20 years gone? [Updated Feb 25]

[chryssy83]

It sounds to me like she has a lot of built up hurt. Go to the marriage counseling. Stop making her commit to being in the relationship to a certain level etc before you will go to counseling. Let someone else be in charge of the conversation and make yourself really listen when she speaks. Put yourself in her place and try to see where she is coming from.

[chryssy83]

Also I’m not saying her behavior is great but you’re the one who wants to save the relationship right now so you’re going to have to stop thinking you’re doing the work of fixing it just by identifying what’s wrong with her.

[Blind-Sided]

It sounds to me like she has a lot of built up hurt. Go to the marriage counseling. Stop making her commit to being in the relationship to a certain level etc before you will go to counseling. Let someone else be in charge of the conversation and make yourself really listen when she speaks.

I've told her to set something up. (letting her pick the person) She goes back and forth with the $$$ involved. I've never once said I wouldn't go. To be exact... it came up on Saturday, and I said I would go, and be positive to all of it.

Put yourself in her place and try to see where she is coming from.

That point has come up. (a few weeks ago) She has asked me to put myself in her shoes. My response was... "I really can't since I don't hold onto things, and I say exactly what's on my mind. I couldn't hold in 20 years worth of issues."

 

She actually understood... because she said I was right on that point.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix spacing

[S2B]

Doesn’t look like she is doing what you said you required - HER doing the work necessary to fix the problems.

 

Does your wife work?

Edited January 22, 2019 by S2B

[elaine567]

That point has come up. (a few weeks ago) She has asked me to put myself in her shoes. My response was... "I really can't since I don't hold onto things, and I say exactly what's on my mind. I couldn't hold in 20 years worth of issues."

 

 

Oh dear.

 

If a good friend of yours said his dog had died and he was really cut up about it and he couldn't sleep and it was upsetting him a lot and you said, "Sorry don't do dogs, no idea why you are so upset, a dog's a dog get another one..."

How helpful do you think that would be?

 

That is essentially what you did to your wife.

"Sorry, no idea what you are talking about here, *I* don't hold grudges for 20 years, get over yourself" There was a big dig in there...

Unless you are willing to acknowledge SHE is upset, and understand why SHE is upset and accept SHE has a valid reason to be upset and get off your high horse, then you can say good bye to your marriage.

[Blind-Sided]

I had to take a step back from this, just because I didn't know how to respond.

 

Elaine, while I thanked you for your prior input, you aren't really seeing the meaning of my words, and you really haven't read all of what I have written. In no way have I blown her off with a "Get over it." And, in no way is the death of a loved one (even a pet) a valid comparison. I have done everything in my power to be empathetic, and I've even taken responsibility for the past. The real problem is her, and simply not talking about the problems that bothered her, as they came up. She held EVERYTHING in, until it festered, and destroyed her. I became the target of the problems, when the real problem was her inability to talk about her problems, and her issue with assuming the worst. (her mother did that to her)

 

To everyone: It's been a few more weeks since the beginning of this thread, and in that time, I had gotten very sick. (high fever/chills) She took care of me like she always would, and made sure I was comfortable. I really feel that her meds are starting to help, and I'm hopeful that this will all turn around. The issue now is, she still won't open up and talk unless I drag it out of her. SO... On one hand, I guess that's not a bad thing, as she will open up at all. But on the other hand... since I led a 20 year long "Lie" with her... I don't know how I can trust that this may not happen again. (How do I ever trust what she is saying to me?)

 

 

There's still no real affection, but her actions are much "Nicer" than they were. We have gone 2 weeks without a problem/argument.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix spacing

[Marc878]

Oh dear.

 

If a good friend of yours said his dog had died and he was really cut up about it and he couldn't sleep and it was upsetting him a lot and you said, "Sorry don't do dogs, no idea why you are so upset, a dog's a dog get another one..."

How helpful do you think that would be?

 

That is essentially what you did to your wife.

"Sorry, no idea what you are talking about here, *I* don't hold grudges for 20 years, get over yourself" There was a big dig in there...

Unless you are willing to acknowledge SHE is upset, and understand why SHE is upset and accept SHE has a valid reason to be upset and get off your high horse, then you can say good bye to your marriage.

