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This is so hard.

 

I know it feels hard, but in time you will realize that it is the best thing that could have ever happened to you. He has given you a gift. He has given you your freedom from this dysfunctional relationship. Be grateful.

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The problem that many OWS have is ego.

 

"I am better in every way than his loser of a gf/wife/partner and he is bound to choose me if I stick around long enough."

 

Here his gf is an alcoholic, their relationship is "toxic", yet at every opportunity he gets, he goes back to her.

 

No matter what YOU or the world thinks of her, she is "the one" as far as he is concerned.

You are #2 and you will stay #2.

You do not understand it as you are the nice one, the stable and steady one, the one that has his back, the one that will not let him down, the one that will "save" him.

But he doesn't need saving.

 

Truth is that many people are not actually happy in "normal" relationships, they are a lot happier in hellholes of relationships that have more ups and downs than a roller coaster, that are full of drama and chaos, that are full of excitement and depression in equal measure, that they never know from one minute to the next whether it is on or off.

 

Yes you thought those 2 months were the best relationship you have ever been in, but maybe he was bored stiff and that is why he couldn't wait to get back to her.

 

Many men like this are quite happy to have two women and most will say almost anything to keep it going. YOU have shown you are OK with being on the side, so why would he ever need to promote you?

He has his main woman, and you are fitting very nicely into the OW spot. He needs to keep you on your toes and he needs to keep reminding you that you are not all that, and by him going MIA sometimes it tends to focus your attention. By the time he reappears you are so desperate you will forgive anything, even a trip away with his gf in February...

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CrushingHope
The problem that many OWS have is ego.

 

"I am better in every way than his loser of a gf/wife/partner and he is bound to choose me if I stick around long enough."

 

Here his gf is an alcoholic, their relationship is "toxic", yet at every opportunity he gets, he goes back to her.

 

No matter what YOU or the world thinks of her, she is "the one" as far as he is concerned.

You are #2 and you will stay #2.

You do not understand it as you are the nice one, the stable and steady one, the one that has his back, the one that will not let him down, the one that will "save" him.

But he doesn't need saving.

 

Truth is that many people are not actually happy in "normal" relationships, they are a lot happier in hellholes of relationships that have more ups and downs than a roller coaster, that are full of drama and chaos, that are full of excitement and depression in equal measure, that they never know from one minute to the next whether it is on or off.

 

Yes you thought those 2 months were the best relationship you have ever been in, but maybe he was bored stiff and that is why he couldn't wait to get back to her.

 

Many men like this are quite happy to have two women and most will say almost anything to keep it going. YOU have shown you are OK with being on the side, so why would he ever need to promote you?

He has his main woman, and you are fitting very nicely into the OW spot. He needs to keep you on your toes and he needs to keep reminding you that you are not all that, and by him going MIA sometimes it tends to focus your attention. By the time he reappears you are so desperate you will forgive anything, even a trip away with his gf in February...

 

 

Ouch. This one hurt a little, but you make some valid points.

 

Do you think he's doing all of this on purpose? Do you think he backs off on purpose to keep me on my toes? It seems so hurtful to do that to someone on purpose.

 

I question some of this because I know he and I did more exciting things together and he said she would never do any of the stuff we did together. Also, his teenaged son told me that his dad said he was going to marry me and told me (when he went back to her) that he and her always seem like old buddies but that he was "so in love with you" and it made no sense to him. He was really mad at his dad for going back to that woman after everything.

 

But I get it...he definitely must see her as the one. I asked him once if he ever wanted to get married again and he said "yes for sure" and I said "then why didnt you ever marry her?" he said "I've never wanted to marry her".

 

It just seems so strange.

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Ouch. This one hurt a little, but you make some valid points.

 

Do you think he's doing all of this on purpose? Do you think he backs off on purpose to keep me on my toes? It seems so hurtful to do that to someone on purpose.

Welcome to the world of affairs. MM do that ALL the time, the OW forum is full of push/pull, hot/cold, the silent treatment and him going MIA.

 

I question some of this because I know he and I did more exciting things together and he said she would never do any of the stuff we did together.

 

...and.

HE told you that, that doesn't mean it is true.

