No Contact or Friends? 27F broke up with 30M

[CantTakeMySmile]

Please, please, please never ever send that letter !!!

[Blanco]

Luke, I want to reiterate how bad of an idea it is to send anything resembling that letter to your ex. I copied and pasted into a word counter. It exceeded 4,400 words. You don't send that many words to someone unless you're sending in the first chapter of your book to a publisher. I have a college degree and most of my papers didn't extend as long as your letter!

 

You know this woman better than us, obviously, but please don't let that fool you into thinking that others here don't have a better idea of what's going on and how this is going to play out than you do. And that's normal. It's common to be blind to facts when we're in the thick of something like this.

 

Just know that this letter will not be received positively. You could have nine pages of the most genuine, beautifully penned words ever recorded and it would not matter to this woman right now. I know you view this as your Hail Mary pass, but trust those here who are advising you not to send this.

[ConfusedLuke]

Luke, I want to reiterate how bad of an idea it is to send anything resembling that letter to your ex. I copied and pasted into a word counter. It exceeded 4,400 words. You don't send that many words to someone unless you're sending in the first chapter of your book to a publisher. I have a college degree and most of my papers didn't extend as long as your letter!

 

You know this woman better than us, obviously, but please don't let that fool you into thinking that others here don't have a better idea of what's going on and how this is going to play out than you do. And that's normal. It's common to be blind to facts when we're in the thick of something like this.

 

Just know that this letter will not be received positively. You could have nine pages of the most genuine, beautifully penned words ever recorded and it would not matter to this woman right now. I know you view this as your Hail Mary pass, but trust those here who are advising you not to send this.

 

 

Thanks a lot Blanco, I won't send the letter.

 

I did get an email today (the first time she's intiated contact since December when she wanted to get her things - apparently she didn't get everything, there is a storage cupboard which we keep out of season clothes and random things which was totally forgotten about).

 

"Hi Luke,

 

I was just wondering if i could organize a pickup time to grab my things from the storage cupboard next week? Could you also please transfer the rest of the overdraft amount into my account when you can. ( better for me i guess because carrying around so much cash is annoying)

 

Kind regards"

 

A little bit of background during the BU (the week before I saw her with the exchange guy) I wanted an excuse to give her money so I reminded how she helped me out by transferring me money from her overdraft account back in 2015 (when I was doing it a bit tough, I didn't tell her I was 'camping' I just said I was finding it hard to get jobs) and I wanted to pay that back.

 

I estimated it was around $2,000 (it was mostly in $100-200 transfers over about three months - I calculated it about a year ago as we were figuring out what she was spending her credit on) so I gave her $1000 in cash during the break up and said I would give the rest to her later.

 

I really did forget about it with all that's gone on since the break up but she hasn't.

 

Even though she lived with me in my apartment I was the sole title on the lease. And even though we both used the gas and electricity at the end of the day these were in my sole name too.

 

Since I had spent over $20,000 in rent in the few years I was renting and we were living together (plus I'm sure another $5,000 at least in phone and utilities) I kind of regarded the amounts she leant me (totalling around $2,000) as forgiven and in the past.

 

But I admit bringing it up during the BU as a way of giving her money trying to be on her good side (which I can see IS manipulative and desperate and wouldn't even be getting on her good side if it's money I already owe her).

 

The rents were a source of resentment from me looking back as I viewed us as being de factos and by her not even bothering to help clean her dishes after herself I found to be insulting as I was dealing with so much stress and paying the bills.

 

I am mad that she didn't even ask 'how are you?' or 'hope you are well' but then that would give the impression she cared eh? And I gather she took some time to phrase her request in a 'polite and professional' manner.

 

You may as well write 'Hi when can I organise to get stuff I forgot, transfer money so I don't have to see you straight up and then cut you out of my life '

 

I am hurt, I am in pain by this but I know I can't let it show.

 

I also know I cannot ignore this message, not that I fear being taken to claims court, or being served a warrant by police for her property (because the stuff in the storage cupboard is mostly sentimental old things not anything of worth) but because if I do it will just serve to confirm that I am using outstanding issues as a means of tethering our futures together to the smallest extent.

 

Even though *I want* to do that I know I can't force her to want to come back and spend time with me and it will just breed more resentment in her.

 

I will get back to the email in a few days, but I don't know what exactly to say because when I kowtowed to her demands last time at Christmas ('bring over my yoga mat' 'bring over my books' - yessir be there in an hour!) she still viewed me as controlling and manipulative.

 

Should I thus ignore if she is still going to view me and our relationship in such a sour light and it won't change anything?