 

From his posts i don't see a valid reason for her actions. I think you are clueless here.

[Marc878]

From your posts you seem to tear up or cry when she lambasts you. Geeze man don't you realize you teach people how they can treat you.

 

Quit asking her anything and start going your own way. You've let her have complete control over you. You are a grown man for gods sake. Start acting like it.

 

Download and read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF it's short and will help you if you apply it.

 

She has zero respect and you take everything she throws at you. Respect yourself because if you don't neither will anyone else.

[Mr. Lucky]

That point has come up. (a few weeks ago) She has asked me to put myself in her shoes. My response was... "I really can't since I don't hold onto things, and I say exactly what's on my mind. I couldn't hold in 20 years worth of issues."

 

Blind-Sided, having her be wrong doesn't make you right. And that she hasn't responded proactively to the some of the issues you've admittedly caused doesn't lessen your responsibility.

 

You both seem to be carrying equal-sized chips on your shoulders, not a recipe for success when it comes to fixing your marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Turning point]

I'm packing to head home from my trip this morning. If there's any advice you can give before I get home... I would love to hear it. I know I'm my own worst enemy because of my own thoughts... I would love to know what to do about that.

 

Thank her for ironing your shirts. Tell her how much you appreciate how she's done things like that all of these years.

If she says: "Your welcome" then perhaps she loves you. If she never irons another shirt again, well...

 

Try to focus less on what she says and more on what she does. Actions speak louder than words.

[Knightman]

<snip>

Anyway... I guess the hard part of this is... she is still being nice to me. (Doing laundry, making breakfast, and so on) But the second I try to hold her hand, she pulls away. If I say "I love you", it's met with silence, or at worst (to me) a random sound of acknowledgment. Then, the icing on the cake is the... "I don't know what I want, and need time".

 

Wow, it's like we married the same woman! Only mine is now my ex-wife. So sorry my friend.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Blind-Sided]

Hi All,

I know you are probably getting tired of me... and even in my own head I'm thinking I'm just whining. But it's hard to not try to fight for my marriage, and the life I've built. If nothing else... thanks for letting me vent.

 

So... It's 4:30 am, and I can't sleep. But I'm also getting ready to head to the airport for a trip. Life over the last few weeks has been very rough. I came home from my last trip, and she had her rings off. I kid you not... I came home, unpacked... saw that, and headed out the door in tears. But something strange happened that night... I had a calm come over me, and I realized that I'm still married, and if I'm asking her for forgiveness... then I need to do the same.

 

The next day I was calm and collected, and had a conversation with her. She was trying to give me reasons she was doing what she is doing (hurt from the past)... but when I would ask for the actual thing that happed... she would respond... "Well I can't remember everything". So for the people who have followed some of other posts... we have gone from a "Dam'd if I do, Dam'ed if I don't" situation, to a "Getting blamed from something that probably didn't even happen". Oh... and the calmer I get... the more angry she gets.

 

At this point, I started to connect the dots, and realized that she has grown all of this out of the way she thinks things happed. (going over 20 years) As I would suspect... the sins of the past weren't bad enough to actually get her to talk to me about them... but as she dwelled on them... they grew out of control in her mind. Also... she is comparing life to the "Picture" of what it should be by now. The next point is... she has made comments about how my kids are scared of me, and my oldest wont even come out of her room when I'm home. Well, since she is using that as a wedge... I quietly asked my kids about if I scare them. My youngest said... "No Daddy. I love you" (with a big hug) My oldest said... "I understand that you have to get mad, and be the punisher. you are the dad." But then I asked her if she is scared to be alone with me. Her response was... "No, don't be silly." Ironically... yesterday morning... both kids were up well before the wife. My youngest was on my lap... and my oldest was sitting at the end of the couch. I didn't ask them over... they came over on their own free will. When the wife came out, she saw this, and actually got upset. (breaking her illusion I guess)

 

Now... I know some of you have said she is cheating on me. I still don't think this is the case. But, in the last few weeks, I've had a couple people local to me point out where a problem is. I FOUND THE TOXIC FRIEND !! The real pisser is... I can't tell you how much I've done for this woman over the years. (fixed her stove, fixed electrical, fixed their pool, watched her kid, fixed her kids bikes... all free) The information was brought to me by a couple people in my neighborhood because they thought what was happening was underhanded, and very ****ty.

