Infuriated..

[newyorker11356]

The kind of women who love to be surrounded by men are not the kind of women I like. They're attention whores, among other things...

 

So women can't have guy friends now?

 

Let's not go overboard with it now.

[carhill]

Trust, like that regarding prior relationships (platonic) with members of one's sexual preference (here hetero apparently) is built slowly over time and with consistent actions which develop it.

 

I've seen it both ways with women, those who have male friends and those who crave male attention. I've also seen some bi-sexual women (known more of them than similar men) who have friends and/or crave attention from both genders.

 

OP, if it doesn't flow, let it go. You made a decision here after some consideration so go with it. She knows how to find you if she wants a face-to-face. If you're not worth that then cool, that's life, interesting couple months and next.

 

I know a particular MW who recently spent a night without her H in a 5th wheel with a single male friend and no sex occurred. Some card games and watching a movie did occur. Male in question slept on floor in living room and MW in bed with her dog. I know this since I was there. Of course I could be lying.

[Els]

I think it can work just fine for some people if they actually treat them as platonic friends. I wouldn’t rule out people based on the gender of their friends alone. But I lose patience fast if they lack boundaries and spend excessive amounts of solo time with them or go for overnight trips without telling me. Was born some time before yesterday!

 

 

Right. There's a huuuugeeee difference between "I like hanging out with Rob, Paul, and Jenna", and "I just spent the night in a secluded cabin alone with Rob"....

[Lorenza]

So women can't have guy friends now?

 

Let's not go overboard with it now.

 

It's fine for a woman to have guy friends. But unfortunately, in many cases the term "friend" is very loose cause it's just used to disguise orbiters and ego-boosters. So it comes down to a woman enjoying the attention and being out of reach while giving just enough for them to think there still might be a possibility to smash. Like spending the night after a concert. Or spending two nights in a secluded cabin. Maybe OP's ex gf really didn't have sex with her male friends those two times. But the fact that she has such loose boundaries while in a relationship is what's keeping those orbiters motivated.

You don't normally spend a weekend alone with a regular male friend while totally ignoring your bf. You maybe go grab some drinks or do some hobby related activity together (like going to a concert... And then going home! Your own home.)

I know to the OP it's the sudden change of communication that was the indicator, but I think it shouldn't be the only one.

[thefooloftheyear]

IME. Most normal, heterosexual men do not really have female "friends" unless there is some(even a tiny bit) of hope that one day he will have her bent over a desk somewhere....

 

I know this comes as a total shock to a lot of women, that surely think these guys are hanging around them because they are so much fun to be around or have such an interesting personality...it can't possibly be those DD tits now...

 

Most intelligent and self assured women realize this and keep those guys at a healthy distance, while some others relish that attention and cat and mouse game as it gives them an ego boost...

 

And it can lead to a lot of frustration as the OP experienced...

 

TFY

[Els]

IME. Most normal, heterosexual men do not really have female "friends" unless there is some(even a tiny bit) of hope that one day he will have her bent over a desk somewhere....

 

I know this comes as a total shock to a lot of women, that surely think these guys are hanging around them because they are so much fun to be around or have such an interesting personality...it can't possibly be those DD tits now...

 

Most intelligent and self assured women realize this and keep those guys at a healthy distance, while some others relish that attention and cat and mouse game as it gives them an ego boost...

 

And it can lead to a lot of frustration as the OP experienced...

 

TFY

 

 

I think it's pretty normal to hang out in co-ed groups, especially for the current generation. Those groups include male friends, and female friends as well. Tbh I would look askance at a man who ONLY had male friends and no female friends whatsoever.

 

 

Obviously, those can coexist with boundaries, especially pertaining to sleeping over and 1-on-1 time.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think it's pretty normal to hang out in co-ed groups, especially for the current generation. Those groups include male friends, and female friends as well. Tbh I would look askance at a man who ONLY had male friends and no female friends whatsoever.

 

 

Obviously, those can coexist with boundaries, especially pertaining to sleeping over and 1-on-1 time.

