Author ZA Dater Posted June 2, 2021 Author Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: You also said he was better looking with a pile of money... and I guess his connection and flirting skills were on point... You also thought you could beat him in public debate in front of everyone, but that made you look bad and him look good actually... He did not look good by any means, he totally withdrew from normal conversation and it was not me debating but someone else at the table. Point being a pile of money and perceived success matter more than most people think....that applies to any level.
elaine567 Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: You tell me this 1: Friendzone someone who ticks most of the attraction/intellectual boxes 2: Date someone who does neither of those things Which one are you picking because those are the choices you have given. Last I checked I had 52 tinder matches of "average" women, none interest me, it would be possible to go on coffee dates with all 52 of them but I would just be wasting my time 52 times. I am picking neither as 1 is a waste of time in the dating sense, they have rejected me and I am looking for a date not a friend, and 2 is not what I want. BUT if 2 is all apparently I can achieve from experience then I will have to alter my filtering criteria or remain alone. If you have 52 potential interests then it is pretty foolish to dismiss most out of hand, in favour of an impossible dream... One day I guess you will regret all this nonsense. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted June 2, 2021 Author Posted June 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, elaine567 said: I am picking neither as 1 is a waste of time in the dating sense, they have rejected me and I am looking for a date not a friend, and 2 is not what I want. BUT if 2 is all apparently I can achieve from experience then I will have to alter my filtering criteria or remain alone. If you have 52 potential interests then it is pretty foolish to dismiss most out of hand, in favour of an impossible dream... One day I guess you will regret all this nonsense. I'd be surprised if anyone who contributed to this thread would date any of the 52. Its easy to dismiss all of hand because as you say they are the "average".
basil67 Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: He did not look good by any means, he totally withdrew from normal conversation and it was not me debating but someone else at the table. Point being a pile of money and perceived success matter more than most people think....that applies to any level. Someone else was debating him at the table and he left? Sounds like my type of guy. 2
BaileyB Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, basil67 said: Someone else was debating him at the table and he left? Sounds like my type of guy. He had the insight to realize that he didn’t want to get drawn into a futile and frustrating discussion. Smart man.
Author ZA Dater Posted June 2, 2021 Author Posted June 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, BaileyB said: He had the insight to realize that he didn’t want to get drawn into a futile and frustrating discussion. Smart man. Yeah real smart, 7 people at a table are chatting amongst themselves and you withdraw yourself from the conversation, sounds really smart to me sitting there with nothing to say.
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 21 hours ago, ZA Dater said: When the entire conversation is about them I tend to become very bored to be honest. Yes I am glad I agree what a conversation should be, that back and forth is great but in my experience hard to find. Yip the story angle I used in this particular date and it pretty much created the conversation. I personally don't get bored if she goes on about herself, kind of prefer it and it can be a very good sign (i.e. she is comfortable and/or looking to impress you) and rarely simply attention seeking. It also makes it easy to keep a conversation going as she is offering up oodles of stuff to follow-up on she is interested in...and it provides an opportunity for connection if one can empathize with her narrative to make appropriate jokes etc. See the story angle is good, sharing our life experiences is a part of connection. When someone spills theirs they are hoping you can connect with part of it. Being able to genuinely empathize enough with it to make appropriate joke or insightful comment provides connection.
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 21 hours ago, elaine567 said: ....Women often like men to lead the conversation. ... That is not the case for the women I'm attracted to, but it is a nuance. They may not want me to lead (as they have areas they want the conversation to cover as well), but they do want me to fully engage and actually connect with them so we can have a back and forth synergistic conversation...which is a bit "harder" than leading. 1
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 19 hours ago, Not So Sad II said: .... If I were limiting myself to male models though, I doubt I'd have much success, because male models are a very limited sector of the population, and I'd assume they might want to date female models. Correction...I'd assume they want to date male models.
Trail Blazer Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 6 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Ok, its odd because I spend a lot of time around the supposed top tier men and you know what most of the time there is nothing remarkable about them at all, nothing whatsoever, people put these guys on a different level when they really are not. This is what I have been saying all the time, I am quite happy to try compete with them because as you and others have told me looks and money do not make any difference at all, its about connection, flirting, seduction so if I can do those things then why cant I compete? Well, gone on then! What are you waiting for?
