Race and standards of beauty

[Ollie180]

3 minutes ago, Piddy said:

Let's not forgot that for years black male actors weren't given leads in movies. 

Black men (or women) not being given the same opportunities with the entertainment industry... is a big problem!!

if some girl dates white guys because she’s afraid of the backlash of dating a black guy.... it’s a big problem!!

If some girl has a preference for dating white guys, because she’s attracted to them... her choice!

[Ollie180]

Just now, Emilie Jolie said:

People are different, and they arrive at their dating preferences differently.

Exactly!
And they should be allowed to

They should be allowed they’re own preference without fear of being labelled racist, or sexist or whatever

We cannot assume people are naive or uncultured, or ‘live in a bubble’ for having a preference that they have! We actually have very little hard data that truthfully gives reason to what triggers people personal dating preference or personal sexual attraction to others!

[alphamale]

to date and to marry a desirable white female a black or brown man has to be making 10x the money of his white counterpart/competition

women like a man with resources, like always

Edited June 11, 2020 by alphamale

[Emilie Jolie]

@Ollie180, some people are racist (of course, not on LS, everyone is awesome and perfect and such 😛). You can't dismiss that because you personally are not.  

Thing is, having a 'type' isn't necessarily a good thing even if you're not racist; could be you are stuck in your views or haven't moved on from a certain partner or whatever. 

[rjc149]

But is it racist for someone to say "I only date whites" or "I don't find [race] attractive?"

There was an entertaining thread here a few weeks back by a 37-year old black virgin who only wanted to date white women. All other races were ruled out. And I wondered, is this guy getting a pass because he's black, or is this something that requires a "pass" at all? I mean, he's entitled to his personal preference, after all. 

We all have physical preferences, but when that extends to a race being a 'box' that must be checked, is that problematic?

 

 

[5x5]

10 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

I’ve heard of maybe 2 or 3 of those names, and I meant pairings on screen.

And I’m not saying that doesn’t exist. It’s just very uncommon.

Stop watching Friends and the Bachelor.

a. Because mind numbingly lame.

b. Because there is a whole world out there that isn't always what you think it is.

Try watching better quality films and TV shows.

Even Dr Who has Micky Smith (Noel Clarke) and Rose Tyler (Billie Piper).

Then there's the following amongst many, many others.

Luke Bankole (O T Fagbenle) & Offred (Elisabeth Moss) in The Handmaid's Tale.

Remy Danton (Mahershala Ali) & Jackie Sharp (Molly Parker) in House of Cards.

Othello  (Laurence Fishburne) & Desdemona (Irène Jacob) in the 1995 film Othello.

Quincy (Rainbow Sun Francks) & Gia (Gabriella de la Torre) in the film How To Fall.

 

[alphamale]

13 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

But is it racist for someone to say "I only date whites" or "I don't find [race] attractive?"

 

 

 

no, that is not racist.  it is just human nature.  most people like people who look like they do

Edited June 11, 2020 by alphamale

[stillafool]

10 hours ago, enigma32 said:

When I was dating/talking to a black girl years ago, her family hated the fact that she preferred white guys and they gave her crap for it. That sort of thing just happens. I'm at the point now where even if things didn't work out with my current GF, I would most likely date Filipino women exclusively. I would just consider it an individual preference that goes beyond a basic standard. 

This is true.  Black families generally have no problem with their sons dating other races but all hell breaks loose when the daughters do it.

[Piddy]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/501932-merriam-webster-agrees-to-update-definition-of-racism-after

Merriam and Webster is going to change their definition of racism because of an email by a black woman.

"Merriam-Webster has agreed to update its definition of “racism” after a reader emailed editors requesting the entry be expanded to address its systemic aspects.

Kennedy Mitchum, 22, of Florissant, Mo. a recent graduate of Drake University, told St. Louis TV station KMOV4 that she would get into arguments with people who pointed to the definition of racism to support their position.

Merriam-Webster’s currently defines racism as "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

“I basically told them they need to include that there is systematic oppression on people. It's not just 'I don't like someone,' it's a system of oppression for a certain group of people," Mitchum added."

[FMW]

Four of the couples in my friend circle consist of mixed races.  They have all dated people of their own race as well, so I don't think race is a "type" that informed their attraction.  They seem to be based on the same things most relationships are, common views and values.      

