith parties are responsible but it is ultimatly the woman's decision.

 

As a side not all options can be emtionally gut wrenching. An abortion while soem can be ok with it so woman have terrible emtional fall out and get depressed. Adoption can be the same way. And pregnancy reeks havioc on your body not to mention time oof of work and post partum depression etc..

[Guest]

Why are you so stuck on medical costs? I have never run into a guy having to pay medical costs of a pregnacy. Child support yes. That is based on income levels.

 

And what legal responsibilities are you talking about. Once the child is born both parties have the same legal responsibilities. Do you think fathers have an extra responsibility that women don't?

 

And in my experience it is the woman the usually does the lions share of child raising. The kid is in her body for 9 months and yes labor & pregnancy can be dangerous. Also breast feeding your body changes. sleepless nights.

 

The fact is when you have sex you take the risk of getting an STD or pregnant. even with BC if you do not want to be a father get it snipped. Once an accidental pregancy occurs bith parties are responsible but it is ultimatly the woman's decision.

 

As a side not all options can be emtionally gut wrenching. An abortion while soem can be ok with it so woman have terrible emtional fall out and get depressed. Adoption can be the same way. And pregnancy reeks havioc on your body not to mention time oof of work and post partum depression etc..

 

I'm stuck on the edical costs of pregnancy because fathers are getting hit with them. I have a friend whose babydaddy got nailed with it because she recieved aid. I know a few others that paid half, including my brother. I've heard stories of fathers required to pay it all. Maybe it varies from state to state.

 

And this is all hypothetical anyway. We're just BS'ing. I thought I made that clear in the beginning. I know it's a tough subject with no easy answers.

 

Fathers are primarily targets for financial responsibility wheras most mothers get primary custody and the rights to go with it. Even if they equally share financial responsibility, the mother still gets more rights where the child is concerned. In a sense, the mother gets to decide how much the father should pay based upon her decisions.

 

Like I said before, the easiest way to figure out who has the better deal is to honestly ask yourself if you would trade places. Being the custodial parent wins out almost all the time.

[Buttaflyy]

Don't forget! Since I'm in this discussion to state my views and the logic driving them, and also to find out others views, and the logic driving them, I gave a flip side to my "Fathers Rights" coin. "If a father has no rights to a pregnancy, he should not be held financially liable for that pregnancy or delivery."

 

My thoughts that drove this whole dicussion stem from the fact that I feel there is an unequal division of rights and responsibilities when it comes to mothers, fathers, and the law. Mothers seem to get more legal rights and fathers seem to get more legal responsibilities. I've had plenty of women say that it's BS, women get the worse end of things, but I've yet to find one who would gladly change positions with the man. So, that kind of say's it all. The job of two you don't want is generally the worst, no matter how bad you say the one you pick is.

 

I dont think you are really listening to the opposing views. I also, do not expect to change your mind, or anyone else's but I want you to clearly understand our point in this...

Mother's may seem to get more legal rights, but this is because in a normal situation, mother is carrying, and raising the child. The law is based so that there should be equal responsibility in raising the child. If things are taken to court, most likely dad is not taking on his part of responsibility and has to be sued for it. This is the same if mom is not responsible in her part. The Law is designed so that both parents (as it does take two) takes part in providing finances for the child. The money is awarded to the custodial parent, this is most times the mother. It's not about picking the easier or worst job as you say. It's about getting support from the missing parent. Raising a child is far from an easy task, however, as a mother I won't consider it to be the worst of my choices in the situation, whether I do it alone or not. Because I bonded with my child from the first time I've realized she was concieved, I take it that it may be the reason why I feel the way I do. The reason I understand that no matter what my choice was, to keep her, or if it had been to abort her. It was MY choice alone. Did I consider his feelings, yes. I happened to have his blessing, but either way I could do what I wanted with my body. Did he share in the responsibility of my choice? Yes! It was his seed I was carrying. His choice and responsibility (as well as mine) took place way before my child was concieved. After that, it's my body, and my choice in what to do with it.

 

If you don't think father's should have right's about the pregnancy, which seems to be the general consensus with women at least, do you believe fathers should still have financial responsibility for that pregnancy? In other words, why should a father be responsible for the medical bills of a pregnancy he has no rights with?

