No contact (Day 18) miss my stubborn ex so much...will she come back?

[Downtown]

Anths, I agree with Clam that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., the strong jealousy, instability, anger issues, and rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing you -- are some of the warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has the full-blown disorder (only a professional can determine whether her symptoms are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD). Rather, I'm suggesting she might be exhibiting moderate to strong symptoms, regardless of whether they meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. And Sal provides a concise and insightful account of what it's like to live with a BPDer for 23 years in his 3/16 post. If those descriptions ring many bells and raise questions, I would be glad to join Clam and other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Anths.

[anths]

Thank yo so much for the BPD info. I definitely see certain signs in those descriptions, although not all of them - but a lot. #1, #2, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #15, #18.

 

As a major disappointment to myself...I ended up seeing her at church tonight. I caved and spoke to her. I said "hey, fancy seeing you here. would you like to come talk and say hey for a second?". She responded by flicking her hair and said "I'll talk to . She was with her friends and one was giving me the total evil-eye for sure.

 

Sent her a text that said, "Nice brush off. It's all good. Expected.". After the service everybody was in the hallway talking. I saw her and saw her look at me, but then course yapping with her friends and laughing - most likely at me because her and her friend looked at me at the same time. She literally walked out of the church like she was on a catwalk...I actually felt myself smirking/laughing and saying to myself, "are you kidding?!?!"

 

Anyway, I feel like throwing up, but at the same time I'm pretty repulsed by the way she acted - starting with me being cordial. So, I broke no contact - but I'm still not sure it was a bad thing. The text wasn't good - but at least I found out what she's about.

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 24, 2018 by anths

[NomiMalone]

She was acting out and being passive aggressive because she's mad and disappointed that you hadn't broken NC (for those 19 days) like she wanted you to. I think you hit the nail on the head when in an earlier post you said she's looking to be with a man who won't make her face her issues, which is sad for her.

 

You sound like someone kind natured and forgiving, and maybe unable to fully fathom how egotistic and manipulative some people can be.

[anths]

You know - what you say makes a lot of sense. She probably couldn't believe that I didn't beg and plead after we broke up for the time period I was in no contact. My thought was that she was still in that "angry place" that she goes in to help herself justify her behavior...but passive aggressive is a better term.

 

On your comment on men - I noticed that about her past relationships. It's a childish cycle:

- If a man stands up for himself in any way, she gets angry because she may have to face herself and that she is a part of a two-person relationship.

- If the man is a complete and total pushover (like her ex before me), she gets bored and grows tired of him.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was a pushover ini some ways in our relationship - but definitely far from a complete and total pushover. And yes, while I know everybody is different, in this situation with her I've asked myself several times how in the world does someone act this cold, heartless, and flat out mean/angry like this.

[anths]

***UPDATE***

 

Literally after last night happened, my friend sent me a text that he saw her profile picture was new on Match.com!! I am in awe for real (not in a depressed way)!!!

 

The other text he sent me has her profile and it says, "I'm not here looking for drama, hook ups, playing games, pen pals. I'm looking for something and someone real!" Bahaha

 

plus, he said that she's got the actual income requirement for her male matches on her profile with the top income listed. Wow!

[bluecastle]

My friend, it's time to let this go. Sooner than later, you'll realized you dodged a big bullet.

 

I just got to the other side of something similar myself: 3 years with a woman. She was great in many ways, frustrating in others, but I loved her to pieces, even when she went off the rails and ended up cheating on me, manipulating me, and taking advantage of me. Even then I was constantly looking for the next chess move, chastising myself, chastising her, clinging to the whole thing with white knuckles. I was so, so drawn to her—the chemistry!—that I couldn't imagine feeling the same pull again.

 

But you know what? I let it go, took some real space (months) to process the whole thing, and in time it seemed almost crazy that I'd been in the damn thing for so long. I've started dating again, 4 months post breakup, and it's been pretty revelatory. Nothing serious, but a refreshing reminder that there are women out there who are so very compelling without the drama.

