Struggling guys told to "date-within-your-league"

[Cookiesandough]

No, they are just a specifc mode of getting to know people, a filter so to speak, where the initial contact is strongly based on looks. One reason why I pretty much always did better, a lot better, in other ways of getting to know somebody, as I'm somewhat of a talker. It is also a further reduction to a specific event, the very start of getting to know somebody. (If you are into casual dating that may be all that matters.) If you deprioritize subsequent stages of getting to know somebody you will of course give looks a greater weight.

 

But seems like they all seem to 'devolve' that way. That's what they reduce to. I used to say I strongly disliked Tinder/online dating because it' so superficial and lazy. Then I realized it's not Tinder/online dating that's the problem...it's the users. It's people. I realized what I was seeing just dating with all the fat cut out. That it was our natural inclination to want to date people who looked good enough, then we figure out all the other stuff later. That's why that lazy swipe feature became implemented on every dating site. When that Sapio app that supposedly was made to escape that problem by catering to people who wanted to go for personality/intelligence first came out, I knew it would either form the same hierarchy that Tinder has, with upper echleons being the most attractive self-proclaimed intelligent people (gah, can you imagine?) or fail altogether and have no one go there. Yeah, it tanked. Sure, there are people who are predominantly attracted to minds, but most people are sickeningly superficial when it comes to dating. Yuck. Wish I could say I'm above it

Edited November 9, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[elaine567]

Agreed....

Social skills are way overrated(usually by women)....Truth is I think social skills only really benefit those with weaknesses in the other areas you mentioned....Plenty of guys are "lone wolves", shy, even outlaw types, whatever, yet never are without female attention...

 

 

But those guys may not actually lack social skills, it is perfectly possible to be shy or a loner or be a criminal outlaw and still possess excellent social skills.

[RecentChange]

It would be hard to be a successful attorney and lack basic social skills. Even contract law you need to be able to communicate extremely well and negotiate with others (I work in law and interact with attorneys all day).

 

Doctors also need to be able to interact and communicate with humans effectively.

 

I see numbers of extremely well paid, successful, socially akward computer programmers in my area - and the lack of basic social skills hinders their success with women. Not to say all tech guys lack social skills, far from it, but it is an industry where people who lack social skills can prosper.

Edited November 9, 2017 by RecentChange

[Shanex]

Agreed....

 

Social skills are way overrated(usually by women)....Truth is I think social skills only really benefit those with weaknesses in the other areas you mentioned....Plenty of guys are "lone wolves", shy, even outlaw types, whatever, yet never are without female attention...

 

 

TFY

 

Absolutely. Men are lonely creatures by and large, until we met a nice woman willing to accompany us for a while.

 

I fall in your description I bolded, at my advantage and without false modesty, I am not bad looking, not that stupid (oh, sometimes...) and can hold a convo.

 

The thing is, when you compare yourself to other men. Most are struggling more than me, except for a few married with children (happily at least, as not everybody is...).

[Imajerk17]

The whole confidence argument is like the age old smoke and fire argument. Which comes first? Everyone tells dudes to just be confident and they will do well. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't work that way. If an ugly dude walks up to his local hottie and asks her out confidently, she isn't suddenly going to be interested in him. Most confident dudes are confident for a reason, experience has taught them to be confident.

 

 

 

Chances are though that the guy didn't get his confidence doing approaches in a bar. He was probably the guy in school who didn't give AF about anything. Not the best student or best athlete or best-looking, a guy like this just had confidence and swag. So girls were asking HIM out in junior high. When this guy left school, maybe or maybe not he became successful career-wise, but his confidence with women stayed with him.

 

(If a guy approaches 100 such hotties chances are at least 2 or 3 will say yes. We even had a poster here a few years ago. In school for forever, hardly any ambition, in his 30s hitting on 20-year-old girls, short, and not even much confidence--he used to gripe that his height was holding him back. Eventually even he got a FWB. But I digress though.)

 

Right.....and there are convicts sitting in jail, serving long sentences, that have women coming to see them, putting their houses up for bail money, crying and writing letters to parole boards, etc...

 

The way some people talk, it's as if you have to be Tony Robbins or something to get within 100 yds of a typical woman..

 

TFY

 

My buddy that I used in this example is a bit of a loser. Ladies will bang him for a while, but they always give him crap about his life, and rightly so.

