20 years gone? [Updated Feb 25]

[Blind-Sided]

You're your own worst enemy right now. Your expectations are unrealistic, you're reacting emotionally and pushing her when she's not ready. The whole "say I love you" thing is unproductive when you're just trying to establish ground rules.

 

 

I guess you are right. It just feels like a knife twisting in my chest when it's the woman I've come to love over 20 years.

 

Is there a reason you're not going to counseling together?

 

 

Not really. When this all came down, I said I would do what she wanted, but I thought a normal "Marriage Councilor" would be a waste of time. The reason is... I'm willing to listen, and work on anything that has been brought up between us already. So... she's seeing a professional to help her with her pent up anger, and some emotional issues. (She use to see someone long ago but stopped)

 

 

Just as a re-cap... when she blew-up... she was blaming me for things that happened even before we got married. (Things I didn't remember) She also blamed me for things that eventually turned out good !!! For example, money was tight after paying taxes one year, and we went down to the freezer in the basement to see how we could stretch the groceries for a couple weeks. In doing that, we threw away A LOT of freezer burned food. (money in the trash at the moment) Also, our pantry was full, but... "We didn't have anything to eat". (lots of ingredients but nothing to finish a meal) So, I said we need to plan meals for a week at a time, and ONLY buy what we need. This worked great, and kept the shopping $$$ to a minimum until we got back on track.

 

 

OK... so during one of our "Now" arguments, she yelled at me for MAKING HER do a list for meal planning, and that was "controlling to her". My response to that was "Fine, I'm sorry, and if you don't want to do it anymore, then stop." I was then met with a "Well, it makes shopping and figuring out what we will have for dinner easier." (I can list several more like that)

 

 

So... as you can see, I'm in the middle of a Dammed if I do, Dammed If I don't situation. There's a lot of that right now... and that's why she is seeing someone by herself. She is very smart, and logical. She graduated #1 in her collage class, and when I can get her to take a step back, and to look at the situation... those are the times where there is some clarity and piece for a few days. (I think she is borderline manic at the moment)

 

 

 

 

Yelling hurtful things at each other isn't communication and it seems you both need a reset in order to truly listen to the other person. I know you're frustrated but this isn't the right way to go about it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

The "Now" arguments aren't really shouting matches. They are heated, emotional debates for the most part. They are very draining because of that. Honestly, if I could have gotten her to open up, (like this) and talk about issues as they came up over the years, we wouldn't be here now. She internalized everything. I say it like it is.

 

 

On that note... that was probably our first argument as newlyweds. I normally cooked when we first got married, but she wanted to try. I didn't care for what she made, and she was VERY upset. I wasn't mean or cruel about it, but when she asked, I told her I didn't like it. She got upset but I told her... "Am I supposed to eat something I don't like for the next 50 years?" (She didn't make it bad, I just didn't like what it was)

 

 

Hey, I didnt read your first thread, but I thought I would contribute.

 

Ease up on her. I know its frustrating but you gotta give her a chance to miss you and come to love you on her terms if its even possible. You can't logic and twist a woman to love you because its what you want. You have to be irresistible and interesting and funny and mysterious. Otherwise you are asking her to be in love with a set of instructions that has a penis. It wont work. Stop telling her you love her because you are only doing it to see if she will say it back. You probably once had a woman that was coming after you and excited about you. She can't get there with you making demands.<snip>

 

Sure... I understand all of that. But just a small recap from my other thread....

 

I thought everything was perfect, and one day she hit me with 20 years of pent up "Stuff" that has angered her. She acted like she didn't want to resolve things, and said, "I don't love you", "I fear for my safety", and she said she didn't know what to do about it. She also said "If I could make this all happen on my own, I would". (referring to the life we have now)

 

At this point, she is seeing someone, and back on her meds... but still hasn't even said... "Yes, I want this to work out".

SO... the question in my head is... Does she really want things to get better, or is she just buying time to figure out what she wants? Like I said above, she is very smart, and once in a while I can get her to look back into the situation she has created.

 

As far as counseling for me... I don't really see the point. I generally let things "Roll off my back" and don't hold grudges. Yes, I'm sad, lost, upset... so on. But to me, this is like bad tooth. if it gets fixed, the pain in gone. If it gets pulled... the pain will be gone after the healing. (now that I typed that, it's a good analogy)

 

Oh well... I need to get to a morning meeting. Thanks for listing to me.