 

I feel almost like making her angry, making her feel something, because I am in pain every hour of every day and she is just happy being off with some guy while re-writing the history of her relationship with me (which was for the vast majority of the time we were together a very loving, nurturing space where we knew we would always be there for one another).

 

I don't feel comfortable seeing her right now if that is the first thing that comes out of the gate, I also want to give her stuff back but need a few more weeks to process.

 

Should I be honest about that? Or will that come across as more manipulation even though it's the truth. I feel I will be ready to experience the final tearing away in another few weeks but not right after she's just sent me a completely mission-oriented heartless message.

 

She doesn't need the stuff because it's all out of season and as for the money I have no problem with that but her just not bothering to ask how I was (not that I would give a rambling response) but it's just the absence of it that really sends a message.

 

I'm thinking of writing

 

"Hi

 

Nice to hear from you!

 

I hope you are keeping fantastic.

 

I'm not ready for all this right now.

 

I'll transfer you the money (and don't I owe you some driving lessons as well? )

 

If there is anything urgent you need let me know otherwise give it another few weeks at least.

 

Feel free to call me anytime, at uni or whenever.

 

I just want to wish you well.

 

Take care,

 

Luke"

 

the other (more confident) message could be

 

"Hi

 

Thought you'd dropped off the face of the earth for a few weeks!

 

Sure come over anytime just give me a couple of hours notice.

 

I'll transfer you the money (and don't I owe you some driving lessons as well? )

 

If there is anything else you need let me know - feel free to call me anytime, at uni or whenever

 

I hope you are keeping fantastic, I just want to wish you well.

 

Take care,

 

Luke"

 

I don't want to come across as pathetic and overly available to the point the desperation is transparent ('feel free to call me anytime at uni, or whenever').

 

The only reason I feel comfortable leaving that in is that she's trying to organise something with me then why not call? and maybe that could lead to more open and less anxious interactions between us if she just felt able to call me.

 

I need to be honest and considering she already views me as controlling and manipulative I don't see how much worse things could be...

 

I guess I will ask for some tips about when I do see her but right now I just want to know how to respond to that message (what I should change about my response) and when should I send it - in a few days, in a week? I know if it's any longer than a week she would be so resentful.

 

I miss her everyday and this just sucks

[ExpatInItaly]

She doesn't want your driving lesson, OP. And she doesn't want to have a conversation with you, hence why she doesn't call.

 

She wants her belongings and her money.

 

Don't send either of those messages. Name a day and time when she can come and retrieve her things. Tell her when she can expect the money transfer. Reply today. That's it.

 

She is long gone from this relationship, OP. Get the logistics sorted, because I guarantee that any other banter or attempts to communicate will fall on deaf ears.

[niji]

I only read the first 2 pages and the last page, OP, but my advice to you is, cut off all contacts now. DO NOT find an excuse to be in touch. Get that money to her, and REMOVE her from your life.

 

I was with my ex for a long time (4 years), not as long as you, but we grew up together practically, and unfortunately also grew apart. I broke up with him (without any other guy in the picture); he attempted to stay friends and was miserable when I was adamant about cutting all contacts. He updated me about how he was getting serious with his new girlfriend (later wife), and also interjected some subtle hinting that he still cared like yours "driving lesson" comment.

 

DO NOT DO THIS.

 

I never replied to these emails, and the more he sent them, the more I felt like I was CORRECT in breaking up with him. Women (don't know about men) DO NOT respect men who are desperate to get with them. This projects an image of weakness, and, maybe because of the maternal instinct to protect their young, women just don't respect "weak" men. As much as it hurts you, please go express these feelings and frustrations elsewhere, and not to the actual ex. The sooner you cut her off, the more she will respect you. Even if she has no love left for you, she will still respect you, just like I respected my ex after he stopped chasing me.

 

And also, if she attempts to come back in the future, DO NOT let her. No respectable woman (or man) will come crawling back to you when the new deal didn't work out. PLEASE.

[ConfusedLuke]

I only read the first 2 pages and the last page, OP, but my advice to you is, cut off all contacts now. DO NOT find an excuse to be in touch. Get that money to her, and REMOVE her from your life.

 

I was with my ex for a long time (4 years), not as long as you, but we grew up together practically, and unfortunately also grew apart. I broke up with him (without any other guy in the picture); he attempted to stay friends and was miserable when I was adamant about cutting all contacts. He updated me about how he was getting serious with his new girlfriend (later wife), and also interjected some subtle hinting that he still cared like yours "driving lesson" comment.

 

DO NOT DO THIS.