Trail Blazer Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, ZA Dater said: You tell me this 1: Friendzone someone who ticks most of the attraction/intellectual boxes 2: Date someone who does neither of those things Which one are you picking because those are the choices you have given. Last I checked I had 52 tinder matches of "average" women, none interest me, it would be possible to go on coffee dates with all 52 of them but I would just be wasting my time 52 times. Average? So, they were moderately attractive? Somewhat educated? You are average, so what gives you the right to aspire to the upper echelon of women? Would you not say, logically, that this would be defined as delusional? 2
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 18 hours ago, ZA Dater said: ... I accept that BUT what I WILL NOT accept is the argument around supposed leagues, that point blank irritates me and I think you can understand why, its at odds with me view that we should all aspire to what we really want. I can agree with you on the concept of "leagues" as it is commonly used. Think it is bogus, tautological. Whoever you can get is in your league and whoever you can't is out of it, it seems. It presupposes people approach relationships as some quality checklist (which many may) and that the items on the list are the same. The simple fact that people see couples and think wow how did her get her or she get him is evidence. It's not that these couples are a paradox, they only seem that way because one's theory of how people choose is flawed. However, that doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as compatibility and not having enough of what a person is looking for. One could bucket all that into a league and then each of us would have a league of their own. Yet the idea of leagues is just code for socio-economic and appearance status, it breeds the impetus to improve one's "league", which is exactly what a consumerist/materialistic society wants you to do. Or said another way, never heard anyone say yah I was out of her league, she is just more centered and insightful and empathetic than me. Nope, the "league" is always about looks and money, and amazing how much behavior actually seeking connection and chemistry will be squished to fix in that box. I've avoided the world of "leagues" like the plague...and glad of...and sad of it when I gave those in a "league" a chance. A long way of me saying, you don't need better looks or more money to get "models" in my view (you more than meet any minimum, surpass any red flag level from what I know). That's not good news though, because the hard part is you lack the skills to connect which is what a "model" is most likely after if she is not about looks, money and status. I put model in quotes as a way to say they are attractive enough they could be a model. This is at least in my direct expereince having dated "models." There is a whole subset of "models" who are very much turned off by the peacock, by the guy who thinks he is in the premier "league," maybe even more so with actual models as they see the vacuousness of the whole thing. Let those who are in "leagues" play their game, there are plenty who want no part of that and "win" by playing their own game.
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 19 hours ago, ZA Dater said: .. common interest and common ground... I hate to say I feel part of your problem is the extent of your ground and interest are limited and you are not adept at expanding them or even getting interested in expanding them if another person's are broader. It is like you have a script or map for this and if things do not fall within that script or map you are disconnected and at a loss.
Trail Blazer Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Than you once again for supporting yet another point I was making, to everyone who tells me to date average would YOU date that average? Lets be honest here, I am brutally honest so lets dispense with the PC and actually be honest, how many of you would date that average? No, *I* wouldn't these days. But I have in the past. And if I were struggling to get dates, sure I would. As long as I didn't find them repulsive, I'd give them a shot if they were my only options.
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Than you once again for supporting yet another point I was making, to everyone who tells me to date average would YOU date that average? Lets be honest here, I am brutally honest so lets dispense with the PC and actually be honest, how many of you would date that average? The average BMI of a woman in the use is over 26 from a quick google search....but that means little, there is a whole distribution both statistically, geographically and socio-economically. I'm personally suggesting you stick with what you like just trying to tell you what in my experience (different place and time certainly) can work to get it, as far as I understand what you want.
SumGuy Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 7 hours ago, ZA Dater said: ... because as you and others have told me looks and money do not make any difference at all, its about connection, flirting, seduction so if I can do those things then why cant I compete? More precisely, there are plenty of "models" who looks and money are not determinative at all; we all have minimums, believe you easily meet them, and they are much lower than many may think. There are also plenty of people where looks and money are what it is mostly about, different advice from what I am putting forth to get those people. Yes indeed connection, flirting, seduction if you have those things you can do well. In my view you really need to work on those, and a good first step could be conversational skills and expanding what triggers your ability to show interest and engage.