Edited January 20, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Blind-Sided]

Hi all,

 

 

I'm packing to head home from my trip this morning. If there's any advice you can give before I get home... I would love to hear it. I know I'm my own worst enemy because of my own thoughts... I would love to know what to do about that.

 

 

Is there any way to rebuild the trust? I just feel that the last 20 years have been a lie because of the way she has handled all of this. To me, this is a HUGE point. Even if I get home and she says clearly... "I want it all to work"... How can I believe her, since she already said if she could do it on her own, she would? (would this just be her keeping her true feelings in again to keep the life she has made)

 

 

If nothing else... I'll give you an update later tonight.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for listening to me. I've gotten more self peace chatting here than chatting with the one local friend I felt I could open up to.

[BaileyB]

I'm packing to head home from my trip this morning. If there's any advice you can give before I get home... I would love to hear it. I know I'm my own worst enemy because of my own thoughts... I would love to know what to do about that.

 

My advice is, as soon as you get home... Find a good individual counsellor for yourself, and if you hope to save your marriage make an appointment to see a marriage counsellor.

 

And, set the absolute ground rule with your wife that there will be absolutely no arguing or hurtful comments made in front of your children. That simply can not happen again.

 

Good luck!

[Blind-Sided]

Well..........I'm sitting here at 5am typing. I got home yesterday, and was hopping for any sign that things would be different... but nope. She was acting distant, and the same as when I left. But, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I waited until the kids went to bed. After about an hour.... I got up and started to head to bed... but I stopped to ask... "did you come to any conclusions while I was gone?" I was met with the same crap. "You are tying to push me into an answer"

 

What it comes down to is....

1) She says she doesn't love me anymore.

2) She knows she can't continue life as she has become accustom to without me part of it.

3) Doesn't want to disturb the kids life.

 

She actually had the balls to say "People stay together for a long time until things get worked out." (WTF) My response was "There is still a glimmer of hope, and there is still some love". Heck, she still hasn't even said that she want's to work on things. She basically just wants me to be OK that she doesn't love me, and wont' show me any affection, but still wants use to live together like room mates. I've had one hour sleep, but I couldn't just lay back in the room anymore. Right now my ring has come off my finger, and I'm going to ask for her's back.

 

What a figgen waste of time. I don't just mean the last 2 months... I mean the last 20 years.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Blind-Sided]

My advice is, as soon as you get home... Find a good individual counsellor for yourself, and if you hope to save your marriage make an appointment to see a marriage counsellor.

 

And, set the absolute ground rule with your wife that there will be absolutely no arguing or hurtful comments made in front of your children. That simply can not happen again.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I would love for this to work out... but she really doesn't at this point. She actually said "We can go to a marriage councilor together." My response back was "Do you want to give it an honest try, or is this just going to be another ploy to extend the inevitable?" I can't force her to love me. I know that sounded one sided... but for the past 2 months I've done nothing other than to try to figure out the core of the problem, and I've offered so many possible solutions. She simply will not agree to anything because of the lack of love. I would go to the councilor with her if I though there was really any chance of it changing things. But without at least a small amount of love... how can I even get through a couple days?

 

 

Before I tried to go to sleep last night... I told her once again that it was 100% her choice on what happens to this family. (despite my best efforts to save things) heck... she couldn't even say "Good Night" to me. She's just mad to her core, and I've become the target of all that is bad over the past 20 years.

 

 

 

 

I think on some level it would have been easier to find out she was cheating on me. At least I would know why I was upset. This relation ship literally went from "I love you" one day to "The love is gone" the next.

[BaileyB]

Perhaps I’ve missed this, but is it possible that she has another man on the side? That’s often the case in situations like this...

 

Regardless, you wife has been very clear with you what she wants. Either you accept her terms, or make other arrangements to divorce. I’m sorry.

[elaine567]

She actually said "We can go to a marriage councilor together."

 

 

If you want this to work out then you need to go to MC together.

 

 

I think it would be a good idea if you arranged IC for yourself too.

[Blind-Sided]

Perhaps I’ve missed this, but is it possible that she has another man on the side? That’s often the case in situations like this...

 

 

We've touched on that here... but I really can't find any evidence of that.

 

Regardless, you wife has been very clear with you what she wants. Either you accept her terms, or make other arrangements to divorce. I’m sorry.

