BlahBlahQueen Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Dinosaurs? From what I understand, (I'm not an authority mind you), Satan has rule of this Earth for a time, with no restraints on deception. It's even written in Scripture, don't ask me to look it up. Thanks, Moose, you made my evening. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks, Moose, you made my evening.Glad to help....when you can ask with the right, "Heart Attitude", I may invest my time in delivering you a much respected and deserved answer. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HotCaliGirl Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 Moose, I'm interested to know about your view on the dinasour/satan scenerio which sounds interesting. Is that something you have come to believe on your own, or as taught by someone or ... Maybe you can address your view also on the Grand Canyon, how the layers can date back, also how carbon-14 is used to date rocks and fossils back to thousands of years old, and other radioactive material like Uranium something (238 or ?) with a half life of 4.5 bil. years etc....if any of that ties in with your belief system. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Well, who knows I guess. they would rewrite history to say he isn't christian, when in fact there is evidence he was... Try looking a bit deeper than wikipedia before pronouncing was not a practicing Catholic as an adult, though in public discourses he continued to frequently claim he was a Christian He also put many priests and pastors in concentration camps. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Link to post Share on other sites
Author HotCaliGirl Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 I'll take ur word he wasn't a Christian. but what about the Christians who killed all the Native American Indians, Bosnians, Algerians, Vietnamese, Rwandans....the Crusaders...the list goes on as you know. So instead of putting a face to it, just in general to simplify things as I've tried, going down to the basics - one who kills going to heaven, one who doesn't going to hell...why is this justified. I am ok with an elementary explanation...i can't dumb down my question any further Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Moose, I'm interested to know about your view on the dinasour/satan scenerio which sounds interesting. Is that something you have come to believe on your own, or as taught by someone or ... I wish I had more time today to get into this. It is an interested subject for me. Most of what I believe was taught to me through time, but the rest is what I truly have come to believe on my own. In a nutt shell, Satan is allowed to influence man, or deceive man into his own thinking. As hard as it may be to believe, Satan uses any and all tools at his disposal to do this. Which includes dinosaur bones, science, theories, chemistry and the likes. Link to post Share on other sites
Author HotCaliGirl Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 I know what you mean, sometimes you need some time to respond to a more thought-provoking item or else it's not fun and feels like homework. I do appreciate your 'nutshell' explanation and think it's interesting moose... Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Try looking a bit deeper than wikipedia before pronouncing So should you. Hitler was a Christian. He distanecd himself from the Catholic Church later, but he was baptised, had Communion, etc. And yes, some priests were sent to concentration camps, but very few. most priests in Germany at that time stood behind Hitler, as anti-Semitism was everywhere. Why do you think that the Vatican helped many Nazis escape? Christians kill other Christians all the time, and they also persecute each other. To say that Hitler wasn't a Christian because he sent a few priests to concentration camps is nonsense. By the way, they weren't sent to camps because they were Christians, they were sent because they spoke out against the government. Lutherans were also sent to camps. He also put many priests and pastors in concentration camps. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... No, not many. Very, very few. I know this isn't a discussion about Hitler or Germany during the war, but you should really check your own facts before accusing others of not doing the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I wish I had more time today to get into this. It is an interested subject for me. Most of what I believe was taught to me through time, but the rest is what I truly have come to believe on my own. In a nutt shell, Satan is allowed to influence man, or deceive man into his own thinking. As hard as it may be to believe, Satan uses any and all tools at his disposal to do this. Which includes dinosaur bones, science, theories, chemistry and the likes. Wow, Satan uses science to deceive us? Well, for me at least, it worked. It was so evil of Satan to provide us with the vaccines we now enjoy, and the chemistry to create complex polymers for computer cases an the like, and alloys that allow us to make strong, lightweight vehicles--I could go on and on. Man, Satan sure is crafty. The dinosaur bones thing is a touch of genius, too. I am not trying to be mean, but this attitude illustrates my point about religion being evil perfectly. It causes people to be anti-intellectual, and anti-science. Science is our only hope in this world. Everything that you use every day--from paper towels to your car to you television to your computer--exists because of science. The exact same science that demonstrates that evolution is a facct, that we share a common ancestor with apes, that