Catfish

[Acacia98]

On 5/15/2021 at 9:13 PM, ZA Dater said:

I had few friends growing up because many were religious and I am not so no a religious alternative will not work. No, I think I just need to slow down and just let things be.

(...)

I got a really nice birthday message today from the window I spent a lot of time with, she remembered it was my birthday and really said a lot of really touching nice things, which I really appreciated. I declined an invite to join a friend and his friends this morning, one thing this forum is teaching me slowly is to say no to situations where I am going to feel poorly about myself and sitting with a bunch of people I have nothing in common with and being the spare parts there would not make me feel good so I went for a walk on my own instead. I had a great networking business meeting yesterday with someone I met for the first time.

The point here is for too many years I have put myself in situations which do no work for me and the only person who ends up feeling bad is me, sitting with guys talking about this chick and that chick and who did what and who is better, what do I have to add to that conversation, nothing and I just end up regretting the life I never had and wont ever have. Instead I can focus my energy on work and things which do matter to me and do when I get them right give me a sense of success.

These are great insights.

[chillii]

Ahhh, it's just common sense nothing insightful about it you hang out with people you fit with. At any rate it was nice that they bothered even asking you anyway op ,

l'd also be thinking yeah good idea just slow down a bit on the women front , nice things happen as they should when we just take it easy and lighten up with things. l still say too though as l have a few times now, at least you get plenty of dates though so at least that's something , there must be something good at least to start . A lot of people women or men don't meet that many so yaknow, give yourself that at least.

[basil67]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, ZA Dater said:

I declined an invite to join a friend and his friends this morning, one thing this forum is teaching me slowly is to say no to situations where I am going to feel poorly about myself and sitting with a bunch of people I have nothing in common with and being the spare parts there would not make me feel good so I went for a walk on my own instead.

@ZA Dater , I know you don't believe in the 'tribes' which I talk about.  As in 'finding the tribe you fit well with".  But what you have described here is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  These people are not of your tribe and this is why you don't feel right with them.   However, there will be others who are of your tribe.

Edited May 30, 2021 by basil67

[elaine567]

I get that these friends are not making you feel good atm, but self isolation which is maybe what you are doing can be a symptom of depression so be mindful of that.

[ZA Dater]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:14 AM, elaine567 said:

I get that these friends are not making you feel good atm, but self isolation which is maybe what you are doing can be a symptom of depression so be mindful of that.

Its something I do quite often from a social point of view, always have because well people are not that interested in me so best just try enjoy my own company. I am only interesting to them if they sense I can offer them something but then again that is just life.

Yesterday I created a new Hinge account with the best pictures I have to compare to when I did this experiment, I got matched to a totally different set of people, largely the same people I get matched with on Tinder so that tells me that ostensibly these two apps work similarly. Gone were the really attractive people and I'll probably just delete it again.

Look to be honest I tend to live life finding the next thing to look forward to and in some respects this is a bad way to live because you wish days away to get closer to whatever I am looking forward to. I am arranging a rather unique dinner for the club I run and that should be quite nice.

Everything in life we experience teaches us something and maybe this dating disaster is here to teach me something after all. 

 

[ZA Dater]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:01 AM, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater , I know you don't believe in the 'tribes' which I talk about.  As in 'finding the tribe you fit well with".  But what you have described here is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  These people are not of your tribe and this is why you don't feel right with them.   However, there will be others who are of your tribe.

I do not really think those people exist. Mostly I do not feel right because the very thing they boast about is the very thing not matter how hard I try I simply cannot get.  

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

well people are not that interested in me so best just try enjoy my own company.

But are you interested in people? That’s the reason to be social. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 I got matched to a totally different set of people.... Gone were the really attractive people and I'll probably just delete it again.

But if you admit that you’re not a “really attractive person” why would you expect to match with them?

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Everything in life we experience teaches us something and maybe this dating disaster is here to teach me something after all. 