[CantTakeMySmile]

Well, it appeared that you were just kinda waiting the right amount of days to contact her anyway. So, now you have just skipped all that waiting, and now you have your answer. That is a good thing?

[anths]

You know, I found my answer in a couple of ways:

1.) If I were to beg her back, it's only going to feed her ego while she's out searching for another guy.

2.) This situation will happen with the next guy, and the next. I am sure of that and honestly I find some solace in that as bad as it sounds. It just won't be me getting used and then people seeing her on dating sites 3 weeks after a breakup.

3.) Vicious cycle: guy sticks up for himself, she’ll power play/control/break up like she did. Guy is a pushover: she’ll get bored. That’s built into her.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know there are going to be good days and bad days. I'm not going to kid myself. And I know that I shouldn't have said anything last night at all, adhering to no contact.

 

But, I feel it produced all of what I saw and was shown, so it may not be that much of a bad thing I said something. Now though, I won't contact her at all. She won't get the pleasure.

[bluecastle]

Soon you'll look back at all this and just kind of shrug and laugh.

 

Five weeks ago I was spending every second fretting about my ex: should I say something, why won't she, blah blah. I stayed quiet, realizing deep down that I was just in the process of burning off energy by overthinking things. And, eventually, I just kind of ran out of energy and FELT what I KNEW: that there wasn't anything there to hold onto that would feed me the way I need.

 

Lo and behold, a few days ago she texted me a little hello. There was a little jolt of adrenaline, sure, but all in all it just didn't matter. I didn't need to overthink things. That energy was just used up.

 

Stay strong, eyes on the horizon not what's behind you.

[anths]

Thank you so much for the words on encouragement!! I feel like last night said a lot to me without saying it. She would just use me again - like the next guy. But I don't have to be that next guy.

 

So what did you do when your ex texted you? Did you respond? It's interesting to hear how these stories play out.

 

I am determined that the only way that I will even entertain a text is if she says something along the lines of "I made a mistake - let's talk" - and even then it's very debatable.

 

Also a funny thing I remembered today...I asked her when she told me about her last ex if she ever still spoke to him. I remember her reply was, "he doesn't reply to most of my texts unless it's been for the internet password.". I guess he had the right idea...haha.

Edited January 25, 2018 by anths

[bluecastle]

You know, whether she is exactly the same with the next guy or this serves as her wakeup call and she makes some changes doesn't really matter. She is not for you right now—that's what matters. That's the present tense, which, really, is the only tense.

 

It's funny what you said about replying (maybe) only if she said something like, "I made a mistake." That was, and in ways remains, my attitude with my ex, but that was only in the context of reconciliation. IF we were ever going to work again—and, believe me, I so wanted that for months—I needed to see that she could change and hold herself accountable. But after a few weeks of real space, I realized that (a) probably wasn't who she is right now; and (b) waiting/hoping wasn't getting me what I needed. That's really when I started to let go.

 

Anyhow, when my ex texted me ("Saw you on the street today. Just wanted to say hi and hope you're doing well.") I did reply. Short and sweet: "Hope you're doing well too."

 

Why? Because I realized I didn't care so much anymore. I was done playing chess. I hurt her, she hurt me—it all is what it is. I've gone on some great dates with one woman, and am about to meet an ex of 10 years for...well, we don't quite know. But it could be something special. Point being, I've been working on me, in therapy, and have found some joy elsewhere so her text just didn't mean that much.

 

Was my ex trying to reengage with her text? Or did she just want attention, a little ego boost? Or was she wanting to feel less guilty about the past as she moves on? Blah, blah: I just don't have the energy anymore to spin around in those thoughts. I don't want to be her friend right now, but I don't need the drama.

 

I'm not over it by any means. That's just going to take more time, and, who knows, maybe she'll end up reaching out again and throwing me of a loop. Or maybe not. The universe knows those answers, but I don't. I'm just living in the present again, not trying to narrate or control the outcome, if that makes sense.