 

Anyway... I guess I really can't fix the relationship as long as my wife is in this state of "What should be", and get her to stop listening to others that really have no stake in this. I know there's no real point here... but I haven't slept much, and needed to unload before heading out. Thanks.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix spacing and merge threads for continuity

[Mr. Lucky]

Now... I know some of you have said she is cheating on me. I still don't think this is the case. But, in the last few weeks, I've had a couple people local to me point out where a problem is. I FOUND THE TOXIC FRIEND !!

 

Blind-Sided, there's a real danger that someone like you, wanted to save your marriage, will try and offload blame for your wife's choices onto someone else. If it's not the "seductive and persistent" OM, it's often the "toxic and underhanded" friend.

 

Don't get distracted. The issue still lies wife your wife, assuming she's chosen this friend's input over your 20-year marriage. And with your wife now declining to wear her rings, at some point you may have to give her what she says she wants.

 

Any way to go to your boss and ask to be kept closer to home for a while?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Blind-Sided]

Blind-Sided, there's a real danger that someone like you, wanted to save your marriage, will try and offload blame for your wife's choices onto someone else. If it's not the "seductive and persistent" OM, it's often the "toxic and underhanded" friend.

 

Don't get distracted. The issue still lies wife your wife, assuming she's chosen this friend's input over your 20-year marriage. And with your wife now declining to wear her rings, at some point you may have to give her what she says she wants.

 

Any way to go to your boss and ask to be kept closer to home for a while?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

Thanks for chiming in. Yesterday was CRAZY bad. I was finding quiet corners of airports to cry. Once I got into my hotel... I had a good cry. Understand... I'm not an emotional kind of guy... but the situation, and lack of sleep makes it uncontrollable.

 

 

I'm not blaming the other party... in it's entirety. I know it's the wife's choice. But external influence on someone who is looking for validation is a bad thing. If this other person was talking her back to the relationship... I would be having calm conversations with my wife right now. (I'm sure you know what I mean) I guess that's why I post here. If I get someone who has valid points, and is telling me I'm wrong... I'm going to take that to heart.

 

 

The second thought on that is, where the REAL problem is. My wife has been talking about any issues she has had with other people, and not with me. One point she has basically side stepped every time I tried to bring it up is... She never talked to me about any of this.

 

 

The final thing is... I am the boss. (sort of) I'm an owner in this company, and my partner (brother) said to not go on this trip. I know any answer I may give won't be right with this... but I needed to take care of my customer. With that said... I told everyone that I would need to be at home for a while after this. But I don't know if this is right either.

 

 

At the beginning of this, she said "She needed some time, and some space." I offered to send her on a vacation and she could take someone with her. (sister or friend) She got mad at that. I told her to go to her mom's house for the weekend... she got mad at that. FYI, her mom is older and has health issues, so the kids wouldn't even give it a second thought if she was gone for the weekend helping her mother. SO, she wouldn't even do what she was asking for. So travel would give her a week at a time without me. I think (now) she was hoping I would leave... but since I didn't do anything (directly) wrong... I wasn't even considering that.

 

 

OK... I need to shower, and put on a happy face. I was so wiped out, I was able to sleep, so the emotions will be in check today.

 

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[elaine567]

At the beginning of this, she said "She needed some time, and some space." I offered to send her on a vacation and she could take someone with her. (sister or friend) She got mad at that. I told her to go to her mom's house for the weekend... she got mad at that. FYI, her mom is older and has health issues, so the kids wouldn't even give it a second thought if she was gone for the weekend helping her mother. SO, she wouldn't even do what she was asking for. So travel would give her a week at a time without me. I think (now) she was hoping I would leave... but since I didn't do anything

 

But you leave all the time on your trips so this is not physical time and space she is asking for, a vacation will not solve this either, I guess it is emotional time and space she is asking for.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think (now) she was hoping I would leave... but since I didn't do anything (directly) wrong... I wasn't even considering that.

 

Well, there's two kinds of leaving. There's walking away prematurely from a tenable situation, which deprives you of both a chance to improve things and any closure if things don't. But there's also eventually moving towards a healthier space, one allowing you to better function as a person, parent and employer.

