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do you just eventually give up?


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Emilie Jolie

Dating can be fun, when you go into with the intent of enjoying meeting someone new with no pressure on the end result. 

53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

When everything is looked at I have been lucky because I have got to meet that dreaded 1% of people, the best looking, the most dynamic, the nicest personalities, people seek them out and I have met many, they do exist, many are very nice people, most live very interesting lives, the problem with this is like eating rich chocolate cake, once you taste it, its all you want to eat. So yes I have concluded for me I will probably spend as many years as I am granted on this planet simply chasing the impossible because I just like the idea of the impossible more than the idea of the ordinary.

You seem to have an intriguing definition of 'ordinary', which to you appears to mean anyone who isn't in that '1%'. What do these 1% have that is so magical that other people don't? Are you not attracted to any particular human quality?

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1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Which basically makes it impossible for guys like me who fail at the step one which is attraction itself.

That’s sort of the opposite of What I’m saying man!

 

its not step one, sometimes, but not always! Sometimes its more like step 5!!

Step 1 Boy meets girl

Step 2 Boy talks to girl

Step 3 Boy vibes with with girl

Step 4 Boy gets excited about seeing girl

Step 5 Boy suddenly wonders why he never realise before how attractive girl is 🔥 🔥 

 

And it defo works the other way round! I know a lot of guys who are ‘punching’ in the looks department if you looked at their girlfriends - but they’ve got good chat! I actually think that’s probably one of the most important factors - being easy to talk to, a good conversationalist.. and anyone can get better at that!

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3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Not the issue with me is unfortunately my face apparently and there is nothing I can do about that. At least I know that the issue now so there is some comfort to that I suppose.

I recall you saying the edited photos were you (your face) with photoshopped body.  
 

What exactly are these “fake” photos that work?

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1 hour ago, Ollie180 said:

That’s sort of the opposite of What I’m saying man!

 

its not step one, sometimes, but not always! Sometimes its more like step 5!!

Step 1 Boy meets girl

Step 2 Boy talks to girl

Step 3 Boy vibes with with girl

Step 4 Boy gets excited about seeing girl

Step 5 Boy suddenly wonders why he never realise before how attractive girl is 🔥 🔥 

 

And it defo works the other way round! I know a lot of guys who are ‘punching’ in the looks department if you looked at their girlfriends - but they’ve got good chat! I actually think that’s probably one of the most important factors - being easy to talk to, a good conversationalist.. and anyone can get better at that!

I've tried to explain this concept to ZA numerous times.   However, it's not just ZA who operates like this - we have a few single posters who's first criteria is appearance.  

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8 hours ago, basil67 said:

I've tried to explain this concept to ZA numerous times.   However, it's not just ZA who operates like this - we have a few single posters who's first criteria is appearance.  

Please tell me how this relates to Tinder where the only criteria is appearance? Why would people who use Tinder apply any other criteria if they saw me in a shop? They wouldn't.

I love the fairy tale of boy meets girl, girl gets to know boy and then finds him attractive. Guess what, my reality is never ever like that. That chance is never given, either the person is attractive or not. 

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9 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

That’s sort of the opposite of What I’m saying man!

 

its not step one, sometimes, but not always! Sometimes its more like step 5!!

Step 1 Boy meets girl

Step 2 Boy talks to girl

Step 3 Boy vibes with with girl

Step 4 Boy gets excited about seeing girl

Step 5 Boy suddenly wonders why he never realise before how attractive girl is 🔥 🔥 

 

And it defo works the other way round! I know a lot of guys who are ‘punching’ in the looks department if you looked at their girlfriends - but they’ve got good chat! I actually think that’s probably one of the most important factors - being easy to talk to, a good conversationalist.. and anyone can get better at that!

Not been my experience at all and I don't know anyone who has had this experience either. 

I used to believe in that but stopped doing so about 5 years ago because no matter how well I tried I engage, take an interest it never worked because I wasn't the instant gratification they wanted, the final nail in this coffin of thinking arrived last year when I met someone I really did like, text conversation was great, the date conversation was also good.

Guess what never heard from her again...no attraction. I can do whatever I want but there is never any attraction.

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I think @Ollie180 meant the other way around - that YOU might have someone become more attractive to you after getting to know them over time. 
 

Your insistence on being “wowed” immediately is one of the things contributing to your lack of success.

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2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Please tell me how this relates to Tinder where the only criteria is appearance? Why would people who use Tinder apply any other criteria if they saw me in a shop? They wouldn't.

