She flaked - again - not sure now.

[Imajerk17]

I guess I was using an abundance of caution and didn't want to assume anything, especially after a night of drinking. The last thing I wanted to do was overstep the boundary of friendship and wake up in the morning having lost a friend.

 

In a way, maybe it was a damned if I do, damned if I don't kinda thing.

 

All is not lost. Not by any means. She is an adult, she has to get on some level that, contrary to what she may have heard, men are NOT always ready to have sex anytime, and that you may have been caught off-guard about what happened.

 

Meanwhile as far as your friendship changing, I think Pandora's Box has already been opened.

 

But it is on you to reach out to her. If you are attracted to her, then you need to tell her. ASAP.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Imajerk17

[dodger55]

Quit reading and CALL her make a dinner date for TONIGHT! Don't take no for an answer. She hit you with a 2x4 HARD. She wants to be with you!

[KBarletta]

Part of being an adult. If you're friends because you didn't have the forthrightness to clearly state your attraction and desire at the get-go, IMO that does trend to creepiness and I definitely was guilty of that as a young, generally clueless, man.

 

However, if you're friends and became friends without any such desire on your side, then later your feelings changed, that's valid and healthy. You're entitled as a human to change your mind and feel differently. What remains is communication.

 

Friendships are always at risk from something. This is a thing. The lady, it appears, even if a bit uninhibited by alcohol, communicated with you and invited you into her bed. Had you done that, do you think you'd be taking a risk? I'll bet you would. Why do you think it's any different for a woman, or female friend? Something to consider.

 

Anyway, that's my .02 as an old guy who dealt with this as recently as this last weekend. One thing this stuff definitely does is remind one that it's good to be alive. Just when one thinks the light is burnt out, boom Good luck!

 

I was attracted to her from day one, from the moment we met. But I was in a relationship at the time and she was just coming out of one, and so we just became friends.

 

So the thing that changed wasn't so much my feelings as my circumstances. Now, we're both single. But the friendship also is one of the best in my life and would be really hard to lose. She's not only like my best friend, but also is very close friends with many others in my circle.

 

The funny thing is, most of them already look at us like we're a couple because we're always together and anytime one of us shows up somewhere, the other one is there, too.

[KBarletta]

Quit reading and CALL her make a dinner date for TONIGHT! Don't take no for an answer. She hit you with a 2x4 HARD. She wants to be with you!

 

Ha. I already know she's busy tonight b/c we talk and text all the time. But I will be seeing her this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

 

I guess I wonder if anyone thinks its possible that this is something that friends (some friends) do without any romantic or sexual feelings, like they just like to cuddle and maybe feel lonely once in a while and maybe that's why she wanted me there that night.

 

I personally don't know anyone who does that, but I think it's a thing, especially for younger people. Maybe I'm wrong or just looking for reasons why she might NOT want to be with me.

[Space Ritual]

Come on Man...you are asking this question at 44 years old?

 

You'll never know until you float it out there for her. Quit asking us, and start asking her.

 

It's as plain to see as the nose on Shoeless Joe Jackson's face.

 

(I grew up right next to Comiskey Park on the South Side of Chicago, I am a die hard White Sox fan. Nice profile pic of Joe by the way.)

[carhill]

Thanks for the clarification and I understand completely regarding the relationship/timing thing. BTDT. However, what I learned to do was be clear in my interest as well as my respect for boundaries. That's what I did this past weekend. In your case, you and the lady in question are apparently both uncommitted/unmarried so it's IMO appropriate to explore whatever connection or attraction you've always apparently enjoyed, though consciously altered your behaviors to respect each other's relationship boundaries.

 

She opened the door. IME, the hard part is getting over the hump of setting aside and ignoring the previous behavior modifications and feeling the genuine and uninhibited lust and connection which has apparently been there. That was in part the reason for my prior advice regarding not sleeping with a woman you're not sleeping with in the sexual sense. Doing that (the platonic sleep thing) reinforced the prior inhibition to open sexual and romantic expression. If you want this to work you'll need to break that psychological barrier and accept the risks which come with that choice.

