Shouldn't be dating if one can't afford it. a gentleman doesn't mind feeding a lady.

[neowulf]

3 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I hardly think that a date which consits of go-kart racing is appropriate for a first date.  Not to mention, it's usually not the cheapest thing to do.

Just for some perspective, are you in the camp of "guys should always pay first?" 🤔

I don't completely disagree with you about your issues with coffee shops.  Some aren't the best, I know.  But if I'm suggesting one, I make sure I suggest a good one!

Worked fine for me.

I've even gone further and limited the first date to 30 minutes.

If things are going great? Awesome! more to talk about on a second date.

But I've had way too many experiences in over investing in people who simply don't feel any chemistry with you, and won't develop any.

Why bother wasting people's time and money?  Meet, get a feel for each other.  Feel positive?  Awesome, line up a great second date.

Otherwise?  No harm done.  Go on with your life.

[cleverusername]

I'm a dude and I didn't realize other men had such an issue with cost, geez. I guess we should all just start walking to a pond and grabbing a cup of free water for the first date. 

Dating is supposed to be fun, not a business meeting or financial transaction. If you have fun, who cares about cost so long as its within reason? If you are worried about cost on the first date, you probably shouldn't be dating because spoiler alert; The entire dating process is an investment. Investment of time into each other, financial investment over the course of the process, emotional investment.... If you aren't ready to fully commit all three to the fullest than you are hurting you both. 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by cleverusername

[neowulf]

17 minutes ago, cleverusername said:

I'm a dude and I didn't realize other men had such an issue with cost, geez. I guess we should all just start walking to a pond and grabbing a cup of free water for the first date. 

Dating is supposed to be fun, not a business meeting or financial transaction. If you have fun, who cares about cost so long as its within reason? If you are worried about cost on the first date, you probably shouldn't be dating because spoiler alert; The entire dating process is an investment. Investment of time into each other, financial investment over the course of the process, emotional investment.... If you aren't ready to fully commit all three to the fullest than you are hurting you both. 

 

Out of interest friend, how many dates have you been on? And how long have you been single for?

Because you may find that the men on this thread that are complaining have been on strings of dates with zero progress.

That's normal.  That's the numbers game of dating.  It is perfectly normal to a promising date fall flat because there's zero chemistry. 

No ones against "investing".  It's about throwing money at dead ends early on, before you've established there's anything there to begin with.

But hey, it's your money.  If you want to take every first date out for a $50 dinner, more power to you.

I like to keep things low key, because; 

a) I don't want to place pressure on a stranger by locking them into an expensive first date. 

b) I don't like throwing money at people to try and "win" them over.

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by neowulf

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, cleverusername said:

I'm a dude and I didn't realize other men had such an issue with cost, geez. I guess we should all just start walking to a pond and grabbing a cup of free water for the first date. 

Dating is supposed to be fun, not a business meeting or financial transaction. If you have fun, who cares about cost so long as its within reason? If you are worried about cost on the first date, you probably shouldn't be dating because spoiler alert; The entire dating process is an investment. Investment of time into each other, financial investment over the course of the process, emotional investment.... If you aren't ready to fully commit all three to the fullest than you are hurting you both. 

 

Which one is it?  Full commitment, or within reason?

The fun of dating shouldn't be dependent upon how much money a man is expected to spend.  I do not see the point of spending a lot of money on a first date. 

If I really click with the girl and want to take her on a second date, and she feels exactly the same way, I have no problem with with spending more as I've done that on quite a few occasions.

The only time I'd consider spending money at a nice restaurant for a first date is if I already knew her and we met organically.  If it's someone from a dating app.... pfft!  Forget it!  Coffee it is!

Edited January 27, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[Ruby Slippers]

2 hours ago, cleverusername said:

I'm a dude and I didn't realize other men had such an issue with cost, geez. I guess we should all just start walking to a pond and grabbing a cup of free water for the first date. 

Dating is supposed to be fun, not a business meeting or financial transaction. If you have fun, who cares about cost so long as its within reason? If you are worried about cost on the first date, you probably shouldn't be dating because spoiler alert; The entire dating process is an investment. Investment of time into each other, financial investment over the course of the process, emotional investment.... If you aren't ready to fully commit all three to the fullest than you are hurting you both. 