[alphamale]

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is true.  Black families generally have no problem with their sons dating other races but all hell breaks loose when the daughters do it.

we must remember that even within races there are preferences.  black men prefer to date/marry their lighter skinned black females were as darker skinned black females are relegated to the back burner.  in east indian culture the whiter the man/woman is the more suitors he/she will have.  so basically everyone is racist to some extent.

[rjc149]

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Stop watching Friends and the Bachelor.

a. Because mind numbingly lame.

b. Because there is a whole world out there that isn't always what you think it is.

Try watching better quality films and TV shows.

Even Dr Who has Micky Smith (Noel Clarke) and Rose Tyler (Billie Piper).

Then there's the following amongst many, many others.

Luke Bankole (O T Fagbenle) & Offred (Elisabeth Moss) in The Handmaid's Tale.

Remy Danton (Mahershala Ali) & Jackie Sharp (Molly Parker) in House of Cards.

Othello  (Laurence Fishburne) & Desdemona (Irène Jacob) in the 1995 film Othello.

Quincy (Rainbow Sun Francks) & Gia (Gabriella de la Torre) in the film How To Fall.

 

Well I clearly don't have the time or the culture to delve into the arcana of film entertainment and list every exception to the whiteM/[race]F on-screen pairings since the dawn of film (and I think the fact that you are able to do so in 2 forum posts only further illustrates my point). 

I'm a regular Joe like 99% of Americans who watch TV or go to the movies. 99% of Americans watch Friends. And the Bachelor. And dumbass movies like The Last Samurai where the Tom Cruise kills the Asian guy then f--ks his Asian wife, thereby becoming the last samurai. We're not watching Cannes film festival shorts over wine and Brie cheese over here. This is mainstream media consumption going back many, many decades. It's impact on our culture doesn't get so easily undone. Although it's encouraging to see that trend growing.  

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, Ellener said:

It is interesting, nobody says to me 'are you still seeing that white guy?' but I've been asked 'are you still seeing that black guy?'

 

Well if you're white they aren't going to ask if you're still seeing that white guy unless he's the only white one out of the bunch you're dating.  I don't think it's racist to ask if you're still seeing the black guy.   

[Zona]

Here's what I think. Online dating works mostly for good looking people because looks and other physical characteristics are front and center in the profile and the first thing you notice. However, if you meet a woman in person, you may be able to win her over with your personality, charm, sense of humor, etc., especially if you are a reliable person with a good career. In that sense I think what women find "attractive" is somewhat fluid, and that applies to ethnicity too.

The other thing is that when women are ovulating, most tend to be attracted to "alpha males". Guys who are bigger, stronger, better symmetry, more confident, etc.

My advice to guys who are relying on online dating, and who are frustrated by the seeming pickiness of women, is to try to put yourself in situations where you can meet single women in person.  There are always lots of attractive single women out there who have great personalities, and want to badly to be a wife/mother. Probably in today's culture, most of those would be women in their late 20's and 30's. Younger women tend to be focused on career and education, rather than marriage and children.

[Weezy1973]

I think I remember a study from OK Cupid about this, and the conclusion was basically that in general people prefer their own race. In terms of interracial preferences, white men and Asian women tended to respectively be the most popular, whereas black women and Asian men were the least popular. 
 

But I don’t think explicit racism is the reason. Cultural norms however probably are, and they might have elements of racism in them. People have mentioned Hollywood standards for example. I challenge people to check out the local magazine rack and see if the people on the covers are largely the same race. As far as I can tell, they are.

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, alphamale said:

we must remember that even within races there are preferences.  black men prefer to date/marry their lighter skinned black females were as darker skinned black females are relegated to the back burner.  in east indian culture the whiter the man/woman is the more suitors he/she will have.  so basically everyone is racist to some extent.

Yes it used to be that way in the black community but now that there are so many biracial black people lighter skin has become common and darker skinned women are more rare.  So what is rare is becoming more desirable.  I am a light skinned black woman who has always wanted to be coffee brown.  It's so beautiful and ages so well.

[5x5]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Yes it used to be that way in the black community but now that there are so many biracial black people lighter skin has become common and darker skinned women are more rare.  So what is rare is becoming more desirable.  I am a light skinned black woman who has always wanted to be coffee brown.  It's so beautiful and ages so well.