light travels at 186,000 miles per second. All of it. Why is it right in the areas that help you, or don't conflict with people's superstitions, but wrong when it does? Any and all arguments against science aren't arguments at all, either. Ask yourself this: Science, through testing, has determined that the Earth is AT LEAST 4.5 billion years old. Creationists assert that the Earth is 6,000 years old. How do they arrive at that number? A priest took the ages of all the characters in the Bible and counted backward. How did geologists determine the age of the Earth? By testing different isotopes found in meteors--as the Earth must be at least as old as anything found on it. And they got 4.5 billion years. From ten different test. At least ten. Which is more reliable? And, only one of them is scientific? Someone counting backward from characters in the Bible is on a par with potassium isochron dating? Puhleeeze. It would be funny if it weren't so dangerous---and sad. Moreover, Christians are very quick to point out instances when their beliefs are laughed at or belittled--but have no trouble whatsoever belittling the life's work of some of the greatest minds humanity has produced, and invalidating said life's work because of their superstitions. Not only that, they don't even give credit where it is due--as if all of the things that scientists work so hard to acheive is owed to them somehow. So, now the United States is lagging so far behind other Western nations in science we look like a bunch of retards. Why? Because teaching basic science offends some people's religion, and they fight tooth and nail to keep facts from being taught. Great. Thanks. I am not trying to be harsh, but such things really irk me, and erode away at my hope sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Moai, Why do you have to be this way? I never said that we should shun science and it's benefits, now did I? The way I look at it, there's nothing terrible using our intellegience to solve everyday problems, and make our lives easier. It only becomes wrong when we begin to be so naive to think we don't need God because we're so dang smart, we've figured out we came from sludge from the bottom of the ocean...... Man seems to think he can figure it all out on his own. That's simply not true. No man has ALL the answers...... Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 No man has ALL the answers...... Exactly, Moose. So rather than be humble and admit we just don't have all the answers yet, we attribute a magical cause to everything we can't understand. It stems from our desire for certainty and security. Remember that before we knew why the sun appeared to rise and set, we made up stories about Helios riding his flaming chariot across the sky. Religion will never die. It's just too perfect a system for filling voids in the human heart and mind. Most people lack the ability to fill them the right way, but the need is always there. So any religion will do the trick. Even our consumerist way of life is a religion and serves the same purpose, so most people who are perfectly content being nonreligious are nothing of the sort. They're getting the same fill-in-the-blanks effect from a slightly different source, rather than evolving as they ideally should. Link to post Share on other sites
Bogun Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Moose what evidence other than what some of the christians in your life have taught you, do you have for supporting your view about satan and dinosaur bones and the earth only being 6000 years old? The scientific evidence to counter this belief is, not surprisingly, huge. I'm not calling you an idiot, you might be a genious in your own way, but it does seem that the people who believe that the earth is 6000 years old are somewhat simple and lacking in a higher education. Its hard to imagine any professional scientist in any field believing that the earth is 6000 years old. Science does not claim to have all the answers, in fact the more experienced a scientist becomes, the more they will admit how little science actually knows about the universe. Science is a search for truth, it doesnt claim to be all knowing. Link to post Share on other sites
flavius Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 An intelligent discussion requires that the parties attempt to understand the alternate positions, then identify core objections to it. Not everybody gets persuaded in the process, but at least everybody gets smarter and smarter. A discussion in which nothing has any definition and every concept is a moving target is pretty much just a circle-jerk. So I'm going over to the sexuality forum where people discuss various points of view because they are interested in them. I might even start a thread on "Circle-Jerks." Flav Out! Link to post Share on other sites
