Shouldn't be dating if one can't afford it. a gentleman doesn't mind feeding a lady.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

1 hour ago, Shining One said:

Sex happens naturally over the course of dating. Sometimes it occurs before I make a final decision about her. For example, we could have sex on the third date, but I don't decide to end things until date five. I have to be "sure" about a woman before I commit to her. I don't have to be "sure" in order to sleep with her.

Isn't getting a free meal at someone else's expense getting something for nothing?

Interesting. Do you let these women know that you're unsure about them, before sleeping with them? Or are they under the impression things are progressing?

It's not a free meal. The woman has usually gotten all dolled up (because then the complaint would be she's not attractive enough), and is spending time with you. That you would let her go home hungry is pretty harsh.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

If I were a man and a woman had the attitude that I shouldn't be dating if I can't afford to buy her a meal; I would have the idea that she shouldn't accept my meal without giving me sex.  Fair exchange is no robbery.

Just to be clear, it's not only not being able to afford a (modest) meal that's the issue, it's also the lack of manners. That's not the way to treat a woman.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

51 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're right. If he's driving you should reimburse him for the oil change, car wash, etc to get his car dolled up for the date. 🚗⛽ Now if he looks nice you'll have to add the hair cut, after shave, etc to that.

Kidding. Try not to allow dating to become a supermarket transaction. 🛒

Haha. I would have a hard time determining who is the feminine one, and who is the masculine one.

[Ruby Slippers]

Not this old topic AGAIN. There used to be a very loooooong sticky thread about paying for dates. Generally, nobody changes their mind on the subject, just keep going in circles.

[stillafool]

29 minutes ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

Just to be clear, it's not only not being able to afford a (modest) meal that's the issue, it's also the lack of manners. That's not the way to treat a woman.

Nor is it a way to treat a man to say that they shouldn't date if they can't afford it.  Not very nice at all.  What makes women so special?

[Shining One]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

Interesting. Do you let these women know that you're unsure about them, before sleeping with them?

No, I don't. Do you warn men you are unsure about them before they spend money on you? Providing "warnings" is not standard practice in dating.

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

It's not a free meal. The woman has usually gotten all dolled up (because then the complaint would be she's not attractive enough), and is spending time with you.

I'm spending time with her as well. I'll concede that she typically spends more time getting ready than I do.

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

That you would let her go home hungry is pretty harsh.

Just like a woman letting me go home sexually unfulfilled is "harsh".

[poppyfields]

I read something on another thread about how men feel value by spreading their seed (having sex) with as many women as possible.  That it’s a biological thing.

I suppose it’s the same for some women, feeling value by having men pay, men being the providers, the protectors.  No rhyme or reason, it’s biological going back to caveman days when men provided and protected their mates and even before that.

Many women including myself feel it’s hot when a man pays in the initial stages.  I never could figure out why, until I read the post about men needing to spread their seed.  Men paying is the same premise manifested differently due to gender conditioning, and differing biological natures.

It simply attracted me to him, made me feel valued, assuming the chemistry/energy was there, perhaps the same way men feel when a woman desires him sexually and has sex with him.

Two sides of the same coin I suppose.

Plus, it's simply a nice thing to do especially since he invited her out.

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[GeorgiaPeach1]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Not this old topic AGAIN. There used to be a very loooooong sticky thread about paying for dates. Generally, nobody changes their mind on the subject, just keep going in circles.

I am not the one who created this thread. I made a comment in another thread, and the mods decided to make it a topic in it's own thread. The best thing to do is to keep scrolling if you're tired of a particular topic. That's what I do.

[poppyfields]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I read something on another thread about how men feel value by spreading their seed (having sex) with as many women as possible.  That it’s a biological thing.

I suppose it’s the same for some women, feeling value by having men pay, men being the providers, the protectors.  No rhyme or reason, it’s biological going back to caveman days when men provided and protected their mates and even before that.

Many women including myself feel it’s hot when a man pays in the initial stages.  I never could figure out why, until I read the post about men needing to spread their seed.  Men paying is the same premise manifested differently due to gender conditioning, and differing biological natures.

It simply attracted me to him, made me feel valued, assuming the chemistry/energy was there, perhaps the same way men feel when a woman desires him sexually and has sex with him.

Two sides of the same coin I suppose.

Plus, it's simply a nice thing to do especially since he invited her out.

To add, if the energy/chemistry is not there and I have no intention of seeing him again, I will offer to pay.   It only makes me feel valued when I am into him.

Most times, they never allowed me to pay, in fact a few times they  became downright insulted!  I still always offered though.  I never felt comfortable with a man paying knowing I don't plan on seeing him again.