My ex-wife is a light skinned black woman (our daughter together is white), while my ex-wife's sister is a dark skinned black woman. I thought they both looked lovely as they were.

[chillii]

1 hour ago, rjc149 said:

You mean white zivilege? 

I think a broader and more profound question to be posed here is: is having racial dating preferences a form of racism? 

As l said in my first post , anything can and will be twisted into anything and there's always the exception in anything , but we like whatever we like mostly call it whatever you want. And there'd be nothing wrong with it even if it was because he or she didn't like some race or another , countries tribes races neighbours have hated each other and fought for 1000s of yrs , and still do to this day.

[Emilie Jolie]

36 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

"I only date whites" or "I don't find [race] attractive?"

Not consciously or actively racist necessarily, but socially conditioned yes. If someone can say that with a straight face without checking themselves (certainly the 2nd question) or having an cast iron, genuinely valid explanation (I've never been exposed to multiculturalism, I have a specific sexual fetish, I have residual baggage from previous relationships that I haven't been able to break, I want to date the opposite of my parents / some sort of unresolved or unconscious childhood trauma) it's not a great sign, from my perspective. 

 

[Ollie180]

57 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

@Ollie180, some people are racist (of course, not on LS, everyone is awesome and perfect and such 😛). You can't dismiss that because you personally are not.  

I haven’t dismissed that. You can not date outside your race because you are racist but not dating outside your race alone does not MAKE you racist!

people get caught up and forget the difference between those things!

59 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Thing is, having a 'type' isn't necessarily a good thing even if you're not racist; could be you are stuck in your views or haven't moved on from a certain partner or whatever. 

It could, for a small percentage of folk. Or it could just be what you’re attracted to, probably true for the majority!

(Or else I’m still dating a white woman at 35 because.. I’m pining after the first (White) girl I kissed at 9 years old behind the school bike shelter)! and I’ll say it again, I grew up in Central  London within a real mixing pot of diversity.. but I still fancied Caucasians at 9 years old!! 

Over analysing is simply looking too hard for a problem! You look too hard for a problem = you’ll find a problem 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Ollie180]

57 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

But is it racist for someone to say "I only date whites" or "I don't find [race] attractive?"

The statement - yeah! Because it suggest someone has a hard and fast rule against rating anyone else from another race!

However if someone simply chooses for their whole life to date people of one race then that’s their free choice! The free choice that we all have when we choose who to date!
 

8 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Not consciously or actively racist necessarily, but socially conditioned yes.

In some cases! ... sorry, I just totally don’t agree 🤷🏼‍♂️ I don’t see how there’s anyway anyone can assume to know why someone else chooses or is attracted to a certain person - or race! Unless you’ve lived their life, and seen the world through their eyes, how can anyone assume someone else has been ‘social conditioned’

 

But hey ho, agree to disagree - live and let live an all 😜

[Ollie180]

51 minutes ago, alphamale said:

no, that is not racist.  it is just human nature.  most people like people who look like they do

Some of it is nature full stop.. ‘positive sexual imprinting’ fish, birds and mammals are all more likely to pick a partner that somewhat resembles their parent! ...weird but true

[Ruby Slippers]

Also, I can't remember the exact figure, but something like 95% of CEOs are white males 6'2 or taller. This is slowly starting to change, but it was that way for a long, long time.

[Emilie Jolie]

21 minutes ago, Ollie180 said:

In some cases! ... sorry, I just totally don’t agree 🤷🏼‍♂️ I don’t see how there’s anyway anyone can assume to know why someone else chooses or is attracted to a certain person - or race! Unless you’ve lived their life, and seen the world through their eyes, how can anyone assume someone else has been ‘social conditioned’

 

I've made your bolded point repeatedly in my posts already, Ollie - maybe read them and double check? Not sure we're in disagreement.

As far the the rest, you can't. That's why they are concepts not to be taken personally. 😏 For some reason, people always think these concepts are directed at them only. 🙄

Edited June 11, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[stillafool]

I don't think it's racist to have a type that turns you on.  If white skin blows you hair back go for it.  If black, tan, or yellow skin is your thang then go for it.  Some people like long hair, some like short.  Some like tall women others  prefer short ones.  Some like big beautiful women others prefer skinny beautiful women.  Who cares?  I don't think it makes a person racist to have a preference.