 

I never replied to these emails, and the more he sent them, the more I felt like I was CORRECT in breaking up with him. Women (don't know about men) DO NOT respect men who are desperate to get with them. This projects an image of weakness, and, maybe because of the maternal instinct to protect their young, women just don't respect "weak" men. As much as it hurts you, please go express these feelings and frustrations elsewhere, and not to the actual ex. The sooner you cut her off, the more she will respect you. Even if she has no love left for you, she will still respect you, just like I respected my ex after he stopped chasing me.

 

And also, if she attempts to come back in the future, DO NOT let her. No respectable woman (or man) will come crawling back to you when the new deal didn't work out. PLEASE.

 

Did you ever consider getting back with him?

 

If he didn't flood you with emails, or attempt to stay on friendly terms so bad do you think you would have responded to a casual 'hey how are you these days?' message six months down the line?

 

I don't know what's the good of hollow 'respect' if she is out of my life completely, forever.

 

We spent nine years together and of course if she is now going steady (or fast) with this guy for a few months then clearly the old relationship is over, I just want to remain LC because who knows we could form a new relationship in the future.

 

I have taken weeks to reflect and know I would cherish every day with her and not make the same mistakes. I have started a diary and am actively planning the weeks ahead.

 

I have written-down solid goals now whereas before I had goals for our future together but I was on a whim at every lawyer's call or text from my mother. Now I am more internally with it, it's just a real pity she's not around

 

I understand just how resentful we became but it was a combination of miscommunication and crappy circumstance not because of some structural difference or inherent compatibility issues between us.

 

Even if she thought we grew apart with different values, it wasn't that it was that we didn't speak or share them enough. I would have loved to take her traveling with her conducting research into parts of the world (maybe to Catalonia, the Caribbean, South America or parts of Africa).

 

We weren't kind to each other, she detached and stopped bothering to be the slightest bit courteous around the place and I became a grumpy ball of stress devoid of kindness.

 

I know I can provide for her needs and support her goals. I get you though about the weakness thing, appearing needy and clingy is a huge turn off and if she was ever willing to give it another shot she would need to picture me as a beacon of strength not some Phantom of the Opera/hunchback of Notre Dame pathetic shell of a man.

 

But for now she is with another man, I am far from her mind and yes I guess you are right let it breathe, give her everything she wants and see if her heart ever opens to the prospect of rekindling.

 

But her actions to be honest seem heartless but I get it if she had already detached for months leading to BU and this guy pushed all her buttons of attraction by teaching her something she values and having an internal confidence.

 

He also seemed reserved when I met him and is probably the opposite of me -

whereas I can overwhelm with words he probably is grateful for her teaching her English phrases.

 

I can see how they bonded.

 

Suffice to say it was night and day to me being an all over the place nervous wreck.

 

I just wished we talked more openly, maybe had some counselling sessions before the BU.

 

Even if she feels she fell out of love with me (not 'in love') there is love there.

 

Even if she detached unless you have a heart of stone you don't stop caring for someone you were with for a decade (as much as you try to rewrite history and paint your old SO as a self-absorbed manipulator).

 

Maybe I'm too hopeful though

[ConfusedLuke]

She doesn't want your driving lesson, OP. And she doesn't want to have a conversation with you, hence why she doesn't call.

 

She wants her belongings and her money.

 

Don't send either of those messages. Name a day and time when she can come and retrieve her things. Tell her when she can expect the money transfer. Reply today. That's it.

 

She is long gone from this relationship, OP. Get the logistics sorted, because I guarantee that any other banter or attempts to communicate will fall on deaf ears.

 

If she didn't feel I respected her quest to be strong independent career woman then the driving lessons might help form some sort of bridge. It is also something I can give her that's practical and she loves anyone who can teach her things (language, subjects, maybe driving). Maybe that is grasping straws though...

 

I can also see if the person is viewing me as the 'big bad wolf' such an offer would produce a repulsive shudder. I can see it now - 'He wants to offer driving lessons now erghhh'. But I need to be light, and it is something nice and it isn't framed as an offer she has to accept or decline (so no pressure) but it's an idea and the thought is there.

 

I think the not calling is more than I wished her a happy birthday via. email and now that is the de facto channel of communication.

 

I think if I invited her to call she would ring. She initially called after Christmas to speak but I missed the call.

 

The relationship is over and maybe the banter will fall on deaf ears now but who knows what the future holds and if the last taste in her mouth is a man of renewed confidence and humour then I think it augers far better than someone who is militaristically performing the function of handing money and stuff back, or worse someone who is emotionally breaking down while doing so or dragging it further out.

