choosing between girlfriend and family

[whichwayisup]

 

What sort of glimpse of the future does this foretell?

 

Drama, roller coaster rides, fighting, pain, frustration, anger, resentment, tears, anger, more drama and losing any respect for one another.

 

Get out now. This woman will ruin your life if you let her. What you feel now about her (the negative stuff) magnify that 100x if you choose to continue on with her. Give this some thought.

[Garcon1986]

well a very unusual thing happened. I tried to break down the source of the argument and asked her to see common ground between myself, herself, and my parents. I said that we could all get along, if she agrees to speak with my parents with an inquisitive attitude (answer them with oh why do you think that way?) - and I will commit to asking my parents to not nitpick every little thing, and stand up for the great parts of our relationship. We kind of made up with each other and had a fun afternoon in an escape game after that. Both parties agreed to do things to meet each other halfway. Took a while, with me stepping outside my comfort zone, but seems to have at least resolved this conflict.

 

What is your opinion of that?

[Versacehottie]

well a very unusual thing happened. I tried to break down the source of the argument and asked her to see common ground between myself, herself, and my parents. I said that we could all get along, if she agrees to speak with my parents with an inquisitive attitude (answer them with oh why do you think that way?) - and I will commit to asking my parents to not nitpick every little thing, and stand up for the great parts of our relationship. We kind of made up with each other and had a fun afternoon in an escape game after that. Both parties agreed to do things to meet each other halfway. Took a while, with me stepping outside my comfort zone, but seems to have at least resolved this conflict.

 

What is your opinion of that?

 

well for your sake I'm hopeful. Honestly though I like to study the repetitive patterns that you see over and over in various relationships. I think that people who cause drama to the extent that she did will do it again, in other words i think this is temporary. Of course, most people would be very upset when they find out their potential in laws don't like things about them--it's the way she dealt with it and what preceded it that had you go running to them that I think are part of her character and personality, thus will resurface.

 

For your parents, I think they will try hard but you planted a bad seed with them about her. If they see those signs again, they will also probably retreat to their past ways.

 

I hope I'm wrong. If I were you, it's good to be optimistic but you will need to see growth and change over time to put your true faith into it. One instance is just one instance--the rest has been a pattern. Until a new, better pattern emerges, I wouldn't be convinced that the old ones wouldn't resurface. So stay optimistic but have your eye on what is really happening. The best part is that you went out of your comfort zone to seek this change--that's why you got it, whether it was temporary or will be lasting, both sides knew you weren't playing! Good luck

[sandylee1]

There's no chance I'd marry into such a family as yours.

 

The things they said about her were awful and you will never stand up for her where your family are concerned.

 

End the relationship and let her find someone else and you find a girl your parents are happy with

 

I would hate to be the subject of discussion in your family like she is.

 

Is there a cultural difference between you. Apologies if that has been answered.

[Garcon1986]

yes she is Ukrainian, I am Chinese. The biggest point of contention here is that the parents on my side analyze both of us, and try to point out things in the future that might be tough in our relationship and try to suggest ways to avoid those pitfalls. Both my parents are PhDs and thoroughly analyze the risks and benefits of everything. In her family, that is not their custom at all - they believe in: if two people have love and feelings for each other, they can just stand up to each challenge as it comes along and ask parents for advice as needed. No analysis. I ask her to come to the table with an attitude of scientific inquisitiveness - oh, why do you think that way - and then discuss. She interprets it as feeling judged, and not being able to be at ease. I have tried to negotiate with both parties and stand up for my relationship but there is still a risk she will be sensitive and interpret things the negative way.

[fieldoflavender]

As a girl - I see ++++ red flags and I would run FAST far and FAR FAR away from your family. Nothing wrong with them, but I hate controlling and meddling families. Your family seems way too involved - you're an adult, it's your life. They need to let go. You're picking a life partner, you're living with them, not them.

 

I had similar problems with my ex - and he picked them and that was that. It's not about making them pick but seriously, if as as grown man, you can't figure out who you want to marry - your wife or your family, then it's a deal breaker.

