Not guilty--lied and feeling guilty for lying. (LONG POST)

[basscatcher]

Why does anyone get involved with someone?

Why do people get married?

We do we have a desire to have a mate?

 

I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life?

I don't want to die alone?

I want a partner to share our lives together and share in the struggles of it.

I like companionship. I enjoy company. I prefer it to be my SO.

I'm sick and tired of being alone and lonely.. I want a partner not anther man to take care of like a child.

[hotgurl]

Why does anyone get involved with someone?

Why do people get married?

We do we have a desire to have a mate?

 

I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life?

I don't want to die alone?

I want a partner to share our lives together and share in the struggles of it.

I like companionship. I enjoy company. I prefer it to be my SO.

I'm sick and tired of being alone and lonely.. I want a partner not anther man to take care of like a child.

 

most people want this. There is nothing wrong with wanting it but there is a difference between a want and need.

 

You seems to really need it. Sure if I never had a partner I might be sad and lonely sometimes but my world wouldn't end.

 

I have friends and fun and a full life. I don't need to have a guy to validate myself.

 

Would I like a SO sure yes, but my world wouldn't end if I didn't find one.

 

Also guys can take advantage of this mindset and I am sure it is contributing to your relationship problems. It's like the women who get to a certain age and freak if they aren't married and then have several bad relationships in a desperate searchf or a husband.

 

take a step back relax realize your beautiful and complete by yourself and the guy will follow.

[basscatcher]

most people want this. There is nothing wrong with wanting it but there is a difference between a want and need.

 

You seems to really need it. Sure if I never had a partner I might be sad and lonely sometimes but my world wouldn't end.

 

I have friends and fun and a full life. I don't need to have a guy to validate myself.

 

Would I like a SO sure yes, but my world wouldn't end if I didn't find one.

 

Also guys can take advantage of this mindset and I am sure it is contributing to your relationship problems. It's like the women who get to a certain age and freak if they aren't married and then have several bad relationships in a desperate searchf or a husband.

 

take a step back relax realize your beautiful and complete by yourself and the guy will follow.

 

I have a full life.. I have my friends whom I go out with and we have a blast. (They are city girls. I am a country girl pretty much a country girl or a man would appreciate my interests.)

I have my son whom I have to take care of and am responsible for.

I have a fulltime job.

I am involved with RCIA at church which takes up pretty much 2 days of my week.

I am the caretaker of my apt bldg so that is another responsiblity to keep me busy.

I also have to manage my own life-apt, bills, car, etc etc..

 

When I meet a guy I get nervous because I am on guard they will turn out to be a complete jerk like most of them. I haven't really been in many SERIOUS relationships. Most of the men I've met are a date or two and thats it. A few lingered a 1-3 months because of a lack of time getting to know one another or quality time together..

 

I am sick of being disappointed mostly. I am open to someone walking in my life if I chose to allow him to enter but the more times I get disappointed the harder it is for me to be open minded.

[blind_otter]

What I think is this -- it's normal to want those things. But it seems to me like, half the relationship goes on inside your head....so you have these feelings, and you go with them, and through your whole heart and head into a relationship -- before you really should.

 

I've seen the threads (one of which you started) on having a relationship be serious fast. I sure do think it can happen. But those of us who have ISSUES cannot allow ourselves to relax into that. I think. You have to protect yourself more.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I know you are asking for advice about Charlie, but I have to say about your "alphamale friend" - - - He is no friend to you. He knows exactly what's going on with you, what you are missing from your relationship with Charlie, what exact issue makes you vulnerable (the lack of touch and affection) and then proceeds to give you touch and affection.

 

I am really afraid that he is manipulating you. You talk about him like he is some guru. If he really really knew what was good for you and put your needs first he wouldn't have put you in this position where you have to do breathing exercises to avoid sex.

 

He is not self less in his decision to help you.

 

Afraid I must agree!