[ExpatInItaly]

If she didn't feel I respected her quest to be strong independent career woman then the driving lessons might help form some sort of bridge. It is also something I can give her that's practical and she loves anyone who can teach her things (language, subjects, maybe driving). Maybe that is grasping straws though...

 

That is most definitely you grasping at straws.

 

It's over, man.

[ConfusedLuke]

That is most definitely you grasping at straws.

 

It's over, man.

 

So what do you reckon then, I know our old relationship's over (and there may never be a new 'us' again) but do you think she will ever reach out?

 

We aren't on any social media (and she has facebook, snapchat, whatsapp etc.) or mutual friends. We don't work, study or live together anymore. We do have each others numbers and emails but that's it.

 

Even after all what's happened I still love her, even if I know to move on I can't be 'in love' anymore.

 

The agony is the great unknown for the future and although everyone's experience and MMV I think we held enough of a connection to be on good terms again one day and all this recent mess of the last year while a severance of our relationship, is a speed bump in our lives, in the overall scheme of things.

 

I need to focus on something - like set a date in four or six months time to just touch base.

 

We did everything together - the cliche for co-dependent relationships was like she was 'arm' but she really was, the light in my life and all that.

 

Even if she is re-writing history and trying to compartmentalise me I believe we will always think of one another. I don't know whether she will miss me as much as I miss her but that's neither here nor there.

 

I just don't want us to both be in pain because she may be too prideful or too scared to reach out if she finds herself alone, if it doesn't work out. I have no one of knowing because there are no channels to know if she and the guy are still going (bar the sister's best friend which I do hope to hold some light friendship with into the future).

 

I don't want to be 'batter up' option number two but if she needs this time and I need time to become more confident too then maybe we can reform a healthier relationship months to over a year down the line.

 

We have a lot of shared experiences and great memories together and it does feel like a part of me would die if she left my life for good and I didn't see her for decades or ever again.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ConfusedLuke

[ExpatInItaly]

She might reach out someday, but more often that not, exes grow apart and slowly lose contact over time anyway.

 

I have broken off two long-term, live-in relationships in the past. While I wish both those exes well, it's been years since I've had any contact with either of them. As time passes, people move on. We were part of each other's pasts, but we are not part of each other's presents or futures.

 

You need to let this go so you can move on too.

[ConfusedLuke]

She might reach out someday, but more often that not, exes grow apart and slowly lose contact over time anyway.

 

I have broken off two long-term, live-in relationships in the past. While I wish both those exes well, it's been years since I've had any contact with either of them. As time passes, people move on. We were part of each other's pasts, but we are not part of each other's presents or futures.

 

You need to let this go so you can move on too.

 

Say they did contact you, what would make you more likely to respond. A very generic 'How are you these days' coupled with a facebook friend request (or maybe a friend request by itself then a generic message).

 

 

Or something like Hey how are you (some paragraph update on their life) then well wishes etc.

 

Would it make you more interested in engaging if they said something about what they were up to? Or would it make no difference?

 

Also I don't know your relationship status but if you were single would it make a difference?

 

I have also been brooding on the fact that the first phone call she had with me since I saw her with the guy she (straight up no 'hello how are you?'):

 

1) Asked me when she could get her stuff.

 

2) Said the guy didn't think I was 'nice towards him' (showing more empathy to this guy she's known 5% as long as she has known me and has been with for a week - not even bothering to ask my impression of him + she's known me for nearly a decade and I met him for five minutes - you would think she would be able to speak honestly about me to him and given the context upon reflection maybe I was *too* nice).

 

She is just being cruel and I really don't deserve it. She doesn't "owe" me anything but at the same time she shows no respect for me as a person by offering an olive branch when breaking up then trashing it by dating a next guy the very next week (there is never a right time to move on, to 'fall in love' (I don't believe it's 'love' I just think it's a welcome relief from being in such an intense relationship for nearly a decade where real devotion and love did exist) with someone else but the way it happened WAS crappy, she knew this guy for six months).

 

I won't wait forever though, but I'll give it a few days I'm not going to be on her beck and call, especially regarding this.

 

She knows I'm hurting, she knows she hurt me and even if she believes it is her money and she has right over her stuff the way she's acted - there's nothing fair in love and war... I almost feel like completely going NC and burning it but then the feelings of I love her and maybe we will be together one day again take over and hope and all that.

 

She put herself in a position to be seduced by this guy, even if she believes she was the instigator he was the one going out to the dance nights with her, showing her a good time, if she respected our relationship she would have at least checked herself and her emotions about this guy and come to me.