[fieldoflavender]

And just to add, I think spare her and find someone who is meek and agreeable and someone your parents love. It'll be easier for you. If you loved this girl enough, you would stand up for her against your parents and not text your ex.

[guest569]

I think your parents are wise to consider such things but is it not putting a negative spin on the future and problems that may never eventuate? Do they want your relationship to succeed? They have made it clear that they don’t approve of certain things about your partner but do they support your relationship? Have a brief conversation with them to state what you want from your relationship and gain their support. I believe that for things to succeed you need to make it clear to them that you love this woman and want a lifetime with her (if that is indeed what you want) and that their criticism of her has put that in jeopardy. If they continue to do so, you will need to be firm and distance yourself from them.

 

I think that this issue needs to be overcome beteeen you and your parents. I see it as a separate issue to your relationship issues.While your girlfriend may continue to demand details of what you discuss with your parents, I think the best thing is whilst being honest, don’t drag out the details or dwell on it. Make it clear to her that you support her and (hopefully following your discussion with parents) that they too support your relationship.

 

I think this can be mended IF it is what you truly want.

 

I would tackle this and then work more on the issues in your relationship. Because if your girlfriend knows that you and your parents are on her side, I think that is half the battle and will allow her to have the confidence to trust you again.

[d0nnivain]

well a very unusual thing happened. I tried to break down the source of the argument and asked her to see common ground between myself, herself, and my parents. I said that we could all get along, if she agrees to speak with my parents with an inquisitive attitude (answer them with oh why do you think that way?) - and I will commit to asking my parents to not nitpick every little thing, and stand up for the great parts of our relationship. We kind of made up with each other and had a fun afternoon in an escape game after that. Both parties agreed to do things to meet each other halfway. Took a while, with me stepping outside my comfort zone, but seems to have at least resolved this conflict.

 

What is your opinion of that?

 

 

It's a start but if she continues to feel judged & thinks that when you ask for a supportive spouse you are seeking a maid, those may be stumbling blocks that you cannot over come.

 

 

Some times the cultural differences create a chasm that is too wide to bridge.

[Versacehottie]

I think that this issue needs to be overcome beteeen you and your parents. I see it as a separate issue to your relationship issues.

 

 

I totally agree with smiley on this part. It really is a separate issue which is exhibiting itself due to the fact that you are in a relationship and choose to disclose details of your relationship with them.

 

If you want independence from your parents, you must ACT independent--especially if their cultural upbringing or just who they are already has a tendency to interfere. Probably SOME level of this would occur with whoever you were dating and considering a future with. Probably their level of meddling and criticism would bug you to some extent. So a portion of this problem is you learning how to be respectful toward them but not live underneath them.

 

As far as your girlfriend, your most recent post, OP, just keeps hammering home that you have very different values. Does it really matter where they come from (cultural, etc)? The point is that you are not on the same page with how you view and deal with life and importantly, your life together. People's core values rarely change.

[Garcon1986]

She claims shes not satisfied with her medical admin career and wants to change to medicine. She has started the process of changing by taking after school courses. I told her how important her professional satisfaction is to me, however she isn’t truly willing to change her career (she isn’t necessarily willing to live like a student temporarily to really make that jump). I said I was willing to support either career path, promotion or change, but not the status quo. Why does she keep saying that she needs to be engaged to make that jump? Why can’t she do this in spite of me?

[JuneL]

OP: Are you embarrassed that, as a cardiologist trained at Harvard Medical School, you have a partner who is merely an administrative assistant in a hospital? But she can take care of the administrative part of your practice once you are on your own.

[Garcon1986]

It doesn’t embarrass me, it doesn’t sit well with me that she would be resigned to staying in that job when she clearly stated dissatisfaction.

[Versacehottie]

To be honest, you sound like you are judging her in a similar way to what your parents would do.

 

Why are you trying to make her into something she is not? Why not just accept her as she is---or be honest with yourself that having a partner who is as career driven as you are is a high priority?