 

You'll get there. It's a bitch of a journey, but if you listen to the lessons, instead of gripping the wheel with white knuckles, you'll find it's a worthwhile one. I know I have.

[anths]

You hit the nail on the head that I have to live in the present tense...she is not right for me and whether she changes or not, I'm not in her life and she's not in mine.

 

I have a question for you and the forum: Is it ok to feel mad right now? Is this normal in terms of reaction and moving on? Why I ask is mornings are the worst for me. As soon as I wake up, I feel sorrow. Then, I think about how I was used for many months, then all of sudden told she sees no future. Then the whole church thing a couple of days ago when she shrugged me off and I was trying to be nice. Finally, the fact that she is on multiple dating sites now with only three weeks of not talking.

 

Once I think about those things, I get angry. I tell myself to stay very mad right now and think of the negatives about her. I do this because I've got to get myself out of putting her on a pedestal, thinking that because she is so pretty and charming that she definitely will make herself busy every night of the week with a guy. Those thoughts lead to the sorrow.

 

I know one day I will not be mad, but I've got to find something and some way to get the thoughts of romanticizing her out of my mind. I've found the only way to do that (at least for today) is to stay angry. Also,I think about I'm not the last guy this will happen to. If she's looking to have a baby before she gets older by another year or two...I imagine she'll find some wealthy guy to dupe and then that will be his misery.

 

Just looking to see if anyone else has had these thoughts.

[CantTakeMySmile]

You hit the nail on the head that I have to live in the present tense...she is not right for me and whether she changes or not, I'm not in her life and she's not in mine.

 

I have a question for you and the forum: Is it ok to feel mad right now? Is this normal in terms of reaction and moving on? Why I ask is mornings are the worst for me. As soon as I wake up, I feel sorrow. Then, I think about how I was used for many months, then all of sudden told she sees no future. Then the whole church thing a couple of days ago when she shrugged me off and I was trying to be nice. Finally, the fact that she is on multiple dating sites now with only three weeks of not talking.

 

Once I think about those things, I get angry. I tell myself to stay very mad right now and think of the negatives about her. I do this because I've got to get myself out of putting her on a pedestal, thinking that because she is so pretty and charming that she definitely will make herself busy every night of the week with a guy. Those thoughts lead to the sorrow.

 

I know one day I will not be mad, but I've got to find something and some way to get the thoughts of romanticizing her out of my mind. I've found the only way to do that (at least for today) is to stay angry. Also,I think about I'm not the last guy this will happen to. If she's looking to have a baby before she gets older by another year or two...I imagine she'll find some wealthy guy to dupe and then that will be his misery.

 

Just looking to see if anyone else has had these thoughts.

 

 

I think you are super lucky you have met the ANGER stage! Some of us struggle getting there and live in the romanticizing stage way too long! Good Job!

[anths]

It's not every day all of the time for sure. But I'm trying to make it right in my mind what a total user b**** that she is and that she is a user. Staying with someone for 6 months?! Never offering to pay for a thing?! Brushing me off like that?! Yeah - I know I'm not the last guy that will happen to.

 

But I can't lie - there are times where I miss her, but I think about it was mainly from the first 6 months. After that first big breakup where she blocked me things were never the same.

 

I have also realized some things about myself after reflecting. SO HARD to change and it will take time, but I see with the last 2 ex's how I was out of a relationship, jumped on Bumble for example, and the first pretty girl that gave me that "attention" I jumped on. I believe I did this because the hurt of being alone (fear of abandonment, rejection) for a while was much more painful than recognizing red flags. With my ex before this current one, it was obvious from the first 1-2 months. With this last, it took a bit longer - but they were a lot of the same.

 

So, this falls on me and since I recognize those patterns to break them. So in other words I get pissed at the current ex for her actions - but I hurt and feel intense pain from being alone, having that companion that I do something with every day, have communication with every day and have those intense "feelings of love/lust" that keep me in a relationship long after I shouldn't be in it. THAT is the crux of why I hurt so intensely right now.

