Feel Like I'm Back to Square One

[Zippy2000]

So the future goes like this. You STILL cant get Sally out of your head. You finish with Pam and try to get back with Sally.

 

 

You guys connect for a while but Sally goes back to her dismissive was and flakes again. She does this a few more times so you get angry and go into no contact.

 

 

You reflect what you lost with Pam so you go back to her she she doesnt want you back.

 

 

Please dont hurt Pam. Pam deserves better.

[Highndry]

So the future goes like this. You STILL cant get Sally out of your head. You finish with Pam and try to get back with Sally.

 

 

You guys connect for a while but Sally goes back to her dismissive was and flakes again. She does this a few more times so you get angry and go into no contact.

 

 

You reflect what you lost with Pam so you go back to her she she doesnt want you back.

 

 

Please dont hurt Pam. Pam deserves better.

 

 

That should be titled "How to Fail at Dating 101."

[RideTheLightening]

Thanks. I'm old enough and have been through enough relationships that I know it takes a long time for me to develop and emotional closeness with someone necessary to feel the connection I had with Sally - which is the main reason why I was fairly easily distracted from Pam. We've only known each other two months. I've known Sally for years. It will just take time, but we will get there.

 

I find the older I get the longer it takes to develop that connection. Sometimes it feels like I lost that ability all together.

 

How long does it take you to build that connection now? I generally fake it up front and then wait for it to build. Longest I've ever had it take was 1.5 years, but that's partially because I was also dating other women at the same time.

 

Do you feel like there is a base level attraction difference between Pam and Sally?

[Versacehottie]

I forgot some of the other things I wanted to say to you, OP. I do remember that have one story from one of my guy friends recently. I ran into him last year after not seeing him for a couple of years & asked how it was going. He has always told me his dating stories so the conversation turned to that after a while. He told me that since I had last seen him he met and was dating two girls and then obviously at one point he had to choose which one to continue with. Without saying it in so many words, one was a Sally and one was a Pam. He chose the Sally. I guess Pam handled it like you would expect from most normal (stable) Pam's. She was gracious and didn't freak out although she was disappointed, of course. So he was with the Sally for about six months when he got into an accident and ended up seriously hurt & in the hospital. Idk why exactly (i.e. i don't think it was because he was "settling" or wanted suzi homemaker type--I think he just finally at that stage appreciated finally her for her) & I don't think it was a bad thing but he told me he had an epiphany and had this urge to reach out to the Pam. He broke it off with the Sally, reached out to the Pam, who took him back and when I ran into him, they'd be living together for several months. He told me he was going to ask her to marry him and was super happy. I think it took him to seriously be considering his life to realize that what seemed exciting might be fleeting but what the Pam offered and who she was a life-long thing & that he could count on her & build a life with her.

 

I hope you never have to have something dramatic happen to you to realize this & still maybe it's not the right choice for you to choose your Pam. I don't think you should drag things out with Pam for much longer though if you have an inclination. You won't be doing her any favors by hanging on too long--IMO, you should know pretty soon otherwise you are just wasting her time. And if you care about her, as you seem to, that should be one thing you are looking out for. I think it's a good sign that you just got shook up for around 10 days and then have kinda bounced back. I AM a little worried about the way you describe your relationship with Pam--I think you don't sound that excited about her. Good luck.

[KBarletta]

It’s a big worry that you would gladly go back to her without her doing a single thing , explaining herself or apologising or talking. All you care about is how perfect she is physically and she is a 10 etc etc with no concerns about her personality and the way she treated you.

 

I thought that - just that night - as I have said before that was just a fleeting thought at the time that has since faded. I still think of Sally but if she were to show up at my door now, my response would be very different. In fact, she's reached out to friends in recent days asking them about me and Pam and hasn't contacted me at all, which I find slightly amusing.

 

But the fact is that right now my focus is on Pam. I have occasionally thoughts of Sally, which I think is only natural, but it's nothing that lasts. Just a passing thought. My focus is on Pam and having a good time with her, which is exactly what is happening.

