Why did Jesus die for our sins?

[lindya]

You know, come to think of it, I don't think I could stomach spending an eternity around these kinds of people. Considering the guest list, it would seem more like Hell than Heaven to me.

 

Amen. No blasphemy intended.

 

This whole repenting thing: Perhaps Mr Thrawn, our resident afterlife expert, can advise me further on this. Let's say I'm standing at the fiery gates of hell watching a sadistically grinning demon waving a red hot pitchfork at me whilst up in the sky stern faced angels play a DVD of all the not so good things I've said/done in my life.

 

I'm busy crying, gibbering and snottering my apologies to everyone...watched with imperious amusement by all the rapists, murderers and assorted horrorf***s who became familiar with the bible during their prison sentences and are now safely ensconsed in heaven. The sight and smell of hell would, I'm sure, genuinely put the fear of God into me. I repent - so does that mean I get into heaven...or is it too late by then?

 

Let's say I do manage to cry, snivel and grovel my way into heaven. Can I assume that the wailing souls being tortured in hell were a bit more stiff upper lip about things, and refused to grovel and crawl like wounded animals? To put it bluntly, is getting into heaven all about throwing away your dignity and kissing the right arses?

 

If so, then our time on earth should equip us all very well for the experience.

[witabix]

......is getting into heaven all about throwing away your dignity and kissing the right arses?

 

If so, then our time on earth should equip us all very well for the experience.

 

Tossing the righteous salad in a dignified way for me.

[lindya]

Tossing the righteous salad in a dignified way for me.

 

I see you're already puckering up for the task...

[Mz. Pixie]

While the cowardly, selfish man who lived a wretched life may have no problem facing the 'Big Judge' and evading his due punishment by scapegoating the guy in the bloody crown of thorns, I would feel ashamed and embarrassed to do the same. I can just see it now…

 

"Ah, you know Big G … I didn't honor the Sabbath and go to church on Sundays, but your son already took the beating for me and three of those marks on his back have my name on them. Therefore, my sentence should be waived and I should be allowed to join the rest of the hypocrites, murders, thieves and adulterers up at that big Boom Boom Room in the sky."

 

 

I don't consider myself either cowardly or selfish or using Christ as a scapegoat for my sins.

 

This is the same God who designed the human body to be the most amazing thing. Think about it, our eyes are lubricated by blinking when it would destroy them to dry out, we automatically breathe to keep our bodies filled with the oxygen we need- I could go on and on. Who else but a marvelous Creator could do all of that??

 

The way that I believe is that God knows our heart. He knows who is sincere in their asking for salvation. He is able to discern the people who are asking just so that they can go out and sin- thinking it covered. Your heart must be true to be able to accept the gift accordingly and He is wise enough to figure that out.

 

The reason that people cannot understand is because they cannot fathom a God so loving that He would do this. We, as humans, cannot understand it. Because we only know how we believe with our hearts- that someone of capable of murder or molestation is not worthy. Because they ARE NOT worthy in our eyes.

 

In my belief, all sin is sin in God's eye. There is no big sin or no little sin. Yet, just because one asks to be saved and go to Heaven, that doesn't mean that there isn't punishment for those sins. I believe that He will be the ultimate judge in that- and He will right every wrong. There will be punishment for the murder and the molestor, just like there will be punishment for those who lie, cheat, steal, bear false witness against their neighbor, fornicate, etc.

 

Jesus was on the cross and dying. He hung there with two thieves. One of them mocked him but the other said, "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom" and Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me in paradise". That's not word for word but roughly what was said. That tells me that THAT DAY the thief was with Him in paradise. That means, the thief asked and was given.

 

I'm certainly not an unintelligent person or a "oddity" and I have these beliefs. You can agree with me or disagree it doesn't make a difference to me. But, what if I'm right?? To me, that's the big thing. What if what we say is right?? Who is going to be the bigger loser?? If unbelievers are right and there is no Heaven and Hell- then when we die we go to nothing. If believers are right and we've chosen correctly then we go to Heaven when we die, but the people who didn't believe do not. I'm not willing to base eternity on the chance that I may not be right.

[witabix]

I see you're already puckering up for the task...

 

:lmao:

 

Kiss kiss XX!

[blind_otter]

This is why I don't really get why born again christians believe that catholics are going to hell.

[lindya]

What if what we say is right?? Who is going to be the bigger loser?? If unbelievers are right and there is no Heaven and Hell- then when we die we go to nothing. If believers are right and we've chosen correctly then we go to Heaven when we die, but the people who didn't believe do not. I'm not willing to base eternity on the chance that I may not be right.

