From bad to worse ...

[GorillaTheater]

Lashing out in misdirected guilt seems like a plausible explanation. So does the possibility that she's lying. Once you get passed the immediate health concerns, that sounds like an excellent topic to hash out in front of a marriage counselor.

[Southern Sun]

Yes. Exactly. She said that her last tryst with him was extremely passionate and hot and she felt that he was really in to her and it turned her on. However, moments later, she became upset and she ended things despite the fact that he never said anything to her to alienate or upset her. She acknowledged that she became hostile and angry toward him and they never met or even spoke again. Indeed, from what I have learned, he never called her and he left her company shortly afterward. That is how they met. He worked with her for only two weeks before all of this happened. Then he was gone.

 

Something there doesn't make sense. That level of volatility toward someone, including him, would seem uncharacteristic of her.

 

Maybe it is possible that she went from being so into him and turned on to feeling like she was being used - that might explain it in my mind. Maybe something happened for her to feel that he was just using her as a piece of a**, as was noted above. However, she was at a loss to explain how she went from point A to point B so fast.

 

I struggle with that part.

 

I take it you are really interrogating her in order to get this level of detail from her. And this is from 15 years ago AND she is unwell. Correct?

 

None of us know what happened. We can surmise. Perhaps she was overwhelmed with guilt and became disgusted with herself and him and ended it on the spot. Perhaps something came over her and she suddenly realized she was being used like a plaything and she angrily ended things. Or, maybe she's being dishonest and HE ended things with her and that is what made her so hostile.

 

Maybe she isn't accurately remembering the timing of it all and that is what is throwing you. It seems strange to end things in a hostile manner just moments after a passionate encounter. Maybe she DID end things angrily. Maybe she DID realize what she had done and found it easiest to see him as the bad guy. But maybe it came hours later (when she went home with that heavy guilt), or even a day or so after. And her memory is not completely perfect.

 

Just some possibilities.

[JohnAdams]

Yes. Exactly. She said that her last tryst with him was extremely passionate and hot and she felt that he was really in to her and it turned her on. However, moments later, she became upset and she ended things despite the fact that he never said anything to her to alienate or upset her. She acknowledged that she became hostile and angry toward him and they never met or even spoke again. .

 

Anything in possible. However, I find this scenario highly unlikely.

 

 

It is more probable that after they finished, he said something to allude to the fact that she was just sex and he was not interested in a relationship. This in turn could have upset her and caused her to lash out at him.

[hammyy2k]

you were financially and socially viable plan B

 

and that's bugging you

[wmacbride]

Oops I cheated. Like tripping over something on the floor. You typically provide the best advice I see on this site... but I'm going to disagree with you here. It was no accident.

 

It wasn't an accident or a mistake. There is no proof the last 15 years she has been faithful. She admitted to 1 after a decade and a half. Maybe in another 5 years she admits to another.

 

Forgive and Forget is not acceptable. He deserves justice in some form.

 

 

This isn't about revenge, justice or anything else.

 

His wife is sick, and fwiw, breast cancer isn't some sort of easy road. Between the chemo, surgeries, losing your hair, feeling like crap all the time and just plain facing your own mortality, it's a really crappy thing to go through, especially when you are relatively young and still have a teen at home.

 

His wife had an "affair" ( if you can even call it that) before they were married. I'm not excusing that, but what I am saying is that the op and his wife have built a life together, and if she chose hm, it was because she wanted to be with him.

 

 

Btw, how about instead of men telling women how we feel, they actually LISTEN to them. I hardly think his wife sat down and coldly calculated " this guy is a better provider, so I'll pick him". My guess is that the op's now wife realized that the guy she had been with, even with sex factored into the equation, wasn't as good a match for her as the op was. In fact, it turns out that he was the guy she wanted to spend her life with.

 

She had options. She could have dumped the op and ran off into the sunset with this other guy. After all, it would have been easy, sh she wasn't married to him. Instead, she told the other guy to take a hike and she chose the op.

 

I'm not excusing her behavior, but I am saying that this was in the past, and it is not even in the same league as her having an affair. Trying to whip it up into something it was not is not helpful ( and before you write off what |i say because I couldn't possibly understand how it feels to be cheated on, I was a bs...my husband had an A)

[GoldenR]

I'm not excusing her behavior, but I am saying that this was in the past, and it is not even in the same league as her having an affair. Trying to whip it up into something it was not is not helpful ( and before you write off what |i say because I couldn't possibly understand how it feels to be cheated on, I was a bs...my husband had an A)

 

How exactly is this not in the same league as an affair? They were, as the OP put it, planning to get married.