[bluecastle]

I think whatever you feel is okay. Just FEEL it, whatever it is, and accept that that's where you're supposed to be right now. It's a process, man, and you have to live it.

 

With my ex, I've alternated between fury, longing, compassion, empathy, numbness, lust, whatever—sometimes in the the same minute. Ultimately, I'm kind of built toward forgiveness—I was far from perfect in the beginning, we had a good stretch, and she kind of went off the rails and cheated at the end. Good times, bad times, some new scars, sure, but that's life. We're all human. We did the best we could, and it was enough for a bit, and then not. As with all my relationships, I'm certain this will make me a better person, which is all I really want out of life—that quest for my highest self.

 

Eventually all the feelings just start getting dimmer—that's kind of the stage I'm at now, and it's nice. Sad, of course, but inevitable.

 

A fire without oxygen can only burn so long.

[basil67]

How did she use you? I thought it was mutually agreed that the two of you had gotten back together the second time.

[anths]

Well, let me say it like this: she used me and I put myself in the position to be used. The second time around I could tell that "spark" wasn't there with her for 6 months. At that point (and hindsight, right?) I should have ended it and not been a beta male. Instead, I got taken because she was "comfortable" (and I use that term loosely), stayed with me to get over me, while using me financially. So, that's why I am saying I put myself in this position.

 

I feel (today at least) the way it ended and she brushed me off, didn't want to hear me, and didn't talk to me for 3 weeks - she deserves a chance with me. Not the other way around.

[anths]

Well - today is one of those sad days for me, so I figured I would post to get some encouragement from the forum...

 

I've done a good job I feel over the last couple of days (since I saw her Sunday) with staying busy and staying "angry". I haven't tried to contact my ex, nor has she tried to contact me. In fact, I went out on a date last night and the woman was very pretty and even better down-to-earth (at least what you can tell from a first date).

 

Today, I guess maybe it's because it's the weekend, I keep replaying in my mind the 6 months prior after our first breakup. Asking myself could I have done anything differently. Yes, there is a lot that I could have and I have nobody to blame but myself for that. I also know that it wasn't 100% me and my shortcomings.

 

I'm also thinking about her and the dates she could have gone on last night. There's a small part of me that hopes that she dates a couple of jerks or players (there's a LOT of those in ATL for sure), then she'll realize that even though we had our issues, I have most if not all of the qualities of a good mate. I do know at least that she would have to come to that decision on her if she ever does, and no amount of convincing is going to change that...just make me look needy and feel like crap.

 

Then I start thinking about her and her ex's that she went out with for much longer than us, her words, "when I done with you I'm done.". So, I also know that there is a big chance that in fact she is done 100% and I may never hear from her again. That nearly brings tears to my eyes, but what can I do? I gotta admit, that hurts pretty badly. I'm trying to keep thinking about the crappy things she did to me, basically waiting for me to breakup with her while she picked fights, blamed it on me, had sex, and took me for a ride financially until she was done. I also hold in my mind that she did tell me about contacting her last ex, but he would never reply. She and her friends mentioned that she sat in her home for basically 6 months and watched CNN...couldn't do anything. Her friends convinced her to go out. Now, she's out ALL OF THE TIME. That makes me feel like crap - like I meant absolutely nothing to her. It's like, ok this guy you knew you didn't want to be with, staying with him, and was sad for a while when you broke up. Me - well, I am apparently easily forgotten and disposable. It hurts.

 

I saw her on a dating app and I'm very sure that she saw my profile also. I wanted to get out there and test the waters, which I did last night. I had fun, but it seems like this morning it hit me kind of hard - and to be honest I'm not really sure why.

 

Just feeling sad and hurt and I don't really understand why today...ugh!

Edited January 27, 2018 by anths

[Marc878]

Be glad she's gone.

[anths]

I wish it were that easy. I’ve been a wreck all day. I was on my way to the gym and sa her pass by...great! Just what I needed today. Needless to say my heart sank.

[BluSpark]

I'll be honest OP: She sounds HORRIBLE...I don't care how HOT she is physically.

