She still won't give up.

[sandylee1]

I agree that you can be with her in a long term relationships without marrying her.

 

Unless you see children in your future...then you may wish to consider marriage.

 

I don't know what else she could do to show remorse. She's done a lot of work on herself.

[bigman1]

I guess I am wondering how much self healing did you do on your own? You mentioned that you did IC. You also mentioned that you slept with half the town or something like that. That sounds like you were rug sweeping all by yourself. Not in the traditional sense, but in the sense that you were just escaping the pain and not dealing with it by sleeping around. Finding your mojo as you put it. Nothing wrong with finding it, but you gotta find yourself too.

 

Having said that, if she is helping you deal with the issues that she caused, that is admirable. Of course, it also makes me feel like this is a "project". Go back, look somber, take your lumps make amends, clean up your mess and then what? Is this just a task that needs completing? I mean, did she unequivocally commit to saying it is to win you back as you alluded or as you also posited that she wanted to clean up her mess and perhaps you'd both move on. To use an old metaphor, in Ham and Eggs the chicken is involved but the pig is committed. I see where you stand, but where is she?

 

Finally, I am glad that you laughed at that Beta stuff. It is so superficial and artificial. It will help you pick up a "chick" in a bar, but it won't work for

finding a woman for marriage. I digress.

[TennisGal]

It's important to recognize that recovery from childhood sexual abuse takes many years of work and often involves setbacks along the way. It's great that she is working on this. But it is far too soon to think this process is anywhere near done.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Folks, I have'nt chimed in yet as I have been a bit confused with what the OP truly wants. To my mind, true remorse in a person cannot get better than what the OP's ex wife is displaying. If she was not genuine in her desire to get back with the OP she never would have humiliated herself to the degree that she did by kissing his feet in a public place. The OP has himself said that she does not need him for financial security since she earns an income almost equal to him. She is also an attractive woman who can easily find a partner of her choice if she so wants. He has said that her OM wanted a relationship with her but she rejected his offer. She has also maintained NC with him which she imposed unilaterally and which has been surreptitiously monitored by her friends. Overall, she has humbled her self before the OP, swallowing all his barbs and boorish behaviour quite gracefully.

 

I have to say that it is the OP's prerogative if he wants to marry her again or not. I am sure it would take a leap of faith for him to do so. However,, by the same token, he should not toy with her and just use her physically and emotionally to satisfy his own needs without taking into account her needs too. If he acts selfishly for his own benefit then he is no better than who she was when she betrayed him. She got her consequences then but will he then also ge5 his too? Fact is that there is the case of DKT3 and Loving DKT3 as a template for a situation like this. If the OP is confirmed in his desire not to remarry his ex wife he should not lead her on in the hopes that she will get him back. Tell her gently but firmly that it is over between them and that is final. Then the both of them can go ahead and find their new partners in life on a clean slate. Maybe something to think about. Warm wishes.

[Far]

Hi Folks, I have'nt chimed in yet as I have been a bit confused with what the OP truly wants. To my mind, true remorse in a person cannot get better than what the OP's ex wife is displaying. If she was not genuine in her desire to get back with the OP she never would have humiliated herself to the degree that she did by kissing his feet in a public place. The OP has himself said that she does not need him for financial security since she earns an income almost equal to him. She is also an attractive woman who can easily find a partner of her choice if she so wants. He has said that her OM wanted a relationship with her but she rejected his offer. She has also maintained NC with him which she imposed unilaterally and which has been surreptitiously monitored by her friends. Overall, she has humbled her self before the OP, swallowing all his barbs and boorish behaviour quite gracefully.

 

I have to say that it is the OP's prerogative if he wants to marry her again or not. I am sure it would take a leap of faith for him to do so. However,, by the same token, he should not toy with her and just use her physically and emotionally to satisfy his own needs without taking into account her needs too. If he acts selfishly for his own benefit then he is no better than who she was when she betrayed him. She got her consequences then but will he then also ge5 his too? Fact is that there is the case of DKT3 and Loving DKT3 as a template for a situation like this. If the OP is confirmed in his desire not to remarry his ex wife he should not lead her on in the hopes that she will get him back. Tell her gently but firmly that it is over between them and that is final. Then the both of them can go ahead and find their new partners in life on a clean slate. Maybe something to think about. Warm wishes.