 

Of course he should share equal financial responsibility. It's his child! To the fathers out there, know who you are sleeping with. Protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies.

 

I've told you guys about my brother who has custody of his two girls, they don't see their mom, don't show that they miss her anymore, they're regular happy girls. But I tell them all the time, that their dad is also their parent and he did what he was supposed to do, that's why GOD gave us two parents, so when one is lacking the other is there. They had two chances. I truly feel this way, that their is shared responsibility in parenting. But because of obvious reasons the mother can do what she wishes in the early stages of the pregnancy. I agree with this as well. It just makes sense.

 

This was a good debate IMO! No flame wars. Please Guest, respond.

[hotgurl]

I would also like to add that men do have rights. They have rights over thier sperm. They control who thier sperm goes into etc.. It's just ther rights happen before conception.

 

So if a man does not want kids he should always make sure he wears a condom, don't take a woman at her word about being on the pill. He has control who he sleeps with, talk to your partner about birth control and what happens in case of an accident. He can have a bisectimy it he never wants kids. Also they are coming out with a male pill that would give men more control over thier fertility. Or pratice abstinance.

 

Converesly. If a man wants a child he is free to find a partner who shares his desire.

[Buttaflyy]

I would also like to add that men do have rights. They have rights over thier sperm. They control who thier sperm goes into etc.. It's just ther rights happen before conception.

 

So if a man does not want kids he should always make sure he wears a condom, don't take a woman at her word about being on the pill. He has control who he sleeps with, talk to your partner about birth control and what happens in case of an accident. He can have a bisectimy it he never wants kids. Also they are coming out with a male pill that would give men more control over thier fertility. Or pratice abstinance.

 

Converesly. If a man wants a child he is free to find a partner who shares his desire.

 

 

There it is! I shall say no more.

[a4a]

Well that is all well and good but some women such as the married one I mentioned swore to her H that she was on the pill.... she flushed the pills.

 

So there was a choice as to what method to use between the couple..... the pill. She lied. I know because this is my X's sister who did this. She admits to it.

 

So now he is stuck in a shakey marriage and now there is a child he did not want.

 

Do you think she would have done this knowing that the man could sign off on his parental rights and not have to support the child..... I don't think she would have.

 

At least allow the man that right. More so if the woman is caught in a out right lie.

 

Many women do use the I am pregnant thing as a trap......hell for that matter just lie about it even.

 

It is shameful that they can destroy a mans life through lies without ever facing the consquences of doing so. And get a monthly check for doing it.

[Woggle]

The child not be punished for what a woman did. No matter what she did the child is still innocent and deserves to have a father. I think a better solution would be to allow any father tricked into fatherhood if he can provide stable home to sue for custody and make the mother pay support since a woman who uses children as a weapon is not a good role model anyway.

[Buttaflyy]

Well that is all well and good but some women such as the married one I mentioned swore to her H that she was on the pill.... she flushed the pills.

 

So there was a choice as to what method to use between the couple..... the pill. She lied. I know because this is my X's sister who did this. She admits to it.

 

So now he is stuck in a shakey marriage and now there is a child he did not want.

 

Do you think she would have done this knowing that the man could sign off on his parental rights and not have to support the child..... I don't think she would have.

 

At least allow the man that right. More so if the woman is caught in a out right lie.

 

Many women do use the I am pregnant thing as a trap......hell for that matter just lie about it even.

 

It is shameful that they can destroy a mans life through lies without ever facing the consquences of doing so. And get a monthly check for doing it.

 

A4a, you made me break my word. I just cant help myself sometimes.

 

Trickery is never good! I don't side with a woman that does this. But the fact still remains that he should have protected HIMSELF. Men shouldn't trust that a woman is on the pill and using them properly. Because of factors such as this. I wouldn't if I were a man, because if I don't want children I'm not leaving my choice in someone else's hands. This happens all too often.

 

As a woman, when they come out with that pill for men, I won't trust that he's using it. I never trust a man that says "I have no STD's, no need for a condom." It's the same thing here IMO. Buddy's gonna wrap it up, because it's my life in MY hands. That's the least that I can do in being responsible for what happens to me. Men trick women too. It happens.