 

When I read your post, I can close my eyes and feel the pull in my own situation but have the experience to know not to feed that even with an overt invitation and flirtation in place. The person who did it is not available for a relationship so is off-limits. If someday I find myself in your situation, then I'll face the same challenges. Life does that. It'll work out. I hope it does for you.

[KBarletta]

Come on Man...you are asking this question at 44 years old?

 

You'll never know until you float it out there for her. Quit asking us, and start asking her.

 

It's as plain to see as the nose on Shoeless Joe Jackson's face.

 

(I grew up right next to Comiskey Park on the South Side of Chicago, I am a die hard White Sox fan. Nice profile pic of Joe by the way.)

 

Hell, it doesn't matter if I'm 22, 44, or 88, I'm still pretty dense when it comes to understanding women and their motivations. That's partly why I'm on these boards, looking for advice. Right?

 

But you're right - I will talk to her. But it never hurts to get other people's perspectives, no? It seems like the nearly universal sentiment here is that her asking me to sleep with her was a signal that she wants more.

 

I'm the type that always questions other people's motives, though, which is one reason why I like to get different perspectives like this. Doesn't mean I won't talk to her, but when I do I'll have a better clue as to what she's thinking or at least some idea of what goes on in other people's heads.

[KBarletta]

Come on Man...you are asking this question at 44 years old?

 

You'll never know until you float it out there for her. Quit asking us, and start asking her.

 

It's as plain to see as the nose on Shoeless Joe Jackson's face.

 

(I grew up right next to Comiskey Park on the South Side of Chicago, I am a die hard White Sox fan. Nice profile pic of Joe by the way.)

 

BTW - I wasn't sure how many people know who it is in my pic. Nice catch.

I'm from PA originally, but always loved the White Sox.

[coolheadal]

Hi all,

 

After a divorce and two fairly serious relationships, I found myself single again recently and have been spending a ton of time with a long-term friend who I have always found very attractive and who has always been very flirty and suggestive with me.

 

We've both been in and out of relationships over the past couple years and so neither of us has ever really tried anything with the other romantically. But the past several weeks she's gotten more flirty, touchy and suggestive with me.

 

The other day, we were hanging out late at her place and ended up going out for a late drink to a nearby bar. Then another one. We ended up staying out until nearly 1 a.m. and then going back to her house.

 

I had had a few drinks, so I waited a while before I was ready to drive home. By the time I did, it was about 2:30 a.m. I said my usual goodbye (a nice long hug) and said I'd call her the next day.

 

As I was driving away, my phone rang, and it was her, asking me to come back. I asked why, and she said, "I just miss you and I want you here next to me." I said, think it over and call me back. She called back a minute later and said the same thing. It took me a couple minutes to drive back and during that time, she called a third time to ask whether I was coming.

 

When I got back to her place, she took my hand and led me to her bed. I didn't know whether she might still be a little drunk, and I was exhausted, so I just laid down next to her in bed and fell asleep. When I woke up, she was holding my hand and had her arm around me.

 

This was a couple days ago and we've talked and texted a couple times since then but haven't mentioned the sleeping situation.

 

I guess I'm wondering, do you think this means she's interested in a relationship? I've never slept in the same bed with someone I wasn't interested in. (For reference, she's 38, I'm 44). Is it possible this doesn't mean anything? I just don't know. And I don't want to risk the friendship, but, again, I'm not used to women doing this sort of thing.

 

Any thoughts?