 

You should count your lucky stars you didn't marry her or for God's sake have a kid with this lady.

 

As others have stated...it is ok to hurt over it. But let her shallowness and emptiness make you grateful you are not with her!

[anths]

Thank you for that. Good grief I made some mistakes in our relationship. I totally became the Beta male. I get it. I feel like I drove her away being like this...scratch that...I know I did. I wish I had the chance to do things differently. Somehow, I still feel it wouldn't work out. The second time she scratched my face until it bled, it should have been time to get out. Why do I feel this much misery over a woman???

[bluecastle]

Feeling for you, buddy. So much of what you're going through is exactly what I've been going through: the anger giving way to longing, the longing giving into bargaining thoughts, the attempts to remind yourself of what wasn't working feeling just like that—an attempt, not always successful, to get your head on straight. And everything you say about your ex taking advantage of you financially, passively trying to get you to end it—you could be describing mine.

 

It is all OKAY.

 

This is the process, and remember that the pain you feel right now is there because, for all the shortcomings, you did share something real. You connected. Your heart opened. And that, while always risky, is the best thing in life: the source of so much pleasure, and, even in the pain, so many lessons.

 

It's good that you're looking back at your own behavior as well right now. You don't need to totally chastise yourself, but asking those questions is what's going to allow you to be a better partner down the line.

 

I'd imagine part of what has you thrown right now is that you went on a date. No matter how great the date is, it's always jarring in this state. You inevitably compare the person to your ex, and you inevitably start imagining your ex in the same position, crafting narratives that feed your pain.

 

Just remember: it's okay to NOT date also. You don't need to date because she might be dating, and you don't need to date to numb the pain. Just feel it, sit with it, knowing that it's shaping you into a better person. To blot it out—well, that's not going to work, because it's ultimately impossible.

 

My biggest challenge is to remind myself of two things: that what I had with my ex wasn't working and that, for all the pain she caused me, we both did our best. Which was enough for a while, and then it wasn't. I hurt her plenty too, after all, and while it's easy to just focus on her shortcomings, remembering my own makes the whole thing more human and allows me to keep that openness in my heart.

 

You'll get there. You're getting there.

[anths]

WOW! Thank you for those comments...it does seem a lot of the same situation. These questions I cannot get out of my head...

 

1.) Why doesn't she miss me enough to text/call?

2.) How can she throw all of what we had away?

 

I guess while I'm moving on and actively improving myself, she may have to date a couple of jerks and either realize what we had wasn't so bad and/or see I've improved.

 

I am still friends with two or her friends on FB I just realized. I've posted some activities that I've been doing: exercise, having clean fun, etc. (I don't drink anymore). There's a part of me that hopes that they talk to her about how I'm improving...I literally took all of the things she said negative about me and started to totally change them: first to "prove" to her that I could even though she wasn't around. This is changing to doing it for me.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense...

[Marc878]

WOW! Thank you for those comments...it does seem a lot of the same situation. These questions I cannot get out of my head...

 

1.) Why doesn't she miss me enough to text/call?

2.) How can she throw all of what we had away?

 

The reality is she doesn't care or she wouldn't have ended it would she?

I guess while I'm moving on and actively improving myself, she may have to date a couple of jerks and either realize what we had wasn't so bad and/or see I've improved.

 

That won't change who she is.

 

I am still friends with two or her friends on FB I just realized. I've posted some activities that I've been doing: exercise, having clean fun, etc. (I don't drink anymore). There's a part of me that hopes that they talk to her about how I'm improving...I literally took all of the things she said negative about me and started to totally change them: first to "prove" to her that I could even though she wasn't around. This is changing to doing it for me.

 

Trying to manipulate someone never works out well. It's a version of the "pick me dance". You end up just lowering your status.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense...

 

Life's an adjustment. Hard NC and you'll be fine.

 

Do what you want. Go your own way. Trying to live for someone else is a huge mistake.

 

As time passes you should see clearer. There are others out there that would be more compatable and suit you better. They always are.