[Guest]

I dont think you are really listening to the opposing views. I also, do not expect to change your mind, or anyone else's but I want you to clearly understand our point in this...

Mother's may seem to get more legal rights, but this is because in a normal situation, mother is carrying, and raising the child. The law is based so that there should be equal responsibility in raising the child. If things are taken to court, most likely dad is not taking on his part of responsibility and has to be sued for it. This is the same if mom is not responsible in her part. The Law is designed so that both parents (as it does take two) takes part in providing finances for the child. The money is awarded to the custodial parent, this is most times the mother. It's not about picking the easier or worst job as you say. It's about getting support from the missing parent. Raising a child is far from an easy task, however, as a mother I won't consider it to be the worst of my choices in the situation, whether I do it alone or not. Because I bonded with my child from the first time I've realized she was concieved, I take it that it may be the reason why I feel the way I do. The reason I understand that no matter what my choice was, to keep her, or if it had been to abort her. It was MY choice alone. Did I consider his feelings, yes. I happened to have his blessing, but either way I could do what I wanted with my body. Did he share in the responsibility of my choice? Yes! It was his seed I was carrying. His choice and responsibility (as well as mine) took place way before my child was concieved. After that, it's my body, and my choice in what to do with it.

 

 

 

Of course he should share equal financial responsibility. It's his child! To the fathers out there, know who you are sleeping with. Protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies.

 

I've told you guys about my brother who has custody of his two girls, they don't see their mom, don't show that they miss her anymore, they're regular happy girls. But I tell them all the time, that their dad is also their parent and he did what he was supposed to do, that's why GOD gave us two parents, so when one is lacking the other is there. They had two chances. I truly feel this way, that their is shared responsibility in parenting. But because of obvious reasons the mother can do what she wishes in the early stages of the pregnancy. I agree with this as well. It just makes sense.

 

This was a good debate IMO! No flame wars. Please Guest, respond.

 

 

I am listening. I just have a different logical viewpoint. Most posts have confirmed what I initially believed though. It's a standard social value right now that responsibilites be equally divided, while rights favor the custodial parent and/or mother, who are usually one and the same. And they do so just because they are the mother. Plenty of emotional reasons and generalizations about the tendancies of men and women are given as justification, but none that have a truly sexually unbiased and logical base. I find this situation unfair and a bit sexist. When you're talking about equality of the sexes, you can't cherry pick what situations you would like it applied to. It has to be across the board.

 

IMHO rights AND responsibilities have to be divided equally for it to be fair. Rights are generally the enjoyable parts, while responsibilities are generally the parts not so enjoyable. To be fair among two involved parties, both should be divided equally. Given, this is a viewpoint based solely on cold logic. Rarely is life lucky enough to be so simple.

 

There is also the point (which I do empathize with) that biology is sexist by nature, and women have no choice but to be the ones that carry and deliver the baby. Just as men have no choice about their physical attributes. What this means exactly, is a very old argument. What priviledges should the sexes enjoy based upon their physiology? Which ones should be compensated for by legislation? When you strive for equality, does that mean the unwritten laws of social values should be leveled also? Or only the written law of the land?

 

All hard questions with no easy answers.

[Guest]

I would also like to add that men do have rights. They have rights over thier sperm. They control who thier sperm goes into etc.. It's just ther rights happen before conception.

 

So if a man does not want kids he should always make sure he wears a condom, don't take a woman at her word about being on the pill. He has control who he sleeps with, talk to your partner about birth control and what happens in case of an accident. He can have a bisectimy it he never wants kids. Also they are coming out with a male pill that would give men more control over thier fertility. Or pratice abstinance.

 

Converesly. If a man wants a child he is free to find a partner who shares his desire.

 

 

Oh sheesh Hotgurl! That's like saying women have rights over their eggs, etc. It's a good point and it's true, but the point is moot. It's not really pertinent to the argument at hand. This discussion is about rights and responsibilities after the fact, and there is plenty of current law to prove it's needed sometimes. Using your line of logic here, child support law is completely unnecessary because the need for it is completely preventable.