 

OP was misled into marrying an unfaithful partner.

[Southern Sun]

How exactly is this not in the same league as an affair? They were, as the OP put it, planning to get married.

 

OP was misled into marrying an unfaithful partner.

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I don't think I saw the words "fiance'". Were they engaged at that point? That could be quibbling over details, but it is kind of an important detail. If OP is rewriting history himself, becoming ultra-sensitive about this because it was in the time before they got married (perhaps they were talking of becoming engaged and speaking about marriage, but it had not yet happened), then really, they were still just dating.

 

I know it doesn't make it hurt any less. But it DOES mean that this would be something his "girlfriend" did...as someone much less mature than she is now.

 

Even if they were engaged, people panic about getting married and make really stupid errors in judgment at the last minute.

 

The point of this post is that OP used the wording "preparing to get married." Not "engaged." Maybe for some cheating is a deal-breaker no matter the stage of the relationship. Others might see it as MORE of a deal-breaker when you are "just dating" (because if you can't be faithful THEN, when can you be??). I think we give young people an awful lot of responsibility and too much credit. Brains aren't even fully developed until around age 25. Literally.

[understand50]

 

I'm not excusing her behavior, but I am saying that this was in the past, and it is not even in the same league as her having an affair. Trying to whip it up into something it was not is not helpful ( and before you write off what |i say because I couldn't possibly understand how it feels to be cheated on, I was a bs...my husband had an A)

 

As one who was cheated on, before we got married, cheating is cheating. The pain is the same, and the repercussions last. Now the fact that this is just coming out, does cause problems. Ed, is now questioning everything. This is normal, and he will suffer doubts, and questions, again normal. Now he is faced with a sick wife, with a condition that is life threatening. He cannot work it out, talk out these things with her. He still has questions. From what I read, he will stay with her, love her and support her. This will be a large topic later, after she gets better. (God willing)

 

How exactly is this not in the same league as an affair? They were, as the OP put it, planning to get married.

 

OP was misled into marrying an unfaithful partner.

 

GoldenR, I will take some exception here, I did marry my cheating Girlfriend. She did tell me soon after she slipped, so I went into to it eyes wide open. We do not know, if Ed's wife had confessed right after what would have happened, but the idea that he would have never married her, we just, and Ed as well, do not know. He still may have married her, or not.

 

Also, Ed states, she has been a good and faithful wife, and that has to count for a lot here. Does one slip, set the path for the rest of the your life? I do not think so, we have too many examples that say otherwise. she was unfaithful, during their courtship. Sure this properly would have ended things, but it looks like their marriage has been good. I think we have to look at the whole.

 

I do agree with you, that this is a major thing, that will have to be worked out. It is just the timing of everything. Ed will have to play the long game here. One of my questions, is along your lines, is of being misled. If she was my wife, we would have to revisit, how we came to be. Each couple, has a "how we came to be, how we became a couple" story. Not that I would be looking to leave her, but I would be trying to understand just what really happened.

 

This does not mean that all the emotions Ed is feeling are not valid, or his pain not real. Not only, this pain, the the real possibility she may be gone and dead. That will have to be worked though, but later. If she dies, there is really no point. If she lives, they, as many other couples touched by cheating can go on, and find a good loving life together. This is when love and both husband and wife are tested.

 

I wish them luck.....

[understand50]

Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but I don't think I saw the words "fiance'". Were they engaged at that point? That could be quibbling over details, but it is kind of an important detail. If OP is rewriting history himself, becoming ultra-sensitive about this because it was in the time before they got married (perhaps they were talking of becoming engaged and speaking about marriage, but it had not yet happened), then really, they were still just dating.

 

I know it doesn't make it hurt any less. But it DOES mean that this would be something his "girlfriend" did...as someone much less mature than she is now.

 

Even if they were engaged, people panic about getting married and make really stupid errors in judgment at the last minute.

 

The point of this post is that OP used the wording "preparing to get married." Not "engaged." Maybe for some cheating is a deal-breaker no matter the stage of the relationship. Others might see it as MORE of a deal-breaker when you are "just dating" (because if you can't be faithful THEN, when can you be??). I think we give young people an awful lot of responsibility and too much credit. Brains aren't even fully developed until around age 25. Literally.

 

Do not quibble, it was still cheating.

 

It still hurts.

 

It needs to be worked out between them.

[knabe]

Guilt wouldn't make her talk about how good the sex was.

 

She. Was. High. On. Medication.

 

OP, you have made it clear you are staying. I would say, then, that whatever you absorb should encourage you to NOT embrace bitterness and instead embrace forgiveness and the present.

[eye of the storm]

When my xH had an outpatient procedure, I was waiting in recovery. The guy in the next section was going on about robbing a bank. He did it, he was so sorry he kept telling his wife. And he started crying that he was going to jail. After he came more out of the meds turns out he had gotten an extra 20 when he got cash and felt guilty he hadn't reported it.

 

 

The nurse told me she sees crap like that all the time. the meds screw with your brain. She said a lot of people quiz their significant others thinking that its like a truth serum, when instead it takes facts and fantasy and mixes them up. People confess to things they didn't do and exaggerate things they did.

 

 

I am not saying that she didn't have a fling. but if she was on meds, the description was probably way off.

 

 

I am so sorry you, your wife and your son are going thru this. All of it.

[GoldenR]

GoldenR, I will take some exception here, I did marry my cheating Girlfriend. She did tell me soon after she slipped, so I went into to it eyes wide open. We do not know, if Ed's wife had confessed right after what would have happened, but the idea that he would have never married her, we just, and Ed as well, do not know. He still may have married her, or not.

 

Also, Ed states, she has been a good and faithful wife, and that has to count for a lot here. Does one slip, set the path for the rest of the your life? I do not think so, we have too many examples that say otherwise. she was unfaithful, during their courtship. Sure this properly would have ended things, but it looks like their marriage has been good. I think we have to look at the whole.

 

Why are you taking exception? My post wasn't about you. What I said is true about the OP as he wasn't given the chance to decide if he wanted to marry someone that cheated on him.

 

You were given the option. He was not.

[GoldenR]

She. Was. High. On. Medication.

 

 

But what she said was true about her and her OM's sexual connection. Yes, I agree if she wasn't all high she wouldn't have said it. But she did say it and she isn't disputing the validity of it.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Golden, You may be right about the OP's wife confessing that her beau was a better lover than her husband and was more passionate and into her etc. However, she did not offer this information initially. All she did was confess to the affair. Once she had confessed the OP pressed her with a barrage of questions and in her dazed condition due to the drug high she confessed to more than she had wanted. The OP said that afterwards he could see that she was sorry she had said too much.

 

One cannot place complete trust on the veracity of her statement as it was made when she was under the influence of drugs. There may be a possibility that she exaggerated the incidents whereas in actual fact they may have been more muted. It is also possible that she expressed exactly how she felt about the encounters and there was no exaggeration. At this stage one cannot be certain and since she is not in a fit condition to be able to answer the OP's questions, he will have to wait till she attains a state of normalcy at which time he can pursue these questions with her. Since she knows she has revealed a fair bit of information about her affair she will now have to be up front in answering his questions whenever that happens. In the mean time we can only wish the OP the very best for the future and for the speedy recovery of his wife. Warm wishes.

[GoldenR]

One cannot place complete trust on the veracity of her statement as it was made when she was under the influence of drugs. There may be a possibility that she exaggerated the incidents whereas in actual fact they may have been more muted.

 

The OP hasn't mentioned that she is disputing the validity of what she said. Just that she wishes she hadn't said it.

[Ed15]

I do agree with you, that this is a major thing, that will have to be worked out. It is just the timing of everything. Ed will have to play the long game here. One of my questions, is along your lines, is of being misled. If she was my wife, we would have to revisit, how we came to be. Each couple, has a "how we came to be, how we became a couple" story. Not that I would be looking to leave her, but I would be trying to understand just what really happened.

 

You have captured my inner emotional world. I am struggling to understand why we are here, my narrative all these years is not reality, at least in some ways.

 

My wife gave me some clarity last night. She came to me and explained that, perhaps, her memory is faulty. She admitted, without prompting, that she didn't get angry and end things. She explained that, initially, things were very passionate and "he was really in to me. The kissing was amazing." However, when they had their second encounter, something in him changed as they were intimate. She got the feeling that he was just into her as a pure sex object, that he was just using her "as a piece of a**." She began to feel guilty, she thought of me, and she began to feel that she was nothing more than a "slut." Things ended and she made an excuse to leave. No anger, no argument. However, she left feeling that what she did was wrong. She never spoke to him afterward. He apparently got the impression that things were over because she avoided him like the plague. There is collateral evidence to support this. Shortly after, he left her company.

 

I can accept this and I feel that I can move on with this knowledge. It means I wan't crazy after all and my thoughts were correct. Had I known this, we would not be together. However, we have had a great 15 years. I will not throw it away, especially now. I have some sense of peace now.

