What is better for kids? Divorce? Roommates?

[Mr. Lucky]

Yes it will hurt the kids and yes they will adapt. The way a tree grows around a piece of metal. Or the way the body heals from an amputation. That's what I can most relate it to.

 

I think that's a great analogy. You eventually get to a "new normal", but it's a painful and disruptive journey that occurs neither at the rate we'd like it to nor based on the expectations we had in place.

 

Kind of like life in general ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TheRainbow]

If I learned anything about marriage, is it is hard work. Take away all the issues that I'm working on, my experience is often life gets busy and you put your marriage on back burner. I have children, but I always tried to make time for my relationship. Date nights once a week, and if that isn't possible, make it a priority to hug your partner every morning, and every evening even if you don't feel like it.

[OwenW72]

What about you, any decision taken?

 

It seems to me that it has been a really long time coming for you.

 

My advise would be to pull the trigger and leave.

But I know exactly how hard it is, especially when its not really black and white. The reason for leaving sometime feel abstract, intangible and hard to grasp.

Not only you got to think about the effect on the kids but you also have to consider the effect that not seeing the kids every day might have on you( that would be the hardest thing for me)

 

The decision is simple in some ways. I will do what I believe will create the best outcome for my kids. My sense of well-being and self-worth is too intimately tied up with that of my kids to do otherwise. I'm not saying I don't have my own more selfish arguments, but I don't want those to trump the kids needs. I can't go too far down rabbit holes about how much happier I imagine I would be with someone else, or rationalize how I should be feeling better in the current relationship. Doing those things too quickly turns into fantasy and self-justification.

 

I simply know that a pre-condition for feeling good is feeling confident that I am actively working to make things better for them. If I can be a better father separated, and if I think my wife can be as good or better in separation, then I suppose it's a no-brainer. But all I have ever known is parenting together, so I'm not much of an expert on what it looks like apart. So I am taking the time to learn as much as I can before I potentially make a likely irreversible decision.

 

However poorly I may have done it, I have spent a great deal of time working on how to be better within this relationship. I am posting out here because indeed at this point, I feel exhausted with the downward trajectory of that effort. But at least I have focused a lot of time on trying to figure things out on this path. It's only been recently that I have taken a hard look at what it would mean to choose separation. And I sure as hell don't want to do something that important without doing my best to understand what it would entail, and what the unintended consequences might be.

[pepperbird]

But why would they?

Kids are only kids for a short time.

Is it good that they had to endure a ****ty and unhappy childhood for years after a divorce, so at 30 they can say Mom and Dad are now happy...?

Whoopdidoo!

At 30+ I guess most kids hardly care if Mom and Dad are happy or not, they are more concerned with dealing with their own life.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

I'm not sure where the idea came from that small children care about whether or not mommy or daddy has a fulfilling romantic life.

 

If parents are really unhappy in their marriage, then they owe it to their kids to find a way of addressing that in a way that is the least disruptive as possible. Some parents simply cant get along and shouldn't even live on the same street, let alone the same household. Others can stay together and create a loving family home.

[bathtub-row]

I say if you can hold it together, that’s the best option. Marriages get dull over time, life gets skewed. It’s to be expected after a number of years. And I do believe that if a marriage continually makes you miserable, well, at some point it’s not worth it. But only you can decide that.

 

You’re doing the right thing by being thoughtful about this. If I could’ve stayed in my marriage, I would have. Being a single parent is hard. But I don’t regret my decision to leave my marriage because I put a lot of time and thought into my decision. I hope everything works out well for you and your family.

[OwenW72]

Divorce sucks and then it gets better and then you consistently get the occasional reminders that it sucks all over again.

 

Yes it will hurt the kids and yes they will adapt. The way a tree grows around a piece of metal. Or the way the body heals from an amputation.

 

Just a fantastic way to relate it, and that gives me a really strong sense of what that would mean for all of us to go through. I appreciate that you offer so much of the bittersweet parts of your divorce experience. Just the thought of it from my side of things fills me with so many contradictory emotions its helpful to hear someone put it out there like that.

 

And my original heading is sort of misleading by framing the false question of Divorce or Roommate. I do realize and understand that healing is a path. We have worked together on it, and I think I have struggled with my own un-constructive parts in that effort. I think the reason I am at this stage of posting here is to at least evaluate two paths that I never would have chosen, but now seem like a relief from the past 5+ years of open struggle.