[KBarletta]

I find the older I get the longer it takes to develop that connection. Sometimes it feels like I lost that ability all together.

 

How long does it take you to build that connection now? I generally fake it up front and then wait for it to build. Longest I've ever had it take was 1.5 years, but that's partially because I was also dating other women at the same time.

 

Do you feel like there is a base level attraction difference between Pam and Sally?

 

It depends, to be honest. I have met women where I clicked and felt a connection with them within a day or two. With others, sometimes it takes weeks. I am starting to feel it with Pam, and we've known each other like 2.5 months, seeing each other about twice a week. So we've had about 15 dates.

 

Sally and Pam are both very attractive. There is a 10 year age difference between them. Sally is eight years younger than me. Pam is two years older. Sally dresses much more provocatively (short skirts, fishnets, high heels), does her hair in a very sexy way, wears more makeup, carries herself in a very sexy way ... Pam is much more of a T-shirt and jeans type. Hardly any makeup, plain clothes/hair, unassuming, etc.

 

So, to the outside world, Sally appears WAY more attractive and is truly unbelievably sexy, but at the end of the day they're both gorgeous.

[KBarletta]

So the future goes like this. You STILL cant get Sally out of your head. You finish with Pam and try to get back with Sally.

 

 

You guys connect for a while but Sally goes back to her dismissive was and flakes again. She does this a few more times so you get angry and go into no contact.

 

 

You reflect what you lost with Pam so you go back to her she she doesnt want you back.

 

 

Please dont hurt Pam. Pam deserves better.

 

 

The only way I would attempt to reconcile with Sally would be if we were both single. I don't want that, so unless something awful happens with Pam (which seems unlikely at this point) I would say this won't happen.

[KBarletta]

I forgot some of the other things I wanted to say to you, OP. I do remember that have one story from one of my guy friends recently. I ran into him last year after not seeing him for a couple of years & asked how it was going. He has always told me his dating stories so the conversation turned to that after a while. He told me that since I had last seen him he met and was dating two girls and then obviously at one point he had to choose which one to continue with. Without saying it in so many words, one was a Sally and one was a Pam. He chose the Sally. I guess Pam handled it like you would expect from most normal (stable) Pam's. She was gracious and didn't freak out although she was disappointed, of course. So he was with the Sally for about six months when he got into an accident and ended up seriously hurt & in the hospital. Idk why exactly (i.e. i don't think it was because he was "settling" or wanted suzi homemaker type--I think he just finally at that stage appreciated finally her for her) & I don't think it was a bad thing but he told me he had an epiphany and had this urge to reach out to the Pam. He broke it off with the Sally, reached out to the Pam, who took him back and when I ran into him, they'd be living together for several months. He told me he was going to ask her to marry him and was super happy. I think it took him to seriously be considering his life to realize that what seemed exciting might be fleeting but what the Pam offered and who she was a life-long thing & that he could count on her & build a life with her.

 

I hope you never have to have something dramatic happen to you to realize this & still maybe it's not the right choice for you to choose your Pam. I don't think you should drag things out with Pam for much longer though if you have an inclination. You won't be doing her any favors by hanging on too long--IMO, you should know pretty soon otherwise you are just wasting her time. And if you care about her, as you seem to, that should be one thing you are looking out for. I think it's a good sign that you just got shook up for around 10 days and then have kinda bounced back. I AM a little worried about the way you describe your relationship with Pam--I think you don't sound that excited about her. Good luck.

 

I hope it doesn't take anything this dramatic. But thanks for the story.

 

The fact is, if I were to have a crisis in my life right now, I know which one would be there for me and which one would not. And that speaks volumes.

[JuneL]

I think the function of this incident was to make you realize you’re not attracted to Pam at a fundamental level, otherwise you’d be asking what was I thinking (to have such strong feelings for Sally 6 months ago). Versace’s story doesn’t apply to you, as Sally has absolutely no interest in you, and you have no choice.