 

She told you right out she didn't want to sleep alone. Listen to what she's saying. We men don't listen always. Stop thinking about it so much. I bet you haven't slept again since then or have you. Take advantage of the moment. A lot of what you have described is going on behind close doors. I had opportunity to did this once and I was asked not to leave. So I had stayed and was lead to her bed and that started the relationship from then to 2017 that has ended. On the bright side I met a woman from work and everything working out she's here with me so far 1 week after her family issues where solved. I paid for her flight here to be with me. Everyday we drive to work in the same vehicle. Just feel so different to me. Sleep in the same bed and have fun.. That's what life is all about having fun. If this woman is interested in you, then go for it. Don't rush or push it let it happen my friend.

[KBarletta]

She told you right out she didn't want to sleep alone. Listen to what she's saying. We men don't listen always. Stop thinking about it so much. I bet you haven't slept again since then or have you. Take advantage of the moment. A lot of what you have described is going on behind close doors. I had opportunity to did this once and I was asked not to leave. So I had stayed and was lead to her bed and that started the relationship from then to 2017 that has ended. On the bright side I met a woman from work and everything working out she's here with me so far 1 week after her family issues where solved. I paid for her flight here to be with me. Everyday we drive to work in the same vehicle. Just feel so different to me. Sleep in the same bed and have fun.. That's what life is all about having fun. If this woman is interested in you, then go for it. Don't rush or push it let it happen my friend.

 

Don't worry - it's been a week. I have slept since then, and well. ;-)

 

So I've talked to her and it seems she wants a sort of halfway relationship, not exactly an open relationship but one with low expectations because we're both very cautious and very busy and not sure exactly where this is going ... so I don't know. We obviously are still struggling to define what we want I guess.

 

I'm still kind of wrestling with whether I want a full-on relationship here, because we're such good friends and have a large interconnected network of friends and coworkers and even family members to an extent. It's a lot to consider, if things go bad. And they could. Or they could be awesome.

 

Objectively, she's the most attractive woman I've ever been with on any level. And that's saying something, because I've always been lucky to be with really beautiful women. And we're like best friends and we click as well as I ever have with anyone.

 

So there's a huge upside if we could make it work, but also a huge downside if it doesn't. That's really what has me overthinking it, if anything.

Edited December 1, 2017 by KBarletta

[carhill]

Collector smell. I'd pass, presuming you're in the market for a normal male/female romantic relationship. Good on ya for having the conversation.

 

Focus on shared interests, no more intimacy. She's a friend. She set the boundary. Think of her as your best guy friend. That oughta do it. Date other women and yup share your adventures with her like you would with a guy friend. Healthy!

[Highndry]

I'm almost positive none of these things were the case. She probably wanted sex. A couple of our mutual female friends have pretty much come out and said she wants to sleep with me, but they always play it off as kind of a joke.

 

She may have wanted sex, but by the time we got to bed, it was like 3 a.m. and we both probably still had alcohol in our systems, and I didn't want it to seem like I was taking advantage of the situation.

 

Because of the friendship, I think I was/am proceeding with an overabundance of caution. Maybe that comes off as me not being interested?

 

She 100% wanted sex. She called you back multiple times because of that.

 

What do I want? I'd love to be in a relationship with her, TBH. I would probably not be interested in a FWB situation, but if that's all she wanted, I might consider it.

 

The fact is, I've always kind of looked at her as a bit "out of my league" if you will. She's about six years younger than me, but looks like she could be 15 years younger, and she's really gorgeous.

 

And you're waiting for what, exactly? Many men would kill for this opportunity.

 

That's fine, but then if you're the guy who makes a move on someone who isn't interested the same way, or who thinks of you as just a friend, then you've got a one-way ticket to Creeper Town. Right? And who wants that?

This is not you, why is this thought even in your brain? She's done everything to show interest aside from hit you upside the head with an iron skillet.

 

I'm not one who picks up subtle (or even obvious) hints very easily. I usually need to be smacked on the head before I know someone is interested. So then it's a fine line between being a "take the lead" guy and a guy who misreads signals and all of a sudden I'm the one crossing boundaries.

What part of "come sleep with me in my bed" are you missing?

 

I was attracted to her from day one, from the moment we met. But I was in a relationship at the time and she was just coming out of one, and so we just became friends.

 

So the thing that changed wasn't so much my feelings as my circumstances. Now, we're both single. But the friendship also is one of the best in my life and would be really hard to lose. She's not only like my best friend, but also is very close friends with many others in my circle.

 

The funny thing is, most of them already look at us like we're a couple because we're always together and anytime one of us shows up somewhere, the other one is there, too.

 

This is almost like a fairy tale it's so good. Make it happen with this gal already. If you don't, you will be eternally sorry, I promise you.

 

Ha. I already know she's busy tonight b/c we talk and text all the time. But I will be seeing her this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

 

I guess I wonder if anyone thinks its possible that this is something that friends (some friends) do without any romantic or sexual feelings, like they just like to cuddle and maybe feel lonely once in a while and maybe that's why she wanted me there that night.

 

I personally don't know anyone who does that, but I think it's a thing, especially for younger people. Maybe I'm wrong or just looking for reasons why she might NOT want to be with me.

 

Nonsense. Nothing about her actions said "cuddle."

 

Don't worry - it's been a week. I have slept since then, and well. ;-)

 

So I've talked to her and it seems she wants a sort of halfway relationship, not exactly an open relationship but one with low expectations because we're both very cautious and very busy and not sure exactly where this is going ... so I don't know. We obviously are still struggling to define what we want I guess.

 

I'm still kind of wrestling with whether I want a full-on relationship here, because we're such good friends and have a large interconnected network of friends and coworkers and even family members to an extent. It's a lot to consider, if things go bad. And they could. Or they could be awesome.

 

Objectively, she's the most attractive woman I've ever been with on any level. And that's saying something, because I've always been lucky to be with really beautiful women. And we're like best friends and we click as well as I ever have with anyone.

 

So there's a huge upside if we could make it work, but also a huge downside if it doesn't. That's really what has me overthinking it, if anything.

 

Stop trying to define and analyze things and just take this gal already. All this heavy talk could ruin it before it even happens. Nobody makes a strong commitment before taking a ride. You have to take the chance.

[carhill]

In fairness, this is a 'long-term friend' so she's long known where to place the OP on her mating ladder. It's not like they've just been introduced. Either he's relationship material or he's not. Sure, they may not have rolled in the sheets yet but she clearly stated she's 'busy' and wants something 'halfway'.

 

Tell me OP, has she ever kissed you passionately and told you she loved you, as a 'long-term friend'? Just checking....

[KBarletta]

Collector smell. I'd pass, presuming you're in the market for a normal male/female romantic relationship. Good on ya for having the conversation.

 

Focus on shared interests, no more intimacy. She's a friend. She set the boundary. Think of her as your best guy friend. That oughta do it. Date other women and yup share your adventures with her like you would with a guy friend. Healthy!

 

Yeah, I was thinking that too, and if I didn't know her so well already I'd probably assume she had a large roster of men on her "bench" whom she was ready to date if I don't work out. There's very little "normal" about this situation, I guess.

 

Like, she NEVER talks about other guys with me. I'm the only single guy she regularly spends time with, and I am the only non-family member who has even been allowed in her house since she broke up with her boyfriend. One of her family members told me this, unsolicited, when she wasn't around, like it was a really big deal.

 

I honestly don't know what I'm in the market for to be honest. I am not sure I want to date other women and talk to her about them b/c neither of us has done that before. When we were both in relationships, we didn't spend a lot of time alone together. Now that we do, and we're both single, we haven't really talked about other people.

 

I feel like this is kind of a "When Harry Met Sally" situation where one of us or the other is always going to be thinking about sex now that it's kind of out of the bag.

[KBarletta]

In fairness, this is a 'long-term friend' so she's long known where to place the OP on her mating ladder. It's not like they've just been introduced. Either he's relationship material or he's not. Sure, they may not have rolled in the sheets yet but she clearly stated she's 'busy' and wants something 'halfway'.

