Tired of incompetent husband (newlyweds)...

[birdiebee]

The bolded is just..I should say beneath you.

 

 

OP, you did marry this man knowing his faults, shortcomings as a couple. There is nothing wrong with ironing out some wrinkles in the first few years of marriage.

Talk to your husband, be honest about how this is effecting your relationship.

 

Yeah, some

[basil67]

Killing spiders is a pretty important contribution <joke>

 

I'm going to be blunt and suggest that his level of inability to learn new skills in the domestic realm is in the level of what I'd see in the disability sector. Question is, is he being passive aggressive in his refusal (I'm so hopeless, she won't make me do it) or does he have a mild intellectual disability? With him forgetting to paperwork, could there be any other issues at play? ADD or ADHD comes to mind. Traumatic brain injury in his past? Dyslexia? Is he literate - have you ever seen him read? You mention not doing taxes...is he numerically literate? How did he perform at school?

 

If I were you, I'd be sitting down with him and instead of talking about all the stuff he doesn't do, ask in a caring way what's going on. Is he genuinely not remembering how to do a simple task if you've already taught him once? Getting lost for hours in the supermarket could easily be connected to being functionally illiterate. How does he feel about not being able to do these things? The goal of this conversation is not about the fact he's not doing things, it's about identifying the roadblocks to learning new skill sets and getting things done.

 

If he's genuinely struggling, there are services to help build capacity. I'm happy to talk more with you.

Edited December 8, 2018 by basil67

[Timshel]

Yeah, some

 

 

Alright then, 'some,' that's a fair start. Birdiebee, the thing about marriage isn't if you are wrong or right, it is where you are right now, is it not?

 

 

It isn't that I don't understand your angst but putting blame and keeping score won't have a contented marriage for you or your husband. Take ownership of the ways you have. Own it. 'I like things a certain way and when it isn't I am non pleased (and everything that goes with it.)'

 

 

Marriage is a long haul investment. It requires communication and love.

 

 

A friend of mine, who has been married for quite a while told me that his wife did not appreciate his yelling when they had a disagreement. He said that one day when he lost his cool, she took off all her clothes and said 'carry on.' LOL He said it was the last time he raised his voice.

 

 

Find what works for you, get marriage counseling if needed. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[preraph]

Well, you better use birth control until you find out if he's ever going to grow up and do his part, because if he isn't, once you have a child and he's acting like the second child, that's when the divorce is going to sound good to you, and that's a little too late.

[BaileyB]

 

A list of what my husband is good at:

- He takes out the garbage every day

- He comforts me and never ignores my tears

- He comes up with the nicest gifts

- He's clever and tells funny stories

- He's not a selfish lover

- He knows how to save money

- He listens to everyone

- He respects everyone

- He's creative

- He's wild

- He's brave

 

List goes on and on.

 

This is about me being afraid of our future. I'm scared to be burdened with 70% of the things in our life. I'm scared to have kids, because I fear I will be the one taking care of everything.

 

 

Well, that sounds like a pretty great list, to be honest.

 

Like everything in relationships, the division of labour is negotiated. A successful marriage is built on teamwork and compromise. People struggle when they raise their expectations and then stop talking only to throw their hands up in frustration when their expectations are not met.

 

If you are starting with this kind of a list, do you not think it's possible to show him how to wash the dishes, vacuum the floor, and fold the laundry.

 

I'm sorry, I have not read all your comments... but if you haven't sat down with him to talk about how you are feeling and negotiate a division of labour that helps you to feel like you have a partner, not a dependant, that would be the place to start. Just make sure, as everyone is saying, your expectations are reasonable...

[Ronni_W]

I mentioned tax forms and student loans. <snip> Last month, he forgot to cancel a subscription to some page and that cost us our entire food budget (yes, money's tight). <snip>

All he had to do was send the school his earlier diplomas and some other papers.<snip> But he forgot about it. <snip> He was supposed to come and pick me up, but he forgot.

So I had to walk home alone with the 30lb box, in pouring rain. <snip> When we shop together, he disengages himself completely, because he relies on me 100%.

<snip>

But can you honestly tell me that the situations I just described are from a normal marriage? That this is the way a husband should act towards his wife.

I'm wondering if I could do something to motivate him?

Yikes! That is very different, isn't it? Thanks for taking the time to paint a fuller picture; I'm sure it's not easy to have to keep going over it in your mind.

 

My first husband was quite a bit like this. (And also my mom, and my brother, and a number of other people in my 'intimate circle'.)