Problem is you refuse to learn. 

[dramafreezone]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not really think those people exist. Mostly I do not feel right because the very thing they boast about is the very thing not matter how hard I try I simply cannot get.  

What do you mean "get."  We've told you numerous times what to do to increase your attractiveness but you've not committed to any of it.  Dressing well for a little while isn't committing.

Anyways, I've given you tips on what's worked for me.  There's a concept known as "situational Alpha" where someone can increase their status in a specific setting (such as work, school, gym) to rise to the top of the status ladder.  I've told you that you can use your career to increase your status.  I've done that to great effect, I'm the absolute best at my current career and it's absolutely garnered the attraction of women that probably wouldn't give me a second look outside of the workplace.  But because I'm dominant in this setting, it works.  But you've even said you don't care to work harder at your job to acheive some status.  Don't really know what can help you if you don't help yourself. 

You have to offer something to barter with if you want attractive women, they have to be with someone with great looks, great wealth, great confidence, great status, great physical stature, something.   Some are born with some of that stuff, they're lucky.  Others have to acquire those things/qualities, but it's all transactional in the grand scheme of things.  You want to believe that attraction is about who you are, and it's not.  It's about what you have to offer, all of that inner stuff comes later.

Quit bemoaning what you don't have.  There are plenty of better looking guys than me, but they aren't as good at what I do as they are at what they do.   You need to own what you do well and build that up to it's maximum potential.  You think you're such a great listener and can support women so well, you need to do something with that to be the best listener in the entire world.  Do something instead of being ho-hum, that won't cut if you want great results.

Edited June 7, 2021 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

But are you interested in people? That’s the reason to be social. 

 

But if you admit that you’re not a “really attractive person” why would you expect to match with them?

 

Problem is you refuse to learn. 

I am certainly a lot more attractive than those I am being shown. 

Haha I learn very well thanks, learning to accept average is something I am not at all interested in learning. Its the be all and end all solution that gets bandied about here all the time. All is alright if I simply ignore the experiences I cant have and stick my head in the sand and pretend all is well. 

Much of what we do as people is pretty horrid done alone but I imagine its even worse when you have someone around you do not really like having around but have around as a convenience so to speak. 

At least the catfish experiment showed me the other side of the coin, great conversation, much more engaging conversation and people actually looking to converse versus me normally have to try and squeeze water out of a stone. The perks of being attractive I guess, people you find attractive want you. That is really the defining difference.

But well I suppose we can train our minds to find alternatives attractive if we really want but that can only go so far.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

What do you mean "get."  We've told you numerous times what to do to increase your attractiveness but you've not committed to any of it.  Dressing well for a little while isn't committing.

Anyways, I've given you tips on what's worked for me.  There's a concept known as "situational Alpha" where someone can increase their status in a specific setting (such as work, school, gym) to rise to the top of the status ladder.  I've told you that you can use your career to increase your status.  I've done that to great effect, I'm the absolute best at my current career and it's absolutely garnered the attraction of women that probably wouldn't give me a second look outside of the workplace.  But because I'm dominant in this setting, it works.  But you've even said you don't care to work harder at your job to acheive some status.  Don't really know what can help you if you don't help yourself. 

You have to offer something to barter with if you want attractive women, they have to be with someone with great looks, great wealth, great confidence, great status, great physical stature, something.   You want to believe that attraction is about who you are, and it's not.  It's about what you have to offer, all of that inner stuff comes later.

I agree with the last part, totally disagree with the underlined part, that is mostly irrelevant, many women will tolerate endless BS so long as their man can take them on those holidays, go to those fancy dinners and be seen around town with him, I have seen this over and over with my own two eyes, guys 50+ dating 27 yo, they could not care less about those men barring the ability for those men by association to elevate them up the ladder in society.