@GeorgiaPeach1, I am wondering how you feel about that.   When you know you're not into him and won't be seeing him again, do you still feel comfortable with him paying?

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[mark clemson]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:26 AM, cleverusername said:

That awkward moment when you go to pay and she says, "We're friends, I don't need you to pay"

That awkward moment at the start of the evening when you realize there's no way you'd date OR sleep with her, and have to tell her in person you're cancelling the date.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

I suppose it’s the same for some women, feeling value by having men pay, men being the providers, the protectors. 

Yes, women are wired to be turned on by signals of male investment, and turned off by signals of cheapness. The first date is the man's first opportunity to give her an indication of how much he's willing to invest, how he rates her value in his life. A woman who wants to get married and raise a family or build a meaningful life with a man is going to feel meh about a coffee date, and hopeful about a nice lunch or dinner date. It's always been clear to me that serious, smart, quality men understand this.

[Shining One]

It's been clear to me that serious, smart, quality women approach dating with a balanced "give" and "take" early on.

[poppyfields]

15 minutes ago, Shining One said:

It's been clear to me that serious, smart, quality women approach dating with a balanced "give" and "take" early on.

True, women "give back" in other numerous ways to make a man feel valued (see my previous post  )

Shining, what you are failing to understand is the biological element, similar to the biological element involved re men spreading their seed.

It's not something we (or many women) have any control over, it's nature. 

It turns us on.  Yin/yang.  Masculine/feminine.  Mars/Venus.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Shining One]

11 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

True, women "give back" in other numerous ways to make a man feel valued (see my previous post  )

Can you provide an example? I'm not seeing any actions in your previous post.

11 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Shining, what you are failing to understand is the biological element, similar to the biological element involved re men spreading their seed.

It's not something we (or many women) have any control over, it's nature.

I understand the attraction quite well. However, there is a difference between "I find an action attractive" and "my affection for you is contingent upon you doing a specific action". I doubt any woman would tolerate it if my affection for her were contingent upon her scrubbing my bathroom or doing my laundry.

[Ruby Slippers]

29 minutes ago, Shining One said:

It's been clear to me that serious, smart, quality women approach dating with a balanced "give" and "take" early on.

I agree. My last boyfriend offered to drive to my neighborhood in the 'burbs and asked if I'd mind picking a restaurant. I picked a simple, affordable neighborhood family restaurant. I also offered to split the bill, which he declined.

He told me later that I really impressed him because I was the only woman from a dating site who ever offered to split the bill, and the only one who didn't ask him to take her to an expensive restaurant for the first date. 

After brunch, he invited me to the movies and then for drinks. It turned into an all-day date and he paid for everything, despite me offering to pitch in at every location.

[cleverusername]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

That awkward moment at the start of the evening when you realize there's no way you'd date OR sleep with her, and have to tell her in person you're cancelling the date.

If I'm meeting someone I am not sure about looks wise, I always have a friend call me at a preset time that way I had an emergency and have an excuse to leave.

[poppyfields]

22 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Can you provide an example? I'm not seeing any actions in your previous post.

I understand the attraction quite well. However, there is a difference between "I find an action attractive" and "my affection for you is contingent upon you doing a specific action". I doubt any woman would tolerate it if my affection for her were contingent upon her scrubbing my bathroom or doing my laundry.

Cooking him a lovely dinner would be one way to give back.  I am not a great fan of cooking so all my boyfriends have really appreciated that!   Or surprising him with tickets to a Giants game or any sporting event he's a fan of.   Or when the time comes, giving him the best sex of his life!!   By virtue of how utterly attracted to him I am. 😂

Or simply appreciating him, when he takes me out, or any other effort he makes to show how much he values me.

Once a relationship has been established, then the paying becomes more reciprocal although all my boyfriends have still paid most of the time.

I can't say why this is such an issue for you or other men, I can only suspect that you've been burned by a few gold-digging women who didn't appreciate your efforts, and as a result you're overly sensitive to being "used" for your wallet.

But hey, if it works for you, then who am I too judge.  

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Shining One]

Quality is determined by actions, not words. I paid for the first date with my last girlfriend. She came home with me that night. A week or so later, we went on our second date. She paid for it (no discussion, she simply did it). We went back to her place afterwards. Notice how her sexual attraction to me was not diminished by paying for both of our dinners. That's a quality woman!

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I can't say why this is such an issue for you or other men, I can only suspect that you've been burned by a few gold-digging women who didn't appreciate your efforts, and as a result you're overly sensitive to being "used" for your wallet.

That's certainly part of it. I do have a history of bad experiences. The other part would be that the egalitarian women I've met over the years (some friends, some more than friends) have raised the bar considerably. Those women are very hard to find, but they're the only ones worth it to me for the long run.