converse02 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 6000 years ago, the earth was going throught the middle stone age. Anyone educated in history, geology, and anyone of the vast number subjects related to this would consider a 6000 year old earth silly. The Bible is most likely is made up, like all the hundreds and thousands of other myths and religions out there. What rational person would believe that snakes can talk, Noah fitting every known animal on an ark, or that witches exist and deserve to be killed? Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Circle Jerks! \m/ Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Moai, Why do you have to be this way? I never said that we should shun science and it's benefits, now did I? No, you just shun it when it bumps up against your superstitions. Which was my point. Science is science is science. The same science that makes this computer work is the same science that shows us that all life shares a common ancestor. It is all conducted the same way. The way I look at it, there's nothing terrible using our intellegience to solve everyday problems, and make our lives easier. Or understand the world around us. It only becomes wrong when we begin to be so naive to think we don't need God because we're so dang smart, we've figured out we came from sludge from the bottom of the ocean...... See? That's it right there. Science doesn't address whether we need god, whether there is a god or isn't one. Science has determined that the Genesis story is not factual. It probably wasn't intended to be, really, but that obviously doesn't mean anything to some. Centuries ago, the idea that the Earth revolved around the sun was heretical, and anti-God. Science has shown that the Earth revolves around the sun, and people still believe in God. Man seems to think he can figure it all out on his own. That's simply not true. No man has ALL the answers...... So far we have figured it all out on our own. And we continue to figure things out. We aren't anywhere close to figuring it ALL out, and we never will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, or that we don't know ANYTHING. I am sorry, again, for being so adamant, but if you look how far behind our children are in science when compared to other countries you'd be upset, too. I have a niece and a nephew, and I hate to think that bythe time they are my age they will be living in the equivalent of the Third World, depending on other nations for technology and medicine. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Most people lack the ability to fill them the right way, but the need is always there.And just what is the, "right way", in your opinion? Isn't that a little naive of you to think you'd know what the, "right way" is? What may be the right way for you, doesn't make it right for anyone else.They're getting the same fill-in-the-blanks effect from a slightly different source, rather than evolving as they ideally should.Evolve? What do you mean? Physically evolve? Intellectually evolve?Moose what evidence other than what some of the christians in your life have taught you, do you have for supporting your view about satan and dinosaur bones and the earth only being 6000 years old?First off, I never claimed the Earth is only 6000 years old. Just because I believe God created all, doesn't mean I know when He created it. My problem is, I'm not a Scholar, I don't take notes, I hide most of what I learn in my heart. So when it comes to who taught me what, or where I read this or that......I suck at referencing back to it.6000 years ago, the earth was going throught the middle stone age.How do you this for certain? Where you there to witness this? You're using what others have learned and witnessed for themselves. Just like I am when I read the Bible. The only thing that makes us different, is that you're placing your faith in man made knowledge, where I'm placing my, "blind", faith in God's words.No, you just shun it when it bumps up against your superstitions.Do you even know when you insult people, or are you doing this on purpose??? I don't appreciate you calling my Faith a Supersition. It only bumps, my FAITH, when man shows his arrogance in claiming he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that God's own words are false. As far as using science, I've told you before, I'm all for it. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is also dangerous. But for the most part, knowledge is wonderful!! If I had my way, we wouldn't be using fossil fuels in our cars, or burning coal for our electricity, a lot more of our money would go to research on cancers, and other, "incurable" diseases. Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 And just what is the, "right way", in your opinion? Isn't that a little naive of you to think you'd know what the, "right way" is? What may be the right way for you, doesn't make it right for anyone else.Evolve? What do you mean? Physically evolve? Intellectually evolve?First off, I never claimed the Earth is only 6000 years old. Just because I believe God created all, doesn't mean I know when He created it. Not all of your most recent post was to me, but some of it was, so forgive me if I step on anyone's toes. Creationism, which you suggested should be taught alongside evolution on another thread, asserts that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. That doesn't mean that God didn't create it all, but it does mean that Creationism is not correct. My problem is, I'm not a Scholar, I don't take notes, I hide most of what I learn in my heart. So when it comes to who taught me what, or where I read this or that......I suck at referencing back to it.How do you this for certain? Where you there to witness this? You're using what others have learned and witnessed for themselves. Just like I am when I read the Bible. The only thing that makes us different, is that you're placing your faith in man made knowledge, where I'm placing my, "blind", faith in God's words.Do you even know when you insult people, or are you doing this on purpose??? I don't appreciate you calling my Faith a Supersition. It only bumps, my FAITH, when man shows his arrogance in claiming he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that God's own words are false. I know these things for certain because I have seen the data for myself. It is published everywhere. Yes, trust is certainly part of it, but science is peer-reviewed. When somoeone publishes, it has