do you just eventually give up?

[poppyfields]

Hey ZA, just found this thread, and to my own dismay, I've read all the posts.  

Anyway, one thing that hasn't been discussed (apologies if it has but I missed it) is energy.

You asked what making a "connection" is and feels like, it's that - a mutual "energy"/chemistry generating between "both" people and when that energy is real and genuine versus based on the superficial, it has zero to do with looks.

Not saying physical attraction isn't important but attraction is subjective and it does NOT trump having a great energy. 

THAT is why you are unable to get to the second date, your energy is crap (sorry), it may be the worst case of negative self-defeating energy I've ever come across.

You are your own worst enemy, you have a defeatist attitude, which won't take you very far, with women or in life.

Assuming you met on line and you had pic, if it were your face or looks that women rejected you for,  they wouldn't have bothered meeting you at all.

It's your vibe mate, the energy you put forth, which you and most people aren't even aware of.  

But that's it, and somehow you need to change it, cause trust me, women can sense negative energy a mile away, and it's a huge turn off, more than appearance even.  Believe me when I say that.

May I ask how old you are?  I "went through the motions" in my dating experiences until late 20s, when I met a man who literally knocked my socks off.

It wasn't his looks, I had met men classically better looking than him, but when we met, the energy was powerful, and we dated for many years.  And because of our strong connection/energy/attraction, to me he was the BEST looking guy ever!  

So give it time, and take steps to improve your energy, your self-esteem.

You just gotta start feeling better about yourself mate, start liking yourself, otherwise no one else will either, including the ladies. 

All the best. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[ZA Dater]

49 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

 

You are your own worst enemy, you have a defeatist attitude, which won't take you very far, with women or in life.

Assuming you met on line and you had pic, if it were your face or looks that women rejected you for,  they wouldn't have bothered meeting you at all.

It's your vibe mate, the energy you put forth, which you and most people aren't even aware of.  

But that's it, and somehow you need to change it, cause trust me, women can sense negative energy a mile away, and it's a huge turn off, more than appearance even.  Believe me when I say that.

May I ask how old you are?  I "went through the motions" in my dating experiences until late 20s, when I met a man who literally knocked my socks off.

It wasn't his looks, I had met men classically better looking than him, but when we met, the energy was powerful, and we dated for many years.  And because of our strong connection/energy/attraction, to me he was the BEST looking guy ever!  

So give it time, and take steps to improve your energy, your self-esteem.

You just gotta start feeling better about yourself mate, start liking yourself, otherwise no one else will either, including the ladies. 

All the best. 

I'll be 36 in roughly two weeks.

Perhaps I need to also point out that in say 20 matches perhaps 1 is of interest to me in terms of physical and intellectual attraction. Actually you may be surprised I am not defeatist at all when it comes to grafting and grinding out a good result when it comes to work, partly because I measure progress. I cant measure progress at dating so I have no idea if I am better at it not than I was 10 years ago, the results suggest not. So basically all I can look at are the results which are all poor.

It probably wont surprise you to know I have no idea what vibe is in the dating context. If being realistic is negative then honestly so be it, if calling it how it see it is negative, again so be it. As I say I go to dates with a positive but realistic mind set, I have had no success who why would this date or any other date be any different, I need to basically try and get any sort of attention out of these people, again for what purpose? I have no idea why people meet me, I do know that exceedingly few I actually find attractive ever meet me or match with me.

Maybe me purpose in life is different, maybe I am just here to help others be that pillar I suppose, that problem solver and that dependable guy.

I live in a realistic world, why would anyone date a shy, sometimes awkward 36yo virgin?

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Fair said:

All I can say is, online dating, if done long enough, will make you want to commit suicide. That's a joke, but seriously, it is NOT GOOD FOR YOUR MENTAL HEALTH. Rather like Facebook. 

There must be someone in real life who could introduce you to someone...  I think real life is still the best way to go.

You probably are quite correct, unfortunately it is all I have to work with. I have been on OLD for probably 15 years already.

