From GF to OW

[LivingWaterPlease]

Yes, that's what he called this woman too. And he was so angry about this woman. And the way he's talked about his ex-wife and his ex-family in law...was terrible, terrible. His ex-parents in law allowed him to live in an apartment they owned (the one downstairs from me) for cheap rent when he had decided to leave this woman (one of the many times) and he ended up not paying rent for 6 months and then tried to sue them when they asked him to move out.

 

I know, I'm not making him sound any better...

 

Oh, my! Did he tell you all of that?

[BaileyB]

 

What would I say to him if I send a message to end it? I feel like I would be more likely to tell him to not contact me unless he's left her than saying never contact me again.

 

Well, you could send him a message that says, "I'm sorry, but I don't think this will work out. I will not be in a relationship with someone who is in a relationship with another woman. I wish you all the best."

 

But, you want to leave your options open... If you chose to stay on this merry-go-round, that is your decision. I think it will get awfully dizzy and be awfully painful for you, waiting around and watching him bounce back and forth between you. But, if that's what you want to do...

 

I think you would get more love and loyalty if you get a dog!

[CrushingHope]

No, you are definitely not.

 

Do you have a history of attracting abusive/unhealthy men and relationships?

 

My very first long-term boyfriend was wishy-washy when it came to what he wanted with us. He would definitely handle his uncertainties poorly but ending things without telling me etc. And would always come back and I would always take him back. Until finally I realized that I had the power to end it and if I didn't, it would go on forever. And I did end it. And then I had a very loving good boyfriend for many years. Things fizzled with us eventually. And I walked away from that. Since him, I have dated a string of some very nice guys, and others who didn't know what they wanted.

 

So...maybe I do have a history of making the wrong choices when it comes to men, but certainly none have had this kind of effect on me.

 

Clearly, I don't value myself enough. I already know that. I just don't know how to fix it.

[CrushingHope]

Oh, my! Did he tell you all of that?

 

He told me some but I witnessed the rest since he was living downstairs. And then when he got kicked out (he was actually mad because it meant he had to move back in with this woman which he wasn't ready for), their daughter (his ex wife) moved in downstairs and she would tell me what was going on. It was honestly a mess. He lost the case and then appealed it like 4 times before trying to bring it to Provincial Court which he then lost again and tried to appeal AGAIN but was going to cost him 10K so he had no choice. Meanwhile, his 17 year old son lived with him downstairs and was basically ignored while he spent his time at her house. None of it makes any sense at all. Such a mess.

 

When I say the details like this, it makes me feel even more pathetic.

[CrushingHope]

Well, you could send him a message that says, "I'm sorry, but I don't think this will work out. I will not be in a relationship with someone who is in a relationship with another woman. I wish you all the best."

 

But, you want to leave your options open... If you chose to stay on this merry-go-round, that is your decision. I think it will get awfully dizzy and be awfully painful for you, waiting around and watching him bounce back and forth between you. But, if that's what you want to do...

 

I think you would get more love and loyalty if you get a dog!

 

LOL I would love to get a dog. I do have a lovely cat who gives me all kinds of affection.

 

Yes, I guess I'm guilty of wanting to keep the options open. But I also know that I will feel worse when/if I get a text from him that says "I can't do this anymore. The guilt is killing me" or whatever bs he will spew. So I know I need to be the one to do it.

[BaileyB]

My very first long-term boyfriend was wishy-washy when it came to what he wanted with us. He would definitely handle his uncertainties poorly but ending things without telling me etc. And would always come back and I would always take him back. Until finally I realized that I had the power to end it and if I didn't, it would go on forever. And I did end it. And then I had a very loving good boyfriend for many years. Things fizzled with us eventually. And I walked away from that. Since him, I have dated a string of some very nice guys, and others who didn't know what they wanted.

 

So...maybe I do have a history of making the wrong choices when it comes to men, but certainly none have had this kind of effect on me.

 

Clearly, I don't value myself enough. I already know that. I just don't know how to fix it.

 

Have you ever seen a counsellor to examine your patterns in relationships and develop your self esteem?

[LivingWaterPlease]

CrushingHope, how did you learn he didn't for six months pay the cheap rent his former in-laws had set, then sued them?

 

When you learned it, did it not sicken you and cause you to think of him as unattractive?

 

I'm trying to understand how you dealt with this information in your own mind in order to continue to be attracted to him.

[BaileyB]

I also know that I will feel worse when/if I get a text from him that says "I can't do this anymore. The guilt is killing me" or whatever bs he will spew. So I know I need to be the one to do it.