Edited June 20, 2018 by JuneL

[Versacehottie]

I thought that - just that night - as I have said before that was just a fleeting thought at the time that has since faded. I still think of Sally but if she were to show up at my door now, my response would be very different. In fact, she's reached out to friends in recent days asking them about me and Pam and hasn't contacted me at all, which I find slightly amusing.

But the fact is that right now my focus is on Pam. I have occasionally thoughts of Sally, which I think is only natural, but it's nothing that lasts. Just a passing thought. My focus is on Pam and having a good time with her, which is exactly what is happening.

 

Told you!!! A milder version of her reaching out to you directly. But the same virtually. She knew they would relay that inquiry back to you. Think it DID bug her that you didn't reach out after the concert (if she was really so concerned about your well-being, she saw you standing & breathing a week ago & also could have asked herself). You actually have more power than you think; she didn't contact you directly herself because the fact that you are with Pam scared her more than you would imagine. She thinks she has lost her pull on you (little does she know you are struggling a bit but still a victory really).

[Versacehottie]

I think the function of this incident was to make you realize you’re not attracted to Pam at a fundamental level, otherwise you’d be asking what was I thinking (to have such strong feelings for Sally 6 months ago). Versace’s story doesn’t apply to you, as Sally has absolutely no interest in you, and you have no choice.

 

Well tbh, i think that Sally is still interested. Maybe not enough and the shenanigans probably wouldn't end. She is a hot & cold person at least as how she treats OP. My story is more to illustrate that steady & loyal & in love with you (a Pam) prevails over excitement/lust when a person's eyes are open and they see things as they are. I think there is a lot the same. My friend, luckily, still had a chance with his Pam (pretty surprising after 6 months) but he broke it off with his Sally without knowing where the Pam stood with him.

 

Hopefully the OP will hit that level of recognizing it on his own--not because he has no chance with Sally. I think he knows on some level he has a chance with Sally. It feels like he is starting to recognize the Pam is better for him in a deeper, real love way. I think it's super important to be excited and very attracted to your partner though & was surprised to hear that doesn't always come from his end right away, as that is not how i know most guys to be (but possible of course). To be fair, he may also be coming to the conclusion, if he is smart, that a lot of the lust or attraction comes solely from the fact that Sally is hot & cold with him and they had unfinished business in some ways--not real love exactly. That is very common.

[KBarletta]

Well tbh, i think that Sally is still interested. Maybe not enough and the shenanigans probably wouldn't end. She is a hot & cold person at least as how she treats OP. My story is more to illustrate that steady & loyal & in love with you (a Pam) prevails over excitement/lust when a person's eyes are open and they see things as they are. I think there is a lot the same. My friend, luckily, still had a chance with his Pam (pretty surprising after 6 months) but he broke it off with his Sally without knowing where the Pam stood with him.

 

Hopefully the OP will hit that level of recognizing it on his own--not because he has no chance with Sally. I think he knows on some level he has a chance with Sally. It feels like he is starting to recognize the Pam is better for him in a deeper, real love way. I think it's super important to be excited and very attracted to your partner though & was surprised to hear that doesn't always come from his end right away, as that is not how i know most guys to be (but possible of course). To be fair, he may also be coming to the conclusion, if he is smart, that a lot of the lust or attraction comes solely from the fact that Sally is hot & cold with him and they had unfinished business in some ways--not real love exactly. That is very common.

 

Honestly, it depends on what you mean by the word "chance." LOL

 

I have a chance with Sally in the sense that she and I could have sex. And we could spend time together as friends and we could probably even be in what she might consider a "relationship" - but it would never be on solid ground. She would always be in danger of slipping away, flaking, blowing me off, etc. It would be like standing on quicksand constantly, waiting to sink, waiting for her to fade away again.

 

If by "chance" you mean something solid, that will last and with someone who will be there for me and support me and communicate effectively and be my best friend without selfish strings attached - the only "chance" there is with Pam. I know that.

