Wife having emotional affair

[tokentowely]

Overall, she has not shown a history of lying except in arguements sometimes for as long as i’ve known her, which makes the blatent lies she told trying to hide her thing with this guy even more surprising. I dont think she supplicates my authority, i’ve always given her private space. I dont want anyone under my thumb. My apple cart is in the ditch, all trust is broken and will not get that back, at least never in the same way. My body has been completely numb since finding out, so i am not in a good place mentally. I am good at making mistakes. I am seaching for the truth, and i am unlikely to get the whole story ever. I am not looking for any excuse to save my marriage, just enough info to make an informed decision. Divorce is absolutely on the table, it is a serious decision and i do not take it lightly.

[S2B]

Now is the time to play hard ball. Show NO signs of weakness!

 

Have divorce papers drawn up and leave them out for her to see you mean business!

 

Transfer everything you can into your name only! Do this now or she will!

 

Leave her with next to nothing as far as choices - you want her scared into what's to become of her cushy little life.

 

Start changing everything! Do not do one single thing to make her confortable!

[Adotta]

Last poster has it right. Don't try to be a gentleman. Make this hard for her. That's not to say be juvenile or pety. Let her understand what it means to lose you. Don't show weakness to her. Don't beg and cry. You can't let her think your world revolves around her. Women like the feeling of a man completely devoting their every cell and piece of soul to them, but it rarely garners respect. Don't be a white knight.

 

I've seen a lot of people try to make everything comfortable and palatable for their newly discovered wayward. It doesn't work. If she says something stupid. Let her know. If she does something stupid let her know. If she lies hold her feet to the fire. If it continues threaten divorce and make the threat real. If you threaten divorce and she still goes and breaks NC, blames you, does anything boundary breaking or inappropriate or whatever it is you don't want her doing as your wife you have to plan on following through with threats. If she thinks your bluffing she will start calling your bluffs. She will try to skirt the edges of being a good wife. If she forces you to use divorce as a option only a world shattering effort on her part should be able to pull you back to her.

[fredflint]

Last poster has it right. Don't try to be a gentleman. Make this hard for her. That's not to say be juvenile or pety. Let her understand what it means to lose you. Don't show weakness to her. Don't beg and cry. You can't let her think your world revolves around her. Women like the feeling of a man completely devoting their every cell and piece of soul to them, but it rarely garners respect. Don't be a white knight.

 

I've seen a lot of people try to make everything comfortable and palatable for their newly discovered wayward. It doesn't work. If she says something stupid. Let her know. If she does something stupid let her know. If she lies hold her feet to the fire. If it continues threaten divorce and make the threat real. If you threaten divorce and she still goes and breaks NC, blames you, does anything boundary breaking or inappropriate or whatever it is you don't want her doing as your wife you have to plan on following through with threats. If she thinks your bluffing she will start calling your bluffs. She will try to skirt the edges of being a good wife. If she forces you to use divorce as a option only a world shattering effort on her part should be able to pull you back to her.

 

I generally agree with this. You shouldn't take any nonsense. But I would add don't do it from a place of wanting her or wanting to force her to be with you, or wanting revenge or to make her uncomfortable or wanting to make her have consequences. Just do it from a place of wanting to protect yourself. It's like being in a rowing boat. When the marriage is good you row the boat, ie. maintain it with love and doing things for each other. When the marriage is broken, you're not in the boat any more. She tipped you out of the boat. So if you keep rowing while flailing in the water you look like a fool. The smart, respect-worthy thing to do instead is to swim to shore, alone for a while.

[carhill]

I searched the thread for the word 'affection' and returned no results.

 

OP, you mentioned sex dried up not too long after getting married. How's the non-sexual affection been over the years? Hugging, kissing, terms of endearment, touching, PDA's, presenting as a 'couple' by physical means? How's that gone?

 

I'd suggest, before making any unilateral moves you can't take back, consult a different attorney and run them by him or her. More information is good information.