 

It may hurt, but it would be the best thing that could ever happen to you. It would set you free!

 

I don't expect that this man will ever do that... He seems to like to keep his options open too!

[wmacbride]

Madam, he is treating you terribly because you permit him to do it.

 

He sounds like he is an abused man, but that doesn't mean he gets to take that out on you by treating you badly.

 

My advice to you is to tell him that until he gets himself into some therapy to find out why he stays with her, then he is not welcome in your life. It's sad to say, but like a drowning man, he may well pull others down with him. Don't let yourself be one of them.

 

Along with this, my guess is that even if he did start a full time relationship with you, he would probably cheat on you as well. this is because people don't cheat because of what others do, they cheat because something in them allows them to do it. Juts like you didn't somehow seduce him into the affair ( he chose to get into one) she isn't forcing him to cheat either. Until he realizes that, and admits he has 100 percent control over his choices, he will not be long term relationship material. If he did end his marriage and move on with you, he may well just end up stepping out on you if and when he felt justified in doing so, and then you'll be the one painted in such a bad light, whether you deserve it or not.

 

Yes, you may love him,but love is not always enough. Encourage him to seek therapy so he can better understand himself and why he makes the choice she does. If he can do that, you might stand a chance. If not? Well, your relationship may well stand about as much chance of lasting, in a happy state, as i do of winning the next Miss Universe contest.

[CrushingHope]

Have you ever seen a counsellor to examine your patterns in relationships and develop your self esteem?

 

I have been to counselling but it has never really gotten me anywhere. I tend to only see them when I'm in immediate distress and not when i'm "okay". So I don't get to the root of the issue.

[BaileyB]

I have been to counselling but it has never really gotten me anywhere. I tend to only see them when I'm in immediate distress and not when i'm "okay". So I don't get to the root of the issue.

 

Well, there is something productive you can do... Go back to counselling. Deal with these issues. Because darling, you've got issues if you allow this kind of treatment from a deadbeat man into your life.

[CrushingHope]

CrushingHope, how did you learn he didn't for six months pay the cheap rent his former in-laws had set, then sued them?

 

When you learned it, did it not sicken you and cause you to think of him as unattractive?

 

I'm trying to understand how you dealt with this information in your own mind in order to continue to be attracted to him.

 

I knew he didn't pay rent because he told me and his ex-wife told me. I found many of the things he did and choices he made to be unattractive but my memories with him had already occurred and it was/is those things that I tend to focus on because they were amazing. I was alone in a small town with no friends except for a few I had made at school. I was lonely and he whirled into my life and was exciting and interesting, took me all over to do fun things together...things that only small towns can offer...fairs, swimming in the local holes, fishing etc and just made me feel amazing in a way that I hadn't in so long.

 

And that feeling seemed to overpower all of the negatives that I was seeing. And because of the things I was hearing about the woman he was with, it was easy for me to see him as the victim or making bad choices because he was in a miserable situation.

 

I wanted to see the best in him...and we tend to see what we want to see. I know I'm wrong.

[CrushingHope]

It may hurt, but it would be the best thing that could ever happen to you. It would set you free!

 

I don't expect that this man will ever do that... He seems to like to keep his options open too!

 

Yes. He definitely does. That is why he never answers any questions I ask about her. Ever. Or now even about what will happen or what is happening. He says just enough to pull me in but not enough so that I have any expectations about what will happen.

 

I feel like a fool and I feel so angry. My anger so quickly turns to sadness which is so much harder to act on.

[CrushingHope]

Well, there is something productive you can do... Go back to counselling. Deal with these issues. Because darling, you've got issues if you allow this kind of treatment from a deadbeat man into your life.

 

Yes I do. I know I am not emotionally healthy. It's so crazy because I am super confident in every other area of my life. People are shocked when they hear I'm involved in something like this. I'm not a weak person typically. But when it comes to matters of the heart, I very much seem to be.

 

I know I have severe abandonment issues. I just want to be the one someone chooses.

[BaileyB]

I knew he didn't pay rent because he told me and his ex-wife told me. I found many of the things he did and choices he made to be unattractive but my memories with him had already occurred and it was/is those things that I tend to focus on because they were amazing. I was alone in a small town with no friends except for a few I had made at school. I was lonely and he whirled into my life and was exciting and interesting, took me all over to do fun things together...things that only small towns can offer...fairs, swimming in the local holes, fishing etc and just made me feel amazing in a way that I hadn't in so long.