 

lol love it. That's exactly what I said in the other never-ending thread - why not just meet on the corner and drink a glass of water together? LOL

[Trail Blazer]

13 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

lol love it. That's exactly what I said in the other never-ending thread - why not just meet on the corner and drink a glass of water together? LOL

Well, of course you "love it", you're a female!  You're the beneficiary of such arrangements!  You cannot lose because if the date is good, you didn't pay and got treated.  If the date is a bust, you still got treated to a nice meal on him!

I feel that there's a conflation of issues and it's because some women are refusing to acknowledge the reasons why guys want a low-investment first date and will instead judge him for it instead of trying to understand why.

It's been mentioned time and again that guys feel as though if they're the ones who always have to pay, it creates an environment where women with nefarious intentions are incentivized to date for the perks of getting treated, with no intention of actually seeing the guy again.

If guys are constantly paying, why should they be expected to fork out the cost of going to a reasonably nice restaurant when two people can just as easily establish a rapport over a cup of coffee?

I'm sorry, but any female who judges a man's choice to grab a coffee, or a quick drink at a local bar, is quite frankly selfish unless she intends on paying half.

It has nothing to do with if a guy is stingy or poor.  If a guy likes you on the first date because there's a connection, I gurantee you that he'll be happy to pay for a nice second date.  That's exactly how I am.  

If a woman proves to me why she's worth me invrsting in her, you can be guaranteed I will!  If she's a bust when we meet up, then I've not wasted money feeding a stranger I'll never see again. 

If she judges me for only getting a coffee because she felt entitled to an expensive meal on a first date, then my vetting process works fine.  The jokes on her as I can afford to take her somewhere nice, yet I wouldn't want to invest in someone who's selfish and superficial.

 

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

t has nothing to do with if a guy is stingy or poor. 

I think it may be everything to do with that actually. Add in bitter and jaded.
Grabbing quick coffees and wondering if they can get sex by the third date if not by the first, else it is a waste of time, is not the sign of a man most women want to get into a relationship with.
It may be an "efficient" way of filtering out the "no hopers" but how many good and decent women will be turned off by this conveyor belt system?
Dating should be fun, no wonder so many get burnt out.

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I think it may be everything to do with that actually. Add in bitter and jaded.
Grabbing quick coffees and wondering if they can get sex by the third date if not by the first, else it is a waste of time, is not the sign of a man most women want to get into a relationship with.
It may be an "efficient" way of filtering out the "no hopers" but how many good and decent women will be turned off by this conveyor belt system?
Dating should be fun, no wonder so many get burnt out.

Lol elaine, I'm literally telling you, as a guy, it has nothing to do with it!  At least not from the perspective of mine, and many other guys on here, who've echoed my sentiments.

I can assure you I am neither stingy, poor, bitter or jaded.  I wasn't going out looking for sex, or expecting sex.  I just bumbled along and took things as they came.  I didn't knock it back if it was forthcoming, though! 

And hey, I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out for me in the end!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "this conveyor belt system?"  If you're referring to my low-investment first date policy of simply grabbing a coffee and nothing more, I don't get where "good and decent women" would be turned off by it?

If anything, the good and decent women appreciate that a first date is a meet-up to guage interest and see if there's a bit of mutual attraction.

Dating certainly should be fun.  I've had many fun dates.  But the first dates I've been on haven't been super-exciting because they were just meeting at a coffee shop or the bar for a couple of drinks.

Rest assured, I never got any complaints, nor did I get one rejection for a second date.  I was the one who declined to offer a second or third date when I didn't feel like pursuing things further.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[peach302]

39 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Lol elaine, I'm literally telling you, as a guy, it has nothing to do with it!  At least not from the perspective of mine, and many other guys on here, who've echoed my sentiments.

I can assure you I am neither stingy, poor, bitter or jaded.  I wasn't going out looking for sex, or expecting sex.  I just bumbled along and took things as they came.  I didn't knock it back if it was forthcoming, though! 

And hey, I'm pretty happy with how things have turned out for me in the end!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "this conveyor belt system?"  If you're referring to my low-investment first date policy of simply grabbing a coffee and nothing more, I don't get where "good and decent women" would be turned off by it?

If anything, the good and decent women appreciate that a first date is a meet-up to guage interest and see if there's a bit of mutual attraction.

Dating certainly should be fun.  I've had many fun dates.  But the first dates I've been on haven't been super-exciting because they were just meeting at a coffee shop or the bar for a couple of drinks.

