She still won't give up.

[bathtub-row]

There's no doubt in my mind that she might try to manipulate me here and there. It's always who she's been, but I have my eyes wide open and I know what a catch I am. She screws up, I can easily replace her. That I'm sure of.

 

So far, so good.

 

If she has a history of being manipulative, then I would end it. This is a very bad trait and it won’t change.

[Far]

There are many people, probably more than you suspect, who live together without being married. You might consider that approach. If she wants you back rather than simply wanting financial security, she should agree to such a proposal.

 

If she rejects it out of hand then you may fairly deem her interest in you as financial.

 

You can look for signs of the bad old her who cheated without the financial entanglements of marriage. To cut the cord without marriage is much simpler and cheaper than doing so while married

 

Maybe this isn’t for you. Only you know that. But it maybe worth reflecting upon.

 

She wants to be married again, but understand that will likely never happen. I was very upfront about it. If she expects me to marry her again then she needed to find someone else, because she would be possibly wasting her time. She has explained that even if we do not marry, she still wants an 'exclusive' relationship with me. No matter what comes out of it, she wants to put in her all.

[Far]

Hi Far, I wanted to ask you if you have queried your ex wife as to why she is so keen to get back with you? From what you have posted before she is apparently a handsome woman who can easily get a decent, well placed guy if she so chooses. Also you mentioned that she was in a very comfortable income bracket and did not really need the security blanket you could provide. Given these two facts there must be something deeply emotional in her need to get back with you instead of scouring the field for another partner. It would be so much easier and less painful for her to do so and yet she has chosen the more difficult and risky path of trying to get back with you. Maybe you know the answers. Nest wishes.

 

I've asked her many times why she insist. Why me? Well, from what she's said, I'm 'special'. She had never gotten over me apparently. Losing me and the marriage was the worst thing that ever happened to her, excluding the sexual abuse.

 

You see, I treated my ex like a queen. Scratch that, I worshipped the ground she walked on. I I sacrificed so much for the marriage we had. I put up with so much of her crap because I wanted to make sure she knew that I would give her everything. Seriously, I was the definition of a doormat (although she adamantly denies this). She, shamefully, took advantage of that and I let her (never again). She was used to getting what she wanted. The OM was a positive ass hole and treated her like dirt (from what she says). After I divorced her and avoided her (I admit it) she slowly started to realise what an incredibly screwed up person she was. No one she ever knew treated her like I did. No one knew all of her horrible secrets but myself. We were a team, or at least that's what I thought. She missed me terribly (her words). She missed the comfort and unconditional love I gave her. She was absolutely shocked speechless when I left. She did not think that would have happened at all, so she stuck with denial.

 

Why is she so determine? Because she loves me and realised (maybe too late) that I was the only man she could see a future with. If it wasn't so embarrassing to hear her say that, I would have laughed at how sappy the sentiment was. I'm genuinely worried that she has mental issue. Thankfully, thanks to you guys, she is aware that it's a concern and will look into it. There is a huge emphasis of getting back together with me on her part. Codependence maybe? I still don't really trust her too much, so I'm keeping myself at a distance emotionally.

 

The strange thing is that the relationship is different now. Trust me, my ex would never do half of things she was doing now just to get me to give her another chance. Her pride was HUGE when we married (don't ask me why). She was the type of girl who believed she did nothing wrong and it was everyone else's fault. To see her act completely dissimilar (humble and vulnerable) to what I'm used to is jarring, to say the least. It's not that she's a different person or anything. It's more like she has better self control and coping skills. Otherwise, I doubt she would have put up with my constant triggers and vague stance on the relationship much. I admire her taking a huge risk in this.

[doyathinkso]

One day at a time.

 

Watch what she does. If it lines up with her words, well ... okay then.

 

One day at a time.

[Far]

Op,

The most important question in this is whether or not you can forgive your ex. That is not the same as forgetting what she did. That will probably never happen.

 

 

 

Unless you can really forgive her, then all the agreements, boundaries, etc.won't change anything.

 

 

 

If you can't see yourself truly forgiving her, then being in any sort of relationship with her isn't fair to either one of you.

 

I forgave her. Really, aside from the trust issue to take a leap of faith, I see no reason to not forgive her. She thanks me as much as she can for that.

[Far]

I agree with you. Why not let bad rubbish go. I'm not surprised as I see this all the time on this forum especially when it comes to wives. The men always cave (except for 1) and end up taking them back.