[Marc878]

The thing you need to comprehend is this is not unique. It is to you but these things happen all the time and for the most part follow the same script over and over.

 

Your wife is not a special snowflake that is irreplaceable.

[tokentowely]

Marc, totally right. It is so sad to browse the depths of how low people go in their relationships with their other on this forum. No respect, which is def what i have, and for a while imo. Affection-wise, we usually hugged and kissed daily, unless their was a fight. I was the needy one ttrying to lure my spouse into talking in the evenings (instead of consumed by their phone) and wanting sex more than once every 2 weeks. And not because she was getting it elsewhere, just always an excuse.......appreciate these last few comments, they are most helpful, and you are right.

 

I got the results back from her phone. In it, 18 messages (to go along with 33 on facebook messenger and a 2 minute phone convo). In it, she is at a bar near the dance studio watching the Stanley Cup lameting to him that he wasnt there with her.....i love hockey, one of my fav sports, but regardless of sport she has little interest watching it with me.....she tells him the “only thing missing is a Luke”, wanting him to join her. He tells her he is going to San Diego next week and will be gone for a while. No indication anything physical happened, sounded like he was too busy. I imagine he probably had a 20-something year old blowing him and had no need for some old married bag.... Or maybe not. Had i not looked at her phone, this would still be going on, and would have ended up at another level, if it hadnt already. And I i still would not have known...

 

Throught what ive seen, my wife was the driver in the flirtation, taking it sexually when he hadnt, but he was more than willing to play along, maybe get another notch on the bedpost, what did he have to lose? Trying to meet him outside of dance sucks to another level. Today I am 7 days removed from Dday.....

[usa1ah]

That just sucks.

[Adotta]

She was the persuer? That's not very good. I feel like their are different types of cheaters. Ones that are chased and then there is the chaser.

 

The chased don't initially set out to cheat. They have someone pursuing them and little by little that person cracks their defenses and they let themselves cross marital boundaries one step at a time. They give themselves excuses and rationalize what they are doing isn't so bad. It's like the frog in the boiling pot. They adjust to it and it's hard for them to notice how far they are falling into betrayal and depravity. Inside they know but on the edges of that knowledge they have a plethora of excuses.

 

Then there are the chaser. These people pretty much just say **** it and decided to cheat. No one was buttering them up. Noone was leading them to cross boundaries. They did it all on their own. They didn't get pulled in or sweet talked. They are the puller. They are the sweet talker.

 

Now of course that is simplistic and doesn't perfectly match reality. Cheaters don't have to be all one or the other, but their is a spectrum I believe. Were does your wife fall on that spectrum. In my view of the details so far she had to have made a concrete decision to cheat and seduce this guy. How much that matters is up to you.

 

Have you read any of her conversations with other people? Like her friends, sisters, mother? What is her tone when speaking about you. Did she talk about her affair with any one else? Did she talk about you to her ap?

[Marc878]

Time and thought will bring clarity.

 

You can't make someone love you.

 

Chasing, being needy just pushes them farther away.

 

The thing is the only one keeping you where you are is you.

[tokentowely]

She didnt really talk about me to him, mentions my name once in passing. Not everything they exchanged was blatent flirting, but is was bonding and trying to get to know one another. On the days where she exchanged 50-75 messages with him, she would send me one or two, telling me she was on her way hone from the dance studio, other than that we would not talk during the day. This is because when i call or text her during the day, it is met with irritation or defensiveness. As far as I know, she hadnt mention him to anyone else, and they kept it on the DL while at the studio so as not to sully their reputations there. Man, if i wasnt lost before i certainly am now.

[bathtub-row]

This level of deception is simply inexcusable. I don’t know how a marriage could recover from something like this. Sorry, not trying to be negative and I’d love to see your marriage work out but...dang! Big, big pill to swallow.

[Overtaxed]

She was the persuer? That's not very good. I feel like their are different types of cheaters. Ones that are chased and then there is the chaser.