 

What on earth is so worthy about living by the rules just so that you get a heavenly reward at the end of it or avoid punishment? There are plenty of people who manage to make up their own rules (with no, little or some help from the bible depending on their beliefs). They have a code of ethics for living that results in them causing as little (and often significantly less) harm to their fellow human beings as religious fundamentalists cause. Their code of ethics just happens to come from human empathy rather than from the bible.

[Admiral Thrawn]

It's more logical for the victim of sinners to forgive than you or any religion...For a murderer, he cannot be forogiven because he has taken away the life of his victim. As for a molester, a robber, an abuser and so forth, it is up to their victims to forgive them, otherwise it makes no sense to sin like a heathen then have an imaginary figure forgive you just so you could be at peace with yourself! That's so wrong but whatever makes you feel better...if someone kills me, I don't want them to see the light of day, let alone live happily ever after in heaven just because after the fact they change their mind about it. What's done is done and any other creative way to get around it is for the weak to make them think in their heads they have reversed their crimes.

 

I think you are twisting my post when you are inferring that I have the power to forgive sins, I never said that (other than people who have personally wronged me).

 

Whenever anyone sins, for example murder, then they are sinning against God, because one of the Ten Commandments says 'Thou shalt not kill'. So, it is up to God to forgive them, not anyone else, in terms of making it to heaven.

 

Anyway, you asked a question about Christian theology on your thread, and I believe it has been answered.

[a4a]

If believers are right and we've chosen correctly then we go to Heaven when we die, but the people who didn't believe do not. I'm not willing to base eternity on the chance that I may not be right.

 

Again my insurance policy based on fear theory fits this.

 

No offense MP.... I think others are free to believe what they like, again, just as long as their belief is not squashing my freedom or rights.

 

You may be shyt outta luck if the muslims are the correct belief party?

 

a4a

[Admiral Thrawn]

HotCaliGirl;

 

Have you ever hated someone, or even wished someone was dead at any point in your life? If you are honest with yourself, and have done so, then according to Jesus' teachings, you are not much different than a murderer.

[Admiral Thrawn]

post withdrawn.

[a4a]

HotCaliGirl;

 

Have you ever hated someone, or even wished someone was dead at any point in your life? If you are honest with yourself, and have done so, then according to Jesus' teachings, you are not much different than a murderer.

 

 

I think I am having that thought right now........ :lmao:

 

so sorry could not help that one.... the devil made me do it!

 

a4a

[Moose]

I have to get my .02 in here. Here's how I look at this situation:

I frequently hear that Jesus died for our sins and it is used as an excuse for people to sin like there's no tomorrow, because Jesus alrady paid the price for all the sins we did and will commit.

Whoever is claiming that Jesus died for their sins, and keep sinning, aren't saved. Those of us who've received Christ as their Saviour don't have the capacity to use his death, and resurrection as an excuse to sin more.

That's why murderers and molesters will all still be able to go to heaven, as long as they thank jesus for dying for our sins and believing in him. Almost everyone in jail reads the bible, so pretty much everyone is basically going to heaven.

First, as much as it pains all of us, we are all welcome into the kingdom of heaven. I don't care what you've done. Charles Manson claimed he found Christ in jail. If that's true, and he did accept Christ as his Saviour, then yes.....he's in heaven.

 

Does this mean he doesn't pay for his sins? I don't know for sure, but from what I understand, we don't just go to heaven and sit around eating nachos, and watching TV. We'll all have our duties. Personally, the sins I've sinned in my lifetime, I would think it's only fair that I be demoted to palace janitor in God's house.

There's no such thing as hell or heaven, but I'd rather burn in hell than spend eternity in "heaven" with murderers and molesters who you claim are your equals!!!

If it's any comfort to you HotCali, Heaven is a huge place. We aren't going to spend eternity there either. Eventually, we'll all be back here on Earth to rule with Christ.

 

Like I said before, if, IF these molestors, and murderers are indeed saved, they will not have the capacity to commit these sins again, especially in their new glorified, sinless bodies.

 

AT stated that there's an unforgivable sin. I say it's not his place to make such a statement. I don't recall Scripture saying blasphemy is unforgivable. Suicide is the only way a person can blasphimize God, without being forgiven. You literally take your life in your own hands, where God should have complete control of said life.

 

Also, I'd be interested to see what AT has to say if a saved person commits suicide, will he, or will he not enter the kingdom?

 

Scriptures clearly state that no man, NO MAN, can pluck a saved person out of the Father's hand.

So do you also beleiver that a mass murderer and everyone as long as they're religious they can do whatever they want and all will be forgiven that they are equal to you as a person??