 

I raised an eyebrow when you first started mentioning this "alpha male" friend, myself. Something about the way he also criticizes you … wants you to change … and now (Just like Charlie) wants an intimate relationship with you absent any kind of commitment or real emotional involvement.

 

Same game, just slightly different strategies.

 

Pada, it's almost scary how much trust you put into people. You seem so wide-open, vulnerable and easily manipulated by all the wrong kinds of guys.

 

Why not wait for someone to come along who loves and accepts you just the way you are?

 

This is why it's dangerous to seek so much external validation. It's great that you believe your ex/friend is just trying to help but it's also important to remember that you have no idea what's really going on in his head.

 

Again, I agree!!

[alphamale]

Same game, just slightly different strategies.

no, same game....different men.

[EnigmaXOXO]

no, same game....different men.

 

You're right, Alpha!

 

… And notice how both these men begin to step up their "game" (and/or pursuit) when Pada suddenly backs away and finally presents them with some sort of a challenge for the first time.

[alphamale]

… And notice how both these men begin to step up their "game" (and/or pursuit) when Pada suddenly backs away and finally presents them with some sort of a challenge for the first time.

agreed e-xoxo.....now where is PADA today?? I feel like virtually flogging her over the internet

[basscatcher]

agreed e-xoxo.....now where is PADA today?? I feel like virtually flogging her over the internet

 

 

:p :p

[basscatcher]

A lot going on.

 

I'm processing..

 

Had my talk with Charlie last night..

 

Been processing...

 

Am processing...

[blind_otter]

A lot going on.

 

I'm processing..

 

Had my talk with Charlie last night..

 

Been processing...

 

Am processing...

 

Hugs..........

[alphamale]

Been processing...

 

Am processing...

WTF does this mean? That you're composing one of your humongous 10,000 word posts again? Yeah, i guess it must take some time to type those up

[basscatcher]

Hugs..........

 

Thank you..

 

Lots of drama.. Lots of talk... Lots of openess.. Lots of info...Lots of emotions... Lots of feelings...

 

I grew Balls and lost my lilly last night.... Almost had him crying.. Tears welled up in his eyes.. He was like a little boy and afraid...

 

I noticed changes in him before we even began to talk.. Possitive ones..

 

Time will tell..

Time will tell..

 

As for 'alpha male' friend. He has always been around in my life this past year.. He is never really far away.. I understand he is a man.. I understand he has sexual attraction towards me.. I also know he is a friend in the sense he has my good interest at heart.. He is a good man and helps people. NOT just me.. He does not blind me. I am fond of him and attracted to him but I know he and I are not compatable in relationship material so we keep it as friends... Boundries...

[Art_Critic]

Lots of drama.. Lots of talk...

 

No shiot.. I'm not surprised..

 

By time will tell are saying that you have finally beaten him into the type of guy you are looking for ?

Or are you waiting for him to say/do something ?

[basscatcher]

WTF does this mean? That you're composing one of your humongous 10,000 word posts again? Yeah, i guess it must take some time to type those up

 

 

bla bla bla

[whichwayisup]

WTF does this mean? That you're composing one of your humongous 10,000 word posts again? Yeah, i guess it must take some time to type those up

 

That was mean, but it is funny how you word it alpha.

 

Pada, vent as much and put down as much as you need to. Plus, if you do so, that means you'll KNOW alpha will be reading EVERY word of it too. Happy or not, he'll read it!

[alphamale]

Pada, vent as much and put down as much as you need to. Plus, if you do so, that means you'll KNOW alpha will be reading EVERY word of it too. Happy or not, he'll read it!

Well, um....see. I just wish PADA would summarize a bit more. You know? Less detail and more getting to the point. I like to read her posts but sometimes they are waaaay too long

[basscatcher]

No shiot.. I'm not surprised..

 

By time will tell are saying that you have finally beaten him into the type of guy you are looking for ?

Or are you waiting for him to say/do something ?

 

No I didn't beat him down but I did knock the block of his shoulder.