 

 

Yes and no. YES... she's clear that the love is gone... but NO... she won't say what she wants. The MC was just after I got back from this trip.

 

If you want this to work out then you need to go to MC together.

 

 

I think it would be a good idea if you arranged IC for yourself too.

 

 

I understand, and you've been a nice clear voice in this. (thank you) but I really don't think this is an honest gesture from her. Just buying time. Let's be honest here... for a MC to have a chance to work, both sides need to have to want it to work. Right? Last night I asked her if she is really looking for this to have a positive resolution. Guess what???? She couldn't answer me. (no surprise there) If come back to my other thread... All I'm looking for is an answer to the question.... "Is there hope, or is there no hope?" I'm not looking for a time line, or a promise.... just a direction. She dropped all of this on me 2 months ago, and offered no resolution, and "Needs more time to figure it out"... but she is bring up stuff that+17 years old.

 

 

As far as the IC for me... Don't really need it. I will recover if she just makes a choice. Right now, she is being cruel to me.

[BaileyB]

YES... she's clear that the love is gone... but NO... she won't say what she wants.

 

As far as the IC for me... Don't really need it. I will recover if she just makes a choice. Right now, she is being cruel to me.

 

She has been clear to you. She does not love you, she will not be affectionate toward you - she is barely being civil toward you. For all intent and purpose, your marriage is over. She is staying only for the lifetyle that your provide and “for the children” - which is a convenient excuse that makes it somehow acceptable for her to use you to maintain her current lifestyle.

 

That’s clear as day - I’m just not sure you are ready to accept it.

 

I think IC would be a GREAT idea for you. Unless something changes with the meds, MC would be a total waste of money, considering that she has been quite clear that she has no intention of changing anything or re-investing in the marriage.

Edited January 12, 2019 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

MC would be a total waste of money, considering that she has been quite clear that she has no intention of changing anything or re-investing in the marriage.

 

She is angry and she is lashing out over years of resentment, but she has suggested going to MC and I think the OP will regret it if he doesn't at least try.

They need to hash things out in a neutral space.

[Blind-Sided]

Unfortunately for me... I think you are both right. Yes, she is clear about the loss of love, but wanting to maintain this lifestyle. Yes... I will regret if I don't try. At this point, what's a few hundred $$$ ? As I've said, I'm no angel, but she is VERY smart, and if she hears that she is being unreasonable from someone else... she may actually reconsider her stance.

 

Right now, she is trying to get some work done, and I'm looking after the kids. I'll ask her if she has a name or recommendation, and I'll see if she can book a visit to a MC. Just for my knowledge.... if things go perfectly... how many visits should I expect? Obviously, if it's not going right... then we part ways. (can't believe I'm in this situation)

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Mr. Lucky]

Just for my knowledge.... if things go perfectly... how many visits should I expect?

 

Somewhere between 1 and 100.

 

I'm kidding obviously, but your approach is flawed. There's no "cured", there's only "progress" or "no progress". Blind-Sided, it took you 20 years to get to this point, you won't get an answer in 20 days. If memory serves me correctly (was a long time ago), my ex and I went a dozen times or so before we decided to divorce.

 

If getting your marriage back on track is important to you, be prepared to be patient and persistent. No easy fixes...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Blind-Sided]

Sure... I realize that it's not like going to the Dr for a checkup. But I didn't know if there was a target. Basically, I don't want to get someone who just wants to pad their checking account. (if you know what I mean) But I guess realistically... a few visits just to see if she will head the right direction. But thanks for the input of "A dozen times" to make the choice.

 

FYI... it was a very lucid and peaceful day. She got up this morning and apologized for the way she was last night. But, since I only had an hour sleep, I wasn't very receptive. (early) but later I accepted her apology. Maybe her new meds are kicking in, and she is becoming more aware. (can only hope)

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[S2B]

How can you be sure she isn’t cheating?

 

She’s acting like a cheater.

[chryssy83]

You know I think you’re pushing her too hard honestly. If you want to be with her start going to counseling and doing what you can to build intimacy and affection. Stop just demanding that she promise to be as committed as you want her to be. Take what she’s willing to give and try to grow it into what you want. But you can’t just command her to love you, enough of those demands and she will just leave altogether, lifestyle be damned.

[Marc878]

It seems from your posts you are giving her 100% control over whether to stay with you or not. IMO that's a very weak stance to take. This is your life too isn't it?

 

Maybe you should make a decision.