 

At some point you'll have to decide which is which. Given your present stand-off, hard to see a path back towards marital contentment...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Blind-Sided]

............. Given your present stand-off, hard to see a path back towards marital contentment...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

I agree. But I'm just dumbfounded how a woman I've spent most of my life with just went so cold and cruel. With that said... she started all of this, and she is the one that has to end it. (for good or bad) I will not put an end to this since I still want things to work. But on that note... I put that to her the Saturday before last. She started to cry, and I could almost see her mouth wanting to say it was over... but she kept her jaw held tight. I know that wasn't good... but her holding back, and crying is an indication to me that there was still some "Spark" of life there.

 

 

FYI... in all of this, she has not said: Divorce, separate, or "It's Over" once.

[Blind-Sided]

But you leave all the time on your trips so this is not physical time and space she is asking for, a vacation will not solve this either, I guess it is emotional time and space she is asking for.

 

 

 

OK... can you elaborate? I understand that she doesn't see my trips as "Space". But how can we get that at home? I won't leave my own house because... 1) It wasn't me who had an issue, and I'm willing to do what it takes to set things right. 2) I'm sure if I leave, some lawyer will say I abandoned my family.

 

 

But as above... she never said "I want some time apart" or to "Separate for a while."

[Marc878]

Read up on the 180. It's in the article attached

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce

 

Quit asking her what she wants. Go your own way for a time.

 

She gets mad and you run off and cry. It's not getting you a damn thing.

 

Switch strategies. Go out. Spend time with the kids. Talking is getting you nothing here.

 

Unless you want to schedule MC.

[Marc878]

OK... can you elaborate? I understand that she doesn't see my trips as "Space". But how can we get that at home? I won't leave my own house because... 1) It wasn't me who had an issue, and I'm willing to do what it takes to set things right. 2) I'm sure if I leave, some lawyer will say I abandoned my family.

 

 

But as above... she never said "I want some time apart" or to "Separate for a while."

 

You are correct. Never leave your home. I think you give her what she wants. Give her Total space. You go your own way.

 

If you change nothing, nothing changes.

 

I can tell you this. If the marriage ends it won't be the end of your world. Many go through this and come out the other side.

 

Right now you are keeping yourself tied up in knots, etc. what's that getting you? Nothing. Let her/it go for awhile. What you're currently doing/trying isn't working. Take yourself out of the equation.

[Mr. Lucky]

FYI... in all of this, she has not said: Divorce, separate, or "It's Over" once.

 

Someone who's as conflict-avoidant as you wife seems to be won't say those words. Instead, she'll tell you she needs space, it's all your fault - and take her wedding rings off.

 

Only you can decide when is when. But would you live a year in this limbo? 5 years? 10 years? As this goes on, you're modeling for your kids what a marriage looks like...

 

Mr. Lucky

[vla1120]

Only you can decide when is when. But would you live a year in this limbo? 5 years? 10 years? As this goes on, you're modeling for your kids what a marriage looks like...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This comment really struck me. I was 15 years into my marriage (and very pregnant) when I was in a position to decide whether to end my marriage or stay and try to work it out. I stayed for another 17 years and showed my three daughters a very poor example of what a marriage should look like. One of the reasons it lasted another 17 years was because I refused to leave the home and so did he. My oldest is now 35, living alone with her cats. She's wasted over a decade on lousy relationships. My 29 year old does not believe in marriage and never wants children. My 23 year old is wasting her time with someone the family despises and also does not believe in marriage and never wants children - all of this because of the example we set for them.

 

Stay in your home, but if I were you, I'd be encouraging her to leave if she is not willing to put in the effort to make this marriage work.

[Blind-Sided]

Read up on the 180. .....

 

Quit asking her what she wants. Go your own way for a time.

 

She gets mad and you run off and cry. It's not getting you a damn thing.

 

Switch strategies. Go out. Spend time with the kids. Talking is getting you nothing here.

 

Unless you want to schedule MC.

 

 

I know. But that one is hard. I've been trying to do my own thing... but I'm in a snow state, and with the bad weather, that's hard. If it was even a little warmer... I have a bunch of hobbies that could eat up all my free time.

 

You are correct. Never leave your home. I think you give her what she wants. Give her Total space. You go your own way.

 

.......