 

I don't take shyt from men like I use too. You poke at me long enough and I will push, maybe shove, back.

 

I layed it out there. I gave him 3 very easy pages of layed out in a short one line question with a blank in it. then listed words under it to fill in the blank.

All this information was directed about me with 'I' statements so as to not directly blame him. I listed my negatives that have been coming out in me to show him that I am not infallable either.

 

He shared with me the events of his life that started his "space time'.

He faced his Xgf for the first time since their breakup.. He didn't have a choice. He was put in a situation that he could not live with if he didn't talk to her. (she was on a suicide path..and was becoming more and more crazy..With me on him and then my gf jumped on him and his Xgf acting up unrashionally, he just finished 4 days of heavy snow removal and was exhausted, his truck needed major repairs, his kids went on spring break for a week and he had them 3 weekends in a row.

 

He was overwhelmed, over stressed, overly confused, exhausted and needed down time where he could get it from whom he could get it from..

 

Overload...

 

Our talk last night was good. He has time to evaluate it all.

He expressed himself to me last night in words and actions. Before I started talking to him and even more once he felt the threat of losing me.

 

Time will tell. I'm in no hurry so he has some time to figure things out.

[basscatcher]

Well, um....see. I just wish PADA would summarize a bit more. You know? Less detail and more getting to the point. I like to read her posts but sometimes they are waaaay too long

 

Yep,, You have to learn to accept me this way or not.. I am a detail oriented person.. You should never be left standing in the wind with no shelter around me.. I will give you all the instructions and guidance you need with complete detail.

 

My dad and brother are more expressive then I am. They are folk story tellers... Damn good and funny... Told from their own life experiences. I would love to record them when they start talking. OMG... It's a rare gift. My grandfather had storytelling skills also. Vivid details, wonderful imagination. great exaggeration.. I don't have that ability.. I too frickin honest. Gawd that sucks.

[alphamale]

Time will tell. I'm in no hurry so he has some time to figure things out.

get to the good stuff woman!!! was there any sexual activity?

[whichwayisup]

Well, um....see. I just wish PADA would summarize a bit more. You know? Less detail and more getting to the point. I like to read her posts but sometimes they are waaaay too long

 

That is the beauty of LS! Post as much as you want. Partially ofcourse is getting advice, but some of the time it's just good to pour it ALL out. Things make more sense when writing it down. You're just a typical male, not wanting to read it all. You men just want it short sweet and to the point! Nice and easy, eh.

[basscatcher]

Men complain that women bitch and complain to much. When you look deeper into what they do they are the same.

 

Alpha can complain all he wants about how long my posts are.. But he loves the drama and suspense in it all. He feeds off it..

 

He must get really bored sitting behind his desk with no woman under it to entertain him..

 

Look at how he digs for more with his comment type questions....

 

Alpha you are funny...

 

I would dare to bet that Alpha reads almost every word......

[Mz. Pixie]

So, what was the outcome?? DId he come out and say he didn't want to lose you or that he wanted to be with you??

 

Give us some concrete details here and not vague.

[basscatcher]

So, what was the outcome?? DId he come out and say he didn't want to lose you or that he wanted to be with you??

 

Give us some concrete details here and not vague.

 

Ok. Let me see what I can put together. I'm still processing everything and still waiting for more info next time I see him.

 

I can only go by what I witnessed, experienced and heard from him.

I use a lot of intuition when dealing with people so what I sense or pick up from him might not sit well with some people because its not CONCRETE proof. I know time will tell whether things are salvagable or not with him and I.

*****

I went to his place. He had me park in the underground parking as usual. When I got out of the car he was smiling and approached me but hesitated to complete a hug and a kiss. I wasn't exactly showing through body language I was receptive to his. He didn't complete his greeting. I kind of turned my body sideways to him which showed a lack of open reception. (I could feel some anger in me). He opened the door for me to go up the stairs and he hesitated like he was going to initiate a hug and a kiss again but I walked by without looking at him. He said 'Your going to be bitchy huh?", lightheartedly. (note: charlie normally has a playful/bubbly/teasing tone of voice with a smile on his face when saying things like I'm being bitchy.) All I said was "Well, what do you expect."