 

The only thing keeping me from putting Sally in the past completely is that I still have an emotional connection to her. It tugs at my heart strings to think of my life without her in it. But not enough for me to reach out to her.

[KBarletta]

Well tbh, i think that Sally is still interested. Maybe not enough and the shenanigans probably wouldn't end. She is a hot & cold person at least as how she treats OP. My story is more to illustrate that steady & loyal & in love with you (a Pam) prevails over excitement/lust when a person's eyes are open and they see things as they are. I think there is a lot the same. My friend, luckily, still had a chance with his Pam (pretty surprising after 6 months) but he broke it off with his Sally without knowing where the Pam stood with him.

 

Hopefully the OP will hit that level of recognizing it on his own--not because he has no chance with Sally. I think he knows on some level he has a chance with Sally. It feels like he is starting to recognize the Pam is better for him in a deeper, real love way. I think it's super important to be excited and very attracted to your partner though & was surprised to hear that doesn't always come from his end right away, as that is not how i know most guys to be (but possible of course). To be fair, he may also be coming to the conclusion, if he is smart, that a lot of the lust or attraction comes solely from the fact that Sally is hot & cold with him and they had unfinished business in some ways--not real love exactly. That is very common.

 

 

The other thing worth mentioning is that I wasn't 100 percent attracted to Sally from day one either. It took a lot of hanging out with her before I even realized how beautiful I thought she was. When Sally and I really started spending time together, we were both coming off long term relationships and I was still invested in someone else ... but eventually came to the conclusion that Sally was the one for me and I ultimately decided she was the most gorgeous woman I'd ever seen. So ... with me, it always takes time, and the emotional bond has to come first, before I can feel sexual things, even when I can clearly see that someone is a "perfect 10" that doesn't mean I'm ready to jump into bed with them. I need to know them.

[Versacehottie]

Honestly, it depends on what you mean by the word "chance." LOL

 

I have a chance with Sally in the sense that she and I could have sex. And we could spend time together as friends and we could probably even be in what she might consider a "relationship" - but it would never be on solid ground. She would always be in danger of slipping away, flaking, blowing me off, etc. It would be like standing on quicksand constantly, waiting to sink, waiting for her to fade away again.

 

If by "chance" you mean something solid, that will last and with someone who will be there for me and support me and communicate effectively and be my best friend without selfish strings attached - the only "chance" there is with Pam. I know that.

 

The only thing keeping me from putting Sally in the past completely is that I still have an emotional connection to her. It tugs at my heart strings to think of my life without her in it. But not enough for me to reach out to her.

 

Yeah I 100% agree with that version of "chance" and it's exactly how i meant it as well. Seems like you have begun to see the light.

[KBarletta]

Yeah I 100% agree with that version of "chance" and it's exactly how i meant it as well. Seems like you have begun to see the light.

 

Yeah, I think so.

 

The way I see it, I could have a tenuous, insecure, inconsistent relationship with Sally that might include great sex and occasional moments of awesome connection and also periods where I feel ignored and neglected.

 

OR ... I could try to build something much more solid with Pam and also work on building the level of attraction to where we can have all that, plus great things on the physical side as well. It's coming ... I can feel it. She's gorgeous, but I know it takes me a while to get to the point where my emotional and physical attraction are at the same level, like it was with Sally.

 

I feel like it's just going to take time. (And if I hadn't had this incident with Sally, honestly, I think I might be there already. This set me back and threw me for a loop, but I don't think it's insurmountable.)

[Versacehottie]

Sometimes it's just hard to let go of what you thought would be....

 

Little bump in the road but doesn't mean you aren't headed in a great directon for yourself

[guest569]

What is Pam? A 5? 7?

[JuneL]

What is Pam? A 5? 7?

 

Excellent question!