 

Even if she wasn't consciously looking to window shop or hook up she exposed herself to be emotionally available to this guy and to me that's screwy but not unforgivable as we were both under a lot of stress and it's little wonder she found it more enjoyable out of the apartment we shared at uni and going out dancing meeting this guy.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ConfusedLuke

[ExpatInItaly]

Say they did contact you, what would make you more likely to respond. A very generic 'How are you these days' coupled with a facebook friend request (or maybe a friend request by itself then a generic message).

 

Or something like Hey how are you (some paragraph update on their life) then well wishes etc.

 

Would it make you more interested in engaging if they said something about what they were up to? Or would it make no difference?

 

Also I don't know your relationship status but if you were single would it make a difference?

 

I'm not single, but no, it would make zero difference. None of what you speculate would. To be clear, both relationships ended years ago, and both exes are now married with children - but even though they both tried to reach me after the breakups (especially the first ex) it did not make any difference. I was glad they were doing well, but I didn't have a desire to keep up the communication.

 

I broke up with them because I truly didn't want to be with them anymore. A one-line or one-paragraph message or social media Friend request wouldn't have changed that. They were good men, but our respective relationships had passed their expiration dates (for various reasons) and I was not interested any longer. I have since found someone much more suited to me, and clearly, they both found women better-suited to them too.

 

You're focusing on all the wrong things, OP. It's not really about how you handle this break-up or plot ongoing communication; it's about the fact that your ex no longer wants to be with you. I know it's very hard, but you need to start accepting that her heart and mind are not with you anymore.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ExpatInItaly

[ConfusedLuke]

It's not really about how you handle this break-up or plot ongoing communication; it's about the fact that your ex no longer wants to be with you. I know it's very hard, but you need to start accepting that her heart and mind are not with you anymore.

 

But I feel it wasn't just because our relationship grew stale or ran it's course but more that we were under such crappy pressure and grew resentful and miserable at each other. Take away the pressure and if were more open then I think we would still be together. I wasn't as supportive as I could have been but I have completely re-calibrated my focus and priorities. This might all sound 'coulda, shoulda, woulda' but I really do believe it's a situational thing not that we both couldn't make it work in the future.

 

And this situation of my mother's bankruptcy, my late grandmother's estate dispute, her still fairly recent fertility diagnosis come into play.

 

Because I was so focussed on stability or providing to have kids one day I think she found me closed-minded and not open to exploring the world and different cultures when I was I just wanted to have a base so we could but we never talked about it. I took it as a given and maybe she didn't think I wanted to at all. That I would always be wrapped up in my mother's issues or going on about tradition.

 

I love her so much, and this isn't a crushing infatuation kind of love, this is from a deep-seated appreciation formed over years.

 

I love her humane and curious perspective on the world and maybe she felt I grew hard-hearted with everything and couldn't bring any lightness or levity to her life anymore.

 

I think she validated that it did 'run it's course' that we did 'grow apart' which is why she was able to make the break and explore her feelings with another man but to be honest it was the circumstances and lack of communication and these aren't inherent differences that can never be overcome but maybe a break is what was needed to be that circuit breaker for the realisation to occur.

 

Even if she did not find my behaviour loving and felt unsupported I just wish she came to me. Now it's famous last words for everything because soon she may be cutting ties completely but I am so fond of her and wish she could see that there could be a future, that I could be that man of strength for her to explore the world with.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ConfusedLuke

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, you're projecting your feelings onto her. If she didn't feel the relationship had met its end for her, she wouldn't have ended it.

 

You can analyze it until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that she chose a different direction and moved on.

[Young mind]

As much as I see you're taking efforts to analyze this, which I appreciate very much, you must set a time limit for it else it will consume you, and at this rate you're doing yourself little good, maybe opt for a psychological session, maybe once or twice a week, vent and it will help you with a better analysis and you will discover the pros and cons.

 

you're putting her on a pedestal, which clearly she will never live up to, take her off Mount Everest and see the situation as it is, you are very hurt and we all accept that but you must ATTEMPT to move on, that is the recurring message on this thread, you MUST MOVE ON MAN.

I was speaking to my mate and he told me of his breakup a few months ago, they were together for 7 years, she dumped him and post break up she told him she's was very devastated and possibly had heart problems because of the decision she had to make, doesn't make her a terrible person but it was a decision she had to stand by, it was difficult for everyone but these things happen very often, people grow out of love for several reasons but ACCEPTANCE IS KEY.

 

If you take the steps to move on, you will be back here 2-3 months later, also writing about your progress, we were all in your shoes once, wether it was 1 he or 5 yrs, I have witnessed even 20 yrs, it does happen but everyone comes out stronger.