 

We got up into his place and I sat at the table and took out a few papers that I had written up and printed "I am" 'I feel" "I am becoming" statements. I asked him to read them. He did with patience. He did read them. I watched him scan over it then start back at the beginning and read through them. Once he was done I asked him what he thought. He said 'Obviously, you are not happy." He shifted in his chair a lot.

I told him I don't want to lecture him or blame him. I stated that I could have done a 'blame list' of attacking him but that wouldn't have been appropriate. He laughed and stated "Gee, thanks".

 

I pulled out my journaling in my tablet that I keep along side my bed and I showed him some poetry that I wrote in my touchy/feely moments thinking about him before I went to bed. He hesitated and commented with a sarcastic tone."Geez". I told him that they were possitve and I think he needs to read my inner most feelings for him in the poetry. So he reluctantly took the tablet and as he began to read his facial expressions softened and he began to smile. I could tell the words he read warmed him and helped him to feel more comfortable with our meeting.

 

He finished reading and he stared me in the eyes over the table in silence. His facial muscles were relaxed and I could SEE love in his eyes for me. His gaze was more intense then mine was. Which is unusual.. I had to look away. He got up and he came over to me and picked me up out of the chair and he hugged me so firmly and closely. He gently rocked me back and forth in little motions and snuggled his face into my neck and hair. He actually moved my hair gently from the front of my shoulder. (he never touches my hair so this was an impact on me). He kissed me-I hesitated-and he told me that he missed me, I looked at him with doubt from the corner of my eye and he repeated he really missed me and he hugged me more. He looked again into my eyes and proceeded to kiss me.

 

We sat back down at the table and I asked him to please think about these things that he read. I told him I don't want to sit her and charge accusations at him. I told him I went through hell the last two weeks and I finally came down to focusing on myself and my feelings instead of blaming him. I had to take responsiblity for being in this relationship and I allowed myself to walk into these feelings. I told him he can take what he reads and he can find the cause of why I am feeling and becoming those things I listed. He picked up the pages and looked them over again.

 

I requested him to hold onto those pages and review them once in awhile. I asked him to figure out if we can work through these things one-bit-at-a-time. I told him he doesnt' need to give me everything all at once or else. I asked him if he could just take one bit at a time and chew on it for awhile before he moves onto another. I told him to find a pace he is comfortable with, with the rule that he doesn't make it so small I can't recognize his attempts. (His body language was relaxed and he wasn't sarcastic with me. He wasn't making remarks or comments. He was looking at me, listening to me and I believe he understood everything. I didn't want to pressure him to much. I kept the visit as light and easy as possible making sure I didn't say or do anything to challenge him to become defensive.)

 

He got up and paced a bit. I lit a smoke (had 4 of them in 2 1/2 hours) and he came over to me hugged me again and asked if we could go out and get something to eat. So we left and got food. We talked off and on about the situation. After he got two beers in him I asked him if he talked to Kim his Xgf while we were apart and he got uncomfortable and said yes hesitantly. He is so afraid I will rip him apart and not be understanding. He totally under estimates me and always has from the beginning. He told me that I put on a little too much pressure on him the last weekend we went out and my gf jumped all over him that night too, then the next day Kim called him 50+ times leaving crazy VM on his cell. Monday she continued and they became crazier and she was crying and talking strangely and threatening to drive her car off the bridge. He knows her well. As I said before he was with her for 3 years. He said she was falling off the deep end. So he felt cornered and had to call her to get her to calm down.

 

I listened to him as he was telling me this. He was obviously very very very uncomfortable with sharing this information but he did. If I wouldn't have asked him if he talked to her he may not have told me.