 

The chased don't initially set out to cheat. They have someone pursuing them and little by little that person cracks their defenses and they let themselves cross marital boundaries one step at a time. They give themselves excuses and rationalize what they are doing isn't so bad. It's like the frog in the boiling pot. They adjust to it and it's hard for them to notice how far they are falling into betrayal and depravity. Inside they know but on the edges of that knowledge they have a plethora of excuses.

 

Then there are the chaser. These people pretty much just say **** it and decided to cheat. No one was buttering them up. Noone was leading them to cross boundaries. They did it all on their own. They didn't get pulled in or sweet talked. They are the puller. They are the sweet talker.

 

Now of course that is simplistic and doesn't perfectly match reality. Cheaters don't have to be all one or the other, but their is a spectrum I believe. Were does your wife fall on that spectrum. In my view of the details so far she had to have made a concrete decision to cheat and seduce this guy. How much that matters is up to you.

 

Have you read any of her conversations with other people? Like her friends, sisters, mother? What is her tone when speaking about you. Did she talk about her affair with any one else? Did she talk about you to her ap?

 

I agree with you. And almost every A has one chaser. And it's the man the majority of the time, both for social reasons (men almost always chase women in normal relationships too) as well as because, in aggregate, A's are much less dangerous for a man (about 1/2 the chance of getting a D as a woman after an A) and more fulfilling (because many men are chasing sex, and sex is something you get from an A). A female chaser, yes, does happen, but yes, I agree with the poster, it's a bad sign for R. A female chaser is someone who really wanted to cheat, she wasn't pulled into it, she decided she was going to do it and then did it. And it's terrifying for a man because a woman who operates like that (similar to how most men do) can have 20 APs before the week is out. A male chaser still has to find someone to say yes, and, that's NOT easy, not dating, let along someone willing to be an AP. A female chaser really doesn't have that restraint, almost every guy here knows that our wives could post an ad for NSA sex at 8AM and have a line of guys down the block by noon. The thing that gives us comfort is that most women won't do that, just like most women won't pursue men when they are married.

[Adotta]

Other marriages have survived worse, but it's not about worse or better. It's about what he is willing to accept as HIS bottom line.

 

Op. The stuff you bring up is good. She texted you maybe 2 times a day with irritation and him dozens and dozens with flirtation and interest.

 

Have you asked her Why? Why specifically treat you like that? You are going to need to talk to her about this stuff and let her explain. The effort she puts into explaining her affair will help HER unravel this all as well help you understand were her head was at during. It will also let you gauge were she is at R wise. Is her head in the game or is she putting in a token effort?

 

You are going to have to have a thousand little conversations like that throughout the next couple years to process this all WITH her. Don't bury your feelings and thoughts. Be open to listening to her, but don't let her pass off bull**** as fact. Use your head. Gauge her interactions and openness with you and move forward and upward as best you can.

 

If she is being open and honest about their relationship try not to scare her away from speaking. You can show your anger. You can express your feelings, but you have to let her know that despite the pain the talks put you through, open honest dialogue about the affair and her thoughts are absolutely NEEDED for you to move forward. She has to be a more open and honest person. Conflict avoidance is another trait a lot of cheaters posses. Most crap marriages usually have one or 2 conflict avioders too.

 

She needs to learn how to communicate. Tell her you don't want to go back to the same marriage. That marriage sucked. You want better. You need a better partner and if she is unwilling to be that partner she has to go.

 

Just make sure over all you keep control. Don't let her dictate your course of action. You are the leader in this R and if you decide you can end it at any time.

[Marc878]

Like most she won’t see it as you do because she’s not on the receiving end of this.

 

Take some time to yourself and figure out what you want.

[S2B]

So you have evidence she was pursuing him and wanted to meet up with him. She can't be trusted.

 

What do you plan to do about that?

 

 

Did you make her pay for the evidence? I would think if she intended to repair the damage she caused - she'd pay willingly.