Also many MM use the OW to do all the sexual stuff their "wife" would never dream of doing, nor would he ask her to do so either

 

Also, his teenaged son told me that his dad said he was going to marry me and told me (when he went back to her) that he and her always seem like old buddies but that he was "so in love with you" and it made no sense to him. He was really mad at his dad for going back to that woman after everything.

I guess the teenage son likes you and hoped you would stick around, but he obviously got it wrong when is dad went back to the gf.

 

It just seems so strange.
In the world of single dating it is madness, in the world of affairs and extramarital sex it is often just par for the course.

Run for the hills is my advice.

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Do you think he's doing all of this on purpose? Do you think he backs off on purpose to keep me on my toes? It seems so hurtful to do that to someone on purpose.

 

Also, his teenaged son told me that his dad said he was going to marry me and told me (when he went back to her) that he and her always seem like old buddies but that he was "so in love with you" and it made no sense to him. He was really mad at his dad for going back to that woman after everything.

 

Read these boards. Married men do this all the time - the push-pull, he wants me-he wants me not... it keeps you off balance and allows him to have all the control in the relationship. So, when he turns his attention to you and you share some sex/exciting times, you feel great and you want more.

 

This other that you've written, is really awful. Do you think it's a good thing or right in any way for this man to involve his children in his relationships/affairs. Truly awful that his children are involved in this sordid affair and aware of their father's failings... it will change their relationship forever. You should NEVER be discussing your affair with his children.

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CrushingHope
Read these boards. Married men do this all the time - the push-pull, he wants me-he wants me not... it keeps you off balance and allows him to have all the control in the relationship. So, when he turns his attention to you and you share some sex/exciting times, you feel great and you want more.

 

This other that you've written, is really awful. Do you think it's a good thing or right in any way for this man to involve his children in his relationships/affairs. Truly awful that his children are involved in this sordid affair and aware of their father's failings... it will change their relationship forever. You should NEVER be discussing your affair with his children.

 

I must clarify that he was dating me exclusively at that time. He left her. We have never been together when they were together. Right now we are only talking, I haven't seen him even once. We have both said it's not something we want to do while he's with her.

 

I don't know if that changes anything about how people feel.

 

But his kids are not very happy with him. This woman didn't treat them well when they were younger and they can't stand her. So yes, they were rooting for me. He hasn't been a great dad to his kids since they were young...the whole family called him superdad because he was such a great dad. Things changes when he got with this woman. he started drinking and partying a lot....and has said he doesn't do that anymore but how could he not when they're all drinkers? i don't know what to believe. With me, he rarely drank. Maybe twice ever.

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CrushingHope

He messaged this morning saying "I need to get my head on straight". I said "you're staying with her?" "I gave you so many chances to tell me that things were improving". He said "they are exactly the same as they were! I have to take some time. I have been consumed with this for so long. When I talk to you, my heart gets in the way and tells me to jump ship, but my brain can't make sense of any of this and keeps going in circles. I don't want to think anymore".

 

He then said "I'm a mess. I'm no good to anyone like this". I said "that sounds like something someone says to soften the blow that they don't want to be with you". He said "not at all. I know how amazing we are together. I assure you that's not the case".

 

Last year when he broke up with me to go back to her he said "I'm such a mess. I don't know what I'm doing or what I want"... so it sounds like that to me. He said it's not like that. He said it's been a year without me and all he does is think about me. Well, if that were true, why would he need this space from me?

 

I do feel less interested in this now all of a sudden. This whole "my head is a mess" thing is completely making me see that's just saying something that allows him to back off and do what he wants yet leaves me hanging.

 

I didn't respond to his last text and I won't initiate anymore texts. That's all I can really say at this point...

Edited by CrushingHope
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I wish you strength.

 

keep posting. You will go through ups and downs... But, if you stay strong, keep some distance, and focus on you... It will get better.

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CrushingHope
I wish you strength.

 

keep posting. You will go through ups and downs... But, if you stay strong, keep some distance, and focus on you... It will get better.

 

Thank you. I miss his texts so much already. I know it wasn't very long but I got used to having someone text me first thing in the morning and then throughout the day and before bed. How can he not miss that too?

 

sigh. Feeling so sad right now. I don't want to say goodbye again.