Happy Lemming Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I'd be surprised if anyone who contributed to this thread would date any of the 52. I would and I have!! I've dated women who were 4' 10" to 6' 2", 98 lbs to 305 lbs, 15 years younger to 15 years older (than me), every body type, Doctors to Taxi-cab dispatchers... Blondes, Brunettes, red-heads, silver/gray you name it... I've dated the entire spectrum of different women and I've had a BLAST!! If a woman was fun to be with and I was enjoying myself, I dated/slept with her!! I've led a happy and very enjoyable life!!
dramafreezone Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, SumGuy said: That is not the case for the women I'm attracted to, but it is a nuance. They may not want me to lead (as they have areas they want the conversation to cover as well), but they do want me to fully engage and actually connect with them so we can have a back and forth synergistic conversation...which is a bit "harder" than leading. Yeah I would agree, the women I'm attracted to love to talk. All I have to do is direct the conversation and add in observations so that they know I'm listening. I would say it's about 70/30 or 80/20 as far as her talking to my own. I've found when I dominate the conversation there is less connection. There is not some conversation dynamic that fits every man and woman. Some women prefer if the man dominates the conversation. The man has to have that as part of his personality though. If you're not naturally talkative, you should match with someone who is. Two talkative types or two reserved types don't work IMO.
Author ZA Dater Posted June 2, 2021 Author Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, SumGuy said: I personally don't get bored if she goes on about herself, kind of prefer it and it can be a very good sign (i.e. she is comfortable and/or looking to impress you) and rarely simply attention seeking. It also makes it easy to keep a conversation going as she is offering up oodles of stuff to follow-up on she is interested in...and it provides an opportunity for connection if one can empathize with her narrative to make appropriate jokes etc. See the story angle is good, sharing our life experiences is a part of connection. When someone spills theirs they are hoping you can connect with part of it. Being able to genuinely empathize enough with it to make appropriate joke or insightful comment provides connection. True. It becomes problematic when its two hours discussing a job interview.....as for trying to impress me, cant say I have ever had that! I use the story angle as often as I can because its a good opportunity to bring some humor into the conversation because I have done some quite silly things.
Author ZA Dater Posted June 2, 2021 Author Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, dramafreezone said: Yeah I would agree, the women I'm attracted to love to talk. All I have to do is direct the conversation and add in observations so that they know I'm listening. I would say it's about 70/30 or 80/20 as far as her talking to my own. I've found when I dominate the conversation there is less connection. There is not some conversation dynamic that fits every man and woman. Some women prefer if the man dominates the conversation. The man has to have that as part of his personality though. If you're not naturally talkative, you should match with someone who is. Two talkative types or two reserved types don't work IMO. That is absolutely true and agree with it totally. At the end of the day dating seems to be a puzzle, pieces either fit together or they do not.
elaine567 Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: All I have to do is direct the conversation I.E. you are leading the conversation. I didn't say dominate I said lead...
basil67 Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 9 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Yeah real smart, 7 people at a table are chatting amongst themselves and you withdraw yourself from the conversation, sounds really smart to me sitting there with nothing to say. Except they weren't chatting, they were debating.
basil67 Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, ZA Dater said: True. It becomes problematic when its two hours discussing a job interview.... I honestly can't imagine how a discussion of anything could last for two hours. Either this is a massive exaggeration or you kept engaging on the topic. If it was the latter, the date was probably horrific for both of you. Do you know how to segue into a new topic? Edited June 2, 2021 by basil67 1
BaileyB Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, basil67 said: I honestly can't imagine how a discussion of anything could last for two hours. Either this is a massive exaggeration or you kept engaging on the topic. If it was the latter, the date was probably horrific for both of you. Do you know how to segue into a new topic? Exaggerating in the same way that there is not a single match on OLD that isn’t overweight? Not a single woman with whom he can have an interesting conversation? Most women won’t even ask a single question about OP - they prefer to talk only about themselves. Hmm... Edited June 2, 2021 by BaileyB 1
Trail Blazer Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, enigma32 said: In the spirit of fairness, this was kinda my OLD experience as well. A ton of big girls that just want to talk about themselves. One popular dating tip for men is to just let ladies talk about themselves on dates and only give occasional witty feedback to show you are engaged and listening. It's one way to make sure she has a good time. Unless you pay for Tinder Gold to see how many women have swiped right on you, how does one even know they match with big girls who talk about themselves? I had Tinder Gold for one month and yeah, the right-swipes I received that I hadn't already right-swiped myself were not worth swiping right to. A lot of big girls indeed. I did have a lot of big girls message me on PoF because that doesn't require swiping. Most of them I told straight out I wasn't interested. Some just wanted to talk anyway, but they did stop quickly if I didn't reciprocate. At the end of the day, I struggle to believe that all of the 52 women that have swiped right on @ZA Dater were all overweight. Surely There were a few that were half decent looking prospects, OP?
Recommended Posts