 

I always imagined that divorce was one of those things where one person walks out in a rage, which I suppose does happen in cases. But I never realized that one path would just be getting to a point of feeling exhausted and hopeless about doing all the things I always supposed were part of repairing and building a relationship. That, and I don't think I appreciated how the scar tissue can build up along the way, and becomes it's own weight.

[littleblackheart]

But why would they?

Kids are only kids for a short time.

Is it good that they had to endure a ****ty and unhappy childhood for years after a divorce, so at 30 they can say Mom and Dad are now happy...?

Whoopdidoo!

At 30+ I guess most kids hardly care if Mom and Dad are happy or not, they are more concerned with dealing with their own life.

 

Of course your parents' happiness matters, at any age. You've got to be particularly self-absorbed to not be affected by this. My sisters and I (and many others) have had to endure years of unadulterated shyt in the name of 'our' happiness and at 44, it makes me sad to see them still unhappy.

 

There is no one model that works for everyone - this is why OP needs to find his own way, one that suits his own situation and family.

Edited September 27, 2018 by littleblackheart

[norudder]

I agree.

 

 

I'm not sure where the idea came from that small children care about whether or not mommy or daddy has a fulfilling romantic life.

 

If parents are really unhappy in their marriage, then they owe it to their kids to find a way of addressing that in a way that is the least disruptive as possible. Some parents simply cant get along and shouldn't even live on the same street, let alone the same household. Others can stay together and create a loving family home.

 

 

I agree as well. Kids may not care about their parents happiness, and yes they are by nature absorbed in their self focused worlds, it's why little kids so often and easily blame themselves and why divorcing parents need to be intentional about reminding them it's not their fault because they are self-absorbed in that way as they developmentally should be to a certain age.

 

However, whether they are aware of it and care about it or not they are impacted by their parents happiness. Which is why as you say parents owe it to them to resolve it as least disruptively as possible, if possible.

 

I still say healthy is happy, however:

 

"Happiness is a choice that requires effort at times" Aeschylus

[central]

I understand that you want what's best for your kids. But what if you can achieve 99% of that, and improve your own life 80% by leaving? Versus, say, 100% for them, and unhappiness for you, when a slight difference will lead to a far more optimum result. It's a balance, which you'll have to weigh for yourself, but it's really not an all or nothing proposition.

[OwenW72]

I understand that you want what's best for your kids. But what if you can achieve 99% of that, and improve your own life 80% by leaving? Versus, say, 100% for them, and unhappiness for you, when a slight difference will lead to a far more optimum result. It's a balance, which you'll have to weigh for yourself, but it's really not an all or nothing proposition.

 

Correct. This isn't some artificial "jump in front of a bus" proposition where it's all for them at my expense. I matter, and my wants and needs are connected to what's best for them. I was thinking about this, and the risk/reward of trying to "fix" the marriage is greater than in divorce. Meaning this: us figuring it all out, me happy, my wife happy would be the optimal outcome. It is the big win for all. But fighting to do that and consistently failing is also one of the worst outcomes. When you try and decide what to do you are sort of weighing the probability of either outcome.

 

Divorce is sub-optimal to say the least. But it is also a way to limit the damage, and in the best case create a new outcome that is positive even if it is unlikely to ever be as good as two happy parents. Here, there pretty good odds it's OK in the long-run, but might never be great.

 

I think the math of divorce is now in my forefront because much of the past five years has been the consistently failing path. I am adding up negative impacts and wondering how much longer that is worth doing on the prospect that we could ever get back toward the ideal goal.

[elaine567]

Ok I see a lot of you being happier and life will be glorious for you post divorce but have you considered the possibility of a new man in your wife and kids lives...

How will you react to that?

[OwenW72]

Ok I see a lot of you being happier and life will be glorious for you post divorce but have you considered the possibility of a new man in your wife and kids lives...

How will you react to that?

 

Well, it's a good question. Knowing where I am right now in the relationship, seeing my wife with another man would be a sort of relief. But that's just because it would effectively mean she had unilaterally answered the question of what to do next. But that's not what your asking.