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Thank you. I miss his texts so much already. I know it wasn't very long but I got used to having someone text me first thing in the morning and then throughout the day and before bed. How can he not miss that too?

 

sigh. Feeling so sad right now. I don't want to say goodbye again.

 

Sadly, he is probably busy with his life and busy with his girlfriend.

 

I would suggest that you find something to distract you. Pick up a new hobby, sign up for a class, call an old friend instead of texting with him. And post here, every morning and every night. Put your feelings on paper and people will wish you well...

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CrushingHope
Sadly, he is probably busy with his life and busy with his girlfriend.

 

I would suggest that you find something to distract you. Pick up a new hobby, sign up for a class, call an old friend instead of texting with him. And post here, every morning and every night. Put your feelings on paper and people will wish you well...

 

I don't see why he makes it sound so horrible there. Why does he tell me that his heart gets in the way with me ? Why say all these things that make it so hard to leave. Why does he want to leave me but not want me to let him go?

 

I tried to be strong today. I want to do what's right but this feels so wrong. I want to text but I know my best choice is not to. Unless he leaves her, I can't talk to him. It gives him no incentive to leave or change anything. I said "if you don't talk to me anymore i have to see that as a decision to not make any changes". He said "?????"

 

I'm afraid of coming here and writing how upset I am and having people judge me and not understand what i'm going through and think I should just get over this loser.

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eye of the storm
I don't see why he makes it sound so horrible there. To make you feel bad for him. To make you want to do more/be more in order to make it up to him. Why does he tell me that his heart gets in the way with me ? Because it makes you feel special. And to keep you hanging on. Why say all these things that make it so hard to leave. Because he doesn't want you to leave. Why would he. He has 2 chicks. He is living the dream. Why does he want to leave me but not want me to let him go? Because you are an ego boost for him.

 

...

 

I'm afraid of coming here and writing how upset I am and having people judge me and not understand what i'm going through and think I should just get over this loser. You are not alone. Many of us have issues walking away. And all of us understand it isn't easy. /QUOTE]

 

 

Crushing, You have the ability and the power to walk away. You know you should. You don't want to. Trust me, I understand. Think of it as self preservation, he is damaging you.

 

 

You keep asking why he does/says what he does. That isn't the question you should ask. You should be asking why you allow it. His whys aren't for you to worry about. They are for him.

 

 

I know why my MM stays. Knowing doesn't help. You think it does. It doesn't because, to you, the reasons won't make sense.

 

 

If missing the morning texts are hard, try getting up early and working out.

 

 

I noticed I had put my entire life on hold because of my A. Get busy living your life. Get busy.

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I don't see why he makes it sound so horrible there. Why does he tell me that his heart gets in the way with me ? Why say all these things that make it so hard to leave. Why does he want to leave me but not want me to let him go?

 

He does that to tug at your heartstrings. Poor guy, he has it so bad there but I'll be his rock and support him through this because I love him.

 

It is also a way to keep you guessing and hopeful that it may get so bad at some point, he'll leave and come to you. It's a common tactic used by cheaters. He doesn't want you to let him go because why wouldn't anyone want the best of both worlds? He gets to have a full relationship with this woman and he gets an additional ego/attention boost from you.

 

She's the priority, you have become the option. Don't do that to yourself. Stop waiting for him to choose you. You're spending your years damaging your self-esteem and worth.

 

I'm afraid of coming here and writing how upset I am and having people judge me and not understand what i'm going through and think I should just get over this loser.

 

I don't think anyone is judging you but trying to get you to realize your reality.

Edited by Zahara
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(((CrushingHope)))

Hugs to you, CrushingHope.

 

I cannot encourage you to use the "counter" strategy enough. Even if you cannot seem to keep yourself busy, you would do well to counter all of your thoughts - especially the positive ones - of this guy. Ask yourself a series of questions.

 

"I miss his texts so much."

Why? You have, in fact, already answered this one.

These crumbs of communication do something for you.

What can you do, in the moment that you miss them, to refocus your attention, to form a new habit? (OK, "habit" might not be the optimal word here...)

I began texting other people... maybe one in the morning and another in the evening... these were relationships with people I love (who love me back), and I had been neglecting those relationships while focusing on a MM who had much more attention (from multiple sources) than he needed...