After lots of therapy and introspection, I came to realize that their behaviour is passive-aggressive -- they just pretend to want to do their part, and to be helpful,

but really they're looking for us to say, "Ah, just forget...I'll do it myself...but, really, thanks so much for trying!"

 

As you can see from my experience, such attitudes and behaviour are not related to marriage or the husband-wife dynamic. It will put added stress on you if you only look at it from that perspective.

 

Given that your hubby was equally happy to let his mom do all his cooking, cleaning and laundry for him, you have plenty of evidence that this is about him and his dealings with ALL his relationships,

not just with you as his wife.

 

Unfortunately, birdiebee, I don't know that there's too much that you can do to 'motivate' him to change;

he has to truly, deeply and genuinely want to, for himself, because he realizes that he is not pulling all the weight of which he is capable,

and which he should be feeling the personal responsibility and desire to want to pull...in all levels of his own life...and not only in his relationship with you.

 

I would sincerely offer, though, to not take any of it as meaning that he does not love you.

Rather, take it as he feels entitled to have the entire rest of the world working really hard on his behalf, to make his life as easy, comfortable, secure and stress-free as possible.

 

If some of my thoughts strike a chord with you, then use them to start a constructive, non-confrontational conversation with him.

Depending on the outcome, suggest couples' counselling. Failing that, I would do individual therapy, (which, as I said, I did do,)

to sort out my own priorities in life, and to get really clear on what I will and will not put up with in my personal relationships.

 

From my own experience I know how truly difficult and disappointing it can feel. I am with you in spirit.

[Timshel]

Unfortunately, birdiebee, I don't know that there's too much that you can do to 'motivate' him to change;

he has to truly, deeply and genuinely want to, for himself, because he realizes that he is not pulling all the weight of which he is capable,

and which he should be feeling the personal responsibility and desire to want to pull...in all levels of his own life...and not only in his relationship with you.

 

 

This goes without saying. The OP is newly married and figuring out what essentially boils down to a compromise in household efforts.

 

 

The husband is not abusive, compromised in physical ability, or addicted to any drug (that we are so far aware.)

 

 

There isn't a reason to treat the OP as though this is the beginning of the end of her marriage.

[DKT3]

You dont seem open to much being said here, to me, that suggests that you aren't all that interested in him doing things, but him doing them your way. ..

 

You nag, tell then cry. It all appears to be manipulative to get him to do it how you want it done. How about communicating like an adult with a calmness that is missing in your tactical approach so far.

 

Of course he is acting the way he is, your turning into his mother. That's easy for him, it takes no adjustment on his part.

 

Here is an idea that I'm sure you will hate...stop trying to control how he does things, he is an adult so stop being his mother. If he is cleaning the kitchen, leave. Don't hover over him saying that's not right, do it like this. If he asks tell him to figure it out.

 

Like most early marriages, this is a battle for control early on. If you dont learn to let go you will drive yourself crazy...yes yourself.

 

Little example from early in my marriage, first year. Wife would ask me to do the dishes, something I hated. I accidentally broke a crystal wine glass. She rushed in, got mad and took over. Next time I (not accidentally) broke a coffee cup, again she rushed in yelling and took over. Ah ha, lesson learned pattern set. Any time she wanted, expected me to do something I didn't want to do I would mess it up, she would take over. Until she didn't. Once she stopped taking over, I stopped messing up.

 

He cant act like a child if you refuse to be his mother.

[Kitty Tantrum]

He sounds a lot like my ex.

 

We both lived with our parents before we got married. I had all of the housework skills down pat by that time, and was pretty good at budgeting, grocery shopping, menu planning... traditional women's work type stuff.

 

But I didn't know how to do any of that other stuff either. I'd never even had a job until after we got married. So things like paperwork, taxes, all that administrative-level householding stuff was new to both of us.

 

I figured we'd grow up and learn it together. Except then I was the only one who did it.

 

I was the "smarter" of the two of us, and I do have better focus (whereas he was diagnosed with ADD as a child). I learn things really quickly.

 

But he used my smarts as a reason to just dump everything on me. "You're better at it, you should be the one doing it."

 

Yeah, that argument doesn't work when you apply it to every. single. thing. and then one spouse is stuck with most of the responsibilities and obligations because the other feels justified in dropping the ball.

 

But honestly, it sounds like your hubby has some key qualities that mine was missing, that might just make this salvageable. It sounds to me like there's a good chance he just needs to learn. He can hold down a job, save money, and is mindful of the responsibilities he HAS taken ownership of. Those are all good signs in my book. It might just take some time and growing up.

 

While "keeping score" isn't exactly healthy in a marriage, equitable distribution of responsibility in marriage IS. You do need to strike a balance, based on your individual strengths and weaknesses, so that one of you isn't chronically more stressed and overworked than the other.