 

I don't like this part of him. He holds back info I feel that he should be sharing with me BEFORE he does anything. I would have had more respect for him if he would have called me and told me he was going to call her BEFORE he did. Because of this I am beginning to feel trust slipping. I feel he is keeping secrets from me that I deserve to know out of respect for relationship. I may not have liked the fact he was gong to call her but I have always been aware that he would eventually need contact with her for continued closure. I have expressed to him many many many times that I know he would need contact with her eventually so he knew I was expecting it. Why did he feel the need to hide it from me??

Yes, obviously I wouldn't like the idea of my bf meeting up with his xgf but I also understood that he didnt' have closure time, healing time and grief time between her and I.

 

By holding back truth he is hurting my ability to trust him.

 

I asked him as he babbled about her being a psycho if he seen her. He really got uncomfortable. He was about ready to jump out of his skin. I looked at him with fear and sadness because I was afraid he would say Yes and he did. I could feel tension welling up in me and I accussed him of having her up in his place and he seemed to hesitate and then he said 'no' calmly and said they meet in a public place at a restuarant and talked. I asked him if he hugged her and he shifted uncomfortably and said 'yes' then he charged at me 'I didn't f*** her if that is what you are thinking." I asked if he kissed her and he stood solid and said 'NO, I did not kiss her I only hugged her' So I asked him if he resolved anything that he needed to and he said 'no'. I commented that 'she will continue to be a thorn in my side and there is still more closure coming'. He said he didn't think so and he hadn't heard from her in over a week. He started to defend her actions by saying she has a bf and that he is a 'alpha male' type. I stopped him and said 'stop making excuses and covering up s***. She apparently isn't fullfilled with him or she wouldn't be reaching out to you. He cannot fill the void you left in her life. She is still dependant on you."

 

He began to get defensive and push on me more that she is a nut case and that she is crazy. He is always able to say she is a nut case and crazy but he never says that he doesn't want her or desire her.. He does admit that he cares deeply for her and he has a soft spot for her. (That sounds like he still has a desire for her. which could be because he is still in the process of closure. The lingering feelings but no real driven desire to connect on a relationship level again.)

 

So I stopped talking and just sat there and he kept lookig at me. He put his arm around me and told me not to worry. He looked me in the eyes A LOT which is something he didn't do before he 'took his space'. He kissed me sweetly several times while sitting in the lounge. (Its a restuarant with a bar and small dance club in it. Nice establishment--middle class).

He rubbed my back, stood really close to me, was flirty with me and looked me in the eyes a lot.

 

When I wanted to leave I had a hard time getting him to. I was really tired and he was reluctant to respect my request to leave. (This is where things started to go really down hill). I finally got him to leave and I drove his truck because he has a few beers in him and I didn't have any alcohol. When we got to his place I headed for my car to go home. I opened the door and he came over to me and asked me to come up with him for awhile. I said no because I was really really tired, I was going on 4 1/2 hours of sleep, it was already 11 pm and I had to be up for work at 5:40 am. I had a 20 minute drive ahead of me.

 

He didn't sympathize with me again and began to put his arm around me and pull me to go up with him. # times I ducked out of his arm and said no and each time I got more harsh. I eventually shoved him away from me really hard. I thought he was going to land on his ass. He grabbed my arm and pulled me to come with him and I snapped my arm out of his hand and shoved him away again. I glared at him with hate in my eyes. He could see it. I verbally ripped into him.

I told him with voice raised and sternly "Don't you ever f***en pull on me like this again. Don't you ever push me again. I have been treated like a doormat in my past and I won't allow you or any man to push me around anymore. I wont allow you or anyone to make me do things I don't want to do. I don't like the way you are being. I hate the way you are being. You are a a**h***. You have never treated me this way before. You have totally disrespected me tonight and I'm not going to put up with it. I am going home. You are acting like a complete a**h*** and I don't like you right now." I got into my car and was about to shut the door and he stopped it.