 

btw, have you considered that someone with a less "important" career is one logistical way that you would be able to create a family with her--while if she was completely career-driven and starting over that would make family matters most likely more difficult? She still sounds a bit headstrong tbh. She seems like she wants the perks of being taken care of but also to be treated completely like an independent, self-sufficient woman. Maybe you are picking up subconsciously on that disconnect?

[sandylee1]

I don't think you guys are a good match. The cultural differences will cause issues.

 

My experience is that many Chinese people are very driven, academic and hard working... with high work ethics.

 

Your Ukrainian GF is headstrong and just isn't going to fit in with your family.

 

She doesn't want to have scientific arguments about things...She doesnt feel the need to justify herself and I don't blame her in that regard.

 

Marrying her would cause no end of problems.

[Garcon1986]

Well I'm out of the relationship and am healed up from the initial mourning of loss. Here's a few questions as I look back:

 

How do I recognize emotional manipulation early and stop it?

 

I can't live with someone who refuses to grow/ improve herself. I do however believe there is a compromise, where two partners can organically grow with time and complement each other's strengths and weaknesses. Where is a good balance between the two?

 

How do you speak about a prenuptial agreement in a socially acceptable fashion?

 

When you speak with a girlfriend who wants you to be transparent, but keeps on accusing you of being not transparent, what's wrong here? All those nights expressing my thoughts didn't count? I really appreciated it though, when she was transparent with me. It meant I didn't have to guess at all, to what she was thinking. I really resent it when women play the what am I thinking game and get irritated when I guess wrong.

 

When a girlfriend disputes the need for me to visit my parents, how do I resolve that conflict nicely? I tried everything I could possibly say, but she still said I was hiding something from her.

 

How do you avoid arousing a woman's need to flip through my cellphone? My previous relationship ended when my old ex woke up in the middle of the night and read my entire gmail. My most recent relationship's worst aspect was her need to always see my cellphone when we were together. She would complain if I talked too long to my parents (and she called at the same time). She would accuse me of texting other girls if I was stopped at a red light in the car (and we drove two cars). She would immediately asked me "what are you hiding?", if I tried to take my cellphone with me to a restaurant restroom. It became the never ending pleading of innocence.

[Els]

Ummm. I'm glad you two broke up, because this would never have worked out. That being said, you do know that NO woman in her right mind would ever put up with being brought over to the parents' house at a few months of dating and then being subjected to a barrage of criticism, right? I do get that this is "acceptable" in very traditional pockets of your culture, but you have to understand that barring going back to China and picking up a girl from a literal village, this is NOT something that anyone will accept - let alone a woman with a good career and education. It's one thing for your parents to express concern privately to you, another thing entirely for them to spew all that out at her. It astounds me that you still expected her to get along with your parents and to "resolve everything peacefully" despite them doing that. Frankly, if my parents ever did that to my partner, that would be the last time I ever brought anyone to meet them - and my culture isn't too far from yours.

 

All of your current questions are faulting your ex, who indeed seems rather excessively controlling, but you are failing to address the very pertinent issue of what you allow your parents to get away with. I don't see you having any successful relationships in your current society until you do.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Elswyth

[Els]

Also those of us that are seeing it through a westernized perspective see it as meddling and animosity filtered through our norms. Having spent some time in Asia (but by no means an expert), I think when they say something that Westerners think as critical and criticizing they aren't necessarily doing it for "bad" reasons. They are doing it to "help" out and better you. Maybe someone who has truly lived this Asian or Chinese culture could expand on that. Or even better, since it mirrors the OP's situation, someone who has straddled having parents from the Asian culture and being 1st generation in a Western one. That can be tough no matter what the specific background is.

 

Anyway, not saying the OP won't have issues because it's human nature to want your independence in lots of ways, even if you understand the cultural conditioning behind it or are a product of it.

 

 

There are varying degrees of overbearing parents (or "traditionality", lol) in Asian cultures. Truth be told, times have moved on, and even in most East Asian cities nowadays, you would rarely see parents behaving as terribly as the OP's. Having grown up in one, I have met quite a few sets of parents and have never seen anything like that. I imagine this behaviour could still happen in very traditional Asian villages, but rarely anywhere else, in this day and age.