The thing that always strikes me most when I go out is I never actually see guys trying to charm ladies in places like book shops, stores and other public places. However, when I got to clubs and bars, alcohol is involved and then it would seem it is rather easier. Which is great if you drink and not so great if you don't.

The other fundamental issue with public is you cannot mostly ever tell if someone is single and when like me you are shy its simply just better to look.

I cant knock clubs and bars because it would seem they work well for probably the majority of people. I don't really have a friend network so cant meet anyone like that and well everything else I do is devoid of people my age and the rest is work. So no there really isn't any other opportunity to meet people.

What I would like I guess is a fresh perspective,  wipe away all the past and start afresh but the logical part of me cant over look my age, cant over look my inexperience and cant overlook the fact that most women don't seem to desire a guy like me and none of the ones I end up liking ever do.

The one thing dating has taught me is to build people up, make them feel good, believe in them because mostly when it comes to dating I am thrown away like trash and that's not a nice feeling.

I agree a lot of people meet via mutual friends, there seems to be some success like that but for me that avenue is closed and when it were open there was always better guys for them and I was the project guy who got sort of half hearted "well give him some attention to make him feel good" but always stopped short of actually being helpful.

[NuevoYorko]

I don't know any adults who date because of expectations of friends and family members.  That might be something you should address.  If you don't want to date, don't.  Plenty of people choose not to.

[Foxhall]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I live in a realistic world, why would anyone date a shy, sometimes awkward 36yo virgin?

you never know, some women actually might find this charming in a certain way, even highly attractive ones,

there seems to be a lack of connecting for you on most of the dates you go on, maybe if you switched your approach in the sense of seeking out quieter more introverted types of women, you may find them personality types easier to connect with,

just a thought.

 

[poppyfields]

I think simply being open to the idea of making a connection would be a huge help to you. 

I mean, why bother dating at all if you're convinced it's doomed before even meeting?  Doesn't make much sense, does it?

You don't have to date ZA, perhaps your purpose during your time is something else, helping others as you said earlier. 

Forget dating, focus on giving, helping others.

It's a fact doing so generates positive energy within yourself and raises one's self esteem as well.

A win win! 

Dating brings you down, forget that. At least for now. 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by poppyfields

[chillii]

5 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Hey ZA, just found this thread, and to my own dismay, I've read all the posts.  

Anyway, one thing that hasn't been discussed (apologies if it has but I missed it) is energy.

You asked what making a "connection" is and feels like, it's that - a mutual "energy"/chemistry generating between "both" people and when that energy is real and genuine versus based on the superficial, it has zero to do with looks.

Not saying physical attraction isn't important but attraction is subjective and it does NOT trump having a great energy. 

THAT is why you are unable to get to the second date, your energy is crap (sorry), it may be the worst case of negative self-defeating energy I've ever come across.

You are your own worst enemy, you have a defeatist attitude, which won't take you very far, with women or in life.

Assuming you met on line and you had pic, if it were your face or looks that women rejected you for,  they wouldn't have bothered meeting you at all.

It's your vibe mate, the energy you put forth, which you and most people aren't even aware of.  

But that's it, and somehow you need to change it, cause trust me, women can sense negative energy a mile away, and it's a huge turn off, more than appearance even.  Believe me when I say that.

May I ask how old you are?  I "went through the motions" in my dating experiences until late 20s, when I met a man who literally knocked my socks off.

It wasn't his looks, I had met men classically better looking than him, but when we met, the energy was powerful, and we dated for many years.  And because of our strong connection/energy/attraction, to me he was the BEST looking guy ever!  

So give it time, and take steps to improve your energy, your self-esteem.

You just gotta start feeling better about yourself mate, start liking yourself, otherwise no one else will either, including the ladies. 

All the best. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't worry , suggested all this to him a yr or two ago . l know you try to feel positive za going along to meet someone , but even as you talk about it all l can feel the undertone and attitudes your covered in it and she'll pick it up in seconds . l can understand it being a hard thing to truly shake mentally with the run you've had this is why we've tried to talk you into a drink or two before you leave. You might be amazed at even how one beer or a scotch could lighten you up a bit. And yeah l agree with fox too in that don't just discount the quiet girl l've known very quiet people that'll talk your ear off when they're comfortable and turned out to have some very cool personality traits later on.