 

And that feeling seemed to overpower all of the negatives that I was seeing. And because of the things I was hearing about the woman he was with, it was easy for me to see him as the victim or making bad choices because he was in a miserable situation.

 

I wanted to see the best in him...and we tend to see what we want to see. I know I'm wrong.

 

Textbook for any affair. Lonely, emotionally needy woman ignores all red flags and believes only what she wants to believe because, his very presence in her life makes her feel special, loved, and less lonely...

 

One of the more interesting things that I have read on this board recently (and I can link or quote because I don't remember where it was written)... Is that married men have it so much easier than other men. All they have to do is show up and the women will do the rest... Make up the story, fabricate a fairy-tale, ignore all the warning signs and bad behavior because they want to believe the best, they want to see and feel what they want to see and feel... It's very true. This guy has just sent you a few flowers, said some nice words, and you have taken care of all the rest... He behaves badly toward this other women, her family, his son... Doesn't matter, because you will just write your own story...

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way because you really do seem like a lovely woman.

[CrushingHope]

Textbook for any affair. Lonely, emotionally needy woman ignores all red flags and believes only what she wants to believe because, his very presence in her life makes her feel special, loved, and less lonely...

 

One of the more interesting things that I have read on this board recently (and I can link or quote because I don't remember where it was written)... Is that married men have it so much easier than other men. All they have to do is show up and the women will do the rest... Make up the story, fabricate a fairy-tale, ignore all the warning signs and bad behavior because they want to believe the best, they want to see and feel what they want to see and feel... It's very true. This guy has just sent you a few flowers, said some nice words, and you have taken care of all the rest... He behaves badly toward this other women, her family, his son... Doesn't matter, because you will just write your own story...

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way because you really do seem like a lovely woman.

 

It's true. I'm letting him off the hook every time. And reading into all his texts and trying to figure everything out. I spend my days analyzing everything he says to me and if he does or does not use emojis in these texts. It's sickening the amount of time I waste on this.

 

I have recently finished a work contract with the gov't in my city and am waiting for a new one to begin, which is taking much longer than expected. So I'm sitting here in yet another new-ish city (i lived here 20 years ago but I don't have many friends here), lonely and bored, and feeling significantly more full when he spends time talking to me and saying things I want to hear.

 

It really is unhealthy. Last October when he went back to her, I was devastated and broken and fell into a terrible depression. The only time it started to lift was this September when I moved out of that town. And now I'm afraid that it will happen all over again if he walks away. I know I have to be the one to end it or that could very well happen. I know I will still be sad, but hopefully not as bad if I take the control back at least a little.

 

I have to stop feeling like he is the prize and something to win. I have to look at leaving as winning. I have to find the strength to believe I will find love somewhere else...

[FMW]

It's been said repeatedly in this forum that you have to reach your rock bottom in order to move on. Only you will know when that is. I think I'm reaching mine, the pain is outweighing any happiness MM brings me now. I've gained weight from compulsive eating from the stress and depression.

I can't focus at work and in general because of obsessive thoughts about him. I've finally looked at myself in the mirror and said "Enough!". I don't want my life to be like this anymore.

 

Working on myself through meditation and analyzing myself (instead of analyzing him) is clearing the fog for me. Reading the posts here by those who have been through it has been amazingly helpful for me. Tough love no b*** S*** truths. Read them and take them to heart.

 

I will always love my MM and I want him to be happy. It's up to him if he's going to do the hard work to find that with his BW or someone else. Most importantly, I want happiness for myself and I'm not going to get it with him, it's clear now. You have to reach the same conclusion for yourself.

[BaileyB]

I'm sitting here in yet another new-ish city, lonely and bored, and feeling significantly more full when he spends time talking to me and saying things I want to hear.

 

It really is unhealthy. Last October when he went back to her, I was devastated and broken and fell into a terrible depression. And now I'm afraid that it will happen all over again if he walks away.

 

Of course you feel that way. I would feel the same in that situation, desperately lonely and very sad. Perhaps, a good step would be to try and make some new friends. Volunteer, join a social group, or my goodness... go on a date. Even getting out to volunteer would help you to make new social connections and ease your lonliness and depression.

 

I would also really suggest looking for a good counsellor, when you have the opportunity. Perhaps, even talking to your doctor to get a referral and/or some medication (if needed).

 

I wish you well, my dear. Tomorrow is another day, just try to do one thing that will bring you joy. The rest will follow. Best wishes.

[CrushingHope]

It's been said repeatedly in this forum that you have to reach your rock bottom in order to move on. Only you will know when that is. I think I'm reaching mine, the pain is outweighing any happiness MM brings me now. I've gained weight from compulsive eating from the stress and depression.