No.You can be as religious as the Pope himself, and not be saved. I believe that ONLY if Christ is really in these people's heart, they would be equal Son's of God.....yes.

[Admiral Thrawn]

Ok a hypothetical situation....

 

A man kills me.

 

I will, by the standards I see here, go to hell.

 

I have commited the sin that AT said was unforgivable. Blaphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

Which is probably in the context of rejecting Jesus as your saviour.

 

I have never murdered, raped, abused etc.

 

But I go to hell.

 

You have done other sins. If ever you hated anyone in your life, or harbored lustful thoughts for someone, then you are a murder and a rapist, as you have the same thoughts, intentions and heart as one, the only difference is, you have not acted on it.

 

The killer goes to prison.

 

Repents and is born again into the light of Jesus Christ.

 

He dies and goes to heaven.

 

Fair?

 

You have the same opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as someone in prison does, or anyone else for that matter. So, yes it is fair.

[Mz. Pixie]

What on earth is so worthy about living by the rules just so that you get a heavenly reward at the end of it or avoid punishment? There are plenty of people who manage to make up their own rules (with no, little or some help from the bible depending on their beliefs). They have a code of ethics for living that results in them causing as little (and often significantly less) harm to their fellow human beings as religious fundamentalists cause. Their code of ethics just happens to come from human empathy rather than from the bible.

 

I certainly believe that there are people capable of having good morals and living correctly from human empathy that are not Christian. I never said that that made anyone a bad person.

 

What's worthy to me is the explanation of Hell that's given in what I believe to be the true word of God, the Bible. It says you burn for an eternity- and not even a drop of water will touch your tongue.

 

Also, I believe in Heaven that I will in the presence of my Father and with all of my loved ones who have gone before me. That is another reason why Heaven is appealing to me.

[a4a]

but from what I understand, we don't just go to heaven and sit around eating nachos, and watching TV. We'll all have our duties. Personally, the sins I've sinned in my lifetime, I would think it's only fair that I be demoted to palace janitor in God's house.

.

 

 

See again it does not sound like a place I want to hang out in.. more work.

Holy Smokes I have spent the last 15 years of my life doing good deeds without payment, because I can and I am able. (times I just don't feel like it but I still do). And I have to keep that crap up if I go to heaven........sheesh.

 

Just pullin your antlers Moose.

 

a4a

[Admiral Thrawn]

 

AT stated that there's an unforgivable sin. I say it's not his place to make such a statement. I don't recall Scripture saying blasphemy is unforgivable. Suicide is the only way a person can blasphimize God, without being forgiven. You literally take your life in your own hands, where God should have complete control of said life.

 

Also, I'd be interested to see what AT has to say if a saved person commits suicide, will he, or will he not enter the kingdom?

 

 

The Bible says that 'Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit', which I infer to mean either rejecting a call of God to receive Christ, or meaning to profane the moving of the Holy Spirit and attribute it to evil spirits, or lying to the Holy Spirit - can be found in Matthew 12:31.

 

The Biblical commentary, and I believe prevailing Christian wisdom will indicate that if you reject Jesus Christ as your saviour, especially after a call from the Holy Spirit through an Alter Call, then you are in mortal danger. It is the Holy Spirit that enables people to accept Jesus Christ, and if someone under the call of the Spirit really rejects Jesus Christ, then there is no hope.

[a4a]

Well the "marrying dude" told me you cannot earn it by your deeds here such as what I do, so it would only make sense that if you did the opposite of what I do that it would not matter.

 

a4a

[Admiral Thrawn]

well back in the olden days of yore

those that actually professed to believe and follow the teachings of this bible also sent innocent people to their deaths...... like those terrible witches.

So of course as long as they say they believed.. being a murderer was okey dokey.

 

No, you are wrong. People who believed the Bible, but rejected the Roman Catholic church's doctrine of transsubstantiatoin, sacraments, authority of popes/priests, were killed. The Council of Trent, and Roman Catholic extra-biblical nonsence ruled that day, not the Bible.

 

I see it still today, Robertson is a good one for that! I think he would be on a witch hunt in modern times if he indeed could get away with it. Maybe Hinn could heal Robertson? Funny why don't they heal each other?

 

Robertson doesn't speak for all Christians, just like the Roman Catholic Church does not speak for all Christians.

 

So of course Heaven will be filled with murderers, rapist, molesting monsters, and others who believed and worked as the hand of this god.

 

If they received Jesus Christ as their savior, then they are children of God.

They are no longer murderers, rapists, or molesting monsters in God's eyes once they are born-again.

 

As for the Catholic religion....... abortion was ok, then a pope changed that, now limbo is gone, you can just rewrite and reset the rules. Pretty cool!