 

 

But the above is what I have been saying about "leagues" all along though. You have guys on here and out there who are probably in a higher "league" than your buddy, but when they go out they can hardly get a woman to interact with them, nevermind leave the bar with them that night. Some of these guys are pretty good-looking too. That these women get sick of your buddy after a few weeks is besides the point to these guys who can't even get a woman into them in the first place.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Imajerk17

[GunslingerRoland]

Honestly, I think this whole concept is more about targeting a very specific group of men who are hyper focused on being with a "babe" while bringing very little to the table themselves in terms of looks, economic and social status, and then because of their inability to find the women of their dreams, get angry and blame women for their struggles.

 

If you are the type of person to successfully meet the opposite sex easily, you'll probably find you date up more often than someone who is struggling just to get a date here or there let alone anything more.

[CptInsano]

But seems like they all seem to 'devolve' that way. That's what they reduce to. I used to say I strongly disliked Tinder/online dating because it' so superficial and lazy. Then I realized it's not Tinder/online dating that's the problem...it's the users. It's people. I realized what I was seeing just dating with all the fat cut out. That it was our natural inclination to want to date people who looked good enough, then we figure out all the other stuff later. That's why that lazy swipe feature became implemented on every dating site.

 

Yes, it's surely not the app but the people who want to date that way. And that is perfectly legitimate. But it is a subset, you or I don't have to restrict ourselves to that. Somebody like me who has no trouble striking up a conversation IRL doesn't necessarily need online dating, and I do indeed seem to come across better in person. I think I quoted her before, but I wasn't my last date's ideal type. It took her one hour to get over that, so that connection would have never happened online.

 

When that Sapio app that supposedly was made to escape that problem by catering to people who wanted to go for personality/intelligence first came out, I knew it would either form the same hierarchy that Tinder has, with upper echleons being the most attractive self-proclaimed intelligent people (gah, can you imagine?) or fail altogether and have no one go there. Yeah, it tanked. Sure, there are people who are predominantly attracted to minds, but most people are sickeningly superficial when it comes to dating. Yuck. Wish I could say I'm above it

 

You can't escape that problem with an app. I know the people you are talking about. No, that really doesn't solve the problem, plus the whole sapio movement was a bit of a fad, wasn't it?

[basil67]

The truth.

 

And a lot of men that as they approach a woman they always

get the body language with the look on their face, don't even try

to talk to me I am never going out with you let alone give you

the time to try to start a conversation for you to attempt to

impress me.

 

And, if the man see's this but tries anyway because he wants to

be optimistic one day he will get lucky. For all men aspire to reach

their highest level of greatness in all areas of life.

 

Shakes head. It's guys like this who won't respect a "no" who end up giving men a bad name. It's no wonder some women build up resentment at being approached when going about their daily business.

[jay1983]

No, they are just a specifc mode of getting to know people, a filter so to speak, where the initial contact is strongly based on looks. One reason why I pretty much always did better, a lot better, in other ways of getting to know somebody, as I'm somewhat of a talker. It is also a further reduction to a specific event, the very start of getting to know somebody. (If you are into casual dating that may be all that matters.) If you deprioritize subsequent stages of getting to know somebody you will of course give looks a greater weight.

 

I've done well in social settings as well as bars and restaurants. But I'm not gonna play stupid, I know I have a look that good number Hispanic women find attractive. That's what allows me to open my mouth and they listen. I can tell whether or not to approach a random woman just by her body language. I can also tell within the first 10 seconds whether or not they're feeling me. I'm not pyshic or anything, these are obvious signs.

[CptInsano]

I've done well in social settings as well as bars and restaurants. But I'm not gonna play stupid, I know I have a look that good number Hispanic women find attractive. That's what allows me to open my mouth and they listen. I can tell whether or not to approach a random woman just by her body language. I can also tell within the first 10 seconds whether or not they're feeling me. I'm not pyshic or anything, these are obvious signs.

 

I personally do well in everyday settings. Sometimes a woman's actions or demeanor may signal interest, but even if she doesn't, it may just mean that her mind is on something else. I look probably more approachable than attractive, meaning that I smile a lot, simply because it's more or less my natural disposition. I cannot say that one ethnicity likes me more or less, it's just a very broad spectrum really, and the same goes for looks: It's very hard for me to tell if a woman may or may not find me attractive by her physical appearance, as it has been a pretty broad range in that regard.

 

But ultimately it is IMHO beneficial if a guy doesn't necessarily limit himself to women who he thinks are available to him. A rejection costs very little, and a chance at somebody may never come again.

[elaine567]

I can tell whether or not to approach a random woman just by her body language. I can also tell within the first 10 seconds whether or not they're feeling me. I'm not pyshic or anything, these are obvious signs.