 

 

Cultural conditioning is very true and real, and indeed people who are culturally conditioned from growing up in Asian cultures can struggle with dating/relationships in Western ones. But the OP's case is still a very extreme one IMO.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Elswyth

[Garcon1986]

My parents said that all their criticisms could have been stopped if only my ex was willing to say, at the first point of criticism, "Oh, let me think about why you said that", or "I'll take your views into consideration". Her denial of everything partially contributed into the criticism getting more and more painful for the both of us. Is that too much to ask of a prospective date?

[Els]

My parents said that all their criticisms could have been stopped if only my ex was willing to say, at the first point of criticism, "Oh, let me think about why you said that", or "I'll take your views into consideration". Her denial of everything partially contributed into the criticism getting more and more painful for the both of us. Is that too much to ask of a prospective date?

 

 

Yes, it's still way out of line to criticize someone to their face like that, especially someone whom you are meeting for the first time! And "criticizing" someone about a disease that they have no control over is just plain senseless and rude. I mean, what would your impression of someone be if YOU had scoliosis and they got all up in your face about that?

 

Have you ever met a girl's parents before? How did they treat you - were they gracious hosts and welcomed you into their home and tried to make pleasant conversation with you? Or did they start criticizing your height, your shoulders, your manner of speech, etc.?

 

It really concerns me that you see absolutely nothing wrong with this. While your ex certainly sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder, the things your parents said to her reflect more about them than her.

[Garcon1986]

I will say that I had a very stern talk with my parents after my breakup, and told them that they were partially responsible for the relationship ending on such a sour note. I do view that approach as fairly irresponsible and let them know it. The next time I'll have to essentially date for me and them.

 

 

I will add something to this story that maybe I didn't clarify the last time: the terrible meeting I referenced was the fourth time they met. The previous three times, no such criticism was discussed. I did meet the girls parents and they took a hands off approach as long as both of us were happy. My parents I think started to get the impression that she didn't have strong enough work ethic to get herself out of her career conundrum, and was seeking me out as a free way to get to a comfortable life. The first three meetings consisted of niceties and probing questions. Yes I do interpret the meeting as extremely harsh and would never personally want to be on the receiving end of such a thing.

[preraph]

If you don't stop relying on your parents and letting them get involved in your love life, your love life isn't going to go well. Until you stop giving them this much control -- you are still a boy, not a man. Part of growing up and becoming a man is taking control back from your parents.

[Garcon1986]

In my household, we typically think about each other's advice first before accepting or turning it down. What's the worth in turning down my parent's advice purely because it's from my parents? I live quite independently from my parents with my own job, leisure time, freedom to take trips, etc etc. I don't see where ignoring your parents [in a general sense] is a part of growing up. I do however see what just happened to me as quite the disaster. I won't make the same mistake again.

[JuneL]

In my household, we typically think about each other's advice first before accepting or turning it down. What's the worth in turning down my parent's advice purely because it's from my parents? I live quite independently from my parents with my own job, leisure time, freedom to take trips, etc etc. I don't see where ignoring your parents [in a general sense] is a part of growing up. I do however see what just happened to me as quite the disaster. I won't make the same mistake again.

 

Good. Before long, they will be telling you how your kids should be raised.

[heavenonearth]

My parents said that all their criticisms could have been stopped if only my ex was willing to say, at the first point of criticism, "Oh, let me think about why you said that", or "I'll take your views into consideration". Her denial of everything partially contributed into the criticism getting more and more painful for the both of us. Is that too much to ask of a prospective date?

 

 

Yes it is too much to ask if the 'criticisms' include the below:

 

 

They said she has scoliosis, that she is too weak to be a mother, that she will have joint issues, that she will become unhealthy, that she is too narrowminded, that she is someone who won't have a great job in the future.

 

I still find it unbelievably grotesque how your parents talked about her. If anyone would say such things about me, I'd be heartbroken. It's unforgivable.