I love the fairy tale of boy meets girl, girl gets to know boy and then finds him attractive. Guess what, my reality is never ever like that. That chance is never given, either the person is attractive or not. 

Frankly, I can't imagine being attracted to the kind of person who's on Tinder.   Choosing someone from a line up of photos isn't my style and I wouldn't want someone who did that in return.  Instead, I'd use a site which has a place for the person to give a bio.  He wouldn't have to be an Adonis, but he would need to have a warm and genuine smile.  Likewise, a cold approach in a shop isn't my style either - I've only accepted dates through friends and social events.   

And yes, Ollie was using the fairy tale the other way around.  He suggested that you might meet a girl, get to know her and then find her attractive.   But this fairy tale does not work unless it goes both ways.  

 

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1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

I think @Ollie180 meant the other way around - that YOU might have someone become more attractive to you after getting to know them over time. 
 

Your insistence on being “wowed” immediately is one of the things contributing to your lack of success.

SO once again its me who must bend over backward in desperation. "Yeh well she isn't really attractive to me but you know maybe if I convince myself she is she will be". Sorry but that is to me completely pointless. I find it amusing that this advice is ALWAYS directed at men but never the other way round.

I am honestly past doing those sort of experiments, been there done that and you know what days and days of texting the person never ever becomes anymore attractive than what they were in the begin. Of course I will get slammed fort that and while I take some responsibility it would be nice if some blame can actually be apportioned to these many people I have met over the 18 years. Apparently they are all blameless.

Bottom line is this. I'd rather have coffee with someone I find attractive and amazing than date someone I who is neither of those things.

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13 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

I know a lot of guys who are ‘punching’ in the looks department if you looked at their girlfriends - but they’ve got good chat! I actually think that’s probably one of the most important factors - being easy to talk to, a good conversationalist.. and anyone can get better at that!

We all know couples like this^^^. 
ZA Dater by his own admission is not good at chat, not good at banter, not good at fun, not good at holding a conversation with girls he has  already "dismissed" as not  being "good enough".
He can go on about his  looks all night, but looks per se don't really matter to a lot of women if the connection is good. 

He fails to make connection but blames his looks.
Even if he was that guy with the six pack and the film star good looks, I guess he would still be struggling with women. 
One of the most handsome guys I ever knew in real life was useless with women. He was beautiful...
BUT dry, boring, overly serious, rigid, intense and a bit scary actually...

Until ZA Dater addresses his social skills he is never going to fit what most women are looking for in a man.
Someone with professional  experience needs  to look at what ZA is doing wrong as years of dates and no or very few second dates means there must be something that is putting all these women off. I guess it would take them about 5 minutes to suss out and suggest improvements...

 

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35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Frankly, I can't imagine being attracted to the kind of person who's on Tinder.   Choosing someone from a line up of photos isn't my style and I wouldn't want someone who did that in return.  Instead, I'd use a site which has a place for the person to give a bio.  He wouldn't have to be an Adonis, but he would need to have a warm and genuine smile.  Likewise, a cold approach in a shop isn't my style either - I've only accepted dates through friends and social events.   

And yes, Ollie was using the fairy tale the other way around.  He suggested that you might meet a girl, get to know her and then find her attractive.   But this fairy tale does not work unless it goes both ways.  

 

What kind of person is on Tinder. Millions use it so I am curious? FYI one can have a bio like every other site and its telling being on various of these sites for 18 years the bio doesn't count for much, you can spin the biggest load of BS, you can be the most sincere, none of it really matters in the end because its ALL about the looks. I'd humour someone who isn't super attractive to me but then they'd need to bring other amazing qualities to the table. So far none has.

I don't mind being arrogant and saying attractive people do bring other things to the table, one of which is usually confidence, because they get loads of attention they interact with lots of people which once again brings new outlooks on life. I have lived in that circle for a while as the unattractive outsider and I can tell you things are MUCH easier for those people, very little work is required to find a date, no work is required to find attention. Are they discerning yes they are, would I stand a chance, absolutely not.

However its a perspective as is everything, spend time chatting to a homeless guy and spend time chatting to a millionaire and you get different perspective of the same thing, different realities, the trick is to take them both on and put yourself in that persons shoes and understand their reality. I am nothing special at all but I do take on and try to understand the reality of others, I try to take an interest in them, for me that should count for something, instead it counts for nothing.

I have no issues with larger people or single moms, neither interests me for different reason, much like I don't interest probably 99.9% of people but you cannot say I am wrong because they don't interest me.