 

I know you said it's not about man works for money/woman does housework... but maybe it should be a little moreso? If earning money and being financially responsible is in his wheelhouse, then perhaps if he were to focus on that, and increasing his earning potential, he could take some of that off of your plate so that you have more energy and focus to put toward the things that he sucks at? I don't know what your work situation is, but if you could get into a position where his additional earning takes some pressure off of you, that might be a lot more balanced.

 

The most harmonious times in my marriage were when my ex was working full time and covering most of the expenses. He hardly did anything else (taking the trash out was the ONLY thing I asked to not have to do regularly, and he wouldn't even do that most of the time), but it was a lot easier for me to manage the household without his help while he was making most of the money, than it was when I was also working full-time and trying to divide the household stuff evenly.

[Timshel]

But can you honestly tell me that the situations I just described are from a normal marriage? That this is the way a husband should act towards his wife. I'm wondering if I could do something to motivate him? I don't know...

 

 

No, Ronni W is correct. This is not how a marriage should be. I am wrong. That's what happens when I don't read carefully.

 

 

 

You do have to talk to you husband OP. If your marriage is going to be saved, you have to let him know that it's almost over.

 

 

Marriage counseling would be a neutral place.

[Ronni_W]

There isn't a reason to treat the OP as though this is the beginning of the end of her marriage.

You missed my point...hopefully the OP won't.

 

birdiebee, if I came across as even remotely suggesting that "this is the beginning of the end of [your] marriage", please do know that that is seriously not the message that I was trying to convey -

- and please do accept my apologies if that is how it came across. Obviously, please feel free to call me out on anything, or ask for clarification. I'll do my best.

[Ronni_W]

No, Ronni W is correct. This is not how a marriage should be. I am wrong. That's what happens when I don't read carefully.

Timshel,

 

My post above (#36 at the moment), was being composed as you were posting this one.

 

At this point, I also have to retract my statement that "you missed my point".

Nevertheless, birdiebee may also read my post as you first saw it, so I still do take responsibility for any confusion or misunderstanding.

[Timshel]

Timshel,

 

My post above (#36 at the moment), was being composed as you were posting this one.

 

At this point, I also have to retract my statement that "you missed my point".

Nevertheless, birdiebee may also read my post as you first saw it, so I still do take responsibility for any confusion or misunderstanding.

 

 

I apologize, none of our efforts are perfection. Enough about us.

[Wallysbears]

You married a man-child.

 

 

Your choice is train him through it or divorce him.

[preraph]

She probably thought you did it on purpose. Breaking dishes isn't a normal part of dishwashing.

 

<snip>

 

Little example from early in my marriage, first year. Wife would ask me to do the dishes, something I hated. I accidentally broke a crystal wine glass. She rushed in, got mad and took over. Next time I (not accidentally) broke a coffee cup, again she rushed in yelling and took over. Ah ha, lesson learned pattern set. Any time she wanted, expected me to do something I didn't want to do I would mess it up, she would take over. Until she didn't. Once she stopped taking over, I stopped messing up.

 

He cant act like a child if you refuse to be his mother.

Edited December 9, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate quote

[Karanne]

According to your list of pros about him, he is a pretty good catch.

If you lost him , you would miss him and wonder why you were so concerned about him not doing household chores.

Marriage counseling is a ridiculous idea for this. You either love him for who he is or you don't.

Young people today want everything to be even. Men and women are different for a reason.

[Ronni_W]

Next time I (not accidentally) broke a coffee cup, <snip> Any time she wanted, expected me to do something I didn't want to do I would mess it up,

Right! Those are examples of what is considered, by trained professionals, passive-aggressive behaviour. Instead of being honest and direct and

saying (in whatever way), "I don't want to do that / I don't want to do that in the way that you want me to do it,"

and/or saying, "I want to talk about your reaction when I broke the crystal wine glass."

Blaming the other one for 'setting a pattern' just should not cut it, for a mentally competent, independent-thinking adult.

 

Relative to OP, only point being that one does need to find the courage to initiate -- and endure -- difficult conversations.

There isn't any other way to truly resolve and transcend relationship issues, problems, conflicts. (Not just marital/romantic relationships, but also work, friendship, whatever type of relationship.)

[Yosemite]

It's more about WHEN we clean/cook/do the groceries I'm the one who knows how to do it, while he's just kind of standing there and asking "How do you clean the bathroom, honey?"