 

Tell me OP, has she ever kissed you passionately and told you she loved you, as a 'long-term friend'? Just checking....

 

She says she wants something "halfway" so there's no pressure, according to her. Sounds more like a FWB situation. We could be "two best friends who sleep together" is how she described it.

 

She tells me she loves me all the time. And I pay close attention to how she interacts with others and this is not something she tosses around a lot with friends. We've kissed a few times, but most of those came when we were in bed together the other day. LOL.

[carhill]

Alternatively, if you're looking for something casual, step it up. Each of us is different. I'm not a casual sex guy so form opinions from that perspective. Your viewpoint likely differs. I figured if you were a casual sex guy you'd have gone to town with her with that bed invitation and this whole thread wouldn't exist. Yet it does and you didn't. Work that.

[Highndry]

She says she wants something "halfway" so there's no pressure, according to her. Sounds more like a FWB situation. We could be "two best friends who sleep together" is how she described it.

 

She tells me she loves me all the time. And I pay close attention to how she interacts with others and this is not something she tosses around a lot with friends. We've kissed a few times, but most of those came when we were in bed together the other day. LOL.

 

She trusts you and feels safe. This is how great relationships start. It's not going to be friends with benefits thing for long, she's going to be full on in love with you. I am in my 40's now, and I have never slept with a woman who didn't want more than that after the fact. Not even a single time. It's why I never liked to do the FWB thing, because it meant I was going to have to hurt a woman if I wasn't into her for the long term.

[KBarletta]

Alternatively, if you're looking for something casual, step it up. Each of us is different. I'm not a casual sex guy so form opinions from that perspective. Your viewpoint likely differs. I figured if you were a casual sex guy you'd have gone to town with her with that bed invitation and this whole thread wouldn't exist. Yet it does and you didn't. Work that.

 

I'm definitely not a casual sex guy either. But to me that applies to two people who don't really know each other well. We do. So, even if we defined the relationship as "casual" it wouldn't really be so because we're already really close.

[carhill]

IMO don't give up on what you do want. If you want to do the 'best friends who have sex once in awhile thing', cool, do that, if that's what you want. If, however, you want her for a mate, someone to roll around in a wheelchair in your old age, don't believe you can back your way into that by agreeing to whatever terms she lays out. If her words of I love you and her kisses are real, she'll respect and validate what you want too. If other, see my prior posting about collector. I've had vast experience with those and they rarely work out well. However, I do have an experiment coming up so I'll try out some of the advice I've given you and see how it works out on a personal basis. Good luck!

[carhill]

I'm definitely not a casual sex guy either. But to me that applies to two people who don't really know each other well. We do. So, even if we defined the relationship as "casual" it wouldn't really be so because we're already really close.

 

Sorry, we crossed. FWB is a form of casual sex between people who can or do know each other well. Hence 'friends with benefits'. Casual sex otherwise is ONS or NSA with otherwise strangers one doesn't know in any demonstrable way. As my exW used to put it, having done it, sport-fcking. It's definitely one path and plenty of folks do it.

 

I'll leave it to our very wise members to carry you from here. I've probably already over-shared.

[KBarletta]

She trusts you and feels safe. This is how great relationships start. It's not going to be friends with benefits thing for long, she's going to be full on in love with you. I am in my 40's now, and I have never slept with a woman who didn't want more than that after the fact. Not even a single time. It's why I never liked to do the FWB thing, because it meant I was going to have to hurt a woman if I wasn't into her for the long term.

 

Yeah. You're probably right. Only once in my life did I go to bed with a woman where it didn't lead to a long-term relationship, and that felt very foreign to me. So if we were to do this, I'd be thinking of it as something that would last, or at least I would hope that it would.

 

However, I also have never gone to be with a friend that I cared about as deeply as I care about her. I love her deeply, maybe even more than some of my exes who I was with romantically for years. My feelings for this one feel stronger somehow, partly because we've been so vulnerable with each other and we trust each other to the bone.