As for work, I sacrificed all dating for studies and work throughout my 20's and I'd never date in the work place, I do not even work from an office anymore for that matter.  Might be hard to take but I generally look at the persons personality being more of a premium than their looks BUT they need to be reasonably attractive to begin with which rules out those who never do any exercise at all.

Work is a fantastic retreat from dating and its the one thing I think about most because each day moves from semi impossible to almost totally impossible, this creates that other thing women love oh sorry hate, intensity, I am intense because of work. 

I am just accepting it all for what it is, I have my blog I write where I air my thoughts and it makes me feel better. This weekend I had a look at contrived meet up again and that does not appeal to me at all. At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with sitting on the beach alone, walking in the forest alone, sitting in a cafe alone, going to dinner alone (alright that is quite unpleasant but if I really feel like it, I'll do it), going for a drive on my own. I have tried car clubs as a place to meet people but again my taste in muscle cars is too eclectic and nobody really likes what I do. The story of my life really, its a price one pays when choosing to live based on what you like rather than pretending to like what everyone else does.

For what its worth I try dress well all the time in what I find nice and what I feel confident in. 

The mistake I made in life was never bothering to friend network properly at high school and when I was studying because I believe its far easier to meet people through friends than it is at a bar or club but then again the things I like made making friends pretty difficult. 

Ultimately I will probably end up going the commercial "dating" route. 

[dramafreezone]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

I agree with the last part, totally disagree with the underlined part, that is mostly irrelevant, many women will tolerate endless BS so long as their man can take them on those holidays, go to those fancy dinners and be seen around town with him, I have seen this over and over with my own two eyes, guys 50+ dating 27 yo, they could not care less about those men barring the ability for those men by association to elevate them up the ladder in society.

 

Well ok, but those guys aren't getting affection, and they're probably getting cheated on.  Is that what you want in your life?

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

Well ok, but those guys aren't getting affection, and they're probably getting cheated on.  Is that what you want in your life?

Well its easy for them to find the next lady so its its a use use scenario really. Lot of those guys are doing the cheating too.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am certainly a lot more attractive than those I am being shown. 

Ok. But you said the really attractive people were gone. I assumed the average attractive people were left.

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Haha I learn very well thanks, learning to accept average is something I am not at all interested in learning.

This shows me you don’t get it. You’re looking at women like they’re an indicator of your worth rather than as potential partners in your life. Nothing matters except her compatibility with you. She might be “average” but if you get along with her more than any other person, does that matter? 

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Much of what we do as people is pretty horrid done alone but I imagine its even worse when you have someone around you do not really like having around but have around as a convenience so to speak. 

And you do you reconcile saying the above with this:

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

.At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with sitting on the beach alone, walking in the forest alone, sitting in a cafe alone, going to dinner alone (alright that is quite unpleasant but if I really feel like it, I'll do it), going for a drive on my own.

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The story of my life really, its a price one pays when choosing to live based on what you like rather than pretending to like what everyone else does.

Honestly nothing in the way you describe yourself and your interests strikes me as abnormal in any way. You keep suggesting you’re somehow an abnormal fish out of water, but you just seem like a regular person, with regular interests. Cars. Surfing. Hiking. Going for drives to wineries. Literally nothing strange about any of that. You don’t like that bar / club scene. Normal stuff for someone your age. Even not drinking isn’t the big deal you make it. 
 

But you definitely have surrounded yourself with the wrong people.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Well its easy for them to find the next lady so its its a use use scenario really. Lot of those guys are doing the cheating too.

So I ask again, this is the lifestyle that you feel is so desirable?

You say these guys have it so good, a life of backstabbing and deception.

Edited June 7, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not really think those people exist. Mostly I do not feel right because the very thing they boast about is the very thing not matter how hard I try I simply cannot get.  

Your tribe does exist, but you're not going to find it among those you hang out with.   It's likely you'd find them among the more cerebral fields.  Academia, for instance.