For years I have been going out with people who don't interest me, trying to find them interesting and I cannot but at least I gave some benefit of the doubt BUT the truth is I simply DO NO know what people want. What did the politician I went out and spent 4 hours chatting with actually want? What did the horse riding teacher I went out twice with actually want? In the case of the former before we even met she considered "coming over" and yet 4 hours of a date didn't lead to any further meet ups not even a friendship.

Everyday I set myself target to try and achieve but what am I really hoping to achieve with dating, I thought I used to know but I don't because every single date I go on muddies the waters more and more.

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3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

We all know couples like this^^^. 
ZA Dater by his own admission is not good at chat, not good at banter, not good at fun, not good at holding a conversation with girls he has  already "dismissed" as not  being "good enough".
He can go on about his  looks all night, but looks per se don't really matter to a lot of women if the connection is good. 

He fails to make connection but blames his looks.
Even if he was that guy with the six pack and the film star good looks, I guess he would still be struggling with women. 
One of the most handsome guys I ever knew in real life was useless with women. He was beautiful...
BUT dry, boring, overly serious, rigid, intense and a bit scary actually...

Until ZA Dater addresses his social skills he is never going to fit what most women are looking for in a man.
Someone with professional  experience needs  to look at what ZA is doing wrong as years of dates and no or very few second dates means there must be something that is putting all these women off. I guess it would take them about 5 minutes to suss out and suggest improvements...

 

Even less as it takes apparently one minute to look at my face.

I can do banter and chit chat with the right people, trust me if I was so useless I couldn't have 4 hour long dates but honestly there needs to be something in it for me, they need to engage to and few actually do on a level that I enjoy.

Connection is quite frankly BS, if they were the case I would see completely mismatched couples and I don't, when I do its usually because of pure economics and nothing else.

Looks open the door, there frankly is no argument there.  You aren't going to go up to the guy with an ugly face is there is an attractive guy nearby. You aren't going to say "well he isn't that good looking he might have a personality"

Simply put you aren't, that belongs in every script of virtually every romance movie ever made. Selling society on "fake news" to use a phrase very popular today.

 

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Emilie Jolie

Sounds like you're struggling with the idea of being 'ordinary' - whatever that means to you. Accept that without bitterness, focus on the positive qualities that you do have and take it from there. The type you're after will want someone who is comfortable with who they are as a baseline. Looks like you're falling at the first hurdle, ZA Dater.

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40 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Sounds like you're struggling with the idea of being 'ordinary' - whatever that means to you. Accept that without bitterness, focus on the positive qualities that you do have and take it from there. The type you're after will want someone who is comfortable with who they are as a baseline. Looks like you're falling at the first hurdle, ZA Dater.

I am quite happy being me and I know what good qualities of have the fact they are useless from a dating point of view, oh well such is life I am never going to get past the attractive test so may as well just be who I want to be.

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Emilie Jolie

Are you saying that you have never 'passed the attraction test' ever or that you have, but not with the women you're physically attracted to? Are all these women a uniform herd who only are attracted to a tiny number of men with a very limited set of traits, none of which you have?

Edited by Emilie Jolie
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7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Please tell me how this relates to Tinder where the only criteria is appearance? Why would people who use Tinder apply any other criteria if they saw me in a shop?

Sure, for Tinder, but Tinder and it’s ilk is not the world of dating or even OLD.  

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3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

... the truth is I simply DO NO know what people want.

Agreed, a nugget of truth but everything else you do and say paints the opposite picture.  

You seem to have it all figured out, it’s looks and I guess money, that connection doesn’t exist.   
  

I’m still curious what this “fake” picture you used is.   
 

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an0nym0us123

Looks are not the be all and end all but in my opinion you have find your partner physically attractive to some extent for it to work. Preferences will vary person to person. Attraction can also grow over time but at the very beginning i believe there has to be something there that the other person likes a lot. Be it a smile, nice body, eyes or whatever.

 

  

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3 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Are you saying that you have never 'passed the attraction test' ever or that you have, but not with the women you're physically attracted to? Are all these women a uniform herd who only are attracted to a tiny number of men with a very limited set of traits, none of which you have?

Sure I think some found me attractive but they had absolutely nothing I found attractive at all.

I think its more a case of me not having the apparently universally like traits rather than them looking for a relatively limited set of traits. Ultimately most know their value and know what they want and go after what they want which because they have value its a bit easier.

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2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Sure, for Tinder, but Tinder and it’s ilk is not the world of dating or even OLD.  

I disagree. What works on Tinder will work on every other platform including in person. Bumble is much the same, as is OK cupid.