[CantTakeMySmile]

I was in a relationship with my ex -gf for eight years. We lived together for seven and a half, bought a house together and had three dogs. Worked together, had bank accounts together, loans together, etc. We were IN it.

 

 

My dad had a terminal illness for much of our relationship. I was spread very thin with my responsibilities with my family. She was having issues with her family as well. We both were moving up at the company and we were both running thin. I say all of this, not as any excuse, only to say that this is life. Life is, and always will be, full of obstacles.

 

 

She was the one who believed in all the fairy tale endings. I didn't (then). Anyway, she broke up with me. No infidelity, no third person at all. We broke up because of life, I guess. She did not fall out of love with me. I know this because she told me all the time. We dragged out the breakup for way too long. I needed answers and she needed to be near me, so we were weak.

 

 

She was always very kind and accommodating to my questioning. (too accommodating, in fact, as it took us the good part of a year to break apart) Neither of us wanted to let go, but she knew we couldn't be in limbo. That is when she would send me messages like the one you received about receiving her things back and money, etc. By no means were they mean, but they were functional. She need something so she asked. That was it. And it hurt. It did. But, it put the end to the cycle. (Thank God).

 

 

I guess what I am trying to say is.... yes, she can still love you, and care about you. Of course she does. But, she wants a break from you. She is taking it upon herself to break the cycle. Good for her. She doesn't want to hurt you but she has to put her feelings before yours.

 

 

And you have to accept this, you don't have to like it, but you have to accept it. OP, you have to move on. She is showing you no signs that she wants anything from you. Just because you love her to the ends of the earth, does not mean it will happen. You can't LOVE yourself into someone else's life.

[CantTakeMySmile]

Also, why would you wait to respond to her email? That is game playing and rude. It isn't needy to respond to a request. It is rude not to. She wasn't being rude in her email. She probably just didn't want to open the door to a novel by asking how you were. That would lead right down a rabbit hole.

 

 

Since you are not ready to see her, is there another way to get her things to her? Have someone take it to her? Mail? Drop off at her house?

[frigginlost]

Also, why would you wait to respond to her email? That is game playing and rude. It isn't needy to respond to a request. It is rude not to. She wasn't being rude in her email. She probably just didn't want to open the door to a novel by asking how you were. That would lead right down a rabbit hole.

 

 

Since you are not ready to see her, is there another way to get her things to her? Have someone take it to her? Mail? Drop off at her house?

 

Outstanding point.

 

He even mentions in his post that one of her issues with him was his manipulation tactics. And here it is bright as day that he is trying to manipulate her again. No matter what he says, no matter what he does, she will focus entirely on the fact that he is manipulating and game playing by not simply giving her stuff back.

 

OP, we all know what you're going through, but every single step you are taking is obliterating any respect she has left for you piece by piece.

 

We know you miss her, we know it hurts, but she has moved on and you are giving her more reasons to be very sure of her decision with your actions. It does not feel that way to you because you are so very deeply invested emotionally, but you are doing nothing but throwing dirt on the grave by continuing to manipulate in her eyes.

 

It hurts, and it sucks, but you have got to move on as well.

[Jacob_Duluoz]

Bro don't even play her game. Ignore her message completely. Leave that ball in her court. If she wants her things she doesn't need bad enough she'll ask again, and if you don't feel you owe her the money don't give her the money. Complete silence.

[NopeNah]

Wow! What a read! I think I got dizzy/headache.

 

OP, dude.. I read nothing but desperation and manipulation coming from you and I can see why she's only contacting you via email and keeping it business like(logistics about securing her items/money). I'd assume if she were to call you,in the mindset you're in,you'd be telling her this stuff..YIKES! Do you feel you owe her the money? As for her things; Send them to her via the mail/post. Holding them hostage in hopes of reconciliation is freaking insane and very petty! Don't be that guy. No need to wait..send them now and get on with your life.This relationship is OVER!

 

Edit: I'd look into some therapy too, if I were you. NOT the one she was seeing,but a new therapist.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Praying4Daylight

[niji]

Did you ever consider getting back with him?

 

If he didn't flood you with emails, or attempt to stay on friendly terms so bad do you think you would have responded to a casual 'hey how are you these days?' message six months down the line?

 

No. I had "detached" for a year or two before the actual breakup; I asked him to change several things (minor things, as I said he's never had a "dealbreaker", but in the end I realized we weren't as compatible as I thought we were, I wasn't having fun, wasn't enjoying life with him), he didn't. If I thought the relationship was salvageable, I wouldn't have ended it. Honest, decent people do not end LTR unless they've tried to salvage it, to no avail.