[bene]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

agree with the last part, totally disagree with the underlined part, that is mostly irrelevant, many women will tolerate endless BS so long as their man can take them on those holidays, go to those fancy dinners and be seen around town with him, I have seen this over and over with my own two eyes, guys 50+ dating 27 yo, they could not care less about those men barring the ability for those men by association to elevate them up the ladder in society.

Do you really not know any people who are just living their lives, raising families, taking field trips, walking on the beach etc? You make yourself an oddball while all the things you enjoy are completely “normal” and don’t separate you from the general population as much as you think.

This distorted view on the world where everyone is into club scene and all men are going after women half their age is hardly an accurate reflection on society. In fact I don’t even know people who frequent night clubs (not that there’s anything wrong with that if you enjoy it). But in your words it is impossible to find people who are not into drinking and night clubs. As others have said, you must associate with the wrong crowd who are not your people. Why do you think that is if you don’t care what people think?

Edited June 8, 2021 by bene

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

Your tribe does exist, but you're not going to find it among those you hang out with.   It's likely you'd find them among the more cerebral fields.  Academia, for instance.

For some reason ZA  seems to swerve "academia" and professional people, preferring to want to date less well educated types.
i guess he feels he doesn't quite "fit" into educated circles either.
I have a feeling ZA likes to be seen as the "intelligent" one in a group.
He thus does not want to feel inferior to anyone whose intelligence or education surpasses his own.
He tends to dismiss "book smart" people.
I guess it all boils down to lack of confidence when faced with people  who may in fact objectively be "better" than him on the things he thinks he is good at.
He prefers to feel superior to the "players" and "gold diggers" he seems to associate with.

[ZA Dater]

16 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

For some reason ZA  seems to swerve "academia" and professional people, preferring to want to date less well educated types.
i guess he feels he doesn't quite "fit" into educated circles either.
I have a feeling ZA likes to be seen as the "intelligent" one in a group.
He thus does not want to feel inferior to anyone whose intelligence or education surpasses his own.
He tends to dismiss "book smart" people.
I guess it all boils down to lack of confidence when faced with people  who may in fact objectively be "better" than him on the things he thinks he is good at.
He prefers to feel superior to the "players" and "gold diggers" he seems to associate with.

None of that is true.

I have been on dates with academics, I went on two dates with a lecturer. I have been on dates with accountants, finance people, au pairs, teacher, nurses, waiters, clerical workers, students so yes I have had a variety of dates with a variety of different people.

I do not mind the educated people, likewise I do not mind the street smart people either, they are much of a muchness really in many respects. Mostly I am seen as the quiet one in any group which is fine for me. 

Inferior is not a feeling I feel very often because I am quite ok in my own unattractive skin. As for the race who is better at what,  I never bothered entering that race, preferring to do my own thing and measure myself against my own set of objectives. I learnt early on in life the futility of competing for the sake of competing against objectives which are not of my choosing but rather ones prescribed to me.

The lecturer was probably my most "promising" date in some respects but there was just no glue, none of the "I really love spending time with you" I have with A and K. 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, bene said:

Do you really not know any people who are just living their lives, raising families, taking field trips, walking on the beach etc? You make yourself an oddball while all the things you enjoy are completely “normal” and don’t separate you from the general population as much as you think.

This distorted view on the world where everyone is into club scene and all men are going after women half their age is hardly an accurate reflection on society. In fact I don’t even know people who frequent night clubs (not that there’s anything wrong with that if you enjoy it). But in your words it is impossible to find people who are not into drinking and night clubs. As others have said, you must associate with the wrong crowd who are not your people. Why do you think that is if you don’t care what people think?

Well yes and no, I did get to live that sort of life with company for a fleeting moment and it was really nice.

At least by your definition I am normal, so thanks for that.

 

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

So I ask again, this is the lifestyle that you feel is so desirable?

You say these guys have it so good, a life of backstabbing and deception.

Well its a lot better getting attention from people you find attractive than it is from people you really do not find attractive at all, nothing I can say here can ever properly explain how irritating this in fact is. 