 

However, the one thing I struggle with is that she reluctantly maintained, at least indirectly, that their encounter was more intense than anything we've had when we spoke last night. Just admitted that she is sorry she said it. However, she never took it back. Hard thing is, I am no vanilla guy. I have always taken a dominant role sexually with her. We've had a lot of fun, we've used toys, she's been excited and turned on when I brought her to a strip club, we've had adventures, and had some absolutely amazing sex. To me, it has been off the charts many, many times. I have never had better. When I look at it, I have to admit that I've given her the absolute best I can sexually, I've left nothing off the table, I've given it 110%. Yet, I am left with the feeling that I will never be able to complete with him sexually. She has tried to initiate sex recently, but I still have this bloody ED thing and I know it is because this guy, and my competition with him, is stuck in my head.

 

I understand what some women have suggested and I should note that I am not so filled with hubris that I assume I would be the best she has ever had. However, I never wanted to HEAR that I wasn't.

 

I am ready to move on. I feel I now know what I need to know. I will try to avoid speaking of this with her until such time that she, hopefully, recovers. However, how the hell do I get rid of this ED crap? Anyone ever struggle with this and get through it? I fear this is the new normal.

[GoldenR]

Ed, I really feel for you, brother. You've been put into the unenviable position of HAVING to rugsweep this. And that is not healthy mentally, emotionally or even physically. It also a lot of times leads to intense anger on the part of the betrayed at some point down the road. I fear that once your W is "out of the woods" your anger will surface.

 

Get IC immediately.

[Ana-Iva]

I can only offer you my experience with passionate relationship VS. genuine and loving relationships (or whatever you want to call them).

 

The best chemistry I had was with a guy who had the same effect on me like that guy had on your wife. Every touch was amazing. But the guy was a complete ahole, someone I could not ever love and respect as a human being and didn't have much to talk with. I knew that whatever chemistry we had was all we had. And I had a couple of them like that in my life, amazing connection in bed, not much more to us than that. When you break up with them - no love lost, moving on, it is for the best.

 

The best love relationship I had was also with good chemistry and sex, but also something much more deep and meaningful. The emotional connection! Understanding. Friendship. Conversations. Trust. Etc.

 

Years later when all of it is over, a women will remember the chemistry just objectively as something that happened in the past, and there will not be any feelings there. It is like remembering how your old car looked.

 

But when you think of someone you loved and still love, someone you spent life with and is your closest friend, there is something there that the chemistry guy can never ever compete with. You miss him deeply, you wish he were there... Chemistry guy is a one trick pony. It gets boring eventually if it is not supported by something meaningful and real.

 

You can have chemistry with any idiot out there. That is something you cannot control. She could have controlled how she reacted to it, but I recon she was young and didn't really have mechanism or experience with these things to know better.

 

I know that you are now focused on what it did to your ego, that someone is better than you in that department. Well, you know, a lot of men in the world would be better than you in that department. You cannot be best at everything, not even for your wife. But you must be a great package - it is really all about package. You seem loving and loyal and caring and she said your physical life is great too. Sounds amazing to me! I wish I had that with someone. It is easy to find chemistry, but it is extremely hard to find what you two have.

 

Forgive her. Love her. Know that when you two are intimate, she would rather be with you than with anyone else. She confessed because she felt guilty all these years. And, oh my God, good luck to both of you in your fight with cancer!

[GoldenR]

Telling the OP that it was just reeeeally good sex isn't gonna help much. In fact, it would have the opposite effect on most men.

Edited October 19, 2017 by GoldenR

[Just a Guy]

Hi Ed, I guess this is going to to slow burn through your mind for a long time and it is going to be difficult for you to just overcome it. Take your time over this and assess everything about your relationship from the very beginning. You may have to ask your wife when she is in a more stable condition, as to whether she valued you enough at the time to be fully committed to you, or was she open minded about seeking out a another partner while keeping you as the safe bet she could rely on in case things did not work out with anyone else. As a matter of fact, this is how it actually played out in real life. She tried out something with another guy while ostensibly in a committed relationship with you and found that he did not meet what she needed. She then chose you as the fail safe guy, married you and has built a happy and successful life with you. Had it not been for her life threatening disease she probably would have taken her secret to her grave and you would be non the wiser. She may even now be regretting having told you about it because of the pain she knows it has caused you. Probably, since she thought she was on her death bed, she felt that she should let you in on this distasteful secret which she had kept close to her chest all these years, so that she could go peacefully having made her peace with her Maker. I get the feeling that this terrible secret hung around her neck like the proverbial albatross, weighing her down in the privacy of her mind. By letting it out she probably helped her body recover from what was something that was preventing her from getting better. Whatever her reasons the fact is that it is all out in the open and the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Your only choice is to deal with this head on and take a call as to where you want to go with this.