 

I think I would have very mixed emotions about another man being in my kids life. He wouldn't have all the same values or priorities, and I'm sure jealousy would come up at times that he got a place in my kids lives. But if it meant my then ex-wife had love and companionship, I would hope I was a big enough person to be grateful she had it. Part of being in a broken relationship is a sort of guilt that you are failing at that. I want it with someone for me, and I also still want it for her. Afterall, I want BOTH of us to model good relationships for the kids. But sure, it would be mostly out of my control whether he was good for them, and that could never sit easily.

 

I'm sure there would be moments I wanted to push him in front of a bus.... But hopefully not when there is a bus around...

[JuneL]

I just wanted to ask: If you stay together for the kids, how can you be sure there won’t be affairs? Or would it be okay to have a lover on the side under such arrangement?

[Trail Blazer]

But why would they?

Kids are only kids for a short time.

Is it good that they had to endure a ****ty and unhappy childhood for years after a divorce, so at 30 they can say Mom and Dad are now happy...?

Whoopdidoo!

At 30+ I guess most kids hardly care if Mom and Dad are happy or not, they are more concerned with dealing with their own life.

Wow. Talk about putting words in someone's mouth. Why ask me something and then create your own context to answer it anyway? That is just odd.

 

I can only answer on behalf of what I've observed with my own children. Especially for my daughter who has just turned 8, it's been hard on her as her dad isn't living day to day with her. She misses me, a lot.

 

My view is kids absorb a lot of what is around them. If there's negative energy, or worse, contempt towards one another, it's no good for kids. Happy parents are generally always better parents, so while short term it's HARDER on the kids, long term it's BETTER for the kids if, and only IF the relationship is untenable.

[Trail Blazer]

Ok I see a lot of you being happier and life will be glorious for you post divorce but have you considered the possibility of a new man in your wife and kids lives...

How will you react to that?

 

Have you considered whether it's actually relevant when making a decision to leave someone you no longer love and cannot live with because the relationship is toxic? I certainly considered it as a side issue, but it formed no part of the equation when the decision was ultimately made.

[Lanmat]

Ok I see a lot of you being happier and life will be glorious for you post divorce but have you considered the possibility of a new man in your wife and kids lives...

How will you react to that?

 

 

Hi Elaine

 

I think that carefully considering options and repercussions of a separation

is a good thing. Too many people are to impulsive about things like this and make it hell for everyone.

 

How i am right now might be temporary especially the not wanting to work things out.

And i know that the perfect relationship i imagine is unrealistic.

However me being in this relationship for most of my adult life is making me wonder. I dont know if getting rid of the resentment in our relationship is possible.

When i observe some of my friends relationship i can see what id like mine to be.

 

Right now i think that if my GF told me she was seeing some else, id just be like ok thanks for giving me a reason to leave.

I hate that indifference towards her and towards our relationship.

 

On the kids side its an other story however id hate to see someone else in their life.

[Prudence V]

I honestly want people that have experience with divorce and kids to give me some perspective...

So the question is simple, will my kids be OK if we divorce? Is it healthier to stay married for the kids even if it makes me miserable?

 

I have experience in this from three sides:

 

1) growing up, my parents “stayed together for the kids”;

2) as an adult, I divorced and did not “stay together for the kids”;

3) I am married to a man who initially “stayed together for the kids” with his xW, and then finally divorced, and remarried (to me).

 

On (1), as a kid I really wished my parents would divorce. Having friends with divorced parents, I was really envious. My parents were not happy together and that did lasting damage to us kids. We all married young and divorced quickly, because we had such messed up notions of what marriage was about. And when my parents divorced - once we’d left home - I was even more resentful that they’d denied us the chance of a happy childhood.

 

2) My kids are fine. We did struggle financially, when they were growing up, and I think they felt that more than they felt the lack of two parents together. Now, they’re happy and healthy adults - my daughter is happily married with kids of her own, and my son is thriving in his work and his relationships.

 

3) My H’s parents divorced when he was young, and he felt he could not do that to his own kids, so took his xW back after an acrimonious separation for the kids’ sake. This turned out to be a bad move, and he regretted it almost immediately, and later he left the marriage. The second separation was handled much better than the first, and the kids were supportive and welcomed it. Now, as adults, they’re still fully onboard and pleased the way things turned out.