Rest assured, I never got any complaints, nor did I get one rejection for a second date.  I was the one who declined to offer a second or third date when I didn't feel like pursuing things further.

Those men who usually think like that are jaded/bitter though. Because theyre assuming all women want a free meal. Which isnt true.

[Trail Blazer]

8 minutes ago, peach302 said:

Those men who usually think like that are jaded/bitter though. Because theyre assuming all women want a free meal. Which isnt true.

I know that not all women want a free meal.  Some do, but the majority don't.  Still, I'm a realist and I know that most dates will be a bust because it can take a seriously long time to find someone we genuinely connect with.

With that being said, I really see no point in going all out on a first date.  Why should a guy pay upwards of $50 for dinner and drinks for a stranger he's recently connected with on a dating app, but never met in real life?

What's pertinent here is not that guys are stingy because they think every woman is out there to take advantage of him by eliciting a free meal out of him as though that's her sole modus operadi, thus being bitter and jaded... no! 

What it boils down to is that it's simply not worth investing so much on a first date because, chances are, it will be a bust, regardless of what establishment the first date took place at.

So, as far as I'm concerned, if a coffee date isn't good enough for a first date and I'm judged for being tight or stingy, then I've vetted out the women who I see as possessing character traits I want nothing to do with in a partner.

It's really simple; mature people who understand that a first date is there to establish whether there's mutual attraction  between two people are the people who understand and appreciate that the guy is probably not stingy, but is thinking along those same lines.

Conversely, a woman who focuses on how much money a man is willing to spend on her, a total stranger, on a first date, is focusing on the wrong things.  She's entitled, self-absorbed and superficial.

[Veronica73]

My first date with my ex-husband was completely free for him and it was really fun. He knew I had a dog so we met up at a local dog park and walked around and talked and threw a frisbee for my dog. (Also, she was a really entertaining dog...she made people laugh easily ❤️ )

I mean, I don't think first dates need to cost a lot. Or even anything. But....I also don't think they should feel like job interviews which they sometimes do. And when people, generally men, say things like they don't want to pay money for a date unless they are either going to get a second date or get sex.... It comes across as a little insulting. Maybe it shouldn't. But I feel like it's not the woman's fault they are dating tons of women. But at the same time, if you think spending money on dinner for me if you don't get sex or a second date out me is stupid....well....again, not really somebody I probably want to spend a lot of time with. I'm generous. I like generous people. I don't look at buying someone dinner as a big investment. 

[peach302]

4 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

My first date with my ex-husband was completely free for him and it was really fun. He knew I had a dog so we met up at a local dog park and walked around and talked and threw a frisbee for my dog. (Also, she was a really entertaining dog...she made people laugh easily ❤️ )

I mean, I don't think first dates need to cost a lot. Or even anything. But....I also don't think they should feel like job interviews which they sometimes do. And when people, generally men, say things like they don't want to pay money for a date unless they are either going to get a second date or get sex.... It comes across as a little insulting. Maybe it shouldn't. But I feel like it's not the woman's fault they are dating tons of women. But at the same time, if you think spending money on dinner for me if you don't get sex or a second date out me is stupid....well....again, not really somebody I probably want to spend a lot of time with. I'm generous. I like generous people. I don't look at buying someone dinner as a big investment. 

Exactly. It shows  generosity. 

When a man acts like it's the worst thing in the world to pay when they meet you for the first time..and by that  i mean making a huge fuss over it and bringing all their negative opinions to the foreground.

Im inclined to say next and won't feel bad doing so.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

I just bumbled along and took things as they came.

It's very unlikely that you or any other coffee date types and I would connect and be interested in each other on a dating app. I don't date men who bumble along in any way. They're focused, driven, and have a clear purpose - to find a good woman to build a lasting relationship with. They're pretty good at screening for good character before ever meeting. They don't see taking a woman on a decent first date as a burden. They've prioritized their career, being a provider, and understand that's part of the courtship process. The man always wants to extend the first date, take me to more places, spend more time with me, which results in spending more money. I always offer to chip in, and they always decline.

So you have fun on your coffee dates and I'll have fun on my lunch/dinner dates. Neither of us will ever convince the other to be different than we are.