 

He either has a mental disability and can’t learn or he’s pretending not to understand hoping that you’ll give up and just do it yourself. Cleaning a toilet and wiping down the bathroom countertop isn’t rocket science. If you’ve showed him a couple times and he’s still pretending not to know how, he’s hoping that you’ll stop asking him to help and will do it yourself. He probably doesn’t realize that he’s planting the seeds that will end the marriage. You can explain that it’s building hurt feelings and resentment in you, but he won’t take you seriously... guys like this never do until it’s too little, too late.

 

Last month, he forgot to cancel a subscription to some page and that cost us our entire food budget (yes, money's tight). 

We lived one year apart from each other and he was supposed to apply for a school. I helped him look for options and it was fine. All he had to do was send the school his earlier diplomas and some other papers.
I wanted to trust him. But he forgot about it. He could've just put a notification on his phone. But he forgot.

The other day we had to pick up a package and it was pouring rain. He was supposed to come and pick me up, but he forgot. So I had to walk home alone with the 30lb box, in pouring rain.

 

Most people would consider this unacceptable. I can understand why you’re afraid that he no longer loves you. Someone who loves you wouldn’t want you walking home in the rain carrying a heavy box, and if he truly forgot, he would feel awful and would make changes to make sure it never happened again. Changes like taking notes or putting a schedule/alert in his phone…basically acting like a responsible adult, but he hasn’t…which isn’t a good sign.

 

You can talk to him and explain how you feel over and over till your blue in the face but he won’t make any changes or take you seriously because he doesn’t want to take on the responsibilities that come with being an adult. Your resentment for him will build and your love for him will slowly die and only after you leave him will he jump up and try to make changes, but by then it will be too late.

 

Set a time period in your mind that you’re willing to work with him like 6 months – 1 year. During that time, explain things to him, help him set reminders and ask him to take responsibility, be very clear with him about how you feel. If he hasn’t changed by the end of the 6 months, either accept that this is how he is and always will be or divorce.

[Gretchen12]

Do you suspect he is "on strike?" Is he taking your requests tasks seriously or blowing you off? Is he "forgetting" too often? Are you being heard?

Btw that's a great list of things you like about him!

Edited December 9, 2018 by Gretchen12

[Ronni_W]

He either has a mental disability and can’t learn or he’s pretending not to understand hoping that you’ll give up and just do it yourself.

The latter; disingenuousness. But it also is that the person on the other side of that, (birdiebee, in this case, and me, in my case), has something to learn about ourself,

in relation to the people whom we are attracting into our lives.

 

He probably doesn’t realize that he’s planting the seeds that will end the marriage. <snip> [People like this] never do until it’s <snip> too late.

At the risk of seeming guilty of what Timshel said, that is it, exactly. And it is why I think that going the extra mile to have that difficult conversation is worth it.

This guy has somehow at least got to be made to understand what he stands to lose. He deserves that, at least...but only to the extent of the best of birdiebee's emotional resources...

...BUT, if he won't or can't or doesn't want to hear it...then that is and always will be totally on him.

Edited December 9, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
grammar

[basil67]

The latter; disingenuousness.

 

How do you *know* that it's about laziness? We know nothing about his education level. We don't know if he's literate. We don't know if he's ADD. Imagine if it was one of these issues and he was written off as being too lazy.

 

I saw too much of that back when I was in high school - especially with kids who were undiagnosed ADD. I thought we'd moved past it.

[basil67]

Young people today want everything to be even. Men and women are different for a reason.

 

Young people today??? Even my 80yo parents do an even amount of work. Mum runs the house and dad does the finances and physical labour. The OPs partner apparently contributes nothing practical.

 

In the world of disability, we'd be throwing a heap of resources at him to teach him to manage a household. But apparently you expect OPs husband to be held to lower standards than a disabled person because he's a man?

[Karanne]

Exactly! Mom runs house and Dad does physical labor. Dad doesn't run household AND do physical labor chores.

[Ronni_W]

How do you *know* that it's about laziness?

Hi basil67. That is not my understanding nor usage of the word 'disingenuousness'. <sigh>.

 

birdiebee, I used the word in context of "Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating", and also "lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere".

(My 'Google' must be acting up, because those are the highest page rankings that it is returning to me.)

[basil67]

Hi basil67. That is not my understanding nor usage of the word 'disingenuousness'. <sigh>.

 

birdiebee, I used the word in context of "Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating", and also "lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere".

(My 'Google' must be acting up, because those are the highest page rankings that it is returning to me.)

 

My apologies. How do we know he's insincere etc rather than hiding the fact that he's struggling to learn? And before you jump on the fact that him hiding that he can't learn is in itself lacking in frankness, a quick glance at the assumptions on this thread is why people hide the fact that they are struggling.