 

I also want to give a slightly different perspective on the reasons why her experience with this guy seemed more passionate and full of fire. The thing is that going into the affair with him she knew that it was something wrong that she was doing. She knew she was in a committed relationship with you. So having an affair with him was a taboo act which by it's very nature made it risky and therefore more exciting and adventurous. In such circumstances her senses would be more heightened and attuned to experiencing greater highs than in the normal course when she was with you. So while her memory tells her that this guy was a sexual demon or whatever, in fact he may have been just another average or slightly above average Joe who managed to press all her buttons at the same time just because she was in that heightened state of excitement. In fact her obvious excitement may have acted as a catalyst to help him boost his own game so that he put up a better than normal performance with her. Also let us accept the fact that there will always be someone out there who is bigger and better endowed than you and who probably is a more skilled lover also. If you read on alternative lifestyle websites you will find that there are married women out there who search out men who are much better endowed and skillful as lovers than their husbands. They have their fun with these guys and then come home to their husbands. Of course they have their husband's consent to do this but the point is that at a fundamental level they love their husbands and their families and except for the temporary high that they get from someone better accomplished than their husbands, they are well aware which side their bread is buttered. I have highlighted this point so that you can maybe accept the fact that your wife just had a short lived fling which seemed out of this world to her at the time, but knew that that would never be a satisfying replacement for what she had with you. I agree with you that she should have confessed to her transgression at that time itself to give you a fair chance to decide whether you would marry her or not. She probably knew that you would bail and she did not want that. It is up to you how you handle this going forward.I sincerely hope some of this helps you as I know you are hurting and have been placed in an unenviable position. I agree it is completely unfair. Warm wishes.

[Ed15]

Many thanks for the opinions and help in processing this. Just a Guy, thanks for this viewpoint. Ana-Iva, I also appreciate your insights. I wish my wife could have stated things just as J.A.G. noted just above. It would really help me heal.

 

I will try to process this and support my wife in her recovery.

 

Thank you to all. IC is not an option for me because everything I do right now is work and my wife's treatments. I can't talk to friends or family at all because of the nature of this stuff. Consequently, this forum is all that I have. Thank you for letting me vent and offering me the help I so desperately needed!

[knabe]

Ed, all I can say is that I admire your almost non-existently rare character and ability to look past your ego and a ruler. Your wife is supremely lucky to have you.

[BetrayedH]

I think it’s important to somewhat compartmentalize the affair and the cancer. I can empathize with what she’s going thru but it doesn’t grant her a free pass.

 

I have trouble with the “15 years of a good marriage” comments. The cold reality that the OP needs to face is that she’s lied for all of those 15 years. And yes, she denied him the opportunity to make an informed decision about whom he married. Her lies don’t get better with age and she is not who he thought she was for all of those years. It’s the same difficult reality all BSs have to come to grips with. This is just like any other affair recovery. It takes true remorse and years of work. He won’t be able to wish this away, even in his desperation to do so.

 

It’s going to be extra difficult since the OP needs to, at least temporarily, rugsweep even in the face of his very normal need to get all of the details so he can process his new reality.

 

On the positive side, nothing speaks to true remorse more than a voluntary disclosure. And I actually applaud her willingness to honestly answer questions, even the ones with the most painful answers. They may be able to continue in an authentic marriage after this. It also appears that she’s been faithful throughout the marriage, even if she hasn’t been honest.

 

Good luck, Ed.

[BetrayedH]

Side note: for the ED, get some Cialis. Sex after an affair is hard enough that you don’t need to compound the problem by adding equipment issues.

 

I also couldn’t keep my head in the game and had very distracting and awful thoughts during sex with my W after discovering her affair. The ED only made me even more self-conscious. Getting Cialis didn’t solve all of the problems (I still had mind-movies) but it did eliminate one problem and that helped to restore some of my confidence. Eventually I was able to perform just fine without them.

[Ed15]

Hi BetrayedH,

 

Thanks for your comments. You are correct - my w and I will be revisiting this issue at some point down the road, if all goes well. I still have a ton of questions and concerns, but, as you noted, now is not the time for them.

 

I did get Cialis this weekend. Stuff works like magic - until we start kissing or making love. Then I get the head movies, as you noted. I keep replaying them together and I begin to question how I compare to him when kissing or making love. Last thing I want to do when I am with her is think about him, but i just can't stop these thoughts and it brings the ED right back. This then makes it worse, because I realize he wouldn't have this problem - he would have pleased her, he wouldn't doubt himself, he'd be rock hard and so into it/her etc etc etc. Nasty circle, makes it harder and harder each time.

 

Hopefully time, and some IC later down the road, will help this. Thanks!