[hotgurl]

Well that is all well and good but some women such as the married one I mentioned swore to her H that she was on the pill.... she flushed the pills.

 

So there was a choice as to what method to use between the couple..... the pill. She lied. I know because this is my X's sister who did this. She admits to it.

 

So now he is stuck in a shakey marriage and now there is a child he did not want.

 

Do you think she would have done this knowing that the man could sign off on his parental rights and not have to support the child..... I don't think she would have.

 

At least allow the man that right. More so if the woman is caught in a out right lie.

 

Many women do use the I am pregnant thing as a trap......hell for that matter just lie about it even.

 

It is shameful that they can destroy a mans life through lies without ever facing the consquences of doing so. And get a monthly check for doing it.

 

 

In the case of trickery I don't believe the man should be held responsible. It would be hard to prove because a lot of guys who have gotten women pregnant through recklessness or laziness would try to get out of thier responsibilities.

 

A lot of men are passive in the BC matter. they assume the woman takes care of it. Or don't pay attention case in point would be another poster's hubby. She said I am not on BC. He came inside her and was shocked and outraged to find out dhe was pregnant. Like well WTF did you expect.

 

Ultimatly men need to take responsibility to prevent pregnancy. If he didn't wrap it and got an STD he would just have to live with the consequences of his action. Why should pregnancy be any different.

[Great Gazoo]

I think it would be wise if there was a law that a man could sign off his rights to a child with in a certain time frame if he does not want to be a father. Just like the woman has the right not to want a child the man should have the option also. There is no way you can go the other way and try and force a woman to have a child if she does not want it, impossible. The reason I say a father should be able to sign off is then he has no right to visit or have any say how the child is raised. I think this would be alot easier for the child instead of being used between too people who probably hate each others guts or being used to marry a guy. Also even if the law right now says that the father must pay child support the odds of some fathers paying is slim at best. I think that the man signing off atleast gives the woman a piece of mind knowing that he will never have any claim to the child and she knows what her options are. Like counting on family and friends to help and getting government aid instead of surprises that the man isn't giving her a dime and jumps state. Just a idea, good thread though.

[RecordProducer]

I would also like to add that men do have rights. They have rights over thier sperm.

But they are desperately trying to pass those rights onto every woman they meet... prettier than a chimp!

[indigostrings]

It's questions like these that make me happy I am not a man. Men have so little control over their fertility that it's a disgrace. The man SHOULD have an EQUAL say.

 

It's not the man's fault the woman has to carry the baby. I'm also sick of that "it's her body" BS. 9 months is hardly a life sentence. If you want to get really technical, by the time a woman realizes she is pregnant she is already 5-6 weeks along. That means the "burden" of pregnancy really only lasts 34-35 weeks, or 7.5 months. Not 9.

 

By the way, I am currently 8 months pregnant and my views have not changed

[LittleLady]

It is somewhat of a conundrum. I know what you're saying & I sort of agree with you, but at the end of the day it is the woman's body. What is the alternative? Forcing a woman to give birth to a child that she has already decided she wants to abort? How the hell would anybody police such a thing? Just not possible.

 

Not too long ago there was a case here about a married couple who had embryos frozen. Then they got divorced. Then she discovers that she has ovarian cancer & is now infertile. Except there are frozen embryos and she has womb, so she can carry to term, but only with her ex-husband's permission. They are, after all, embryos fertislised with his sperm. There is no legal recourse for him to divorce himself from his parental responsibility if he gives her the OK to have those embryos. Even is she says she will never ask him for child support, after she has the baby she can still sue for it & will get it. He refuses his permission and she fights her way through successive courts to have access to those embryos. It was quite a controversial case here with many divided opinions.

 

 

SO in other words the woman got her way.

I don't agree with that at all and really cannot believe that she was allowed that!

 

I'm sorry, but the whole "my body" crap does not cross many boundaries but the fertility and abortion issue so i consider it ridiculous.

 

Why not argue the "my body" slogan for prostitution or drug use rights??

Just a way to masculinize women and demasculinize the men. Women wanted to be the ones making the money etc. They felt ashamed of their reproductive nature and took action.