 

You really should counter your positive thoughts of this man with evidence of his actions. Not what he says, but what he has been doing. Refocus - on YOU, on anything else, because it will help you break the habit of focusing on him. You might find that you're creating a healthier life for yourself that you prefer to waiting around for him....

 

And look. You intuit that he is dancing to this love-em-and-leave-em tune yet again... I once gave a guy a second chance, and he ghosted me. I am not saying some people don't deserve a second chance. I am saying, you have to know your limits. He wants to walk away from you after all that fancy talk and schmoozing you... please. If he walks, he keeps walking. If he comes back, he meets a closed door because you closed it. End of.

 

You'll grieve (you already are). And it's OK to do that! There are good and bad days and worse days... all normal. Of course, you can write about it here, because most of us have been there and understand. But if you want to break this cycle, you'll have to do the legwork...

 

Put your emotions on the back burner when you think of him or deal with him (I advocate that you no longer deal with him), use your logic. Actively be your guardian. You are guarding your sanity and emotional well-being.

Edited by Vivir
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It sounds to me like he's trying to make you feel sorry for him. He wants to keep you hanging on.

 

One question...are you a "fixer"? A lot of women are. We love someone and want to help, but in the end, the person we want to help has to do it for themselves.

 

 

sadly, there are some people who instinctively know how to take advantage of a fixer's kind and caring nature. That sounds like just what he's doing to you.

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Thank you. I miss his texts so much already. I know it wasn't very long but I got used to having someone text me first thing in the morning and then throughout the day and before bed. How can he not miss that too?

 

sigh. Feeling so sad right now. I don't want to say goodbye again.

 

He's training you like a pet, to look for the texts.

 

Poppy

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I don’t think anything I say will make any difference. You really need to move on from this... you really don’t know how short life is.

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It sounds to me like he's trying to make you feel sorry for him. He wants to keep you hanging on.

 

One question...are you a "fixer"? A lot of women are. We love someone and want to help, but in the end, the person we want to help has to do it for themselves.

 

 

sadly, there are some people who instinctively know how to take advantage of a fixer's kind and caring nature. That sounds like just what he's doing to you.

 

I am absolutely a fixer. I have thought about this many times during my on/off relationship with him.

 

I do get the feeling he wants me to feel sorry for him. He has gone from all that shmoozy talk to talking to me like a "friend" (from "good morning beautiful xo", to "hey you. hope you have a good day" and then just a check in later in the day to say hi. Nothing like things were. How we talk now is nothing that I would ever "wait" for if that's all it ever was.) I said "you're different". He said "no, just tired. It's been a very restless week". I didn't and haven't responded. I know things are starting to change in terms of what I'm willing to put up with. I do understand that I haven't been good with cutting things off with him cold turkey, but I am shifting. Something is slowly starting to change.

 

I had told him that his ghosting me on the weekend made it clear that he had made the decision to stay with her and not to make any changes. He said "???" . Playing dumb. Later he said "I have told her how I feel about her drinking. It's up to her now". He's hoping that he will be enough for her to stop drinking (not likely to happen) and I'm waiting to be enough for him to leave her (also not likely going to happen).

 

I care less this morning than I did yesterday and the day before etc. Like I said, something is shifting. I can feel that at least.

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I am absolutely a fixer. I have thought about this many times during my on/off relationship with him.

 

I do get the feeling he wants me to feel sorry for him. He has gone from all that shmoozy talk to talking to me like a "friend" (from "good morning beautiful xo", to "hey you. hope you have a good day" and then just a check in later in the day to say hi. Nothing like things were. How we talk now is nothing that I would ever "wait" for if that's all it ever was.) I said "you're different". He said "no, just tired. It's been a very restless week". I didn't and haven't responded. I know things are starting to change in terms of what I'm willing to put up with. I do understand that I haven't been good with cutting things off with him cold turkey, but I am shifting. Something is slowly starting to change.

 

I had told him that his ghosting me on the weekend made it clear that he had made the decision to stay with her and not to make any changes. He said "???" . Playing dumb. Later he said "I have told her how I feel about her drinking. It's up to her now". He's hoping that he will be enough for her to stop drinking (not likely to happen) and I'm waiting to be enough for him to leave her (also not likely going to happen).