 

Yeah, I caved. Looks like I just can't throw away the "bad rubbish" yet.

[Far]

If she has a history of being manipulative, then I would end it. This is a very bad trait and it won’t change.

 

This...is good to now. Sad, but good. Thanks.

[bathtub-row]

I think if you really have zero plans to marry her again, then you’re wasting your time and hers. If she was genuinely sexually abused when she was young, this is a person with some truly deep-seated issues, and she has good reason to have those issues. However, instead of her doing the dance of proving herself, and you standing back watching the show, why don’t you, instead, go with her to counseling so that you can get a real handle on what happened to her, why she acted the way she did, how likely is she to repeat her behaviors, and what are the chances of her healing to the point where she can process her past with emotional maturity?

 

As long as you keep her at arms length, she will continue this dance. It’s only when the two of you are actually back together again as a couple, where she’s comfortable, that you’ll see what has and has not changed.

 

And btw, an abused person will find it nearly impossible to acccept kind and loving actions from someone else. They’ve already been taught that they’re not worthy. So, if you were good to her and worshipped her, she simply couldn’t accept it because she probably believed you’d figure out soon enough that she didn’t deserve your love.

Edited September 24, 2018 by bathtub-row

[hestheone66]

Others have touched on it but I don't think it's spelled out.

 

If your ex wife has childhood abuse trauma it is possible that recovery will be arduous and lengthy if done properly.

 

A friend of mine has been in therapy for over 6 years and is not stable enough to really be an equal partner in a relationship.

 

What strikes me is that she is investing more time and effort into getting you back than her own healing.

 

It seems like the prospect of getting back with you may actually prevent the deep personal healing she needs. And without that she will fail in a relationship.

 

She may need tough love..not to get what she thinks she wants (after all she's not well -acknowledgng the trauma is very different from healing it and becoming whole unfortunately). She needs support but not emotional entanglement that a relationship brings.

 

Can you give her what she needs or only what she wants?

 

I think you both need some years apart to really be your own individuals before considering reconciliation.

Edited September 24, 2018 by hestheone66
Typo

[allenfrank194]

Her pride was HUGE when we married (don't ask me why). She was the type of girl who believed she did nothing wrong and it was everyone else's fault. To see her act completely dissimilar (humble and vulnerable) to what I'm used to is jarring, to say the least. It's not that she's a different person or anything. It's more like she has better self control and coping skills.

 

I'm surprised she came around with being less prideful.

 

I'm in a failing marriage where she is VERY prideful. It's like getting Fonzi to admit she made a mistake or was wrong and her volunteering to say I'm sorry without a "but".

 

In 20 years, I think she's done it once.

 

Good for you, she may have had her come to the lord.

[Far]

Others have touched on it but I don't think it's spelled out.

 

If your ex wife has childhood abuse trauma it is possible that recovery will be arduous and lengthy if done properly.

 

A friend of mine has been in therapy for over 6 years and is not stable enough to really be an equal partner in a relationship.

 

What strikes me is that she is investing more time and effort into getting you back than her own healing.

 

It seems like the prospect of getting back with you may actually prevent the deep personal healing she needs. And without that she will fail in a relationship.

 

She may need tough love..not to get what she thinks she wants (after all she's not well -acknowledgng the trauma is very different from healing it and becoming whole unfortunately). She needs support but not emotional entanglement that a relationship brings.

 

Can you give her what she needs or only what she wants?

 

I think you both need some years apart to really be your own individuals before considering reconciliation.

 

Not necessarily. She is quite invested in her own healing and I've become somewhat invested in it as well. I know what I write here is taken for what it is with little else information. I can assure you there's more going on than her smply throwing herself at my feet.

[Jane Deaux]

Such a sad situation. For both of you. I hope you can truly forgive her and let it go if this is what you want. Because neither of you deserve to be in limbo. I know what she did was wrong and painful. But it seems to me she is truly in love with you and available for whatever you need to move past it. And you can't be 100% happy if you keep holding onto it as well.

 

Might be a good thing to talk to some people on here that have been through this as the cheater and come out MUCH stronger in their love for their spouse and their marriage.

 

It seems to me that you do want her and the love you had. Is she a terrible person apart from this? Was she an awful wife? Do you want to keep causing you both pain because of the pain she caused?