[olivetree]

Sally and Pam are both very attractive. There is a 10 year age difference between them. Sally is eight years younger than me. Pam is two years older. Sally dresses much more provocatively (short skirts, fishnets, high heels), does her hair in a very sexy way, wears more makeup, carries herself in a very sexy way ... Pam is much more of a T-shirt and jeans type. Hardly any makeup, plain clothes/hair, unassuming, etc.

 

So, to the outside world, Sally appears WAY more attractive and is truly unbelievably sexy, but at the end of the day they're both gorgeous.

 

Personally, I think Pam sounds more attractive. A natural beauty.

[KBarletta]

Personally, I think Pam sounds more attractive. A natural beauty.

 

They're both natural beauties, honestly. One just plays hers up more (especially recently) while the other does not.

 

To answer the question above, if Sally's a hard 10, Pam is objectively an 8 to an 8.5, depending on what your preferences are of course.

[KBarletta]

What is Pam? A 5? 7?

 

She's probably an 8 or 8.5 out of 10. She doesn't get as much attention from men because she's unassuming while Sally's look is totally in your face. Sally's the type who, when she walks into a room, everyone looks at her and says, "Who is THAT?" Pam not so much. But it's more because that's just not her personality.

[olivetree]

She's probably an 8 or 8.5 out of 10. She doesn't get as much attention from men because she's unassuming while Sally's look is totally in your face. Sally's the type who, when she walks into a room, everyone looks at her and says, "Who is THAT?" Pam not so much. But it's more because that's just not her personality.

 

Regardless of whether or not Pam is the girl for you, I think when you truly appreciate someone's inner beauty as well, she will become an 11/10 for you.

And then Dismissive Sally will be more like a 5.

[greymatter]

I’m saying this with the best intentions but most men I know, and I live in a so called hip urban area, would not be wondering “who is that” about Sally but more wondering why she is so obviously looking for attention with her behavior and dress. Many here would think “what the..?!” Fishnets and high heels and short skirts are certainly not the standard of beauty here, nor would that kind of outfit earn someone a 10, no matter how attractive the person wearing those clothes is. My point is that it’s all subjective and you still subjectively rate Sally as more of your ideal, rather than Pam, who you obviously like and maybe she is growing on you but you still don’t sound as into her or excited about her as I’m sure she would like you to be, if she knew your inner thoughts.

Edited June 21, 2018 by greymatter
Typo

[KBarletta]

I’m saying this with the best intentions but most men I know, and I live in a so called hip urban area, would not be wondering “who is that” about Sally but more wondering why she is so obviously looking for attention with her behavior and dress. Many here would think “what the..?!” Fishnets and high heels and short skirts are certainly not the standard of beauty here, nor would that kind of outfit earn someone a 10, no matter how attractive the person wearing those clothes is. My point is that it’s all subjective and you still subjectively rate Sally as more of your ideal, rather than Pam, who you obviously like and maybe she is growing on you but you still don’t sound as into her or excited about her as I’m sure she would like you to be, if she knew your inner thoughts.

 

Well, as I've said many times I have to develop an emotional connection with someone to find them attractive. The "numbers" I'm assigning here are really just to answer people's questions, not how I myself rate them in my own head when I take all of the factors that matter to me into consideration, including their kindness to me and their emotional availability, etc.

 

The fact is, when all of those factors are added in, Pam is a much better fit for me.

 

These numbers are all superficial - not what really matters. Sally is a 10 in that she can stop people in their tracks, take their breath away. But that's fleeting.

 

Pam is a 10 when you consider all the other factors people can't see on the surface.

[KBarletta]

Regardless of whether or not Pam is the girl for you, I think when you truly appreciate someone's inner beauty as well, she will become an 11/10 for you.

And then Dismissive Sally will be more like a 5.

 

Exactly. My makeup is such that it just takes me a good while to detach from someone when I've loved them for so long. And until I do that, they remain my ideal regardless of other factors. I thought I'd done that with Sally but ... obviously not yet. Once I do that and am fully open to being All In with Pam, I think Sally will be a distant memory. I just need to give it time.