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Ok. But you said the really attractive people were gone. I assumed the average attractive people were left.

 

This shows me you don’t get it. You’re looking at women like they’re an indicator of your worth rather than as potential partners in your life. Nothing matters except her compatibility with you. She might be “average” but if you get along with her more than any other person, does that matter? 

 

And you do you reconcile saying the above with this:

 

 

Honestly nothing in the way you describe yourself and your interests strikes me as abnormal in any way. You keep suggesting you’re somehow an abnormal fish out of water, but you just seem like a regular person, with regular interests. Cars. Surfing. Hiking. Going for drives to wineries. Literally nothing strange about any of that. You don’t like that bar / club scene. Normal stuff for someone your age. Even not drinking isn’t the big deal you make it. 
 

But you definitely have surrounded yourself with the wrong people.

No, what is left is the very unattractive people as it always the case. Ok, let me tell you this, twice I have indeed sort of found compatible people but twice they were so physically unattractive to me to render any compatibility totally useless. 

I just look around me and the circus of relationships and this one this week and that one next week and this one has these issues and that one has those issues and I begin to ask myself is this what its supposed to be about. Then I meet A and I realize that flip there is another much nicer side to this which is something I really do like but then I to dating sites and I try based on my apparently normal interests and simply get nowhere. 

What I am effectively trying to do is to actually share those interests but nobody is ever interested in them. Join a club they say, yeah do that and find almost everyone is not single, then feel like the odd one out once again. Join this group, "guys lets go for drink" go for drinks "hey why you not drinking", once again the odd one out, truthfully I'd rather not put myself in those situations anymore. 

Anyone who is an outlier does pretty poorly on the attractive scale in my opinion based on what I have seen.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Anyone who is an outlier does pretty poorly on the attractive scale in my opinion based on what I have seen.

You’re not an outlier. You do need a major change to shake things up. Why is it you can’t move again? What’s holding you back?

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not an outlier. You do need a major change to shake things up. Why is it you can’t move again? What’s holding you back?

Quite happy living in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Why should I have to move either, its like telling someone to go to Russia if they want a GF. After all apparently I am the problem here and this city is full of friendly un clique like people. Put me somewhere else and apparently the result will be the same. 

A good example of the general level of irritation I matched with someone who is physically attractive on Hinge, getting her to actually communicate is like extracting water from a rock, frankly I cant be bothered. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Quite happy living in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Why should I have to move either, its like telling someone to go to Russia if they want a GF.

You’re in a rut. You’re stuck in your thinking. You refuse to go to therapy. A move can shake things up. You can live with intention. Lots of beautiful cities in this world…

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

A good example of the general level of irritation I matched with someone who is physically attractive on Hinge, getting her to actually communicate is like extracting water from a rock, frankly I cant be bothered. 

Everybody agrees, including you, that OLD doesn’t work for you. Yet you keep going back…it’s as if you continue doing the same things over and over again expecting a different result. It’s as if you’re caught in a cycle that you can’t break out of. Maybe a shakeup of some kind would help? Have you thought about moving?

[dramafreezone]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Quite happy living in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Why should I have to move either, its like telling someone to go to Russia if they want a GF. After all apparently I am the problem here and this city is full of friendly un clique like people. Put me somewhere else and apparently the result will be the same. 

 

You're quite obviously not happy.  Have you ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

Happy people exude happiness.  They're not constantly bemoaning what they don't have and how these other groups of people have it so good in life.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well its a lot better getting attention from people you find attractive than it is from people you really do not find attractive at all, nothing I can say here can ever properly explain how irritating this in fact is. 

Case in point, I only had to go back two posts to disprove what you're saying.

You're comfortable where you are, comfortable is the word you're looking for.  Comfort is your enemy though.  It's not designed for you to be great, comfort is designed to keep you safe.

Edited June 8, 2021 by dramafreezone