[Trail Blazer]

12 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

It's very unlikely that you or any other coffee date types and I would connect and be interested in each other on a dating app. I don't date men who bumble along in any way. They're focused, driven, and have a clear purpose - to find a good woman to build a lasting relationship with. They're pretty good at screening for good character before ever meeting. They don't see taking a woman on a decent first date as a burden. They've prioritized their career, being a provider, and understand that's part of the courtship process. The man always wants to extend the first date, take me to more places, spend more time with me, which results in spending more money. I always offer to chip in, and they always decline.

So you have fun on your coffee dates and I'll have fun on my lunch/dinner dates. Neither of us will ever convince the other to be different than we are.

Well, you might want to help out the many disillusioned women on here who seemingly find it so difficult to connect with even one decent guy.  You, seemingly, have them falling at your feet.

I might add that the context in which the comment you quoted me was said in, was specifically about just using OLD, at the time period prior to meeting my girlfriend.  I'd just come out of a serious relationship, so I wasn't looking for anything serious.

Ironically, when I was not looking for anything in particular (you could say I had relationship burnout) I happened to meet the most amazing woman I've ever met.  Our first date?  Not a coffee shop, as they were all closed, but the local bar!

Needless to say, that first encounter was a low-cost, low-commitment success.  Where we were and how much was spent was totally irrelevant.  The second date, however, was a fancy affair - lunch at a winery.  

Hey, at the end of the day, you do you!  Whatever works.  I'll keep going to nice restaurants and wineries (Covid permitting) because I have that special someone who brings out the desire in me to spoil her.  Those same desires which are simply impossible for a total stranger to elicit from me.

[Veronica73]

But going out to lunch/dinner isn't really "spoiling" someone, is it? I mean, yeah, I guess if you are online dating and going out with tons of people. But as someone who only online dated for 2 weeks, and decided that it wasn't a good, or time-efficient way for me to meet people....I honestly don't want to date someone who isn't happy to buy me a meal unless he gets laid or gets a second date. 

Oh, another first date I have had- a picnic! He set the place (it wasn't a remote creepy place) and we both brought food and wine and we had a picnic. It was great! (Even though he brought aged, wrinkly grapes which turned me off a little. I felt like he just looked into his fridge and picked out something that was about to rot, lol!) But it was nice. And he made a whipped chèvre dip for the crackers. So it wasn't just wrinkly grapes, lol!

(Edit) And we kissed afterwards and we had a second date.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Veronica73

[Veronica73]

I don't think first dates need to be expensive, but I do think they should be fun and not feel like you are undergoing a job interview.

[peach302]

18 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Well, you might want to help out the many disillusioned women on here who seemingly find it so difficult to connect with even one decent guy.  You, seemingly, have them falling at your feet.

I might add that the context in which the comment you quoted me was said in, was specifically about just using OLD, at the time period prior to meeting my girlfriend.  I'd just come out of a serious relationship, so I wasn't looking for anything serious.

Ironically, when I was not looking for anything in particular (you could say I had relationship burnout) I happened to meet the most amazing woman I've ever met.  Our first date?  Not a coffee shop, as they were all closed, but the local bar!

Needless to say, that first encounter was a low-cost, low-commitment success.  Where we were and how much was spent was totally irrelevant.  The second date, however, was a fancy affair - lunch at a winery.  

Hey, at the end of the day, you do you!  Whatever works.  I'll keep going to nice restaurants and wineries (Covid permitting) because I have that special someone who brings out the desire in me to spoil her.  Those same desires which are simply impossible for a total stranger to elicit from me.

Decent men on OLD is rare. That's  a fact. You can see from womens experiences on here..

Calling women disillusioned  because they have high standards and don't jive with poor quality men..makes you sound bitter for whatever reason.

You should learn not to take things personally 

Edited January 27, 2021 by peach302

[Veronica73]

And also, the time spent on dinner is much more valuable to me than what a dinner costs. So I don't just go around dating whoever shows some interest. I want it to be fun and memorable and if somebody treats me like I have to past some test (like a job interview), or give him sex in order for him to spend time with me (or a small amount of money)....gross. Not everyone is relying on online dating and going out on lots of dates. And I would imagine the women who use men on online dating for free food is astonishingly small. 