 

I glared at him and he just stood there looking at me like a child. He was humble and set back in his place. I was so damn angry with him. As I glared at him with a lot of hate in my eyes I seen he was really trying to figure out what he should do. He obviously didn't want me to leave in this manner. He made physical gestures to touch me but he pulled back because I wasn't receptive to his approach. I asked him to let me go and he held the door. I looked him in the eyes and I could see the tears filling up. He told me no woman has ever talked to him the way I do. I reminded him, 'I am ME there is no one like me and I'm not to take your s*** or anyone else s*** for very long.' he looked at me with those tear filled blue eyes and sadness on his face and stood there in silence.

 

He knew he did wrong to me. I said NO and I ment it. Maybe he has never had a women stand up to him and he has always pursuaded them I don't know. He was playful when he was pulling on me-smiling, chuckling but his strength and persistance offended me to the max and I flipped on him.. I am a women who has suffered abuse from men. I am reactive to aggression and will fight back like a angry lion. He hit that nerve of self defense. He was shocked into complacency.

 

He eventually leaned into my car and tried to hug me, He gently pulled my hair away from my face and kissed my cheek. He put his cheek up next to mine and then his forhead to mine. He stepped back and looked at me and touched my bottom lip with his finger gently. He came into my car again and hugged me and he said 'I really like you.'. he sounded like he about to cry. He was hurting because he knows his actions pushed me away. He has never felt or seen me pull away from him as much as I did that evening. I believe he was feeling scared and he may have realized that he has feelings for me more then he realized. He has taken advantage of me and expected me to always be there for him and accept him. He has met much resistance from me this week. He is feeling it and he is waking up to the fact that he is losing me.

 

He was so humbled, careful, gentle, his eyes full of tears, his face was straight and somber. I pushed him away from my car, I got out and I hugged him. He held me so damn tight I thought he was going to squeeze the breath out of me.

 

I told him to never ever treat me like that again because I wont accept it. He said he was sorry. He asked me to call him when I got home. I said I would but I was sure he would be asleep by the time I did it. (and he was.)

 

I believe he found a very hard lesson with me that night. If he crosses it again he is done for good because I won't be man-handled for long and I will retort.. I believe we all make mistakes and deserve second chances. In 6 months he has never showed agression.

He has never pushed me (pulled me physically) into anything I didn't want to do. He knows I was ready to end out relationship. He was obviously scared of losing me and was hurting.

Emotions have been running high and it is easy to be reactive and aggressive with this kind of pressures built up in us.

 

So I will forgive his stupidity and rude treatment this time but if he does it again I am gone. For CERTAIN..

 

He has time to figure out if he can learn to give me little by little love and affection as well as possitive/quality attention. He has to start communicating with me also. I will give him some time to do these things. If he doesnt show effort it will be over. I made my statements to him. I posed my requests. I have stood my ground with him and put him in his place.

 

I obviously seen/witnessed his feelings for the first time in the middle of all this drama.

 

If drama is the only way to get him to express himself I will not live with it. He has to start in bite's on a healthy normal level.

 

In those papers I typed up for him t review and analyze I also found a great explaination of what a healthy relationshp entails and gave that to him as well. He took a long, slow read to it. I think it might be setting some wheels in motion in him. He can either take all this and grow from it or he can stay in his hole. If he is willing to grow I will give him the chance if he doesn't then I am moving along without him.

 

So this is what has happened as best I can give. We aren't broke up. But the guard is up. Caution is in the wind. He has choices and steps to start making/taking.

 

only time will tell.

[basscatcher]

I brought up the fact I came over to his place with the intention to end our relationship and he said that is what I needed to do then I have to do it. He was looking at the floor and very sober mannered.

 

I told him it will depend on how the conversation goes. I told him I even brought the warrenty papers and box for the ring to give to him and he said 'NO, I don't want it back. You keep it, it is yours." I told him that I didn't want the one back I gave him because I gave it to him out of love and a gift for Valentines Day. He looked at me and said he would still always wear it because he really likes it. I smiled at him.

 

So whether or not he and I make things work out- he keeps his ring and I keep mine.