[cleverusername]

6 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Cooking him a lovely dinner would be one way to give back.  I am not a great fan of cooking so all my boyfriends have really appreciated that!   Or surprising him with tickets to a Giants game or any sporting event he's a fan of.   Or when the time comes, giving him the best sex of his life!!   By virtue of how utterly attracted to him I am. 😂

Or simply appreciating him, when he takes me out, or any other effort he makes to show how much he values me.

Once a relationship has been established, then the paying becomes more reciprocal although all my boyfriends have still paid most of the time.

I can't say why this is such an issue for you or other men, I can only suspect that you've been burned by a few gold-digging women who didn't appreciate your efforts, and as a result you're overly sensitive to being "used" for your wallet.

But hey, if it works for you, then who am I too judge.  

 

Men like to talk about how much they would LOVE a woman to take charge and how much they would LOVE a role reversal, and how there is a double standard. Spoiler alert; its not that great. Especially when you are set into the traditional gender roles of each other and it changes. I have so much more respect for the position of women after being the one pursued and having the positions reversed.  I guarantee if it happened as much as men complain about it, there would be a thread every other day asking for advice.  

[trident_2020]

5 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

A woman SHOULD have the option of being a stay-home wife and mother, if that's what she and her husband think is best.

A woman SHOULD have the option of paying for the first date if that's what she and her potential dating partner think is best.

 

 

[poppyfields]

19 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Quality is determined by actions, not words. I paid for the first date with my last girlfriend. She came home with me that night. A week or so later, we went on our second date. She paid for it (no discussion, she simply did it). We went back to her place afterwards. Notice how her sexual attraction to me was not diminished by paying for both of our dinners. That's a quality woman!

I have no doubt she was (is) a quality women but her quality wasn't determined because she paid for the second date.  Perhaps to you it was and that is your prerogative, but Ruby Slippers and I (and I am sure other women on this forum who feel as we do) are considered high quality by the men we date for different reasons.

I don't know why you so harshly judge women for being turned on by a man paying, as I said it's not something women have any control over, it's biological as explained previously.  It just turns me on, what can I say?  Assuming the chemistry/energy was there to begin with.  Not all women obviously and that's fine.

Like I said, if I am not attracted, I will offer to pay.  In that instance him paying does nothing for me.

I am glad you have found women who share your mindset, that's really all that matters at the end of the day.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[cleverusername]

12 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

A woman SHOULD have the option of paying for the first date if that's what she and her potential dating partner think is best.

 

 

This kinda goes with my above post; but when cleverusername was a young lad he got asked to prom by a girl. It was completely out of left field, as normally men are the ones who do the asking (and in broader dating terms pursuing in the real world). Long story short, I said yes but only to not be an a**h***. Point being, make sure the guy likes you and its not a cold approach type deal,  and same for men with women. Just because you have boobs and vagina doesn't automatically make anything you do flattering or desired. Just because you think a as a woman you should pay, doesn't mean letting him pay your value starts lower in the mans eyes. Or if a woman doesn't pay its because she is a freeloader. Gender roles are more ingrained and stronger than you think, but its not always a bad thing. If you have to pay and it costs you $150 for the first few dates to find a suitable wife and mother of your children to spend life with, its worth it IMO. Totally agree with you, whatever they BOTH think is best.

Yes, I'm still salty about it. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by cleverusername

[Shining One]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

I have no doubt she was a quality women but her quality wasn't determined because she paid for the second date.  Perhaps to you it was and that is your prerogative, but Ruby Slippers and I (and I am sure other women on this forum who feel as we do) are considered high quality by the men we date for different reasons.

I brought up quality in response to someone else bringing up quality. From the context, I gathered that a quality person does "more", so that's how I used the term.

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I don't know why you so harshly judge women for being turned on by a man paying, as I said it's not something women have any control over, it's biological as explained previously.  It just turns me on, what can I say? 

As I said earlier, there's a difference between finding an action attractive and making one's affection contingent upon that action. I do not harshly judge the former.

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, Shining One said:

As I said earlier, there's a difference between finding an action attractive and making one's affection contingent upon that action. I do not harshly judge the former.

I don't mean to sound rude, but please read my posts. 

Bolded - I said numerous times my attraction must already be there prior to him paying for other reasons (our energy/chemistry being the biggest one initially). 

It is NOT "contingent upon" him paying.  Every single man I've gone out with has offered to pay, and I have only felt attraction for a very few and in most cases we've gone on to date.

Again, when I am not attracted, I offer to pay.  Him paying does nothing for me in that instance.

Comprendre?

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Shining One]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I don't mean to sound rude, but please read my posts.

Nowhere did I imply that you fell into the latter category. I brought up the difference to highlight where the line is for me.