[KBarletta]

Sorry - meant to make this a new thread instead of a post in this one. - KTB

[KBarletta]

Hi all,

 

I've been debating in my own head about whether to post this or not - but I'm going to do it, as much to get my thoughts out there as anything else, and I do value everyone's opinions, so please be brutally honest. This might be long, so I apologize in advance.

 

For the past six months or so, I've been spending a ton of time with one of my best friends of the opposite sex and we've gotten really close, spending nights at each other's houses (in the same bed), fooling around but stopping short of actual sex, partly because I think we're both a little afraid of crossing that boundary. We're best friends, though, and (*until recently) talked almost every day and hung out several times a week.

 

We are both single. We exchange "I love yous" and are assumed to be a couple by a number of mutual friends, even though we're only kind of a couple. I can feel myself falling in love with her and have been wondering how or whether to tell her. She seems to really love and care about me - most of the time.

 

Also, during this period of time, on occasion she would ignore texts or phone calls, and occasionally (like maybe three or four times) when we'd make plans she'd flake and either not show up or cancel at the last minute with no explanation. This always hurt me terribly. After a couple instances of this, I told her it made me feel used and like a back-burner option and the behavior pretty much stopped ... for a while. We became closer than ever, and things were great.

 

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. I ask what she's doing for new year's eve. She says she has to work until the early evening and then doesn't have anything to do because so many of her other friends are married with young kids. She suggests that "we" throw a party at my place. I agree and we set a time and start inviting people.

 

Fast forward another few weeks, to midnight on New Year's eve, me standing there in my house with my friends (and some of her friends too) wondering where the hell she is ... because she never showed up. She was supposed to be done working at 8 and then come to my place. By around 9:30 I started to get worried that something happened so I left her a message. I never heard another word. I did figure out eventually that she was OK because I saw her posting happy new year stuff on social media to her other friends.

 

So at 12:01, I was feeling so sad and let down that she blew me off that I unfriended her on social media. I admit it was a pretty hasty and stupid move to make but I felt like I couldn't endure another round of her flaky behavior that would make me feel like she didn't care about me.

 

I didn't hear a word from her for four days, even though - again - she continued to be active on social media. So obviously she's capable of communicating and is choosing not to. Then, four days after the fact, I finally get a "happy new year" text from her.

 

It's been 24 hours and so far I have ignored it. Since then, she's tagged me in a couple social media posts involving upcoming events (even though I've unfriended and unfollowed, I haven't "blocked" her so she can still see and tag me.) And she still can call and text me, obviously.

 

I'm just unsure how to proceed I guess. Do I go full-on NC (which to me seems extreme under the circumstances), do I tell her (again) how much she hurts me when she blows me off without a word? Do I just continue to ignore and see what happens?

 

(As an aside: Some friends who have experience with psychological issues have suggested she has an avoidant-attachment personality - meaning that she has difficulty and fear in developing close emotional attachments and places and extremely high value on her own independence and lack of need for close intimate relationships.)

 

How would y'all approach this situation? This is a woman I love with all my heart (so much that it hurts me to even think about going 24 hours without responding to a simple text) but I can't keep putting myself in a position to be put on the back burner.

 

Thoughts??

 

Thanks, KTB.

[smackie9]

I would just be social media friends and spend your time on someone else who is more reliable/stable.

Edited January 5, 2018 by smackie9

[KBarletta]

I would just be social media friends and spend your time on someone else who is more reliable/stable.

 

Well, social media is where I kind of cut her off, because seeing her posts about things after she would blow me off would trigger anxiety and sadness. So to protect my own well being, I cut that off.

 

Real life is harder, because I love her, and we have a bunch of mutual friends and even know each others' families. And it's not as if she's betrayed me or lied to me or something extreme. She's just inconsiderate and kind of self-centered. But not in a way that makes her unlovable. It just makes it painful to be in a relationship with her. But I care about her deeply. It's a difficult thing to consider.