 

 

You are talking "groups" ...I am talking one woman with "x" number of guys..Huge difference...

 

Most women wouldn't "look askance" at men that don't have female friends...In fact, id say its the complete opposite...I mean, I won't mention any names here, but there are quite a few guys on this site that whine all the time about not being able to find women to date them, yet they claim to have several female friends...What about that type of thing turns women off from a romantic relationship with these guys?

 

TFY

[Els]

You are talking "groups" ...I am talking one woman with "x" number of guys..Huge difference...

 

 

Maybe we have different definitions of "friends". To me, someone I enjoy talking to and spending time hanging out with is a "friend", even if most of that time is done in a group (of friends, usually of mixed genders). Constant 1 on 1 contact is blurring the lines IMO, and definitely not needed for "friendship".

 

 

 

 

Most women wouldn't "look askance" at men that don't have female friends...In fact, id say its the complete opposite...I mean, I won't mention any names here, but there are quite a few guys on this site that whine all the time about not being able to find women to date them, yet they claim to have several female friends...What about that type of thing turns women off from a romantic relationship with these guys?

 

TFY

 

 

Assuming my definition of "friends", a man with no female friends is a man who is completely unable or uninterested to participate in mixed gender social settings. IME, such men tend to either be extremely socially awkward, or the "bro" type who views women as merely sexual objects instead of people. Both are bad news for LTRs IMO.

 

 

But if you mean a man who doesn't hang out 1 on 1 with women? Sure, I'm good with that.

[Noproblem]

So, this thread turned into a man-cave mentality! Typical on LS.

 

Oh please, most of the girls and women who cheated on you didn't even have many male friends! They still did it though, why? Just because!

 

 

Stop labeling women whores just because they have male friends.

 

Ridiculous!

 

Now back to Op, about maturity, you are the one who broke up with her over a text message based on advice you got from the internet!

 

I don't know how mature you consider that to be!

 

If you know a person, and you met him several times, you break up with him face to face, that is the decent thing to do!

Edited July 10, 2018 by Noproblem

[lurker74]

So, this thread turned into a man-cave mentality! Typical on LS.

 

Oh please, most of the girls and women who cheated on you didn't even have many male friends! They still did it though, why? Just because!

 

 

Stop labeling women whores just because they have male friends.

 

Ridiculous!

 

Not seeing much whore calling here. And women have plenty of guy friends. But having a guy friend that you help clean a cabin with for an entire weekend and don't text your actual boyfriend? That is the ridiculous part. How dirty do you think that cabin was (before they got there, that is)?

 

Now back to Op, about maturity, you are the one who broke up with her over a text message based on advice you got from the internet!

 

I don't know how mature you consider that to be!

 

If you know a person, and you met him several times, you break up with him face to face, that is the decent thing to do!

 

A decade ago I would agree with you. Three years ago, I would understand. In 2018, someone acting like that in a two month relationship? I wouldn't have a problem with breaking up by phone or text.

[Juha]

The kind of women who love to be surrounded by men are not the kind of women I like. They're attention whores, among other things...

 

Women who have lots of male friends and not many female friends tells you a lot about them.

 

They crave male attention mostly because they have self esteem issues.

They are not trust worthy. Usually they have lots of guys around orbiting

them who all want to carry on with them.

 

Also, if a woman has lots of guy "friends" and not many women friends

it's because the women do not trust her nor like her as she has messed around with some boyfriends/husbands and women want nothing to do with her.

 

Sorry but she is shady as hell and will now try to apologize to you to pull you back in because she is either mad or upset someone rejected her and her esteem has taken a hit

Edited July 10, 2018 by Juha
add

[Logo]

If you know a person, and you met him several times, you break up with him face to face, that is the decent thing to do!

 

 

What about break up via a PostIt note?

 

Is that worse?

[Logo]

Now in all seriousness, from what I see around me, it appears that the term “friends” between men and women has been so contaminated these days to actually mean friends with benefits or ****buddies.

 

I’m going to start a new thread in the general relationships forum about this very topic.