 

I can tell you this. If the marriage ends it won't be the end of your world. Many go through this and come out the other side.

 

........

 

 

I'm happy to have a verification of not leaving. That's what I gut was telling me. And I know it won't be the end of me if the end of "US" comes. But I never thought this would be me. Heck... until the beginning of November, I would have told you, this was a marriage that will last forever. (She just never talked to me about the issues, ever) But thanks for the input Marc.

 

Someone who's as conflict-avoidant as you wife seems to be won't say those words. Instead, she'll tell you she needs space, it's all your fault - and take her wedding rings off.

 

Only you can decide when is when. But would you live a year in this limbo? 5 years? 10 years? As this goes on, you're modeling for your kids what a marriage looks like...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

 

I don't want it to be in limbo at all. I told her when this all came down that regardless if she thinks that it could be saved with some time... it will ultimately be self destructive because of emotions. And, that's what is happening. When I asked about her rings she said... "Over the last few months, I thought there could be hope, but then You (me) would get upset." So she is judging me based on what she is putting me though.

 

 

And no... I don't what my kids to see this as how a marriage should be. I came from a good home. (Folks hit 50 years last year) She had a widow mother who re-married, and was married to him for +30 years before he passed.

 

This comment really struck me. I was 15 years into my marriage (and very pregnant) when I was in a position to decide whether to end my marriage or stay and try to work it out. I stayed for another 17 years and showed my three daughters a very poor example of what a marriage should look like. One of the reasons it lasted another 17 years was because I refused to leave the home and so did he. My oldest is now 35, living alone with her cats. She's wasted over a decade on lousy relationships. My 29 year old does not believe in marriage and never wants children. My 23 year old is wasting her time with someone the family despises and also does not believe in marriage and never wants children - all of this because of the example we set for them.

 

Stay in your home, but if I were you, I'd be encouraging her to leave if she is not willing to put in the effort to make this marriage work.

 

 

 

I don't want my kids to be alone because of this.

 

 

I have told her to leave (to have her space) but she gets mad and says "This is my home too, and I will not leave !!"

 

 

 

 

To all: I have been trying to not show the emotions in front of her anymore. When I have had a good night's sleep... I can control them without an issue. But if it's been a couple days of no sleep... then they keep welling up.

 

 

The hand full of times where I seem to get a little breakthrough into her head is when I get pure logic, with a very "Black and white" analogy to the situation. OR... when I make things VERY REAL. Since she is on emotion, when I talk about what she needs to make this separation happen, then she backs off. SO... I'm half tempted to just tell her that we need to separate our finances when I get home from this trip. But I'm mixed on that. It could be the nail in the coffin, or it could be a wake up to her. What do you think?

[Blind-Sided]

One last thing....

 

 

a couple weeks ago, I was talking to her about what needs to happen if we start the separation, and one point was the med insurance policy be cancelled, and a new one for ONLY the kids be established, as we will spit the cost of that. She kind of got hit with the reality that she would no longer have insurance because I told her "If you aren't supporting me (emotionally), then I no longer what to support you." (Fanatically) She works, and makes about the same pay as me, but she knows it will get very expensive without a double income. At that point, she switched gears, and she knows that I have a small issue that needs minor surgery, and there was already a plan from last summer, that I would get it taken care of at the beginning of this year. (now) So her response came with a new attitude, and said... "Well, I want you to get your surgery, and I will make sure you are taken care of with the recovery".

 

 

At first, I was thinking that this could be some "Hope". But with the things that have happened, I just feel like I'm her safety net right now. She dropped the bomb on me, is being cruel, and wants her own life... but had no forethought on how to move forward without me. One thing you guys need to understand... I have a loving family who will support me, and make sure I am stable... even if I say I can't work for a while. (There is family money) Her family is hardly even supportive emotionally (other than her sister) and they don't have any money to help her.

 

 

This is also why I was thinking about separating finances. It may give her a better view of living without my paycheck.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Blind-Sided

[notbroken]

Do you want her to stay because of finances? Bad choice really. Being in a loveless relationship 'just for the kids', 'because of finances', etc are NOT the right reasons. If she doesn't love you and/or is incapable of it then move on as quickly as possible and find a way to have it work financially. You'll all be better off. BTDT.