 

Just a guy, me and my ex talk about everything discussed here. She knows all that's going on In my head as I find little reason to keep this a secret. She wants a relationship, maybe remarriage in the future. I'm not sure on that not because of finances or security, but because I took my vows seriously before and she did not. Plus, as mentioned here a number of times, it's far to early to be thinking about that stuff. She is still dealing with her own crap and so am I.

 

I have been seeing an IC but stopped. Yeah, I can agree that I've rugswept some personal issues that I should have tackled and got out of my system. The road isn't easy and I have come out short it seems. I didn't know I actually still had residual troubles until my ex pointed it out months ago. She has been recommending me to return to my IC and continue to work on myself for myself. I'm the one who who has been hesitant. Not anymore. I'm seeing my IC again. This time it's deep and personal.

 

There is nothing hidden between us. She's transparent and so am I.

 

Does she see this as a project to finish? No. Does she see this as a lifelong commitment she wants? Yes, but still too early to take her word for it. Trust...that's been a biggy.

 

I'm gonna go read DKT3 and Loving's threads now. Thanks for that.

[Far]

What I want is right is very hazy, but I do want to try and see if we have a chance for a great future together. I might change my mind about marriage and stuff down the line. It's entirely possible.

[DKT3]

What I want is right is very hazy, but I do want to try and see if we have a chance for a great future together. I might change my mind about marriage and stuff down the line. It's entirely possible.

 

You dont have to know what you want. Your ex is a big girl, and as long as you are honest with her then the outcome is whatever the outcome is.

 

Your story is almost a mirror image of ours. I would not even entertain the idea of remarrying her. Circumstances changed. I was offered an amazing opportunity in another state. I wanted her to come and she agreed. In time, she thought of all she would give up in the move, coupled with me being wishy washy in terms of my commitment to her, she refused to move without a commitment. We both held our ground and she called it quits on the thing. Life got, let's just say messy during this period.

 

Now, here is where I've lost people in the past. After some time apart, it dawned on me that her biggest issue in our pre affair first marriage was her questioning my commitment to her, this feeling she had that she wasn't a priority. Yes, she had the affair but she was still allowed her own personal deal breakers in the new relationship. I weighed out what it meant to her as opposed too how much I didn't want to do it.

 

It boiled down to one simple thing, I loved her more than I hated the idea of marrying her again

 

With what I learned, I would suggest that you not take the will never happen approach. Instead go with one of the classic approaches let's see what happens, who knows what the future holds, we will just have to let it play out. Because really that is far more honest than saying I will never.

[WilyWill]

The problem is it's a terrible way to have a relationship. Why even bother if you are always ready to bolt?

 

It's really no different than a Hollywood marriage. Both spouses have signed 100-page prenuptial agreements or agreed to open marriages, etc. The only difference is that OP never has to pay for a second expensive ceremony. His ex views marriage vows as meaningless anyway.

[lovely81]

The kissing your feet part really bothered me, too.

Maybe it's been too long since I've been in love, but I don't think I would ever do that to get someone back! It's bizarre and sad.

[bigman1]

Do you. I think that those who seem the most fulfilled in a relationship post infidelity are the ones who broke up, divorced, or took some hard acts that sent the message that they could, would, or were going to cut the cheater out of their lives. NOT ALL, but Inhave seem a lot of folks in R say that they wished they took a tough stance or kicked them out or something that showed the cheater that they were just as disposable as the BS was.

 

Whatever works for you.

[notbroken]

You were married to her. She cheated. You divorced. There are 4 billion other women in the world. Why would you go back with her? Deep down why? Make sure it is for the right reason and not because you want to 'right a wrong', etc.

 

Honestly, it seems you would have a better chance at long term happiness with someone you don't have that baggage with.

[merrmeade]

...my ex talk about everything discussed here. She knows all that's going on In my head as I find little reason to keep this a secret. She wants a relationship, maybe remarriage in the future. I'm not sure on that not because of finances or security, but because I took my vows seriously before and she did not. Plus, as mentioned here a number of times, it's far to early to be thinking about that stuff. She is still dealing with her own crap and so am I.

...

There is nothing hidden between us. She's transparent and so am I.

 

Does she see this as a project to finish? No. Does she see this as a lifelong commitment she wants? Yes, but still too early to take her word for it. Trust...that's been a biggy.

 

I'm gonna go read DKT3 and Loving's threads now. Thanks for that.