 

Once I ended the relationship, I had no more feelings for him. If I did have feelings left, I wouldn't have ended it. We were both adults; I didn't need to make a threat to get it my way; I didn't end things to make him change. I ended things because he did not change (and heck, you can't make someone change, they are who they are. I learned the hard way). Sure, I could have remained cordial (and we were "Facebook friends" for a while before I deleted mine, for reasons unrelated to him of course), but to me remaining cordial means very little. We might as well not have ever spoken to each other ever again and it would still feel the same as being "FB friends".

 

I always wished him the best in my thought. To me, there's value in mutual respect after the breakup, because to me, that shows he's a decent people that deserves my respect. I'd rather think back and say, "He was a decent person, I'm thankful for the 4 years together and the experience that taught me", vs "Ugh, such a clingy person with no self-respect, why did I ever get with him?" Maybe you don't care about "hollow respect". I always thought it's better to part and still think of the other person as a respectable person, than to part way and hate each other's gut/despise each other. To each his own.

Edited February 2, 2018 by niji

[ConfusedLuke]

OP, you're projecting your feelings onto her. If she didn't feel the relationship had met its end for her, she wouldn't have ended it.

 

You can analyze it until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that she chose a different direction and moved on.

 

I'm not projecting my feelings, she just never bothered opening up to me and talking about her visions and her doubts that I shared them.

 

We never had those 'mature' discussions so I thought noting was wrong. Every day I went to work, every time I went to look after my mother (who screamed nothing but abuse to me until 3am) I did it for her, to try and secure a future for us.

 

She is the one who gave up and the insidious thing is that she drew into her shell for months, kept her poker face 'everything is fine' even when I attempted to broach if she was feeling OK or she was feeling down she never bothered opening up.

 

If someone is uncomfortable opening up to you fair enough, but to be with you for so many years and withdraw yourself from your SO for months divulging your unhappiness to your friends and mother but never to your partner is beyond it. Especially when your partner is trying his best for you and you are the light of his life, beyond the petty squabbles over dishes.

 

I often over-analyse (as you can probably see from this) and try and identify every mis-step I took, every foot in my mouth sentence I uttered to her but the truth is she is the one who took the 'not bothering anymore' road. Even if I was overwhelmed and overwhelming with my issues (which I thought were our issues we were facing together) she just never cared enough to open up when I asked.

 

Then only weeks/months after she made the decision while she was still calling me pet names and getting hugs from me did she feel comfortable breaking it off with the support of her friends. I'm not projecting anything onto her, obviously I can't read her mind or heart but the fact is I would have done anything for her if she asked me. I would have dropped all the legal cases and cut ties with my mother once more.

 

Maybe she didn't feel comfortable doing so because what if we have 'drifted apart' anyway and if I gave up the fight for the estate and to save my mother and a year down the line she left me anyway how would her conscience feel then?

 

But then that would have been my choice to put her first, the truth of the matter is that no matter what she was priority number one and even if she up and left after I had given up the ghost with everything else I would have still respected her for being open with me and it would have been my decision to stick by her and throw everything else away.

 

As it was, I was so preoccupied by it (the legal cases, stress at work to get money for legal cases, going to see my psychotic mother to try and save the family home) thinking it was a fight for our future, and she never voiced her dissent to it (she was onboard and seemed to be there for me asking me about how it was going, holding me when I was crying) how was I to know how dissatisfied she was?

 

I would still take her out to watch sports matches, films and bars (all in the final month of BU) I repaired her computer and did little things like edit essays and drove her to school care.

 

I'm bitterly upset through all this she knew she was going to break my heart and then when she did she cried to me wanting to remain friends and now she has those needs met through another man and her close friends she doesn't need me in her life.

 

She told me she would take the space to heal and find herself again but then she went off on a date the very next week after being in bed with me and now is in another relationship.

 

It's beyond being cordial. I'm not the one being petty by holding her things ransom or not transferring around $1000 to her account when she has broken everything inside of me and is so cold as to not even bother to call me from time to time. She knew that she was everything to me.

 

Even if she fell out of love with me, she never gave me the chance to rectify mistakes if she was feeling alone in the relationship and overwhelmed, she never came to me and that is the betrayal and screw any material things like clothes and money.

 

Finally she projects onto me that I'm the bad guy, controller and manipulator and all this when all I've ever done is be there for her, and she knows it. It's just that she chose not to bother telling me how she felt when I asked.

 

This is why I think it's circumstantial because once all the crap of the legal cases, of my mother's welfare (I think she will end up in a supported environment or women's home) and I don't have any worry about this maybe she would feel secure enough to involve herself in my life again.