already been through rigorous scrutiny, and then others in the field attack it from all sides in the attempt to falsify the findings. When they can't, it is accepted. I am sorry that you don't like me calling your faith a superstition. Your faith isn't so much, but the dogma surrounding it is. And if you don't agree with those superstitions, then the comment was not directed at you. How do you know that the Bible is God's own words? You don't. You believe that they are. And I know they are not literally true because they fly in the face of reason, and what I can see when I walk out of my house. Let's take the Flood. If that story is true, every species of animal from all over the planet managed to get to where Noah was. How long did it take sloths to get there? Noah had more animals on his boat than are in any modern zoo. The logisitcs of keeping a zoo going and all those animals alive, even with all of our technology, is very difficult. And we can create the conditions most of these animals need to survive, while Noah could not. Once the flood was over, how is it that all of these animals knew to go back to the places where their fossil ancestors are found? How did the fish survive? And after all of it was over, God created rainbows to show us that He wouldn't ever flood the whole world again. We now know that rainbows occur because of refraction. Does that mean that refraction did not happen before the flood? What were the properties of light before the flood if refraction was not occuring? As far as using science, I've told you before, I'm all for it. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is also dangerous. But for the most part, knowledge is wonderful!! Interesting. How can knowledge be dangerous? It can certainly be used for dangerous things, but otherwise knowledge is value-neutral. If I had my way, we wouldn't be using fossil fuels in our cars, or burning coal for our electricity, a lot more of our money would go to research on cancers, and other, "incurable" diseases. I agree. Interestingly, we are still burning coal as we are because people don't understand science! If they did, they would embrace nuclear power, which is cheap, limitless, and safe. Chernobyl was caused by technicians messing with the core, seeing how close they could get it to critical, and they melted it down. Also, Russian technology wasn't where it should have been. But I digress... I think that it was Galileo who said, "The bible tells you how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go." And he's right. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Creationism, which you suggested should be taught alongside evolution on another thread, asserts that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.Well, nowhere in the Bible does it give any indication how old the Earth actually is. Whether it's 6,000 years or 4.5 billion as you say it is. The point I'm trying to make is that you weren't there, I wasn't there, and we're relying on our little, (Extremely limited), minds to rationalize things we don't understand. All in all, it doesn't matter how old the Earth is, why even waste our energy trying to convince ourselves we're smart enough to nail it down? When sooner or later, we'll have full understanding of ALL things that concerns us when we meet our Maker. Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I don't appreciate you calling my Faith a Supersition. Now, Moose, calm down, I won't insult you in any way purposely, but I have to ask what it is exactly that separates "superstitions" from respectable religious notions. Because I've always held that superstitions are nothing but religious notions that have already been disproven. And religious notions are superstitions that have not yet been disproven. We always progress in favor of science and away from religion. No advancement in knowledge brings us closer to religion/superstition/whatever. Doesn't that tell you something? That as we discover more, we distance ourselves from necessary religious compensation? Again, don't take offense. I know I can be flippant at times, but I do respect you. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Now, Moose, calm down, I won't insult you in any way purposely, but I have to ask what it is exactly that separates "superstitions" from respectable religious notions.If you look at the definition of, "superstition": An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.Idolatry.Then look at the defintion of religion: Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.The life or condition of a person in a religious order.A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.(Definitions are from www.dictionary.com) There's nothing, irrational about my religion. Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 There's nothing, irrational about my religion. I would disagree wholeheartedly and emphatically, but that's just me. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I would disagree wholeheartedly and emphatically, but that's just me.Fine, that's your right. Just know you're insulting me when you do.... Link to post Share on other sites
BlahBlahQueen Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Fine, that's your right. Just know you're insulting me when you do.... Wait, I'm insulting you when I disagree with you? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Wait, I'm insulting you when I disagree with you?I don't mind if you disagree with me. A lot of people do. You said you respect me, but calling my religion a superstition negates that. That's what is insulting...... Link to post Share on other sites
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