What I want is right is very hazy, but I do want to try and see if we have a chance for a great future together. I might change my mind about marriage and stuff down the line. It's entirely possible.

From these two posts, it's clear to me that OP is as in control of his choices as anyone could be. And I think DKT3 understands this as well as anyone could:

You dont have to know what you want. Your ex is a big girl, and as long as you are honest with her then the outcome is whatever the outcome is.

...

I would suggest that you not take the will never happen approach. Instead go with one of the classic approaches let's see what happens, who knows what the future holds, we will just have to let it play out. Because really that is far more honest than saying I will never.

Former Mrs. Far may not be entirely trustworthy and is probably manipulative, but both will be in IC soon, he promises, and there's sincere effort at honest talk. This just got interesting.

[Rubix Cubed]

Thanks for you words. We did discuss a prenup and she is all for it if we do get serious later on.

 

I'd definitely do the pre-nup and even go so far as to demand reimbursement for what the divorce and settlement cost you. She screwed you over and likely got a benefit fiscally from it, even if she didn't, you took a hit for at least lawyer's fees and expenses and it would show a serious enough commitment that if she was playing a game she would refuse. Get it back.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Rubix Cubed

[Far]

I'd definitely do the pre-nup and even go so far as to demand reimbursement for what the divorce and settlement cost you. She screwed you over and likely got a benefit fiscally from it, even if she didn't, you took a hit for at least lawyer's fees and expenses and it would show a serious enough commitment that if she was playing a game she would refuse. Get it back.

 

Hmm... Makes sense in a way, I'll think on it. Although, I'll see what her opinion on the reimbursement would be. She's been pretty desperate to do anything I want to have a future with me...not that I'd take advantage of that.

[Far]

From these two posts, it's clear to me that OP is as in control of his choices as anyone could be. And I think DKT3 understands this as well as anyone could: Former Mrs. Far may not be entirely trustworthy and is probably manipulative, but both will be in IC soon, he promises, and there's sincere effort at honest talk. This just got interesting.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that she might try to manipulate me here and there. It's always who she's been, but I have my eyes wide open and I know what a catch I am. She screws up, I can easily replace her. That I'm sure of.

 

So far, so good.

[Far]

You were married to her. She cheated. You divorced. There are 4 billion other women in the world. Why would you go back with her? Deep down why? Make sure it is for the right reason and not because you want to 'right a wrong', etc.

 

Honestly, it seems you would have a better chance at long term happiness with someone you don't have that baggage with.

 

All logical and what you say might very well be the reason. I'm not quite sure myself. I guess I believe in second chances if someone is truly sorry.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Far, I wrote a post yesterday that refused to get posted. Something wonky with the website software. In any case the gist of it was that while a prenup might be in order asking your ex to refund you your expenses in the divorce may be going too far and to my mind churlish. She may oblige you but if your reason is to see whether she is truly remorseful then I think you got your answer when she literally kissed your feet when you lightly asked her to do so while fully expecting her to refuse.

 

Quite frankly I have seen very few instances of true remorse on this and other forums. Your ex wife's remorse seems genuine and from the heart. My only concern would be that she may be psychologically damaged because she resorted to fulfilling an almost absurd demand from you, that is kissing your feet which of course you did not expect her to do. You may ask her to get a psychiatric assessment the results of which you should have access to. If everything is fine with her it will be your call as to what happens next. Wish you the best going forward.

[Far]

Hi Far, I wrote a post yesterday that refused to get posted. Something wonky with the website software. In any case the gist of it was that while a prenup might be in order asking your ex to refund you your expenses in the divorce may be going too far and to my mind churlish. She may oblige you but if your reason is to see whether she is truly remorseful then I think you got your answer when she literally kissed your feet when you lightly asked her to do so while fully expecting her to refuse.

 

Quite frankly I have seen very few instances of true remorse on this and other forums. Your ex wife's remorse seems genuine and from the heart. My only concern would be that she may be psychologically damaged because she resorted to fulfilling an almost absurd demand from you, that is kissing your feet which of course you did not expect her to do. You may ask her to get a psychiatric assessment the results of which you should have access to. If everything is fine with her it will be your call as to what happens next. Wish you the best going forward.