 

Also, not ALL abused people find it hard to accept love. Or feel undeserving of it. However sometimes it does take something life changing like this to shake up a very complacent attitude about life in general and find what you really want and need to be truly happy. You search and search and feel discontent until something happens to you and you grasp your selfishness and realize what you want and need to do to #1 stop being selfish, #2 you finally know what happiness means. Well as much as we can know happiness.

 

I just hope that you figure out if you are working out of spite and anger still and if you believe you can let that go to find happiness. With or without her.

[bigman1]

So, as I read it, you worshipped he ground she walked on.you divorced her and no one else worshipped her or the ground. She looks you up and says she only sees a future with you. Okay, so she wants or expects that life will go back to that.

 

You had your tantrum. You hid for a bit. Now, she wants back in and she's gonna help to you heal so you can be exclusive again.

 

I am reading that she misses being worshipped. She wants that life back. I could be wrong, but your posts give that impression.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Far, how are you getting along? I wanted to thank you for your response to my last post and also suggest that you read through the charade at tam as the situation there is similar to yours and you may benefit from the discussions that have taken place there. It would put your own situation in perspective.

 

I was also wondering, after reading your last post, whether you need to check into intensive IC because of the way you treated your ex wife as a Princess while married to her. I mean worshiping the ground on which she walked is a bit too much for a husband to lower himself to just because he held his wife in such high esteem and valued her so much. I think the seeds of your ex wife's affair were planted right there and then. Just as she humiliated herself by kissing your feet when you jokingly asked her to, you humiliated yourself by the abject way you behaved while married to her. She may have lost respect for you then and looked at you with contempt. It is only when you took decisive and swift action by divorcing her and leaving her bereft of the support that she took for granted that she suddenly realized your worth and gained the respect for you as a man that should always have been there from day one of your marriage.

 

As has been repeated here a number of times, women admire strength and manliness in their man and and when they cannot respect him they will look for it somewhere else. When your wife found that you had taken decisive steps to put her out of your life and you had changed overnight to someone she could admire, her attitude toward you changed and you then became the elusive target that she just had to get back. She probably could not bear the thought that she would lose you to some new and alluring woman while she languished forlorn in a dark corner or made do with some new guy who, in her eyes, did not measure up to you. This is why she has prostrated herself before you and made herself completely vulnerable to you.

 

If you ever go back to worshiping the ground that she or any other woman you choose to spend your life with, you can expect more or less the same result as previously with what happened with your ex wife. This is something you need to work on in IC. Warm wishes.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Just a Guy

[sandylee1]

The more you've posted about, I'm thinking reconciliation isn't a good idea.

 

She's wanting it back to you worshiping the ground she walked on and that ship should have truly sailed.

 

Those manipulative traits don't just disappear. This is really about what SHE wants.

 

DKT had kids with his wife when they divorced...I'd say from reading some of his posts that is what kept them communicating.

 

You are one who could have a divorce where you never looked back and didn't have to ever see her again.

 

If she's a better person...then great. Some other guy can benefit from that.... it's an awful lot of unnecessary baggage when they're are so many good single women out there.

[merrmeade]

She wants to be married again, but understand that will likely never happen. I was very upfront about it. If she expects me to marry her again then she needed to find someone else, because she would be possibly wasting her time. She has explained that even if we do not marry, she still wants an 'exclusive' relationship with me. No matter what comes out of it, she wants to put in her all.

The strange thing is that the relationship is different now. Trust me, my ex would never do half of things she was doing now just to get me to give her another chance. Her pride was HUGE when we married (don't ask me why). She was the type of girl who believed she did nothing wrong and it was everyone else's fault. To see her act completely dissimilar (humble and vulnerable) to what I'm used to is jarring, to say the least. It's not that she's a different person or anything. It's more like she has better self control and coping skills. Otherwise, I doubt she would have put up with my constant triggers and vague stance on the relationship much. I admire her taking a huge risk in this.

 

All well and good if this is the status quo AND CONTINUES. However, I suspect that part, if not all, of the reason it's so good is the fact that you're not married. In other words, would any of this slip away if you married? 10, 20 + years down the line will she take you for granted again?

 

Do you really NEED to get married? I would say you are perfectly justified in never marrying (her anyway). Maybe if you decide to practice monogamy together she might need protection (and you) by some legal documents regarding any community property.

 

Otherwise, I would hate to see you disrespected again once she's got you.