[act00]

I'm wondering if the male friends would have become an issue at some point. The OP didn't really know her that well. I don't know if he ever had an opportunity to meet them and see how they interact. But Oats said that he had no issues with her having male friends at this point. It was this evasiveness around Matt and the sudden change of character that caused the issue (IMO). Of course none of us know if his reaction would have been that strong if she suddenly took a 180 on communication if it were a female friend. I suspect there would have been a little more leeway and he wouldn't have ended things so fast. The reality is, at the end of 2-3 months, it's a point where things start to get serious and people start to get real with each other (honeymoon phase is ending), and relationships end. Who knows if the GF is not one to text a lot in reality, but this is her behavior in the beginning (can not maintain such a high level in reality), she saw the relationship phasing out, this new guy popped into the picture she took interest in him...as "just friend," maybe (?), but certainly some attraction and possibility something more? Maybe he's been a male orbiter for years? Who knows?

 

Spending the night one-on-one is a big pill to swallow, and I can't say I'd be pleased with it. I don't know that I'd throw in the towel immediately, but after totally dropping off the planet, especially coupled with the total evasiveness of who "the friend" was, the situation would not be good. I would be suspecting there's more going on than "friends."

 

Whatever it is, the OP states he had no issue with the fact she had male friends, but there was something about Matt that caused an issue, despite the fact he states it was only the communication issue...it was both. I don't know that any real discussion was had about Matt or their relationship, but the GF was highly defensive about it, and who knows how easily one can broach the topic...trying not to come across as jealous or untrusting, but trying to figure out what's going on...particularly around the full change in communication style. I don't know. The whole situation was sketchy.

[Highndry]

I'm wondering if the male friends would have become an issue at some point. The OP didn't really know her that well. I don't know if he ever had an opportunity to meet them and see how they interact. But Oats said that he had no issues with her having male friends at this point. It was this evasiveness around Matt and the sudden change of character that caused the issue (IMO). Of course none of us know if his reaction would have been that strong if she suddenly took a 180 on communication if it were a female friend. I suspect there would have been a little more leeway and he wouldn't have ended things so fast. The reality is, at the end of 2-3 months, it's a point where things start to get serious and people start to get real with each other (honeymoon phase is ending), and relationships end. Who knows if the GF is not one to text a lot in reality, but this is her behavior in the beginning (can not maintain such a high level in reality), she saw the relationship phasing out, this new guy popped into the picture she took interest in him...as "just friend," maybe (?), but certainly some attraction and possibility something more? Maybe he's been a male orbiter for years? Who knows?

 

Spending the night one-on-one is a big pill to swallow, and I can't say I'd be pleased with it. I don't know that I'd throw in the towel immediately, but after totally dropping off the planet, especially coupled with the total evasiveness of who "the friend" was, the situation would not be good. I would be suspecting there's more going on than "friends."

 

Whatever it is, the OP states he had no issue with the fact she had male friends, but there was something about Matt that caused an issue, despite the fact he states it was only the communication issue...it was both. I don't know that any real discussion was had about Matt or their relationship, but the GF was highly defensive about it, and who knows how easily one can broach the topic...trying not to come across as jealous or untrusting, but trying to figure out what's going on...particularly around the full change in communication style. I don't know. The whole situation was sketchy.

 

 

It's not that difficult to understand. She goes out of town to a concert, stays the night with a guy and drops communication, then the next week she goes with the same guy to his cabin for a few nights and drops communication. Anyone but the greatest fool in the world can understand what's going on.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

You'll never know if she ****ed this dude or not.

 

What you do know is that you can choose to trust or not based on your experiences with her.

 

In my experience, a woman who puts herself in a cabin with another guy with no regard to how you felt about it is not in tune with your feelings, nor is she demonstrating your feelings about her behavior is important. As you claim you brought it to her attention, she marginalized your feelings. Is this indicative of someone who cares about what you think?

 

Maybe you're just into her more than she's into you at this point.

 

Let her go be with "Matt".