 

 

 

 

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The one thing dating has taught me is to build people up, make them feel good, believe in them because mostly when it comes to dating I am thrown away like trash and that's not a nice feeling.   

I think we've touched on this before.  Honestly, if you are going on dates building people up, it will be super weird.  It's one thing to build up a person who's shy and down on themselves, but building up a person who's already confident and competent is downright strange and will likely make you look patronising.   You're not doing yourself any favours here.

And dare I say, you're not opposed to throwing away people's profiles like trash on OLD.  You don't have the right to complain about what you do to others being done to you.

[chillii]

 

And the same goes with so called attractiveness that stuff is very very subjective , personality and connection can trump it hands down with some , turn anyone into your Goddess ,  it's within as much as externally .

[Emilie Jolie]

What's true is that people with a similar background to yours in terms of experience are the only ones who can truly relate to your situation, and therefore be truly empathetic. There are many more people in that situation than you think. I actually read a peer-reviewed article recently on men specifically who were yet to experience intimacy with a partner - the 2 biggest common traits among those men (those who didn't choose it, at least) were described as lack of alcohol consumption and strong religious beliefs (or similar rigid views). The article was stressing how potent the feelings of fear of alienation, shame and fear of being perceived as not being 'masculine' enough were among these men, obviously creating a very heavy mental toll on them. I don't want to speak out of turn and assume that's where you're at - it may not be at all, since your situation is not entirely determined by your lack of options - you go on dates!

Who knows, maybe a clean slate could be good for you - starting afresh some place new may work for a bit but when the novelty wears off, you will still be the same person. Unless and until your change your mindset from a form of bitter resignation to fully accepting who you are, things will be the same everywhere you go.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

I think we've touched on this before.  Honestly, if you are going on dates building people up, it will be super weird.  It's one thing to build up a person who's shy and down on themselves, but building up a person who's already confident and competent is downright strange and will likely make you look patronising.   You're not doing yourself any favours here.

And dare I say, you're not opposed to throwing away people's profiles like trash on OLD.  You don't have the right to complain about what you do to others being done to you.

You right I don't find larger people attractive at all so no I am not going to go on dates with them. If I can't exercise some sort of preference then there is no point at dating at all.

My building up comment was not in context of dating it was in terms of the many underprivileged people I come across many of which have seemingly given up and believe they have no purpose and cannot do anything.

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Foxhall said:

you never know, some women actually might find this charming in a certain way, even highly attractive ones,

there seems to be a lack of connecting for you on most of the dates you go on, maybe if you switched your approach in the sense of seeking out quieter more introverted types of women, you may find them personality types easier to connect with,

just a thought.

 

Those that do are severely unattractive to me because again they are the larger person. In fact it's a never ending source of irritation that I can never match with anyone slim. 

Ultimately it would seem you either play the game or observe the game. Maybe for someone like me the latter is better just watch everyone else date. 

 

[basil67]

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

You right I don't find larger people attractive at all so no I am not going to go on dates with them. If I can't exercise some sort of preference then there is no point at dating at all.

My building up comment was not in context of dating it was in terms of the many underprivileged people I come across many of which have seemingly given up and believe they have no purpose and cannot do anything.

And it's absolutely fine to exercise your right to be choosy.  But like I said, you don't get to complain about being thrown away like trash when you do it to others. 

I'm glad I misunderstood the building up comment.  Carry on 

[an0nym0us123]

Its interesting that people talk about energy and enthusiasm being attractive. I suppose going on a first date is basically finding out what it is like to spend time with the other person as much as finding out about them. So yes energy may be helpful.

In real life however i have found the exact opposite is true. When i met my ex, i could tell she was fairly interested. She would come to talk to me at the bar and she was flirty. At the time she had a bf so i did not really show much interest back even though i did find her attractive. 

What this did was drive her WILD. Her attempts to get my attention increased until she was basically spelling it out for me what she wanted. 

I was already face book friends with her and she started to instant message me. Id only reply a couple of times to her and then she would get annoyed that i would not chat to her. Basically she would say she was never going to speak to me again.

But a week later or something i would get a message about something. And the cycle would repeat. 

Around this time she split up with her bf, but up to this point I had really given her no indication that i was interested at all. I showed no enthusiasm what so ever.

In the week or two after she broke up she started contacting me more and more and until finally she demanded to know why i was ignoring all her advances. I acted like i had no idea what she was on about and asked her if she fancied me or something? She basically replied "for god sake isnt it obvious!"

At that point all i had to do was walk through the door. I had put zero effort into trying to woo her or sell myself to her.

I simply acted indifferent and it drove her crazy. I guess she saw me as a challenge. 

I can think of a handful of other women in my life i have known fancy me and the same thing happened. I didnt much interest back and it drove them wild. One actually pinned me to the wall at a party and told me im not leaving till i kissed her!

For me these have been the only times in my life that i have had women coming after me. Going out on dates, trying to be funny, enthusiastic, talkative, engaging or what ever has been a complete waste of time. 

The ones i attracted in real life i did absolutely nothing 

 

 

 

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Going out on dates, trying to be funny, enthusiastic, talkative, engaging or what ever has been a complete waste of time. 

The operative word being "trying"
There is nothing worse than a person "trying" to be something they are not.
 

 

[an0nym0us123]

I have never tried to be someone i am not. However going on a date is in its self putting effort into finding a mate. 

Having been on numerous dates I find it fairly easy now to get conversation flowing. 

 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Its interesting that people talk about energy and enthusiasm being attractive. I suppose going on a first date is basically finding out what it is like to spend time with the other person as much as finding out about them. So yes energy may be helpful.

In real life however i have found the exact opposite is true. When i met my ex, i could tell she was fairly interested. She would come to talk to me at the bar and she was flirty. At the time she had a bf so i did not really show much interest back even though i did find her attractive. 

What this did was drive her WILD. Her attempts to get my attention increased until she was basically spelling it out for me what she wanted. 

I was already face book friends with her and she started to instant message me. Id only reply a couple of times to her and then she would get annoyed that i would not chat to her. Basically she would say she was never going to speak to me again.

But a week later or something i would get a message about something. And the cycle would repeat. 

Around this time she split up with her bf, but up to this point I had really given her no indication that i was interested at all. I showed no enthusiasm what so ever.

In the week or two after she broke up she started contacting me more and more and until finally she demanded to know why i was ignoring all her advances. I acted like i had no idea what she was on about and asked her if she fancied me or something? She basically replied "for god sake isnt it obvious!"

At that point all i had to do was walk through the door. I had put zero effort into trying to woo her or sell myself to her.

I simply acted indifferent and it drove her crazy. I guess she saw me as a challenge. 

I can think of a handful of other women in my life i have known fancy me and the same thing happened. I didnt much interest back and it drove them wild. One actually pinned me to the wall at a party and told me im not leaving till i kissed her!

For me these have been the only times in my life that i have had women coming after me. Going out on dates, trying to be funny, enthusiastic, talkative, engaging or what ever has been a complete waste of time. 

The ones i attracted in real life i did absolutely nothing.

I am often told to adopt this method by a friend of mine. Like you he has had a few similar situations which must be great but I cant say I have ever had this happen or am likely to have it to happen. I would agree its a much better idea than OLD. You probably have a charisma about you which does help.

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

What's true is that people with a similar background to yours in terms of experience are the only ones who can truly relate to your situation, and therefore be truly empathetic. There are many more people in that situation than you think. I actually read a peer-reviewed article recently on men specifically who were yet to experience intimacy with a partner - the 2 biggest common traits among those men (those who didn't choose it, at least) were described as lack of alcohol consumption and strong religious beliefs (or similar rigid views). The article was stressing how potent the feelings of fear of alienation, shame and fear of being perceived as not being 'masculine' enough were among these men, obviously creating a very heavy mental toll on them. I don't want to speak out of turn and assume that's where you're at - it may not be at all, since your situation is not entirely determined by your lack of options - you go on dates!