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9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Please tell me how this relates to Tinder where the only criteria is appearance? Why would people who use Tinder apply any other criteria if they saw me in a shop?

Every lad I know who is on tinder is on it for hookups! Are we talking getting hookups or dates? Cause I do think getting hookups is different 

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Guess what never heard from her again...no attraction. I can do whatever I want but there is never any attraction.

Oh geezer - you and EVERYONE else!! 
That’s your nail in the coffin? ...It’s you life, if that’s the final straw for you then cool but mate, who hasn’t been there!?

I can pick girls up. I’ve had one night stands, I’ve had holiday flings, and I’ve had serious girlfriends ....but when I was 27 I proposed to my girlfriend of the time - and she said no 🤦🏼‍♂️
...Should I have just stopped trying then? Decided that love was never gonna be for me?

Who hasn’t liked someone more than they liked you back at some point in their life?

(as it so happens, I know now this girl was 100% right to say no, and the next serious girlfriend that followed her was the love of my life)

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

SO once again its me who must bend over backward in desperation. "Yeh well she isn't really attractive to me but you know maybe if I convince myself she is she will be"

...

Bottom line is this. I'd rather have coffee with someone I find attractive and amazing than date someone I who is neither of those things.

Desperation? 🤦🏼‍♂️😂

I’ll tell you a story mate..

Once upon a time, I was working abroad on a conservation project, my job was to lead volunteers that used to come work with us for a few weeks or months.

I had a group start new and two of the girls had come together.

A few of the staff kept pointing on of the girls out as being really stunning..... I though ‘meh 🤷🏼‍♂️’, she was objectively pretty but she didn’t stand out to me, I just though not my type ... I noticed her mate though - just for being a proper laugh, up for everything, outgoing, really friendly! Said mate had a boyfriend so it wasn’t even a romantic thing, I just thought she was cracking company and that was why I started hanging out with them!


...Only as I got to know them better, that’s when I got to know my ex. She was actually really shy, lacked a bit of confidence (not my usual ‘type’). But as she got comfortable with me, I realised she was properly hilarious, a right little wind up she’d match me toe to toe with some banter which I just love! And it was then that I suddenly started to like look around for her all the time, .....and then suddenly when she walked into a room I’d notice her and be like ‘**** she looks like fire’ 🔥🔥

...And then I started dating her, and Jesus Christ - live if my life that girl and smoking hot 🥵 like how did I not see it before!? 

...but I didn’t! By your rules I’d of not bothered getting to know her because that Instant rip-my-clothes-off wasn’t there!

These days I’ll see celebs on the tele and be like ‘nah not as fit as the ex’

...but I shouldnt have gone out for coffee with her because I didn’t think she was ‘attractive and amazing’ upon first meeting?

...hell how can you find ANYONE ‘amazing’ when you haven’t even had a coffee with them yet??

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

ZA Dater by his own admission is not good at chat, not good at banter, not good at fun, not good at holding a conversation with girls he has  already "dismissed" as not  being "good enough".

^ This is your problem lad!!

You need to go out and just be around girls loads, not through a screen!

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1 hour ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Looks are not the be all and end all but in my opinion you have find your partner physically attractive to some extent for it to work. Preferences will vary person to person. Attraction can also grow over time but at the very beginning i believe there has to be something there that the other person likes a lot. Be it a smile, nice body, eyes or whatever.

 

  

Thank you for at least acknowledging this.

You either find the person attractive or you don't and with a new match a swipe away who is going to invest time to see of the person "maybe" become attractive? Very few is the answer.

Why would they?

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2 minutes ago, Ollie180 said:

Every lad I know who is on tinder is on it for hookups! Are we talking getting hookups or dates? Cause I do think getting hookups is different 

Oh geezer - you and EVERYONE else!! 
That’s your nail in the coffin? ...It’s you life, if that’s the final straw for you then cool but mate, who hasn’t been there!?

I can pick girls up. I’ve had one night stands, I’ve had holiday flings, and I’ve had serious girlfriends ....but when I was 27 I proposed to my girlfriend of the time - and she said no 🤦🏼‍♂️
...Should I have just stopped trying then? Decided that love was never gonna be for me?

Who hasn’t liked someone more than they liked you back at some point in their life?

(as it so happens, I know now this girl was 100% right to say no, and the next serious girlfriend that followed her was the love of my life)

Desperation? 🤦🏼‍♂️😂

I’ll tell you a story mate..

Once upon a time, I was working abroad on a conservation project, my job was to lead volunteers that used to come work with us for a few weeks or months.

I had a group start new and two of the girls had come together.