[preraph]

There's all kinds. I mean, I used to go out of town and stay overnight going to concerts with a guy who one of my old bfs referred to as "the model." We were platonic. He was as gossipy as an old lady and didn't sleep around much. I did this while I was dating a guy I was in love with but had no exclusive agreement with. He had met the guy previously, not through me. I had told him we're just friends and never so much as held hands before. But I mean, we weren't exclusive anyway, and at least I let him know what was up. Unlike him, who I ended up sitting behind at a local concert with his arm around a date after he'd just been with me acting all lovey dovey.

 

There's all kinds of friends. I can't see FWB going to any trouble to travel just to have sex. FWB is all about convenience.

 

 

Bottom line, it's was very early to be committed, though it's nice to have an agreement and not have to wonder, but as every woman knows, just because a guy tells you you're exclusive doesn't mean you are. Soo, too, with women. Bottom line is she's far too independent for him. He operates on a very connected level and she doesn't. So breaking up was probably inevitable.

Edited July 11, 2018 by preraph

[Gaeta]

I think once you're out of college you should be done with spending weekends away in cottage with friends of opposite sex. There is a proper way for an adult to conduct himself/herself while in a relationship.

[thefooloftheyear]

I think once you're out of college you should be done with spending weekends away in cottage with friends of opposite sex. There is a proper way for an adult to conduct himself/herself while in a relationship.

 

yeah....pretty much this...

 

He says she's 32....I mean, by that time most of the "party girl/have a good time" types are driving SUV's with kids in tow, or at least in some type of arrangement where they aren't going out with random other guys for different types of fun/activity..

 

I know of a woman that is in her late 30's that's married, yet has what she calls "FB boyfriends" that she goes out to bars, karaoke nights, concerts, etc...while her husband stays home...Kinda weird, but whatever....

 

But...some never grow out of it, so maybe that's her....It's no problem, but then most guys her age won't really be on the same page with that...The OP did the right thing...

 

TFY

[bachdude]

I've said it before on this forum, but one of the problems with this whole 'we are just friends so you have to put up with me spending whole weekends alone with him or her while I drop off the face of the earth' is it assumes an almost angelic, pure as the morning due view of human nature.

 

A few drinks, some laughing, BF or GF out of sight/out of mind, no where to go, no where to be, a secluded location, a friend who is easy on the eyes...Come on! Even with the best of intentions that's inviting trouble!

 

Unless you are the result of an immaculate conception or something, I don't buy you couldn't be tempted in a situation like that. A healthy distrust of yourself is a sign of wisdom, I think.

 

As my Chinese friend always used to say. 'It's the confident swimmer who always drowns'. How true!!

[Echo74]

I did not read any of the comments after your post, but here's an opinion.

 

If a guy wanted exclusivity with me but yet had girlfriends he hung out with, I'd steer clear of him. I do agree that opposite sexes can be friends in a group setting but going out with the opposite sex while in an exclusive relationship with another person is a matter of respect for said relationship rather than the lack of trust.

 

That's MY opinion.

 

Now the fact that she made all the excuses and tried to skim around the why's. Disrespectful to you, IMHO. Staying overnight with the guy?! Yikes, run! She obviously wants it all.

 

 

Edited after reading entire thread: Great decision on your part. There are plenty of woman who will respect your exclusive relationship with her.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Echo74

[Echo74]

Not all people leave their friends just because they have gf/bf.....

Some people try to keep their friendship even after "Finding a gf/bf"

 

Matt is her concert fun guy

she goes with him to concerts and to have fun

 

I don't know what they did in the cabin, but sex could not be the only fun activity that they engaged in!

 

We shouldn't decide people cheating just because!

 

Where is the proof of her being a cheeter?

 

 

No one ever mentioned ending friendships of the opposite sex. That said, it's simply a matter of respect while in an exclusive relationship to stop going out with said friend in a one on one setting.

 

 

but they are still new in this relationship.

Things will always happen, you can't have your perfect match right away!

There has to be a compromise on both parts.

and we don't know her motives. maybe she was having some issues at work or something that causes her to change that has nothing to do with Matt.