Who knows, maybe a clean slate could be good for you - starting afresh some place new may work for a bit but when the novelty wears off, you will still be the same person. Unless and until your change your mindset from a form of bitter resignation to fully accepting who you are, things will be the same everywhere you go.

This post did make me smile because at least there is some truth in what I am saying about not drinking being seen as an oddity in terms of meeting up with people. By clean slate I mean being able to eradicate the memories of just about every date I have been on. I would agree what you say about the peer review article in many respects and for men who land up like that I completely blame society.

I do sometimes wonder if I get passed over for not being "macho" enough but I usually just put that feeling away.

In terms of dates I would guess the most I ever had in one year was 10-15 with different people. Of the last few years I think its maybe not more than 6-7 at most so I wouldn't say I going on lots of dates.

It might surprise you and others that my idea of dating in my late teens was to try and be friends and then it would progress from that but that didn't prove to be true. But at least I did get chased a bit but at the time I was more focussed on other things to actually enjoy being chased, instead I fobbed them off. Part of me thinks I am being punished now for doing that.

 

[chillii]

5 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Its interesting that people talk about energy and enthusiasm being attractive. I suppose going on a first date is basically finding out what it is like to spend time with the other person as much as finding out about them. So yes energy may be helpful.

In real life however i have found the exact opposite is true. When i met my ex, i could tell she was fairly interested. She would come to talk to me at the bar and she was flirty. At the time she had a bf so i did not really show much interest back even though i did find her attractive. 

What this did was drive her WILD. Her attempts to get my attention increased until she was basically spelling it out for me what she wanted. 

I was already face book friends with her and she started to instant message me. Id only reply a couple of times to her and then she would get annoyed that i would not chat to her. Basically she would say she was never going to speak to me again.

But a week later or something i would get a message about something. And the cycle would repeat. 

Around this time she split up with her bf, but up to this point I had really given her no indication that i was interested at all. I showed no enthusiasm what so ever.

In the week or two after she broke up she started contacting me more and more and until finally she demanded to know why i was ignoring all her advances. I acted like i had no idea what she was on about and asked her if she fancied me or something? She basically replied "for god sake isnt it obvious!"

At that point all i had to do was walk through the door. I had put zero effort into trying to woo her or sell myself to her.

I simply acted indifferent and it drove her crazy. I guess she saw me as a challenge. 

I can think of a handful of other women in my life i have known fancy me and the same thing happened. I didnt much interest back and it drove them wild. One actually pinned me to the wall at a party and told me im not leaving till i kissed her!

For me these have been the only times in my life that i have had women coming after me. Going out on dates, trying to be funny, enthusiastic, talkative, engaging or what ever has been a complete waste of time. 

The ones i attracted in real life i did absolutely nothing 

 

 

 

 

 

Old news and they've fancied you , it's easy to play games when it's that obvious , if your the type to play games,.or as in his teens that he's talked about. But not in a date situation now though where you've never laid eyes on each other in your life and you've had the run za's had these days. ps , and good energy is nothing to do with the energy your talking about and l'd be thinking in za's case , with his personality attitudes and shyness , he needs it.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by chillii

[an0nym0us123]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I am often told to adopt this method by a friend of mine. Like you he has had a few similar situations which must be great but I cant say I have ever had this happen or am likely to have it to happen. I would agree its a much better idea than OLD. You probably have a charisma about you which does help.

I never was one of those guys who would go to bars and approach women. Mostly i would just keep myself to myself, occasionally someone would take an interest. 

Old has been a waste of time frankly despite being able to get dates from it.

Seems that anytime i was to do something pro active to find a woman it results in rejection. Whether that be from real life or online dating. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by an0nym0us123

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, an0nym0us123 said:

I never was one of those guys who would go to bars and approach women. Mostly i would just keep myself to myself, occasionally someone would take an interest. 