 

But that’s not to say every situation works out that way. You need to do what is best for you, and make sure whichever way you play it, your kids get the support to deal with the situation. If you split, or if you stay together, get family counselling to help them deal with the dynamics.

[elaine567]

On the kids side its an other story however id hate to see someone else in their life.

 

That is why I brought it up, many men and women are so intent on

 

leaving that they forget that their ex-partner may bring some stranger/strangers into their kids lives.

Strangers they have absolutely no control over...

It can be tough.

[OwenW72]

I just wanted to ask: If you stay together for the kids, how can you be sure there won’t be affairs? Or would it be okay to have a lover on the side under such arrangement?

 

I guess I would offer that if my wife and I had the level of trust and communication that's needed for a healthy open marriage, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't need to be talking about divorce. And sure, we could take the roommate route and then look the other way while one or both of us has affairs, but why choose that? Is the need to keep the appearance of marriage so important that it makes sense to break it in every conceivable way and just lie to everyone including yourselves about that choice?

 

I want good sex and a good partner. I get that an affair can be a great outlet, but I really am just at a point that I want to take an intentional path that is actually healthy, and the "roommates with sex on the side" seems like a step further away from that.

[OwenW72]

I have experience in this from three sides:

 

1) growing up, my parents “stayed together for the kids”;

2) as an adult, I divorced and did not “stay together for the kids”;

3) I am married to a man who initially “stayed together for the kids” with his xW, and then finally divorced, and remarried (to me).

 

On (1), as a kid I really wished my parents would divorce. Having friends with divorced parents, I was really envious. My parents were not happy together and that did lasting damage to us kids. We all married young and divorced quickly, because we had such messed up notions of what marriage was about. And when my parents divorced - once we’d left home - I was even more resentful that they’d denied us the chance of a happy childhood.

 

2) My kids are fine. We did struggle financially, when they were growing up, and I think they felt that more than they felt the lack of two parents together. Now, they’re happy and healthy adults - my daughter is happily married with kids of her own, and my son is thriving in his work and his relationships.

 

3) My H’s parents divorced when he was young, and he felt he could not do that to his own kids, so took his xW back after an acrimonious separation for the kids’ sake. This turned out to be a bad move, and he regretted it almost immediately, and later he left the marriage. The second separation was handled much better than the first, and the kids were supportive and welcomed it. Now, as adults, they’re still fully onboard and pleased the way things turned out.

 

But that’s not to say every situation works out that way. You need to do what is best for you, and make sure whichever way you play it, your kids get the support to deal with the situation. If you split, or if you stay together, get family counselling to help them deal with the dynamics.

 

You really have seen divorce and sticking it out from almost every angle. You can pretty much make an argument both for and against divorce depending on which part of that you focus on. It's almost a subject for a different thread, but interesting what our growing up experience does on how we view this. And it is very relevant to my choice because I certainly care about how it will impact my kids relationships.

 

My wife saw her parents stay married through 15 years of alcoholism and toxic conflict. They only divorced when she left for school, but her sister was younger and dealt with the separation. The narrative my wife has taken away is that divorce is destructive, and she has vowed to never have that happen to her marriage. And sure, all of us marry wanting to have it last. But she has a hard time thinking about divorce without feeling she would be failing in the same way as her parents. It has also given her a pretty high baseline for what a normal amount of conflict ought to be.

 

Mine stayed together, and never fought. Arguably they never communicated much either. But it was pretty placid and has stayed that way to today. I got a poor lesson in communication, but thought of marriages as something closer to two individuals sharing a space and dividing up the work of making a home. My view point of her parents has honestly come to be that they did a poor job of seeking genuine help in their marriage, and then stayed together way too long.

 

I just wonder if its a little over simplifying when people suggest that staying married or conversely divorcing to model a better relationship is the right choice because the lesson it gives kids. Honestly, you can do both of those badly, and do a lot of harm in both cases. The outcome probably has a lot more to do with the quality of the particular parenting than anything else.

[Pastypop]

I would say we are more business partners than roommates. We work separate shifts so we don’t have to waste money on childcare, take separate vacations and rarely spend time together without one of those irritating kids wanting something stupid. We rarely have time to clean or take of the yard. It’s truly an embarrassment.