[peach302]

4 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

And also, the time spent on dinner is much more valuable to me than what a dinner costs. So I don't just go around dating whoever shows some interest. I want it to be fun and memorable and if somebody treats me like I have to past some test (like a job interview), or give him sex in order for him to spend time with me (or a small amount of money)....gross. Not everyone is relying on online dating and going out on lots of dates. And I would imagine the women who use men on online dating for free food is astonishingly small. 

It is astonishingly small ( personally i dont know anyone who does that). I think its used as an excuse imho in order to avoid paying a single dime.

[cleverusername]

21 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

I don't think first dates need to be expensive, but I do think they should be fun and not feel like you are undergoing a job interview.

This. The first date IMO isn’t a resume check, it’s seeing if you connect and can enjoy each others company. 
 

The filtering process should start before even asking them on a date and the date should be a vibe check and expanding upon what you already know. If you are asking someone out purely because of looks, then you are going to get burned.

Thats probably why guys are so apprehensive to spend money and afraid to get burned. They aren’t proactively filtering.

If I get the sense you are a good person, I’ll ask you out. Because I already know you have a some compatibility as they said yes, I’m going to be looking to enjoy get to know you while having fun. Again, the process should be fun it’s not a business transaction. 

[FMW]

As always - it's about compatibility.  Seems like the first meet up or date is probably a great way of screening out people that you aren't going to mesh with, depending on how they handle the situation (who plans, who pays, where you go, what you do).

I can't relate to most of the posts by women on this subject.  If I went out with a guy who was directing and paying for everything I would be turned off.  I need a more laid back approach where we meet on equal ground and go from there.   

The guy I've been seeing for over a year is very considerate of my needs and wants and is very protective of me.  He's a pretty basic guy and enjoys simple things, and taking a woman out to a big dinner to impress her probably has never crossed his mind. And if I were the kind of woman that expected that I'm sure he wouldn't have any interest in me.  His net worth is about 10 times mine, and he's a very generous guy.  But from the beginning I've made a point of taking turns paying for things, and I certainly don't see his acceptance of my preference for that as a character flaw. 

So.... find someone who agrees with the same approach to dating that you have, and let everyone else be happy doing the same.  No need to trash people who don't meet your expectations, just don't go out with them.      

[Trail Blazer]

5 hours ago, peach302 said:

Decent men on OLD is rare. That's  a fact. You can see from womens experiences on here..

Calling women disillusioned  because they have high standards and don't jive with poor quality men..makes you sound bitter for whatever reason.

You should learn not to take things personally 

You clearly have zero understanding of what I just said.  Or you're simply trolling.  It kind of feels like the latter, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain.

It's absolutely a fact that good men are seemingly hard to find on OLD.  It would stand to reason that because of this fact, many women who've only experienced negative outcomes using OLD platforms would feel disillusioned.

So, how on earth could I possibly be bitter about that fact?  Or taking anything (what?) personally?  I actually feel bad for the women who've only ever met douchebags.

[peach302]

24 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

You clearly have zero understanding of what I just said.  Or you're simply trolling.  It kind of feels like the latter, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain.

It's absolutely a fact that good men are seemingly hard to find on OLD.  It would stand to reason that because of this fact, many women who've only experienced negative outcomes using OLD platforms would feel disillusioned.

So, how on earth could I possibly be bitter about that fact?  Or taking anything (what?) personally?  I actually feel bad for the women who've only ever met douchebags.

Your previous posts seemed to have that stance.

How women are entitled when they want to be treated on a first meet and how there's no way in hell you or any man should do that because a lot of women want to use men etc etc.

Having a different approach to you doesn't make me a troll. Maybe try to be accepting of what others say 😂🤔

[basil67]

6 hours ago, peach302 said:

It is astonishingly small ( personally i dont know anyone who does that). I think its used as an excuse imho in order to avoid paying a single dime.

Is it astonishingly small?   There seem to be plenty of women here who date as a pastime and not because they're looking for a partner.   Women who do this should not be accepting a man paying for them in good faith.

Edited January 27, 2021 by basil67

[trident_2020]

36 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

You clearly have zero understanding of what I just said.  Or you're simply trolling.  It kind of feels like the latter, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain.

 So, how on earth could I possibly be bitter about that fact?  Or taking anything (what?) personally?  I actually feel bad for the women who've only ever met douchebags.

Yeah her response didn't address what you said in your post. Had me shaking my head there for a minute and then I realized there was nothing to make sense of.

It was the typical non-sequitur.