 

Because you have the social skills to do that, guys who struggle often cannot read basic body language, it is like a foreign language to them, so they end up chasing women who "obviously" are not interested, and ignoring the women who are.

[jay1983]

I personally do well in everyday settings. Sometimes a woman's actions or demeanor may signal interest, but even if she doesn't, it may just mean that her mind is on something else. I look probably more approachable than attractive, meaning that I smile a lot, simply because it's more or less my natural disposition. I cannot say that one ethnicity likes me more or less, it's just a very broad spectrum really, and the same goes for looks: It's very hard for me to tell if a woman may or may not find me attractive by her physical appearance, as it has been a pretty broad range in that regard.

 

But ultimately it is IMHO beneficial if a guy doesn't necessarily limit himself to women who he thinks are available to him. A rejection costs very little, and a chance at somebody may never come again.

 

 

 

I disagree with you. It could be demographics, maybe in your neck of the woods women aren't approached as often. I believe you're in a rural area. (Forgive me if I'm mistaken) We're I am it's very common for women to be cold approached and I think they're sick of it. Perhapsthe signs were there from the beginning, you just didn't notice them?

 

FYI if you're brown you don't have a whole lot women of other ethnicities taking interest in you. It's not like the white male who's sought after by just about every race of women.

[CptInsano]

I disagree with you. It could be demographics, maybe in your neck of the woods women aren't approached as often. I believe you're in a rural area. (Forgive me if I'm mistaken) We're I am it's very common for women to be cold approached and I think they're sick of it. Perhapsthe signs were there from the beginning, you just didn't notice them?

 

I live in a rural area but work in a city, but it is in the Midwest. People here are generally friendly, so that makes it easier in the sense that a chat is just that and socially acceptable. But I've found women to be relatively talkative pretty much anywhere. And no, signs are often not there, and the reason is very simple: Many people are just caught up in what they are doing, and are not reacting to your presence at all. There is a lot of neutral body language.

 

FYI if you're brown you don't have a whole lot women of other ethnicities taking interest in you. It's not like the white male who's sought after by just about every race of women.

Yes, I am white, so that may make a difference, even though extrapolating from my circle of friends it seems to depend on the individual.

[2.50 a gallon]

One spring, a gal moved into my apartment complex. Long legged, and the right curves in all the right places. Every guy living there had the hots for her. She was a CPA, in fact half owner with an older gentleman of an up an coming local accounting firm. They were using her good looks, to help get new clients. I saw her go out on several dates, many times dressed in Tuxs, going to the ballet, the opera, one rich guy even wore a white tux, and they took off in his street legal LeMans Porsche. Like James Bond. I recognized the assistant fire chief, a local sports broadcaster and a couple of ball players. She was staying for only 6 months as her condo was being totally remodeled. Totally out of my league

But in some ways she was down to earth, liked to hang out at the pool, and some time when we went some where as a group she would come along.

She shot down all of the local guys, and I just tried to be friendly and quite often she would join me out by the pool after it got dark and just talk.

Then one night after a couple of beers we talked talked thru how to do a back flip. I failed on the first try and succeeded on the second and then there she was coming up behind me and telling me how much she was attracted to me.

We ended in a FWB relationship that lasted for half a decade. I ended up with keys to her condo. And it I ever wanted to I could borrow her Datsun Z car and her rebuilt port holer T-Bird. All she asked was that every other week we would go and have Mexican food together. And when the disco craze hit she was my partner.

Shortly after I married she married a local leading architect

Lesson learned, there is nobody out of my league

[road]

One spring, a gal moved into my apartment complex. Long legged, and the right curves in all the right places. Every guy living there had the hots for her. She was a CPA, in fact half owner with an older gentleman of an up an coming local accounting firm. They were using her good looks, to help get new clients. I saw her go out on several dates, many times dressed in Tuxs, going to the ballet, the opera, one rich guy even wore a white tux, and they took off in his street legal LeMans Porsche. Like James Bond. I recognized the assistant fire chief, a local sports broadcaster and a couple of ball players. She was staying for only 6 months as her condo was being totally remodeled. Totally out of my league

But in some ways she was down to earth, liked to hang out at the pool, and some time when we went some where as a group she would come along.

She shot down all of the local guys, and I just tried to be friendly and quite often she would join me out by the pool after it got dark and just talk.

Then one night after a couple of beers we talked talked thru how to do a back flip. I failed on the first try and succeeded on the second and then there she was coming up behind me and telling me how much she was attracted to me.