 

It’s been a miserable, lonely kid filled 15 years and it looks like there is no end in sight. I now have a new job with a four hour commute. Going to try and get a place there stating there isn’t any room for all of them and use that as an excuse to get out of this mess for a bit (at least until one of them is driving and actually useful). At this point, all my husband is to me is a paycheck, health insurance provider, the engaged/active parent, tutor and a retirement plan. Over the years, I’ve begged and begged him to get out of boring daddy mode and play little but he is too absorbed with our kids and his dead end job.

[BettyDraper]

I would say we are more business partners than roommates. We work separate shifts so we don’t have to waste money on childcare, take separate vacations and rarely spend time together without one of those irritating kids wanting something stupid. We rarely have time to clean or take of the yard. It’s truly an embarrassment.

 

It’s been a miserable, lonely kid filled 15 years and it looks like there is no end in sight. I now have a new job with a four hour commute. Going to try and get a place there stating there isn’t any room for all of them and use that as an excuse to get out of this mess for a bit (at least until one of them is driving and actually useful). At this point, all my husband is to me is a paycheck, health insurance provider, the engaged/active parent, tutor and a retirement plan. Over the years, I’ve begged and begged him to get out of boring daddy mode and play little but he is too absorbed with our kids and his dead end job.

 

It sounds like you resent the responsibilities of parenthood.

I'm not sure why you're surprised that parenting has impacted your life in some negative ways. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy or joyful all the time.

 

Your husband prioritizes parenting over your marriage but I think that's very common when your children are still young.

[Arris]

I would say we are more business partners than roommates. We work separate shifts so we don’t have to waste money on childcare, take separate vacations and rarely spend time together without one of those irritating kids wanting something stupid. We rarely have time to clean or take of the yard. It’s truly an embarrassment.

 

It’s been a miserable, lonely kid filled 15 years and it looks like there is no end in sight. I now have a new job with a four hour commute. Going to try and get a place there stating there isn’t any room for all of them and use that as an excuse to get out of this mess for a bit (at least until one of them is driving and actually useful). At this point, all my husband is to me is a paycheck, health insurance provider, the engaged/active parent, tutor and a retirement plan. Over the years, I’ve begged and begged him to get out of boring daddy mode and play little but he is too absorbed with our kids and his dead end job.

 

I'm sorry to hear all this. Kids are here and gone in your life. I don't know their ages, but it sounds like you need to work on your perception a little.

You are a part of that marriage and are equally a parent just as your husband is. If you have an issue with their upbringing in any way, communicate it to your husband. If he doesn't listen, then maybe work on his communication skills first. Also, make him understand, the kids will be far off better if both of you are happy and engaged.

 

 

Don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Sometimes it can get overwhelming, work on your confidence and try new approaches. I'd start by becoming a little more presence and go out on 'dates' with your kids. Take them to your favorite restaurant, for walks, whatever. If they are like my kids, maybe they'll seem put out because they can't be lazy, don't be offended. It takes patience to establish new routines and persistence. Don't argue with them, be supportive and kind, but firm. You're the adult, but talk to them with some respect. Always be a parent first, but that doesn't mean you can't develop a friendship.

 

 

Join in on the family life, that's why you had kids. Don't resent your husband for making the most out of the short time you'll have with the kids. Knowing my kids, they'll want their own space anyways at some point, then you and your husband can find that time for each other.

 

 

Things like the yard, buy the kids a shovel, a rake, let them help out in their own way as you get work done. If they make a little extra mess, so what. Growing with your kids is more important than a hole in the yard, which can be filled right back in.

 

 

Not knowing their age, but even tiny ones can find some way to help or feel like they're helping.

 

 

You can make progress to change things.

This shouldn't be your reason for being involved in your family life, but in the end, your husband may pull you in closer. Don't go in with expectations, just open yourself up.

[misspalmy]

Its better to come from a broken home that live in one.

[Lanmat]

Hi Owen

 

 

Just an update on my case

 

 

After a big fight that my oldest 7yo overheard when we did not notice he wasnt sleeping.

 

 

I decided to call it quit.

I just move in with my dad.

 

 

We will do our best to make it ez on the kids

We are telling them tomorrow.

 

 

I have a real hard time being civil to her and i feel like its unfair feels like i chanel my sadness into rage

 

 

 

 

Anyway hopefully your situation improve.