I think the whole thing is not even feminism. How can feminism be treating your body in this way and going against everything nature intended it to do?

And the men these days aren't even men anymore. They are selfish college dweebs who couldn't defend their family if life depended on it.

And then some of these men try to get out of child support and blame the girl for getting pregnant when they never even bothered to use a condom! Hello? Anyone home? Does he trust strangers with his life too? IS he going to file a lawsuit when he gets an std just because he believed a woman when she said she was std-free?? Use a condom if you dont want a child... but filing a lawsuit just makes you look like a weak sissy azz sleazeball! And your child will one day hate you for it if you ever decide you actually want contact!

 

My opinion is not up for debate. Just a rant and I don't care to offend anyone.

Just think of it as humorous if you disagree. Thank you.

[hopeto]

you know I am someone who is against abortion anyway. this womans body stuff is crap!!!!! YES I AM A WOMAN!!!!!! first of all it is a very touchy subject!! speaking from experience of not being able to have children. I have gone through infertility, years of it. on top of that I have had three misscarrages one on which alomost killed me. I longed to be a mother!!!! in the cases of babies concived of phiscal rape or the baby mentaly deformed etc is on the tidering side of things though. Fathers should have a right!!!!!! for those that just become pregnant and decide well I dont want this baby or I cant afford it or I am not ready etc....

 

THE QUESTION IS WHITH A SIMPLE ANSWER.......dont be doing anything that will cause you to become pregnant. we all know where babies come from!!!!! it sure is not the stork!! if you are having the sex and fun in making the baby then either A. you need to be on something, along with the partner or B. if you get pregnant just by looking at the private parts of you mate then you need to not have sex!!!!! the baby is not an object!!!!! it is a human being that did not ask to be planted. it is a baby when first concived,brain waves are forming and heart is beating. I belive that if a woman truly sat down and saw what happens during an abortion they would educate themselves on substaining from sex untill they are ready for a child.

 

I think that it sould be as much right as the father as the mother. if she can carry and give birth to a child that is unwanted by the father and get him for everything he has when the child is born and his reaction is I dont want it then why should she have the right to have it and charge him for it. you see it goes both ways. just because she carries the baby for nine months should make no difference!!! maybe there should be some law that states that if the mother does not want the child and the father does then she gets pardoned for no child support when the child is born and because she she has to carry it then if the father wanted it that badly be compinsated for the 9 mths she has to carry it.in the other hand if you do not want a child then dont have sex, PLAIN......AND VERY SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just think of all the babies that were aborted. I am a good person and would love to have a baby and after 14 to 15 years of longing for a baby I could have been a mother.

 

I dont want to hear about the I will be always wondering how the baby is or where it is at or if it is having a good life etc. so you choose to say I hate myself for killing my child and have just as bad mind problems as if you would have just went ahead and had it. in the case of the women who just have no remorse and think of it as o well it happened again and I will pay the 200 or to just get out of it then you my dear should be fixed!!!!!!! I cant afford the thousands of dollars they ask for adoption but I will tell you this.

 

I can give it a loving home, one where there will be love,unconditional a home that is stable a good school with clothes that are in fab as they call it, or what ever it needs mental or physcial . etc... so just think all those babies that have been killed could have gone to loving parents who can afford the child but dont have 35000.00 in the account to just say hey lets adopt a child. that is the least I found other than a christian org that is 14000.00.

 

as far as rape victims I am one of them and if I were to have gotten pregnant I would have gave it up for adoption because I was young when this happened to me. I would not have killed it!! as far as the baby with the defects you know the doctors are wrong alot of the times....alot....I have a friend that she was told her middle child was deformed, going to be mental retarted and have the child age of no more than 3 for its whole life. well he is now 14 and not a thing wrong with him. not only one doctor but three!!! they took fluid for the sack and gave a dig. from that. like I said he is 14 and is healthy!!!!!(except he is a male and going through the butt head stage).