 

I care less this morning than I did yesterday and the day before etc. Like I said, something is shifting. I can feel that at least.

 

When you share his words on here, I'm really struck by how self centered they are. It's as if he can't see beyond himself and realize how difficult this situation is for you.

 

It's hard being a fixer. I'm somewhat one myself. As much as I hate to admit it, part of that is hubris. I like thinking I can help someone, and on some level, it gives me just as much as it gives them.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, so long as you know whee to draw the line. When you start to lose yourself because it's all about them and their problems/needs, and you are willing no keep pushing yours to the side no matter how much it hurts, it's a problem.

 

A big part of it is having the wisdom to know when you have reached your limits and that you have nothing more to give. It sounds like you have reached that point. You have needs, feelings and thoughts too. Yours are just as important as his.

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When you share his words on here, I'm really struck by how self centered they are. It's as if he can't see beyond himself and realize how difficult this situation is for you.

 

It's hard being a fixer. I'm somewhat one myself. As much as I hate to admit it, part of that is hubris. I like thinking I can help someone, and on some level, it gives me just as much as it gives them.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, so long as you know whee to draw the line. When you start to lose yourself because it's all about them and their problems/needs, and you are willing no keep pushing yours to the side no matter how much it hurts, it's a problem.

 

A big part of it is having the wisdom to know when you have reached your limits and that you have nothing more to give. It sounds like you have reached that point. You have needs, feelings and thoughts too. Yours are just as important as his.

 

Yes, I agree...the desire to fix/help isn't completely selfless.

 

The thing that makes it so hard with him is that when we were together, he always did special things for me and made me feel amazing...coming to my school to drop lunch off for me when I'd forgotten it, taken me on surprise weekends away to a place I mentioned wanting to go, flowers for no reason...all that stuff. And we had so much fun together doing these adventures. And then it's a complete 180 where he is completely selfish. But if I'm looking at is "psychologically", the act of treating me that well is selfish as he's pulling me in with his grand gestures and over-the-top-edness.

 

I don't value myself enough and I know that's the big issue here. And it's what is keeping me involved with him. I wish someone could advise me on how to find more self worth. How does someone even DO that? I know it will take counselling which i will look into again when my new job starts and I have money again. It doesn't help that I am so bored and sitting here in this all day long....even when I try to keep myself occupied.

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I wish someone could advise me on how to find more self worth. How does someone even DO that? I know it will take counselling which i will look into again when my new job starts and I have money again. It doesn't help that I am so bored and sitting here in this all day long....even when I try to keep myself occupied.

 

Your first step to embracing and acknowledging your self-worth starts with blocking this man. It'll happen when you're ready to do it. You can't empower yourself if you keep feeding into a situation that keeps diminishing you.

 

You seek counselling. You work through your pain.

 

If you are so bored at home -- go to the library and pick up a book on self-development. Start reading and opening yourself up to hows, whys, etc. Sign yourself up on a few meetups in your area -- most activities are free, you get to meet like minded people as well as immerse yourself in positive environments. Find a cause you are passionate about and invest your time volunteering for the less fortunate. Start an exercise program for yourself and start moving. Go for long walks and breathe in the fresh air and embrace your surroundings. Learn how to meditate -- you'll find lots of resources online.

Edited by Zahara
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I don't value myself enough and I know that's the big issue here. And it's what is keeping me involved with him. I wish someone could advise me on how to find more self worth. How does someone even DO that? I know it will take counselling which i will look into again when my new job starts and I have money again. It doesn't help that I am so bored and sitting here in this all day long....even when I try to keep myself occupied.

 

You have a whole lot to offer, but it sounds like you've lost sight of that.

 

Think about it for a minute. What are you good points? I expect the list may be far longer than you think. What do you have to offer a relationship partner? What makes you special?

 

What are some of your accomplishments? What makes you happy? What are the little things that you love about life? What is the thing in your life that you are most proud of?

 

You've said you are a fixer, and that usually equates to having a huge heart and a lot to give. There are so many in need out there who would love to have you as a volunteer. Is there an area where you would love to lend a helping hand? If you are an animal lover ( I'm a "bird nerd" myself:laugh:) how about volunteering with an animal rescue group or shelter? Food pantries, children's tutoring programs, etc , etc,, etc., are often desperate for any kind of assistance, and they can also help you see how you have worth and value away from this guy. It can also get you around other people who have nothing to do with him.