 

'Too much baggage, too many broken feelings, you already said you felt betrayed by her and that will eat any future new relaltionship'

 

No, because I understand that we were both in really crappy situations with her health and my family issues and the lack of clear and honest communication from her meant that I was operating on imperfect information thinking that I was always doing the best by her when really she was drifting away - with scheduled check ins and counselling these are things that may be fixed.

 

People may say 'once her hearts not in it anymore you can't do anything about it' but there is a Luke she fell in love with and she said the problem wasn't physical. We can be good a match again it's just that right now her mind is set on this other man and she has re-written history about what was a very dedicated perhaps to the extent of codependent relationship.

 

Sorry I will respond in another reply but I feel like letting my feelings known to her in a very brief one page response. I am still going over, I don't want to be spiteful but I still feel like she is painting herself as the courageous victor and both helpless victim in this when she really shafted me.

 

I want her to friggin' know and I don't care whether the optics of it make me look slighted, weak, pathetic or vindictive - the way she went about things (especially with everything looming up on me - the bankruptcy hearing and adjacent family house being sold) is atrocious and lacks any 'compassion or empathy' (things she would say she prioritised when she was with me).

[ConfusedLuke]

As much as I see you're taking efforts to analyze this, which I appreciate very much, you must set a time limit for it else it will consume you, and at this rate you're doing yourself little good, maybe opt for a psychological session, maybe once or twice a week, vent and it will help you with a better analysis and you will discover the pros and cons.

 

you're putting her on a pedestal, which clearly she will never live up to, take her off Mount Everest and see the situation as it is, you are very hurt and we all accept that but you must ATTEMPT to move on, that is the recurring message on this thread, you MUST MOVE ON MAN.

I was speaking to my mate and he told me of his breakup a few months ago, they were together for 7 years, she dumped him and post break up she told him she's was very devastated and possibly had heart problems because of the decision she had to make, doesn't make her a terrible person but it was a decision she had to stand by, it was difficult for everyone but these things happen very often, people grow out of love for several reasons but ACCEPTANCE IS KEY.

 

If you take the steps to move on, you will be back here 2-3 months later, also writing about your progress, we were all in your shoes once, wether it was 1 he or 5 yrs, I have witnessed even 20 yrs, it does happen but everyone comes out stronger.

 

Maybe I am putting her on a pedestal to some extent but she was the most gorgeous beautiful delicate soul and really believed in me when the chips were down. She just loved learning about the world and exploring and she has the most beautiful smile and voice. And she really loved me, when the only other person who did (my grandmother) drifted away with dementia before my eyes.

 

I can never be angry at her despite my upsets and frustrations because I know she would never purposefully let me down or make me hurt. I know acceptance is key and I absolutely respect her autonomy and the more I try to push reconciliation the more it will come across like that hawker on the street trying to push a promo card onto you or door-to-door salesman you don't want lingering around on your porch.

 

Even if a letter will fall on barren ground because she has shunted all her feelings away deep down inside and poured cement over them as a human I need to let her know my perspective - maybe it won't engender respect from her, maybe it won't have the desired effect of seeing my position or eye to eye but I can't go on in this state when she is about to cut all ties with me without sending her a very brief summary of what I feel about her and how she ended it. Some may see it as a immature missive but the way she acted... I will reply below with it after I have responded to some other posters but thank you for your perspective.

 

I understand acceptance is critical but I can only accept once I have aired these feelings and communicated them to her. Otherwise I feel I will always be roiling and steaming inside, I don't want her clothes and the pitiful money issue to be the reasons she feels compelled to consider reading what I send but I am somewhat of a consequentialist in that regard.

 

She may feel it is manipulation but hell I feel used, exploited and manipulated living in a lie of a relationship for months then her breaking the news after being away for a week days before my mother's bankruptcy hearing and house being sold is crappy - there would have been no perfect time but if she came earlier when the resentment was beginning to fester instead of hiding away we could have been on better ground - maybe it would have still ended but just knowing she was detaching for months while still playing nice is screwed up.

 

And I think she justifies it because she thinks she is a good person and couldn't leave right away with everything falling apart around me but the fact is all this burden I was shouldering was to provide her and I a future!

[CantTakeMySmile]

but I feel like letting my feelings known to her in a very brief one page response.

 

A few things to consider...Do you think she doesn't know your feelings? Do you think she cares? Don't you think if she did, then she would be talking to you?

[CantTakeMySmile]

I understand acceptance is critical but I can only accept once I have aired these feelings and communicated them to her.

 

After you write down your feelings and send to her, then will you be able to accept that it is over? Or will you need a response from her?