[tokentowely]

I made her pay for retrieving the deleted texts from her phone. I dont know what i am going to do? One day it seems like we have a decent marriage on a good foundation and things were improving between us, the next feels like it was all a lie and i am left with nothing. Her dishonesty is just as bad or worse than whatever she was doing with this guy. We are seeing a therapist this afternoon, will see how that goes. Not expecting too much other than more heartache from revisiting what happened. Hoping for some insight. Thank you all for “walking” with me on this. There is no one left in my life that i can speak to or confide in....my wife used to be my only one, now there is none...

[fredflint]

I made her pay for retrieving the deleted texts from her phone. I dont know what i am going to do? One day it seems like we have a decent marriage on a good foundation and things were improving between us, the next feels like it was all a lie and i am left with nothing. Her dishonesty is just as bad or worse than whatever she was doing with this guy. We are seeing a therapist this afternoon, will see how that goes. Not expecting too much other than more heartache from revisiting what happened. Hoping for some insight. Thank you all for “walking” with me on this. There is no one left in my life that i can speak to or confide in....my wife used to be my only one, now there is none...

 

I'm sorry for your pain. It must feel like your whole world has fallen apart, and also feel like it's impacting your sense of identity. I've been through this kind of thing. I know it really sucks. The good news is that over time, it does get easier, and better as your mind adjusts to the new reality.

[Adotta]

What do you mean she lies? Are you talking about her lying DURING her affair or after? If she is lying now she is so far from R ready she is on a different zip code.

 

Has she been forthcoming about the details of this all? Is she open to talking about it? Does she show remorse that is more then temporary? Does she blame shift? Is she withholding info and trickle truthing You? Ie. Only telling you what you already know? What's her attitude?

 

One good sign during R is a wayward giving info that wasn't know already. It shows they want truth in the relationship. It doesn't mean a sure thing R but it's a good sign.

 

Also don't rush this. You need some time to process this as well as time to monitor her. She can ACT like a great remorseful ww truly prepped for R, but time and carefull attention to her actions and words to see if they match.

 

Time also gives you space to clear your head. Most people simply can't bring themselves to make a decision so soon.

 

Have you thought about filing for divorce to get the picture across this is serious? It helps in multiple ways. Most divorces need 6 months to a year of separation and mediation before divorce can happen. That gives you and her enough time to figure this out. You can always cancel later. Plus if you do decide to divorce you are already through most of your separation period. Separation can usually be done even while living together. The biggest thing is it makes this all REAL to your wife. If she tells you proceeding like this means you are already giving up or not all in on R look her in the eyes and say "Yeah I'm not all in on R. It's your job to change that. Good luck."

 

I'll simply leave you with this for now. Please don't be afraid of divorce. Don't be afraid of being alone for a while. Don't let that fear cloud your judgment. This decision will be a crossroad of your life. Don't let hope cloud your mind either. You may want your wife back and loving you with all your heart, but unless she can give you some assurance with her actions that this will NEVER happen again it's not worth living with the constant fear this could happen again at any time.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Adotta

[carhill]

One inhibition to quick/premature divorce filing can be found in my jurisdiction and that's financial. Retaining a divorce lawyer is 3-5K cash minimum, then court filing fees and service fees, about 500 bucks locally, then that starts a 30 day clock on the spouse where they also have to retain separate counsel and file an answer with the court and serve it, so figure about the same. Easy to burn up 7 to 10 grand for 'divorce her/him' and that's cash money. My lawyer quoted about 50 grand my cost for a contested divorce and we didn't have kids, just stuff and a couple businesses.

 

I get the 'divorce her' stuff, I do, but think it through before pulling that trigger; once it's pulled there is no way to put the bullet back in the gun. The marriage will always be marred not only by infidelity but also by a lawsuit. Personally I'd only file for divorce if I intended to divorce and as quickly and cleanly as legally possible. Here that's six months (cooling off period).