 

You have so much to offer, but somewhere along the way, you lost sight of that. Don't let that be one more thing he takes away from you.

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I'm so upset right now. I'm shaking.

 

As I have mentioned, he's been pulling back over the last little while. I've questioned him about it and he usually makes a joke or and excuse as to why it's not true, but then continues the same behaviour.

 

Today I asked if his gf has told him she would quit drinking. He said "not in so many words". I said "so there has been a conversation and you're staying there. And you've been avoiding telling me".

 

And he said...

 

"the reality of the situation is the constant pressure from you is too much to handle. I have too much on plate as it is".

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How can he possibly turn this around as something that is my fault!?!?!?!?!

 

I said "i haven't been pressuring you to be with me but just to be honest with me. that's all".

 

No response. I said "i can't believe you just said that after all of this. I will stop messaging you". No response.

 

I am so upset.

 

***

 

He responded with "I'm sorry. I've tried to tell you that I'm not going to make a rash decision and that nothing about this situation is black and white. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just trying to express how I'm feeling.

 

This is the most "communication" about this that he has given me, but it's a bunch of f'n lies! It is very black and white. He wants to give her another chance and keep me waiting in the wings for when she inevitably doesn't change!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by CrushingHope
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I'm so upset right now. I'm shaking.

 

As I have mentioned, he's been pulling back over the last little while. I've questioned him about it and he usually makes a joke or and excuse as to why it's not true, but then continues the same behaviour.

 

Today I asked if his gf has told him she would quit drinking. He said "not in so many words". I said "so there has been a conversation and you're staying there. And you've been avoiding telling me".

 

And he said...

 

"the reality of the situation is the constant pressure from you is too much to handle. I have too much on plate as it is".

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How can he possibly turn this around as something that is my fault!?!?!?!?!

 

I said "i haven't been pressuring you to be with me but just to be honest with me. that's all".

 

No response. I said "i can't believe you just said that after all of this. I will stop messaging you". No response.

 

I am so upset.

 

***

 

He responded with "I'm sorry. I've tried to tell you that I'm not going to make a rash decision and that nothing about this situation is black and white. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just trying to express how I'm feeling.

 

This is the most "communication" about this that he has given me, but it's a bunch of f'n lies! It is very black and white. He wants to give her another chance and keep me waiting in the wings for when she inevitably doesn't change!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This is how it goes... and I know that you are upset, I know you are hurting.

 

This is why everyone said to not "date" him through this process. If he comes for you if/when he gets a divorce, great.

 

If not, most likely, you have not hurt yourself further by loving him and waiting for him.

 

Believe me I understand how hard it is to pull the plug, but it is what you have to do...

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I'm so upset right now. I'm shaking.

 

As I have mentioned, he's been pulling back over the last little while. I've questioned him about it and he usually makes a joke or and excuse as to why it's not true, but then continues the same behaviour.

 

Today I asked if his gf has told him she would quit drinking. He said "not in so many words". I said "so there has been a conversation and you're staying there. And you've been avoiding telling me".

 

And he said...

 

"the reality of the situation is the constant pressure from you is too much to handle. I have too much on plate as it is".

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How can he possibly turn this around as something that is my fault!?!?!?!?!

 

I said "i haven't been pressuring you to be with me but just to be honest with me. that's all".

 

No response. I said "i can't believe you just said that after all of this. I will stop messaging you". No response.

 

I am so upset.

 

***

 

He responded with "I'm sorry. I've tried to tell you that I'm not going to make a rash decision and that nothing about this situation is black and white. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just trying to express how I'm feeling.

 

This is the most "communication" about this that he has given me, but it's a bunch of f'n lies! It is very black and white. He wants to give her another chance and keep me waiting in the wings for when she inevitably doesn't change!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm sorry that you are hurt.

 

But, he's just being honest with you. It's the plain and simple truth. He does not plan to leave his girlfriend and he does not want you to pressure him to do so. This may have been the first time that he said it out loud, but his actions have been telling you this for a while... you just haven't been able to really hear it.

 

When people are honest and show you who they truly are, you would be wise to believe them. It's time for you to move on...

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