A few of the staff kept pointing on of the girls out as being really stunning..... I though ‘meh 🤷🏼‍♂️’, she was objectively pretty but she didn’t stand out to me, I just though not my type ... I noticed her mate though - just for being a proper laugh, up for everything, outgoing, really friendly! Said mate had a boyfriend so it wasn’t even a romantic thing, I just thought she was cracking company and that was why I started hanging out with them!


...Only as I got to know them better, that’s when I got to know my ex. She was actually really shy, lacked a bit of confidence (not my usual ‘type’). But as she got comfortable with me, I realised she was properly hilarious, a right little wind up she’d match me toe to toe with some banter which I just love! And it was then that I suddenly started to like look around for her all the time, .....and then suddenly when she walked into a room I’d notice her and be like ‘**** she looks like fire’ 🔥🔥

...And then I started dating her, and Jesus Christ - live if my life that girl and smoking hot 🥵 like how did I not see it before!? 

...but I didn’t! By your rules I’d of not bothered getting to know her because that Instant rip-my-clothes-off wasn’t there!

These days I’ll see celebs on the tele and be like ‘nah not as fit as the ex’

...but I shouldnt have gone out for coffee with her because I didn’t think she was ‘attractive and amazing’ upon first meeting?

...hell how can you find ANYONE ‘amazing’ when you haven’t even had a coffee with them yet??

^ This is your problem lad!!

You need to go out and just be around girls loads, not through a screen!

There is one big difference here: You were working off a base of past success, I have no past success at all, its all a pretty meh or just rejection. Heck at 36 I have hardly been kissed, I cannot say "yeh that was great I had 3 dates with her". So you had some confidence based on past success, I cannot find any.

For me nobody puts in effort with me so why should in any effort with people who don't appeal to me based on what I like? I have tried before with people I do like but not even a half decent date gets me another date. Doesn't matter what I say or do, the result is always the same, coffee date, activity date, dinner, lunch, event, doesn't make any difference at all.

Where do you suggest I go out?

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20 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

 but they’ve got good chat! I actually think that’s probably one of the most important factors - being easy to talk to, a good conversationalist.. and anyone can get better at that!

I am actually ok at this providing I don't need to deal with a high degree of apathy and there is some intellectual connection. As I say I had a really good date last year, there was lots of potential in the sense we would actually be sort of compatible. I not so dense to think I could pair up with someone who drinks massively and loves clubbing, that just would not work.

There were common interests and the conversation flowed well. However again when I have gone out I have seen conversation seems irrelevant because if it were, with respect I cannot see why miss blond would be dating someone so apathetic.

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2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Agreed, a nugget of truth but everything else you do and say paints the opposite picture.  

You seem to have it all figured out, it’s looks and I guess money, that connection doesn’t exist.   
  

I’m still curious what this “fake” picture you used is.   
 

Connection. What is that exactly, objectively what is it? For me its simply common beliefs and ideals.

You say its looks, I have NEVER met an attractive lady who struggled to find dates. So yes I'd wager looks are a huge advantage in that you can conjure up some interest.

Frankly I'd rather be in the position to choose than to "well she isn't really what I like but, maybe she will be nice' I have been down that pointless road many times, its never a fairy tale. In fact this idea is best in a movie script and never attempted in reality. Next people will be telling me to see if I charm a drug addict and she might change her ways, the reality is leopards cant change their spots, they can only disguise them some of the time.

Sure I can and have put on such stunning examples of fakery even I am amazed that I pulled the idea but it was largely a waste of time because the person in front of me never really warranted the effort. That's the point, women put in no effort with me why should I bother unless the person actually interests me?

The people that interest me the most are the most difficult to get, the instances where I would need to pull of something completely miraculous to have any chance at all, why because everything I like in life consists of a challenge. SO yes I am always going to slam myself into a brick wall because if you look at it objectively I will NEVER have any chance with them which is why the "average" person doesn't interest me. Ultimately each day if I chase the seemingly impossible I am motivated to continue chasing that idea whatever it might be, if I settle for whatever then what I have actually accomplished: nothing really. This has manifested itself in chasing people for long periods of time but ultimately getting nowhere, at least when I was chasing I had some objective but I can say at the moment there is nobody who interests me.

I get that might be hard to understand but its roots are when I was growing up people continually told me or muttered "he wont be able to do that" well my response was to carry on until I did. However dating using that philosophy comes at a big price because at nearly 36 I am not close to accomplishing the seemingly impossible than I was at 20. If it were not for wanting one just ONE good experience then I'd probably have given up long ago.

 

 

 

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