 

An intermediate step is, if available, go to mediation and hash out the details in advance of a filing. That will indicate, generally, how difficult the lawsuit will be.

 

If divorce in the jurisdiction is quick and inexpensive, sure, separate finances, agree on custody and be done with it. Nothing stopping the couple from getting back together later if they change their minds. I personally abhor enriching lawyers along the way unless absolutely necessary. YMMV.

[Adotta]

Carhill has a point. My suggestion only works if you can handle it financially and that all depends on your finances and your area.

 

Other then financially I still stand by my words. I've seen other use the step towards divorce very effectively. I'm not sure but a contested divorce seems much more expensive then an uncontested one like carhill said.

 

But carhill point about it marring the marriage and relationship.... I don't see how it could be worse then a cheating wife.

 

At the very least you should talk to her about finances and the reality of divorce. Work out a plan. Maybe not right this second but it should be on the table. She has to understand that divorce is always on the table. If she believes you won't divorce her she has less of a reason to work on R. Less of a reason to make the internal changes needed to be a safe wife.

 

At the very very least go see a lawyer and see your options. Maybe get the paperwork drawn up.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Adotta

[BluesPower]

Guys, it is money well spent...

 

I know it costs a lot of money, but OP is pretty young, and every dime he spends on a divorce, in whatever fashion, he will consider it the best money he has ever spent.

 

The way this thing is going, and what has gone on already, is just too much.

 

Trust me guys, I got out for a little less than a hundred grand, total, because I don't have too much money, and I would have spent twice that to be where I am now.

[carhill]

Yes, I did divorce and it cost me about 20 years of my life's work, meaning what I had slowly saved over 20 years. I would suggest the OP not make such a decision immediately and while in the throes of discovery of an emotional (no evidence of sexual yet) affair.

 

If that kind of dough is WAM to the OP, cool, blow her out. 40, prime earning years, spend some extra for a nice custody battle over the 4 year old, make her pay. The men will be cheering. Heck I will too. Seen so many friends beat up in divorces it's time for some revenge.

 

OP, if you go the nuclear route, you do know you'll be kicking her out of the marital home, right? She probably won't want to go. Ever watch 'War of the Roses'? Watch it tonight. Get proficient at pissing on the fish.

 

Good luck!

[WilyWill]

I don't know if they had sex or not, but it sounds like your wife was ready and willing and was pursuing him. If sex didn't happen, the only reason was that he refused her. So I would still count this as physical infidelity. You've got to weigh this fact, and the lying, in order to make an informed decision.

Edited June 16, 2018 by WilyWill

[tokentowely]

100 grand for divorce....Wow. I can see money well spent to end something really bad, but that’d wipe me out and then some.....We saw the therapist who suggested my wife give up dancing for a while and had some good insight....but i find myself unable to shake the thoughts of: this would still be going on had i not found it out, maybe for years until something physical did happen (if indeed she is not lying about that part).... How many messages would they have exchanged on fathers day and this week? The betrayal i feel for her actions does not seem to have a solution....what can she say? I also feel like i’ve wasted my life with her to a certain extent. I didnt know we were in a relationship where we could sneak behind each others back to fulfill whatever emotional or sexual desires we had....thinking back through our time together, i have straight up turned down 5 offers for relationships with other women, most of them drop dead gorgeous.....so my wife got to go out and play for at least 5 months, maybe other times too....Where’s my damn play?? Instead i am left with my soul ripped out of my chest....a partner i no longer trust.....our relationship dashed against the rocks for a hollow fling with a geezer.....and likely years of torment trying to deal with this mentally. It is obvious now my wife has serious confidence, ego, and constant need for validation issues, i dont know if that is something one can grow out of at 45....she is dispondent over what she has done and is sorry and has offered to become my “dog” if i dont leave her.....i have no need for anything like that, and i know she will say anything including lie to try and salvage our relationship. I am lost with grief and not knowing what to do or how to act around her anymore.