 

Thanks Just a Guy. I actually did not think about that. This I'm definitely running by her. She doesn't appear to be in need of psychiatric help, but I'm no expert. And yeah, I'm only entertaining the notion of a refund. It wouldn't make much sense to hold that over her head. I see the D as a done deal and not something to revisit.

[Bufo]

There are many people, probably more than you suspect, who live together without being married. You might consider that approach. If she wants you back rather than simply wanting financial security, she should agree to such a proposal.

 

If she rejects it out of hand then you may fairly deem her interest in you as financial.

 

You can look for signs of the bad old her who cheated without the financial entanglements of marriage. To cut the cord without marriage is much simpler and cheaper than doing so while married

 

Maybe this isn’t for you. Only you know that. But it maybe worth reflecting upon.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Far, I wanted to ask you if you have queried your ex wife as to why she is so keen to get back with you? From what you have posted before she is apparently a handsome woman who can easily get a decent, well placed guy if she so chooses. Also you mentioned that she was in a very comfortable income bracket and did not really need the security blanket you could provide. Given these two facts there must be something deeply emotional in her need to get back with you instead of scouring the field for another partner. It would be so much easier and less painful for her to do so and yet she has chosen the more difficult and risky path of trying to get back with you. Maybe you know the answers. Nest wishes.

[doyathinkso]

why she is so keen to get back with you?

 

 

Because maybe she really loves him.

 

Maybe she is coming to terms with her major screwup. Maybe she is finally understanding how her extremely troubled FOO beginnings had warped her to become unreliable and is determined to do something about it.

 

Maybe, just maybe, she and her husband are not beyond redemption.

 

I hope so, for both their sakes.

[Oberfeldwebel]

This is not a right or wrong question, this is strictly on you. There is never a guarantee in a relationship, we just have to ask ourselves if we think this person is worth taking a risk on or not. Her past behavior tells you that she is a BAD risk. However, you seem to think this leopard has changed her spots. It may very well be true and you seem as if you never really got over the loss of this relationship. I do have a couple of suggestions:

 

 

1. Don't cohabitate for now. This will allow you a place to retreat to in case you two are having a bad day and need a breather.

 

2. Finances as separate … period.

 

3. Marriage - NO GO.

 

4. You have to be able to let all the old stuff go, if this relationship is going to stand a chance. So there will be no throwing rocks from the old relationship, if you can't separate the two, then just move on with life.

 

5. Use protection from pregnancies

 

6. Communication and honesty is a must. You can't hold in issues, you two have to be brutally honest with one another, not mean, but honest.

 

This could work and I hope for you that it does, but realize that you have a long row to hoe.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Ober you raised some good points especially about the OP's ex wife being a high risk partner for the future. However, the fact remains that OP is starting on a clean slate with her since he was prompt in divorcing her on discovering her infidelity and going completely dark on her since the divorce. It is the ex ww who has been pursuing him and inspite of his completely cold and dismissive attitude toward her has persisted and laid herself completely vulnerable to him as exemplified by the fact that she did not hesitate to kiss his feet when he lightly asked her if she would do so in a public place thus humiliating herself just to prove to him she wanted to be with him. I would think she is less a leopard trying to change her spots rather than a once broken woman who made a very bad choice in her life. Maybe she needs a second chance. By all means the OP should put all possible safeguards in place such as a prenup and built in deal breakers as he thinks fit. I think she would be ready to accept all his conditions.

 

As it is the OP is in no hurry to tie the knot with her again. Their relationship is more friends with benefits with the proviso that it is mutually exclusive. Nonetheless, as you have said abundant caution is advised. Best wishes.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Just a Guy

[pepperbird]

Op,

The most important question in this is whether or not you can forgive your ex. That is not the same as forgetting what she did. That will probably never happen.

 

 

 

Unless you can really forgive her, then all the agreements, boundaries, etc.won't change anything.

 

 

 

If you can't see yourself truly forgiving her, then being in any sort of relationship with her isn't fair to either one of you.

[stillafool]

You were married to her. She cheated. You divorced. There are 4 billion other women in the world. Why would you go back with her? Deep down why? Make sure it is for the right reason and not because you want to 'right a wrong', etc.

 

Honestly, it seems you would have a better chance at long term happiness with someone you don't have that baggage with.

 

I agree with you. Why not let bad rubbish go. I'm not surprised as I see this all the time on this forum especially when it comes to wives. The men always cave (except for 1) and end up taking them back.