 

I think the fathers should have a say just like the mothers so when the fathers dont want the child!!!!!! so my suggestion to you is to get a letter with as many as people to sign and take it to someone high up in the congress. it it all boils down to its my body I do with it as I please then you really need to do with it the right thing and keep your a** safe from getting preg. I know that the teen issue is that she is too young well I tell ya what if she was talked to and know half the time where she was at and was and had rules then this probly would not have occured.

 

and as far as the ones that are raised right and still gets pregnant then I certainly dont think it is a parents right to make her have an abortion but counsel her on adoption because my best friend to this day (age 33) got pregnant and she was not inforced with the proper rules or tought that this is what will happen but when it did was forced to have an abortion and now still to this day has to see a srink. not just your body or choice but a human life that has one as well, except cannot speak yet.

[hopeto]

yea a condom. Both parties made the child but unltimately it's the woman choice not only because it's her body but she bears most of the resposibility.

 

There are many guys who run off on a pregnant woman and she's left holding the bag.

 

first of all then she needed to know what kind of man she was having sex with!!!! if he's shady why give it up.!! and the ones who you think are not shady and have been with for years and then jets when you tell him you are pregnant then why was there no protection???? or why was children not discused??? women left holding the bag is an excuse in my book!!!! if you get pregnant you knew the actions could result in it when you were having the sex so why not protect yourself or I KNOW, DONT HAVE SEX!!!!!

[hopeto]

Can existing fetuses be surrogated? If the mother won't carry the baby to term, might another woman?

 

If that is the case then women with tubal preg. like myself that longed to have a baby and saw the baby's heart beat on the ultrasound would have had it removed and placed in the proper place!! not have to go through a sugural procedure to have the fetus removed, in which is so heart renching!!!!

[hopeto]

You can't force a woman to carry a child through pregnancy and give birth any more than you can force a woman to abort a child. You can't just take control of a woman's body for breeding purposes just because you want to be a father.

 

If a man or woman wants to be a parent, s/he should make that clear before having sex with someone, and should find someone to have sex with who wants to be a parent. If a man or woman is opposed to abortion, that is also something s/he should make clear to all partners before having sex. If you don't have those conversations and agree, then you can't be all upset later.

 

BREEDING PURPOSES:o is that what it is called? you know that is so retarted!!!! first of all you know what can happen when you are having sex..... if she does not want a child then dont get pregnant. it does not just happen you know.

[hopeto]

Well I got to wonder if so many women would engage in sex knowing that a man had an option to legally bail if a pregnancy occured and he could actually opt out by signing off on rights. In most cases it is up to the woman to allow sex.

(rape aside). So if she knows up front she could be stuck with a kid and he could just walk away. Maybe more women would just say NO?

 

You can say it is both their responsibility to make sure pregnancy does not happen..... but I really think the man trap sits in the back of many womens minds..(few are willing to admit it tho)... once his pants come off she has him by the balls no matter what.

 

YEAAAAA you get'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am with ya!!

[hopeto]

How fair is this to the child? He does have a right (and responsibility)...to wear a condom. He gives up his choice when he doesn't.

 

you know your right so should she!!!!!! she sould give the right up when she has done the sex thing and not having protection!!!!!

[hotgurl]

was hopeto you're super angry. This thread was not about whether abortion is ok or not. Is was about whether fathers had any say in whether the woman should abort or keep the baby. Or give the kid up for adoption.

[Buttaflyy]

BREEDING PURPOSES:o is that what it is called? you know that is so retarted!!!! first of all you know what can happen when you are having sex..... if she does not want a child then dont get pregnant. it does not just happen you know.

 

I think you missed the point of the thread. Sorry you've gone through what you've gone through though.

[hopeto]

was hopeto you're super angry. This thread was not about whether abortion is ok or not. Is was about whether fathers had any say in whether the woman should abort or keep the baby. Or give the kid up for adoption.

 

no I am not angry...... if you read my post you will see that it is all about what was posted in the start just a little added. not mad in the least just think its a load of crap. the key is that I think that the fathers dont get near what they should because of the its my body thing. and if the woman did not want a child then she should have taken procaution that this would not have occured. I am not speaking for the men thatt have jetted but if you look at it there are just as many women that have left there kids as well. my auncle is prof of that he has his two boys because the mother decided to beat the baby when he was just an infant and she was to into her drugs.