Old has been a waste of time frankly despite being able to get dates from it.

Seems that anytime i was to do something pro active to find a woman it results in rejection. Whether that be from real life or online dating. 

I would agree with you because all of the platforms don't really allow you to sell yourself but its even more difficult in person to sell ones attributes. At the moment I am trying to win over someone from instagram of all places. There is some, actually a lot of common interests and we have actually met up before. She is early 20's which I guess is too young for me but at lease there are some fundamental shared interests so maybe some sort of friendship can come of it.

[Emilie Jolie]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I would agree what you say about the peer review article in many respects and for men who land up like that I completely blame society.

I agree.

The pressure, stigma, value and importance, status etc given to virginity and sexual experience are meangingless. I don't get why, as a 'society', we are accepting that our values be defined by such profoundly skewed criteria. There is no intrinsing value to having / not having experienced sex, when you think about it. It says nothing about who you are as a person,  how attractive you are, or about your human qualities.

The good news is that you too are part of 'society'; as such, you owe nobody an explanation.

Yeah, you are almost 36, but that means nothing. You're not on a schedule, you have the rest of your life still. 

The only thing I would suggest (I don't know if this has been suggested before) is to try and explore your 'sensual' side a bit more; surround yourself with things that feel good to touch (a nice soft fabric), to see (nothing beats a beautiful sunset - I bet they are beautiful where you live), to hear (some soothing music in the bath), etc...Being atuned to your senses makes you more confident in yourself, more appreciative of the world around... If you do that already, keep chill, bide your time and carry on dating!

[ZA Dater]

53 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I agree.

The pressure, stigma, value and importance, status etc given to virginity and sexual experience are meangingless. I don't get why, as a 'society', we are accepting that our values be defined by such profoundly skewed criteria. There is no intrinsing value to having / not having experienced sex, when you think about it. It says nothing about who you are as a person,  how attractive you are, or about your human qualities.

The good news is that you too are part of 'society'; as such, you owe nobody an explanation.

Yeah, you are almost 36, but that means nothing. You're not on a schedule, you have the rest of your life still. 

The only thing I would suggest (I don't know if this has been suggested before) is to try and explore your 'sensual' side a bit more; surround yourself with things that feel good to touch (a nice soft fabric), to see (nothing beats a beautiful sunset - I bet they are beautiful where you live), to hear (some soothing music in the bath), etc...Being atuned to your senses makes you more confident in yourself, more appreciative of the world around... If you do that already, keep chill, bide your time and carry on dating!

These are some of the reasons I enjoyed spending time with the yoga instructor. I have the co ordination of a hippo but even so it was these sorts of things, the sense of touch, she just saw me for me, I could be me and it just sort of worked, I spoke freely without thinking about every phrase and aspect of conversation. There was a degree of set up to this I found out afterwards but for once it was a decent set up, of course she lives a 1000 miles away and isn't really interested in me. Much the same applied to the model I spent a day with, she made me feel like something engaged with me, asked about me, what I thought of things.

I then compare these experiences to going on a date and 99% of the time I never get any of that.

Sunsets are indeed beautiful here! As in fact are many things around me so I very lucky in that regard.

[thefooloftheyear]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

This post did make me smile because at least there is some truth in what I am saying about not drinking being seen as an oddity in terms of meeting up with people. By clean slate I mean being able to eradicate the memories of just about every date I have been on. I would agree what you say about the peer review article in many respects and for men who land up like that I completely blame society.

 

 

Forget this....put this out of your mind.....its one of the most absurd things I have ever heard....I don't know what your issues are, but it absolutely has nothing to do with not consuming alcohol...

TFY

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Forget this....put this out of your mind.....its one of the most absurd things I have ever heard....I don't know what your issues are, but it absolutely has nothing to do with not consuming alcohol...

TFY

Well you haven't seen the odd looks I get when I say I don't drink. So yes its an oddity that I don't think women really like when they have the option of normality.