I can't focus at work and in general because of obsessive thoughts about him. I've finally looked at myself in the mirror and said "Enough!". I don't want my life to be like this anymore.

 

Working on myself through meditation and analyzing myself (instead of analyzing him) is clearing the fog for me. Reading the posts here by those who have been through it has been amazingly helpful for me. Tough love no b*** S*** truths. Read them and take them to heart.

 

I will always love my MM and I want him to be happy. It's up to him if he's going to do the hard work to find that with his BW or someone else. Most importantly, I want happiness for myself and I'm not going to get it with him, it's clear now. You have to reach the same conclusion for yourself.

 

I feel like I'm getting closer. I have so many thoughts throughout the day about what it is I want to say to him and how I will say it. I never had that before. The longer we go texting and chatting every day and the more he pulls back and then comes on strong, the more it angers me and makes me want to walk away. The more I think about him backing off for good for whatever reason, guilt or otherwise, the more I want to do it "first" to try to help myself at least a little with the impending pain of it all.

 

I just have to get to the very edge of this feeling...close enough so that I can finally make the jump...

[burnt]

I have been to counselling but it has never really gotten me anywhere. I tend to only see them when I'm in immediate distress and not when i'm "okay". So I don't get to the root of the issue.

 

Apart from the affair issue you are dealing with,

your mindset about counseling alone suggests that you need to see a counselor to understand what counseling is all about.

 

Seeing a counselor is not like taking an aspirin pill to get rid of a temporary headache. Proper counseling takes a long time to (1) understand the underlying psychological dysfunctional thoughts and habits you have developed over a long period of time and (2) develop long term goals and strategies to tackle those dysfunctional thoughts/habits.

 

The fact that you are in an affair alone suggests that you MUST see a counselor for a pretty long time to (1) understand why you were attracted to such a low moral pitiful man and (2) how you can detach yourself from him and (3) how you can prevent yourself from repeating the same mistake so that you don't fall for men like these in the future.

 

Please see a counselor and make a long term plan to continue seeing one. Therapy takes time to work--there is no overnight cure for the kind of mess you got yourself into.

 

You need a therapist's help.

[CrushingHope]

Of course you feel that way. I would feel the same in that situation, desperately lonely and very sad. Perhaps, a good step would be to try and make some new friends. Volunteer, join a social group, or my goodness... go on a date. Even getting out to volunteer would help you to make new social connections and ease your lonliness and depression.

 

I would also really suggest looking for a good counsellor, when you have the opportunity. Perhaps, even talking to your doctor to get a referral and/or some medication (if needed).

 

I wish you well, my dear. Tomorrow is another day, just try to do one thing that will bring you joy. The rest will follow. Best wishes.

 

Thank you Bailey. Your words tonight have helped me immensely to feel less alone. Once I start working again I will seek the counselling. I know it's necessary.

 

I did actually go on a date about a month before my ex came back into my life. The date was fine, but not anyone that I was really interested in. He even kissed me but it felt so wrong and uncomfortable. I cried the whole uber ride home thinking of my ex and just wishing it was him I had spent the evening with. A year later and I was still pining for him. It made me think there was something more to that than just being lonely.

 

Anyway...i've blabbed enough. Thank you so very much for your kind and helpful words. I promise I will reread these posts many times and hope that the valuable advice soaks in...

[LivingWaterPlease]

I knew he didn't pay rent because he told me and his ex-wife told me. I found many of the things he did and choices he made to be unattractive but my memories with him had already occurred and it was/is those things that I tend to focus on because they were amazing. I was alone in a small town with no friends except for a few I had made at school. I was lonely and he whirled into my life and was exciting and interesting, took me all over to do fun things together...things that only small towns can offer...fairs, swimming in the local holes, fishing etc and just made me feel amazing in a way that I hadn't in so long.

 

And that feeling seemed to overpower all of the negatives that I was seeing. And because of the things I was hearing about the woman he was with, it was easy for me to see him as the victim or making bad choices because he was in a miserable situation.

 

I wanted to see the best in him...and we tend to see what we want to see. I know I'm wrong.

 

Gently, CrushingHope, some do and some don't only see what they want to see.

 

It seems to me that you're saying that you're with someone who abuses others, but that you're able to put up a wall (close off feelings of compassion for the suffering of others) between his treatment of you and his treatment of others in order to have a good time with him.