 

back to regular scheduled program.

 

The Roman Catholic church does not speak for all Christians.

[EnigmaXOXO]

But, what if I'm right?? To me, that's the big thing. What if what we say is right?? Who is going to be the bigger loser?? If unbelievers are right and there is no Heaven and Hell- then when we die we go to nothing. If believers are right and we've chosen correctly then we go to Heaven when we die, but the people who didn't believe do not. I'm not willing to base eternity on the chance that I may not be right.

 

Well, Pixie. I guess I look at it this way:

 

If G-d is all knowing, then he is already aware of how confused we mortals are regarding the thousands of new religious organizations, all claiming to be the only "True" path to G-d… as well as all those hundreds of self-proclaimed profits claiming to speak for G-d… while at the same time each having dirtied their hands in some form of scandal at one time or another.

 

It would take little explaining for the agnostic; except to say that you were following His sound advice to: "beware of false profits."

 

That's my plea when I 'pucker up' and throw myself on the mercy of the court. And I'm sticking to it! That, and my decent track record.

 

Lord, I applogize for dat right dare… and G-d bless all the starvin' pigmies down in New Guinea.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Oooh...I like your take on it RR, very interesting.

 

Thank you

 

 

maybe without as much freedom of speach people kept their mouths shut and didn't question their faith on top of it, which is a healthy thing to do so that you can come to believe on your own terms should you decide to.

 

I fully agree. Jesus asked lots of questions - so should we. It's the only way to learn and grow

[lindya]

I certainly believe that there are people capable of having good morals and living correctly from human empathy that are not Christian. I never said that that made anyone a bad person.

 

What's worthy to me is the explanation of Hell that's given in what I believe to be the true word of God, the Bible. It says you burn for an eternity- and not even a drop of water will touch your tongue.

 

Also, I believe in Heaven that I will in the presence of my Father and with all of my loved ones who have gone before me. That is another reason why Heaven is appealing to me.

 

That sounds fair, and it's not that definition of Christianity that bothers me Pixie. In my own way, I have beliefs too. What does trouble me is those who preach in a condescending manner that suggests they believe they have higher knowledge and the right to pass judgement on others. for instance..

 

You have done other sins. If ever you hated anyone in your life, or harbored lustful thoughts for someone, then you are a murder and a rapist, as you have the same thoughts, intentions and heart as one, the only difference is, you have not acted on it.

 

As if the failure to act on those thoughts constitutes only a minor difference! For the unwitting victim of those thoughts who becomes a real life victim of those who act on such thoughts, it makes all the difference in the world.

 

Admiral Thrawn. In taking every word of the bible literally and failing to develop your own code of ethics - ie one that may be consistent to many of the bible's teachings, but is independent of it - you may be guilty of burying your own particular talent (ie the talent to think independently) in the earth. Wasn't the burial of a talent considered to be a form of sin according to the parable of the 3 talents?

[Moose]

This is what Matthew 12:31 meant:

The truth is that the presence of Jesus put everything to the test; everything on God's part was centred in Him. It is Emmanuel Himself who was there. He who was not with Him was against Him. He who did not gather with Him scattered. Everything now depended on Him alone. He would bear with all unbelief as to His own Person. Grace could remove that. He could pardon all sin; but to speak against and blaspheme the Holy Ghost (that is, to acknowledge the exercise of a power, which is that of God, and to attribute it to Satan) could not be pardoned; for the Pharisees admitted that the devil was cast out, and it was only with malice, with open-eyed deliberate hatred to God, that they attributed it to Satan. And what pardon could there be for this? There was none either in the age of the law or in that of the Messiah. The fate of those who thus acted was decided.

 

Oh Yeah:

Also, I'd be interested to see what AT has to say if a saved person commits suicide, will he, or will he not enter the kingdom?

You dodged this.....care to answer me?

[a4a]

This is what Matthew 12:31 meant:

 

Oh Yeah: You dodged this.....care to answer me?Also, I'd be interested to see what AT has to say if a saved person commits suicide, will he, or will he not enter the kingdom?

 

Or for that matter a person unable to grasp the concept of religion at all.

May it be from extreme mental or a physical illness that effects a mind.

If they are unable to accept god at all.

 

a4a

[Moose]

Or for that matter a person unable to grasp the concept of religion at all.

May it be from extreme mental or a physical illness that effects a mind.

If they are unable to accept god at all.

 

a4a

I believe God covered that. Anyone capable of evil is capable of good, and will be held accountable. If a person can't comprehend good vs. evil, evil vs. good, they are not held accountable.

 

The saved, definitely knows the difference.