[vla1120]

I think she is giving you clues that you are not picking up on. Take the meal planning, for example. You said it saved your family money. She said she no longer wanted to do it and said it felt like you were controlling her. If you were NOT trying to control her "chores", then you could have said. "Okay, I'll take over the meal planning for awhile. It's my turn."

 

I'm hearing you say that she needs therapy. You do not need therapy because you are generally happy. Hmmm. My husband used to say the same thing. I was the one with problems that needed resolving because I had depression and anxiety. If I just fixed myself, we would be fine because there was nothing wrong with him. Therapy does not always mean you have a mental health issue. Think of it more as a mediator. If YOU go to MARRIAGE COUNSELING with your wife, it is showing her that you believe the marriage is important enough for you to work on. Otherwise, what she is seeing from you is "The problems are all yours. I'm perfect the way I am." No one is perfect.

 

Finally, if you really DO love her, then give her the time and space she is asking for, and provide the support that she needs from you right now, instead of pressuring her to say "I love you" when she is not feeling it right now. Those three words are very easy to say, and she could just blurt them out to appease you. Instead, she's being honest about where she is in this marriage. She is doing what she should be doing to try to save is marriage. Your part is to give her medication and therapy time to kick in, and participate in that therapy, both couples and maybe even individual.

[Blind-Sided]

Just an update because I feel like I need to talk to someone. As others have said... there's no miracle cure, and there needs to be time to get things to work. Not to mention... it seems like her new meds need upward of 6 weeks to take full effect. Also... she is now seeing a councilor. I told her I would be willing to go to a MC, but I also said to her that nothing that she has asked of me is impossible or even hard to do. But then she starts to get upset and gives me the "Do you know how many years I put up with all of this?" Then my response is "Yes, and I'm sorry... but the past is in the past, and we need to move forward."

 

So... back to the main issue. She can't give me an answer to the simple question... "Do you want to try to fix things?" (Do you want it to work) Because of that, we still float in this limbo stage, and even that causes an emotional flair-up, and while it can end OK... it's still another "Hurt" that she will put away for later. (If you know what I mean)

 

For a recap, we had a very good week. The house environment was happy, and things felt like "Normal." But on Friday night... we were starting to fool around a little in the bedroom, and then all the sudden I hear an angry voice. I won't go into details, but before this even began to head to the intimate direction, I asked if she was ok with it. (Giving her that control) I stopped, and left the bedroom in tears. When she came out, I told her that all she has in hate in her heart, and really don't want to heal. AND, I told her she could have simply said that she wasn't ready... BEFORE we started to do anything. Needless to say... Saturday sucked

 

 

SO... now on to Sunday. The night before, the kids asked if they could have blueberry muffins for breakfast, and the wife said "Yes". With that said... I'm a morning person, and the wife likes to sleep a little on the weekends. Also, one of the things she has been mad about, and asked me to do, is to be more helpful with the household chores. So, I got up, got my coffee, and made up the batch of muffins. (boxed stuff) My kids got up and enjoyed them. Well... I hear an alarm go off (8am) and the wife comes out, and was crazy mad that I made the muffins. !?!?!?!?!? I don't know exactly why, but I guess in her head she thought that I was trying to "One up" her in front of the kids. She said that it was something special, and they really wanted her to make them.

 

OK... in all the years we have been married, she has never once set an alarm to get up to make a special breakfast for the kids. (and Iold her that) I also said... I didn't do it to spite you... I did it to be helpful, as you have asked me to do. And finally, I told her, if it was really something special, then all she had to do was to tell me that was her plan. Of coarse, this turned into an hour long debate, with her crying, and me in the wrong. So... once more hurt I guess. And another "Dammed if I do, Dammed if I don't".

 

Got to go... she has sat down close to me. UGHHHHHHHH !!!!!!

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[S2B]

Why are you putting up with her crappy behavior? Her ability to NOT answer you is her answer!

 

NO, she doesn’t intend to make it work with you! In fact, she’s doing a darn good job of making sure it doesn’t work!

 

Stop it! No loving relationship looks like this! She is cruel and mean. Make it stop.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Blind-Sided]

Responses to the above...

S2b: You are right... Just doesn't seem like it. As before, I've checked into things, and have no proof.

 

Chryssy: I may be pushing, but as I've said... this relationship is in a self destructing mode right now because she can't even answer the simple question of "Do you want it to work out?" Also, since she has been bring stuff up from the beginning, and saying this is a long time coming... she has had a long time to think about it. I'm not looking for instant love again... I'm simply looking for a choice. MC will only work if both sides want it to work. Right now, I feel it's one sided.

 

Marc: Yes... I feel you are right. But I don't want it to be over, and neither do the kids.

 

VLA: I think you need to reread that post. She said it was controlling, but when I said to stop... she said that she actually liked it, and it was helpful !! But I'm still being blamed for it. Also, the original reason for it was, money was tight after sending in taxes at the end of the year. She could have stopped after we were stable again.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Blind-Sided]

Why are you putting up with her crappy behavior?

Because I love her, and our family.

She is cruel and mean. Make it stop.

Unfortunately... you are right. I've even told her that. All the years of crap that she is saying that she has put up with from me were unintentional, since I didn't know. (I've told her that if she didn't like something in the past all she had to do is tell me) Everything that I've endured in the last 2 months was intentional from her, and is cruel.

 

To all... I'm trying my best to hold things together, but it's rough. ad to Marc, I agree that I need to be strong, but sometimes backing down is the right thing too. With that said... I've told her that the longer she drags me through this... the harder I will be to deal with if she wants it to end.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[elaine567]

As others have said... there's no miracle cure, and there needs to be time to get things to work. Not to mention... it seems like her new meds need upward of 6 weeks to take full effect. Also... she is now seeing a councilor. I told her I would be willing to go to a MC, but I also said to her that nothing that she has asked of me is impossible or even hard to do. But then she starts to get upset and gives me the "Do you know how many years I put up with all of this?" Then my response is "Yes, and I'm sorry... but the past is in the past, and we need to move forward."

Wrong things to say.

You are minimising things and want to sweep it al under the carpet as if it never happened. Meanwhile she needs to get it all out there and have you truly understand her point of view.

This is years in the making - she is correct.

You can't solve this with trite and "easy" solutions, sex and taking over in the kitchen and making her feel worthless and unneeded in front of your children...

[elaine567]

<snip>I asked if she was ok with it. (Giving her that control) I stopped, and left the bedroom in tears. When she came out, I told her that all she has in hate in her heart, and really don't want to heal. AND, I told her she could have simply said that she wasn't ready... BEFORE we started to do anything. Needless to say... Saturday sucked.

Did you or she leave the bedroom in tears?

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[S2B]

Because I love her, and our family.<snip>

 

Explain to me why you actually love someone who treats you and the family unit with such disrespect and disregard? LOVE never looks like that! Is that love or is that just not wanting to make effort to end things?

 

Are you so used to being treated terribly that you beg for more abuse? Do you realize how unhealthy the marriage is? Were you abused as a child?

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Blind-Sided]

<snip>

You can't solve this with trite and "easy" solutions, sex and taking over in the kitchen and making her feel worthless and unneeded in front of your children...

As always, I appreciate the input from the other side. (sorry, assume you are a woman from the screen name) But, I'm not trying to minimize anything. I've asked her to sit down with me and go through individual things so we can address them. She told me that it would be too painful to do that, so I have no choice other than to make it a blanket apology.

Did you or she leave the bedroom in tears?

It was me. I wasn't mad because it didn't happen. I was heart broken because I thought... "Maybe she is ready to forgive and move forward." But when there was a change in the situation, during... that was just a twist of the knife... if you know what I mean.

Explain to me why you actually love someone who treats you and the family unit with such disrespect and disregard? LOVE never looks like that!

I don't disagree here. I love her because over 20 years she has been nothing other than the perfect wife. She puts herself second to me and the kids... she took care of the house, and she was generally great to be around. This all came down, and was completely unexpected. (That's why the name is blind sided)

Are you so used to being treated terribly that you beg for more abuse?

Do you realize how unhealthy the marriage is?

Were you abused as a child?

Nope... I've never been abused in any way. My folks are super supportive of me and everyone around me. As a kid... my house was the one everyone came to. Heck... my folks treat my wife more like family than her own mother does. TO be honest... my wife was the one who was kind of abused as a kid. He mother was SUPPER controlling, and still is to a point. (but she feels obligated to take care of her mother) But this is why my wife needs the counseling, and the meds. Her mother really F'ed her up.

 

At this point... even though it's killing me... I feel she has earned a little time to get her head on straight. And making posts helps me get through this.

Edited February 25, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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