 

In your place I would want to see a counselor to find out why I was able to enjoy spending time with someone whom I knew was hurting others. And why I could put a wall up so as not to feel compassion for those he was hurting.

 

I believe if you can learn to face your own feelings and emotions and empathize with the feelings and emotions of others, you may be able to learn to treat yourself better. It seems to me you have learned ways of dealing with yourself and others that are now hurting you and that you are wanting to learn to do better. That's a wonderful goal!

Edited January 5, 2018 by LivingWaterPlease

[CrushingHope]

Gently, CrushingHope, some do and some don't only see what they want to see.

 

It seems to me that you're saying that you're with someone who abuses others, but that you're able to put up a wall (close off feelings of compassion for the suffering of others) between his treatment of you and his treatment of others in order to have a good time with him.

 

In your place I would want to see a counselor to find out why I was able to enjoy spending time with someone whom I knew was hurting others. And why I could put a wall up so as not to feel compassion for those he was hurting.

 

I believe if you can learn to face your own feelings and emotions and empathize with the feelings and emotions of others, you may be able to learn to treat yourself better. It seems to me you have learned ways of dealing with yourself and others that are now hurting you and that you are wanting to learn to do better. That's a wonderful goal!

 

I do believe you're right on some level..the fact that for some reason I am able to put up this wall. But I am actually a very compassionate and empathetic person. I went back to school to be a Nurse because of my ability (normally) to be compassionate and empathetic. So it's hurts a little for someone to say that I am not. However, I will consider these thoughts and ideas and try to understand why I'm allowing myself to be any part of his life.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I knew he didn't pay rent because he told me and his ex-wife told me. I found many of the things he did and choices he made to be unattractive but my memories with him had already occurred and it was/is those things that I tend to focus on because they were amazing. I was alone in a small town with no friends except for a few I had made at school. I was lonely and he whirled into my life and was exciting and interesting, took me all over to do fun things together...things that only small towns can offer...fairs, swimming in the local holes, fishing etc and just made me feel amazing in a way that I hadn't in so long.

 

And that feeling seemed to overpower all of the negatives that I was seeing. And because of the things I was hearing about the woman he was with, it was easy for me to see him as the victim or making bad choices because he was in a miserable situation.

 

I wanted to see the best in him...and we tend to see what we want to see. I know I'm wrong.

 

 

I do believe you're right on some level..the fact that for some reason I am able to put up this wall. But I am actually a very compassionate and empathetic person. I went back to school to be a Nurse because of my ability (normally) to be compassionate and empathetic. So it's hurts a little for someone to say that I am not. However, I will consider these thoughts and ideas and try to understand why I'm allowing myself to be any part of his life.

 

In the bolded text of your top quote it seemed to me you were saying that you were able to not see what you didn't want to see about what he was doing to others because you wanted to enjoy good times with him. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were trying to say about how you felt and what you did with those feelings when you learned he had hurt his in laws so drastically?

 

Could it be that you're a very compassionate person but that your needs are so intense that somehow a switch, so to speak, flips in you without you even realizing it and you are blinded to your compassion (compassion you normally would have felt for this guy's inlaws whom he had abused in such an extreme way)?

 

These are things a counselor will explore with you and for all of us when we go into counseling we are going to experience some pain, but it will be worth it for you because in the long run you will end up saving yourself from a lot of pain in future relationships.

 

Many times there are red flags with guys you (or anyone else) may date. Those red flags often include that he's mistreating someone else in some way. In many people this causes them to lose attraction for the person who's hurting others, so then it's easy to detach from them, there's no other choice because they are repulsed and no longer desire the person whom they now realize is an abuser. So, in feeling empathy for those who are being abused and acting on it, a side effect is that you end up protecting yourself from the abuser by no longer making yourself available to him. Because anytime you are dating someone who is hurting someone else, you can be sure that he'll think nothing of mistreating you, too.

 

You seem to be a very sweet and sensitive young lady. I'm so sorry for all you've gone through but truly believe this could be such a time of growth for you in getting with a counselor and taking some time to learn what's really important to you for your present and future both!

Edited January 5, 2018 by LivingWaterPlease

[WhatWait]

I really related to this story and your feelings remind me of my own. Think my similar sordid sad story is in my history. I cut the guy off, but it wasn’t easy.

 

One thing that helped me get away was keeping the focus on the fact that I did not feel like myself while engaging in the subterfuge and underhandedness necessary in these situations. It did not feel right for me. That was easier to figure out than how he felt.

 

Anyway, I really sympathize. These situations are hard to deal with, and you do have to be strong.