 

anyway, you can imagine how ridiculous this story is if we omit MATT

 

One should never compromise on having respect for the bf/gf in an exclusive relationship. But this is what dating entails, seeing who fits into your puzzle piece. Having similar values is so important in a good relationship.

[Noproblem]

No one ever mentioned ending friendships of the opposite sex. That said, it's simply a matter of respect while in an exclusive relationship to stop going out with said friend in a one on one setting.

 

 

 

 

One should never compromise on having respect for the bf/gf in an exclusive relationship. But this is what dating entails, seeing who fits into your puzzle piece. Having similar values is so important in a good relationship.

 

If it's about respect! It's a different story then!

 

I don't like her way of communicating with him either, but this could be for million other reasons than "Matt"

 

 

But again, she only knew him for 2 months, kinda hard to make him her number one this early in a relationship?

 

Why does she need to tell him what she is doing and where is she spending her time this early in a relationship? Is he her mom and dad and is she 12?

 

Some people have a hard time giving up their independence. They don't see it as disrespect, they see it as it's the way they lived all their life, why do they have to act differently now!

 

 

It's weird, 2 months it's nothing really!

 

But if you notice Op, mentioned something about how he was annoyed by her constant texting, seems to me

 

Even if we omit

 

Matt,

 

and her callous disrespectful behavior

 

he still was bothered by her and found the right excuse to let her go.

 

because at the end of the day, if she was going to cheat, she wouldn't even mention where she spent the night and with who. How would he even know about Matt if she hasn't said there is a "Matt"

 

she could have made an imaginary trip to the moon, and he wouldn't have known anything!

 

Honestly, if I am guessing right

 

Seems like Matt is her excuse!

 

She liked Op more than she would like. He talked about being exclusive.....

 

she freaked out..

 

Brought Matt to the picture as a way to protect herself from falling in love with another guy that would break her heart again!

 

then Op got angry, left her!

 

She thought that was what she wanted but she regretted messing this relationship up, sent her friend to get op to talk back to her ( which is pathetic in my opinion) but that didn't work either......

 

 

 

Anyway.

 

It's over now!

 

But this story didn't end badly for all involved

 

 

Matt now has a chance to express his love toward Op's ex

and all his devious plans have paid off!

 

Matt won .....

 

Maybe Matt was always a factor who ended all her previous relationships, but she doesn't know, some girls are very clueless!

Edited July 12, 2018 by Noproblem

[john9999]

I wasn't looking at the tangibles (i.e. who she was spending time with and where) as much as I was the drastic change in behavior and communication.

 

 

A few weeks ago:

 

 

"Hey, I'm going to have dinner with my friend Zach, I'm looking forward to catching up with him!" And then she proceeds to text me while she's out with her friend. I didn't ask her to do so and had no issue with her having dinner with a friend. And, she was also the one in the relationship that communicated continually, not me. "Good morning" and "Good night" texts each day, four or five texts before lunch, four or five after, etc.. etc.. Again, this was common place and nothing that I demanded of her. If anything, it became a little bit exhausting.

 

 

Last weekend:

 

 

"I'm going to go clean a friend's cabin."

"I'm at the cabin, I'll text as I can."

 

 

Then.. Cricket.. Cricket... Cricket.. For two days.

 

 

 

I will admit, as much as I don't take issue with a SO having male friends, spending two nights alone with another guy at a secluded cabin is certainly pushing that limit. I can't honestly say that I have dated a woman that would be okay with me doing the same.

 

 

Your last statement is precisely correct. How would she feel if you were going away for the weekend with another woman? When my ex did unacceptable things that’s exactly what I would ask her. How would you feel if I was doing that

[Eternal Sunshine]

As someone who has a lot of male friends/fwbs, once I start seeing someone I really like - I think it’s disrespectful to the new guy to even spend ANY 1-1 time with male friends, let alone nights and weekends.

 

It’s not even about if there is anything physical or not, it’s about lack of consideration and respect.