We ended in a FWB relationship that lasted for half a decade. I ended up with keys to her condo. And it I ever wanted to I could borrow her Datsun Z car and her rebuilt port holer T-Bird. All she asked was that every other week we would go and have Mexican food together. And when the disco craze hit she was my partner.

Shortly after I married she married a local leading architect

Lesson learned, there is nobody out of my league

 

Initially you were. And still are. What happened is time let her

see you were not the usual ass hat, combined with that she

wanted sex but did not want hook ups until she met her Mr Right.

 

You were good enough to scratch her itch while she was waiting.

Not saying I did better.

[CptInsano]

Mine was the trophy wife of a rather well-connected man, who is a former colleague and a friend. I helped her get a job once, and I think she misunderstood my gesture. She would send my emails describing the lingerie she was wearing every workday, and wasn't all that coy about her intentions. But that move would have meant risking my career, plus I didn't want to be the other man in a divorce situation.

[Imajerk17]

See here is the problem w the whole "leagues" thing. So what are these "leagues"? Are you the one to make the decision for HER, that she is "out of your league"? Do you even know what she is attracted to? Isn't she allowed to decide for herself whom she wants to know better too

 

There are plenty of accomplished women--actresses, pro athletes, models, ect, who are perfectly happy w supposedly average guys.

 

(The other side to this is that if you can see that a woman isn't into you, then let her be. Don't badger her, that is what gives our gender a bad name. She has a right to decide that she is not into a guy too.)

Edited November 10, 2017 by Imajerk17

[jay1983]

It doesn't really matter, I've dated a couple of women who turn heads. That's just a couple of women and the experience was not so great. But that's neither here nor there. My point being, just because someone thinks there are no leagues, isn't magically gonna make hotter women attracted to him. People like who they like. Contrary to LS, women are not psychic, they don't whether or not you believe in leagues.

[CptInsano]

See here is the problem w the whole "leagues" thing. So what are these "leagues"? Are you the one to make the decision for HER, that she is "out of your league"? Do you even know what she is attracted to? Isn't she allowed to decide for herself whom she wants to know better too

 

That part I can fully agree with!

[CptInsano]

People like who they like. Contrary to LS, women are not psychic, they don't whether or not you believe in leagues.

 

At the same token, neither you and I are psychics. We don't know what triggers a woman to find somebody attractive. She may not even know herself.

[jay1983]

That's right, she's either attracted to you or she isn't. Regardless whether you believe in league or you don't. It doesn't matter.

[thefooloftheyear]

The bottom line is you can't worry too much about it...Control what you can control...And don't live your life in the hopes or with the sole purpose of making yourself appealing to the opposite sex...Usually the things that benefit a person the greatest on a personal level(taking care of yourself, living a clean life, being in a good career, etc) will put you in a higher league, or at least give you more opportunities than the next guy with women......

 

This is especially true as you get some years on you...Most guys at my age haven't seen their dick or their feet in years...Stand out from the crowd if that's what you are going for....

 

TFY

[Cookiesandough]

The thing is,you may think you're dating out of your league, but actually you are being used by that person. I think that's what ends up happening.

 

A lot of girls will date guys a few leagues below her because they are more likely to "worship the ground she walks on".I think I'm attracted to good looking guys but too good looking for this reason. I subconsciously like him to think he scored with me xD. But people can take it too far. Some people purposefully date someone who they know will be there anytime and put up with ANYTHING from them because they're so besotted. That's bad. I think that's what OP is alluding to but I'm not sure. Seems as if he knows she''s more interested so it's not as much effort to keep her around and now he's noticing he's discontent

Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[CptInsano]

The thing is,you may think you're dating out of your league, but actually you are being used by that person. I think that's what ends up happening.

 

Most guys I know have developed a pretty good filter for this type of behavior. I owe mine to a very attractive girl named Diane who flirted with me in high school, but only wanted to copy my homework. Unfortunately that filter produced too many false positives, and I almost rejected my last gf because of it.

 

That being said, it's sad to see people fall for somebody who is obviously playing them.

[Cookiesandough]

Most guys I know have developed a pretty good filter for this type of behavior. I owe mine to a very attractive girl named Diane who flirted with me in high school, but only wanted to copy my homework. Unfortunately that filter produced too many false positives, and I almost rejected my last gf because of it.

 

That being said, it's sad to see people fall for somebody who is obviously playing them.

 

True.

 

Sorry that girl cheated from you

Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough