Tired of incompetent husband (newlyweds)...

[Ronni_W]

How do we know he's insincere etc rather than hiding the fact that he's struggling to learn?

My take (however wrong it may be) is that birdiebee has a very good intuitive sense of her own situation, and she has not mentioned any learning struggles or disabilities, or potential thereof.

 

I've been responding to posts like these only to (try to) reassure birdiebee that I'm not against her. I will wait to see if, when and how she responds to all the posts since her last.

[basil67]

My take (however wrong it may be) is that birdiebee has a very good intuitive sense of her own situation, and she has not mentioned any learning struggles or disabilities, or potential thereof.

 

I've been responding to posts like these only to (try to) reassure birdiebee that I'm not against her. I will wait to see if, when and how she responds to all the posts since her last.

 

I hope she comes back. There have been an awful lot of "you married him knowing who he was so suck it up" posts.

[DKT3]

My take (however wrong it may be) is that birdiebee has a very good intuitive sense of her own situation, and she has not mentioned any learning struggles or disabilities, or potential thereof.

 

I've been responding to posts like these only to (try to) reassure birdiebee that I'm not against her. I will wait to see if, when and how she responds to all the posts since her last.

 

I disagree, I believe she has very little concept of the situation. I believe she sees this as his issues. I believe neither of them communicate like adults within the marriage. I dont believe her husband sees the situation as serious, neither has any clue where the other is coming from and she certainly doesn't recognize how her behavior contributes to his behavior.

[Timshel]

My take (however wrong it may be) is that birdiebee has a very good intuitive sense of her own situation, and she has not mentioned any learning struggles or disabilities, or potential thereof.

 

I've been responding to posts like these only to (try to) reassure birdiebee that I'm not against her. I will wait to see if, when and how she responds to all the posts since her last.

 

 

No one is against birdiebee..good grief. If she responds, she's a big girl taking responsibility for her own thread. OP has had all posters care about her current situation. What a sad state that we bicker among each other when the truth is, we know nothing, really.

 

 

Let birdiebee come back and speak for herself.

[Mrschaney]

Having to walk home in the rain while carrying a 30# box because he forgot is serious. He forgot about his wife. Or did he just not care? In the grocery store he didnt care enough to look up from his phone. He forgot his college paperwork or did he really not want to go to school? He literally does nothing but take out the trash. If I were the OP Id get rid of him and fast. This wont get any better.

[preraph]

Birdie,

I'm 66 years old and I have seen this sort of passive-aggressive foot-dragging acting like you do it better so you just do it behavior on me and my whole life. He was never taught to do his part. so his response is going to be that he's more traditional meaning he wants to let the wife do it most of it. you're going to have to have a very serious discussion with him about this and let him know it is a deal-breaker but at that it's something you can work on and you can help him learn. But that he will be expected to do half of it.

 

Expecting the woman to do all of it is just disrespectful. He's not disabled. He's irresponsible and acting stupid to keep from having to do this. I'm not saying he doesn't have many other fine qualities, but he's doing what he wants to do.

 

I can assure you that you cannot let this go on before getting it settled are you will be stuck with it the rest of your marriage. Now I don't believe in divorcing over house work except for one thing and that is when one person simply refuses to do it because they don't want to that it's very disrespectful to the other person and to me that is a potential reason for divorce. now you can tell him in the alternative that he can pay to hire a maid to do his share. When both people are busy, sometimes that's one way out.

[Yosemite]

OP, have you considered that he might be cheating? 3 hours at the grocery store? That’s some epic passive aggressive behavior or it could be that he’s not even at the grocery store to begin with, he’s with the other woman. Then once he’s done with her, he rushes in the store and grabs whatever and pretends to be too confused by grocery shopping to get what’s on the list.

 

Not trying to scare you, but it could be a possibility.

[thefooloftheyear]

I dunno….

 

Knowing a lot of younger guys over the years(Most of my staff consists of these types), Id say he's not much different than a lot of them.. The way younger guys/boys are raised over the last 30 years or so, has produced a bumper crop of these guys.. Not all, but many, IME..

 

Maybe women need to expect less, so they wont get disappointed../? If he can hold down a job and not lay on the couch all day getting stoned, then perhaps that should be sufficient?? (I am being a bit tongue in cheek here, )

 

Pretty much gone are the days when you had guys that did it all, practically...Big earners and ample providers, could shoulder the burden of sole provider if desired, fix everything in and around the house, cars, etc, kept their place neat and clean, handled the finances(with spousal involvement). made solid executive decisions for his family...

 

I dunno what the answer is for the OP...If she loves him and sees him as a good guy, them maybe just accept what you have...Its not like you will find a lot of guys like I just described...Most of us are nearing retirement..

 

TFY

[Mr. Lucky]

Yeah. Did you read my entire comment? You were the only one to give me specific things to try and I noted that. Even thanked you. Please, read the entire thing, before you comment!

 

I’m going to guess this is the same attitude the husband sees all day every day.

 

Chicken or egg...

 

Mr. Lucky

[elaine567]

OP, have you considered that he might be cheating? 3 hours at the grocery store? That’s some epic passive aggressive behavior or it could be that he’s not even at the grocery store to begin with, he’s with the other woman. Then once he’s done with her, he rushes in the store and grabs whatever and pretends to be too confused by grocery shopping to get what’s on the list.

 

Not trying to scare you, but it could be a possibility.

 

Yes and it may account for "forgetting" to do things, his disengagement, and the preoccupation with his phone too...

[Happy Lemming]

OP, have you considered that he might be cheating? 3 hours at the grocery store?

 

This is actually a viable possibility. When I go to the grocery store, I go down every aisle, check the clearance bin, read labels, compare prices, look at the weekly circular, talk to the butcher, double check my shopping list, etc. etc.

 

Even with all this extra activity, I get the job done in about an hour. There is no way I could triple that amount of time.

 

You may be on to something, "Yosemite"...

[elaine567]

This is actually a viable possibility. When I go to the grocery store, I go down every aisle, check the clearance bin, read labels, compare prices, look at the weekly circular, talk to the butcher, double check my shopping list, etc. etc.

 

Even with all this extra activity, I get the job done in about an hour. There is no way I could triple that amount of time.

I think an hour for a decent sized shop plus travelling time is about the average.

Online supermarket shopping plus collect or delivery if available can be a life saver for working people too, though I guess the OP will end up organising it.

[anika99]

Just read this thread and I see a lot of posters talking about chores. How to divvy up chores, how to teach someone else to do chores, etc. However this isn't even about chores and the OP even said that herself at least a couple of times on the first page.

 

OP I think you are talking about a much deeper issue than housework and grocery shopping. He forgot to cancel a subscription that ended wrecking your food budget. He "forgot" to send in a school application. He "forgot" to pick you up and left you to walk home in the rain. The issue I see here is much more serious than "my man won't pick up his dirty laundry". The things he doesn't do are things that have real consequences and that negatively impact both of you, all under the guise of forgetfulness.

 

"I forgot" is never an excuse. For one thing most normal healthy young people have a normal heathy memory and most people don't forget things that are important to them. He forgot to pick you up but I bet if he had something fun to do that day he wouldn't have forgot to go do it. People who truly do have faulty memorys know that about themselves and take steps to help them remember. They write things down or set reminders on their phone.

 

I think I understand how you feel. I spent years living with an alcoholic. He was actually really good about sharing chores and cooking responsibilities but he screwed up a lot on the important stuff like not overspending, paying bills, keeping appointments. He would mess up and I would do my best to fix it. He would overspend and I would rework the budget to make up for it. Pay a little less on this bill, pay a little less on that bill, do without this, do without that. He would miss an important appointment and I would call and make excuses for him while rescheduling. I wrote resumes for him, filled in forms for him, did his taxes. Anytime he had a problem he would run to me and ask me "what do I do"?

 

During our last year together I remember having a conversation with him where I told him that I needed some of the support I gave him. That he always came to me for help but I didn't feel like I had anyone to turn for help. When I had a problem there was no sense in turning to him because he wouldn't know what to do. It made me feel alone and lonely. He worked and he helped around the house but I couldn't count on him for the things that mattered most, I didn't get any sense of security from the relationship and it was exhausting always have to do the thinking for both of us.

 

This is going to be a big problem in your marriage unless your husband somehow admits he has a problem and does something to fix it. I'm sorry that I don't have any helpful advice but I do know how you feel. It's not about who does the dishes, it's about feeling supported, about feeling like your spouse can be there for you the same way you are there for them.

[Poutrew]

Poor guy can't ride a unicycle and balance a twirling plate at the end of a stick at the same time... divorce is the only option - if he wants to be happy.

[Karanne]

Thefooloftheyear is dead on with analysis of this generation of men.

Knowing this, you can accept your SO is part of this or leave him for an older man. Or move to the South where hard working country boys abound or extreme Northwest where independent men and cowboys live.

Yes, that sounds absurd if you really love him so, work it out.

[DKT3]

Thefooloftheyear is dead on with analysis of this generation of men.

Knowing this, you can accept your SO is part of this or leave him for an older man. Or move to the South where hard working country boys abound or extreme Northwest where independent men and cowboys live.

Yes, that sounds absurd if you really love him so, work it out.

 

Funny because the south has and has for decades had the highest unemployment rate in the US.

 

Sadly the overall sentiment is true, this generation seems awful lazy and unwilling to work at anything,. Be it a career or relationship.

[preraph]

Funny because the south has and has for decades had the highest unemployment rate in the US.

 

Sadly the overall sentiment is true, this generation seems awful lazy and unwilling to work at anything,. Be it a career or relationship.

 

I think the border states with massive amounts of unskilled illegal immigrants who can't get a legit job and are on welfare is the reason for that and won't apply in this situation. I realize if you don't live in a border state, you can't see how obvious that is.

 

So yes, in general, people in the south work very hard and have good work ethics, but moving here won't magically change a slacker.

[DKT3]

I think the border states with massive amounts of unskilled illegal immigrants who can't get a legit job and are on welfare is the reason for that and won't apply in this situation. I realize if you don't live in a border state, you can't see how obvious that is.

 

So yes, in general, people in the south work very hard and have good work ethics, but moving here won't magically change a slacker.

 

We are veering off subject, but those states highest dont have significant illegal immigrants, not to mention they dont count against unemployment.

[William]

Off topic veer accepted, let's veer back onto the topic of an incompetent husband. Thanks!

[clia]

I feel for you, OP. You've married a child. As you tried to point out, this goes above and beyond "he won't do housework" and into the realm of you having to take care of every single adult thing in the relationship. You provided a list of things he is good at and while there are some nice things on the list, none of them translate into the practical skills necessary to run a household and a life, short of taking out the trash each week. I completely understand why you are exhausted and frustrated.

 

I can assure you this will not get any better if you don't try to combat it now. And even then, it still may not get better. The first step is to have a serious discussion with your husband about how this is affecting you and your marriage. Provide explicit examples to show him what you are talking about. Tell him you need him to step up to the plate and start to contribute to your lives in a meaningful way. Show him a general list of the things involved in running the household so he understands the breadth of what you have been doing. Ask him how you can help him contribute. Maybe even ask him what things he would like to do or what things he thinks he might be good at doing rather than just assigning him things. Make sure he understands that you don't like doing these things either -- no one likes cleaning the bathroom or doing their taxes, etc., but they are things that someone has to do and they need to be done. And you are tired of being the only one who does them.)

 

In a way, you have enabled him in his behavior. He's incompetent, so you just take care of things. He's gotten used to that. And I'm not saying I blame you at all -- you know if you leave it to him it won't get done. But, to the extent that you can, stop enabling him. Not with everything, and certainly not things that will really adversely affect you or your life (like paying bills), but start easy. He needs to learn how to do things -- to fail and then figure out how to fix the problem, etc. It's unfortunate his parents never taught him these things.

 

Let him start doing his own laundry. Show him how to do it once and then leave it at that. If he doesn't do it, then it's his problem. He's the one that has to wear dirty clothes.

 

Let him do the grocery shopping. Who cares if it takes him three hours? If he does it more often, he should become more comfortable and efficient at it. While I understand your concern that it takes away from your time together, set that aside for now. He will learn that if he wants that time with you, he needs to be more efficient at the grocery shopping.

 

Let him plan your next (short!) vacation. Just let him do it. If he screws it up, he screws it up. Remain calm, don't yell at him, let him figure it out.

 

Tell him he's in charge of making dinner once or twice a week. Let him figure it out. Direct him to You Tube or hand him a cookbook. If it turns out horrible, so be it. He'll learn. (Just make sure you have a backup meal you can make!)

 

Let him clean the bathroom. Tell him what he needs to do one more time, if necessary, and let him go. (I don't understand why it's hard to figure out that you need to clean off all the surface, so to be honest some of this stuff sounds like him just being lazy and passive aggressive.) If he doesn't do it, then you can ask him why he is having such a problem with it.

 

Think of other things he can do that aren't life or death to your household. Start small. When he fails, don't yell at him or get upset. Let him figure out how to fix the problem.

 

Maybe over time you can get him to a point where he is contributing enough that you aren't totally resentful and you feel like you can live with it.

 

All of that said, if he is unwilling to work with you on this, you may need to think about if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life. You mentioned having kids above, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this will not get better with kids, and on top of everything you are doing now you will be 100% responsible for everything kid related. It's a lot.

 

Good luck, OP.

[thefooloftheyear]

With all the talk of equality, maybe it's time for women to just accept men for who they are...Over the last few decades, families have seemingly put more effort and attention to their daughters as they normally do better in school, get accepted to better colleges, etc...Their sons? They get the scraps, it seems...

 

For eons, no one really said too much negative about women when guys were breaking their asses, doing and paying for practically everything, while women contributed nothing, or very little to the household bills...No one was calling those women "women-child"...As long as they kept a relatively neat appearance, did a half assed job with the housework, and cooking, etc..It was considered all good...I never heard much of "I am so tired of incompetent wife"...

 

I mean, sure, many took care of kids and I would never diminish that....But a lot didn't...And even when the kids got old enough, they still settled into doing very little to contribute, and relied on their men to do all of the heavy lifting.....And it was considered ok and I dont remember many complaining about it...

 

Understand I am not trying to pit one gender against another...

 

But maybe the thinking has to change...Like I stated in my earlier post...I don't know any younger guys that did what we did...They aren't willing and in many cases, aren't able...So maybe it's time to set the bar lower...Maybe women should do what men have done for decades/centuries...Get the best looking mate you can and don't worry about what they can or can't do and just accept them for who they are...If you think you are going to get the same man today that your dad was(or may have been), well, you can forget that...Those guys are like unicorns now..

 

TFY

Edited December 10, 2018 by thefooloftheyear

[d0nnivain]

birdiebee

 

DH & I just celebrated 10 years of marriage but I have to confess that 1st year was ROUGH. It was a change, being married. We both had to learn to live with the other & figure out how to function as a team.

 

Over the summer I posted this thread because I was frustrated about my husband's grocery shopping:

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/659461-husband-duped-not-paying-attention Although petty, my complaint is similar to yours -- how can a grown man not have this life skill?

 

For now you are just going to have continue to teach, to be patient & to let him learn at his own pace. It's frustrating. It's scary. It's part of growing together as a couple. It's not going to be fixed over night but approach all the frustration from a loving place . . .how can we overcome this together? In time & I mean more than a year, not just 90 days, you two will find a path, a pattern, a division of labor that works for you. Hang in there.

[Els]

Well, this is why I've always been a supporter of living together before getting married. There is a LOT that you'd only learn about someone when you live together - it's generally a good idea to learn those things BEFORE vowing "til death do us part". But that's done and over with now, so moving forward...

 

OP, I don't think your expectations are unreasonable, but surely you had to have some inkling of this possibility before you married him? IMO, most men don't go straight from their mother's house to their wife's house as fully functional adults. While this can be the case for people of both genders, it tends to be worse for men because the older generation still sometimes treats their sons differently from their daughters, not expecting equal chore responsibility of the sons. Of course, other factors like affluence/type of parents/number of siblings matter too, as you've seen. But either way, it really is preferable that a person live by themselves for a few years first (even if it's just a houseshare in college) before cohabitating or getting married.

 

So, you made the mistake of marrying a boy right out of mommy's nest, unfortunately. Not all is lost, though. IF he is willing to learn, I think it is OK for you to invest a year or so into teaching him. Yes, it will suck. Yes, it's frustrating, and yes, he SHOULD know all of this already. But none of that changes the fact that this is where you are. If he's a good person and a good partner in general, I think it's worth the investment.

 

Do NOT do those things for him, unless it's part of a pre-negotiated arrangement (i.e. if he does all the cleaning and you do all the cooking). Even if it takes an hour to show him and 30 minutes to do it yourself, take the hour to show him. Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish, and all that. Also, don't prevent him from facing the consequences of screwing up. If he doesn't do the laundry, he'll eventually run out of clothes to wear. If he doesn't iron his own clothes, he'll be struggling with an iron at 7am. That's life, that's what most of us learn when we move out for the first time. Do your best to allow him to have that experience, even if you're living with him.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Elswyth

[elaine567]

 

Do NOT do those things for him, unless it's part of a pre-negotiated arrangement (i.e. if he does all the cleaning and you do all the cooking). Even if it takes an hour to show him and 30 minutes to do it yourself, take the hour to show him. Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish, and all that. Also, don't prevent him from facing the consequences of screwing up. If he doesn't do the laundry, he'll eventually run out of clothes to wear. If he doesn't iron his own clothes, he'll be struggling with an iron at 7am. That's life, that's what most of us learn when we move out for the first time. Do your best to allow him to have that experience, even if you're living with him.

 

 

Chores are not the crux of the matter here.

As the OP said

This is not about him not doing _chores_.

[Els]

Chores are not the crux of the matter here.

As the OP said

 

 

Much of this advice can be applied to non-chore errands, i.e. subscription services or government papers. Chores are just an example.