Can a narcissist change?

[lindya]

Originally posted by JS17

The scariest part is....he's a Social Worker (MSW)!!!!

 

I wonder if he went into social work purely so that he could meet female social workers??? With that whole empathic, patient and non-judgemental philosophy they're supposed to have, I'd imagine that social workers would be the ideal supply source for narcissists!

[JS17]

Originally posted by lindya

I wonder if he went into social work purely so that he could meet female social workers??? With that whole empathic, patient and non-judgemental philosophy they're supposed to have, I'd imagine that social workers would be the ideal supply source for narcissists!

 

I could give you a dissertation on him but it's funny, I never thought of it as a supply source! lol

He wanted to help people, and by help people I mean he wants to prove that he's better than them

 

P.S. He was finishing his Masters when we were together and he decided he wanted to be a High School Social Worker because he liked the hours and vacation time. Lord help our future generations!

[lindya]

Originally posted by JS17

 

He wanted to help people...

 

Help them learn how to worship at his feet and tell him how wonderful he is

 

Seriously though, look after yourself. When you've been involved with someone like that, it's not like a normal relationship break up. People might start getting frustrated with you because you don't seem to be getting over it.

 

Until recently, my ex and I had a couple of mutual friends. I've completely distanced myself from them now - and I have to say, that's helped hugely. You can't prevent people from bitching or sniggering about you, and it does no good to keep hearing about it. His friends know he's odd, of course, but in their eyes that just makes me stupid for having got involved with him. And, of course, a lot of people will always believe, in situations like this, that it's the woman who's f***ed up in the head. I've stopped beating myself up about that - it just isn't worth it.

 

The relationship lasted for a few years, and what I've noticed is that lately I'm starting to think about things from the past - ie things that happened before I met him. In a way, it's as if I'm re-connecting with the person I was before him. With, hopefully, the added benefit of experience.

 

You'll be fine - and Sweet Julia, so will you. It just takes a bit of time to get back to the person you were before the wrong guy poisoned things for you. You can't let people like that destroy your life...but make sure you familiarise yourself with some of the warning signs to lessen your chances of getting involved in something like that again.

 

Can't believe how much I've posted about this, but it's a bit of an issue for me.

[cole]

I hate reading these posts because they are so RIGHT ON!

 

If you enjoy ramming your head full force against a titanium wall, repeatedly, then narcissists are the way to go, but ... I'll let the visual speak for itself.

 

And, yes, these guys (or girls, as the case may be) are charming as anything you'll ever meet in your life, but they gotta be, if they want to survive.

 

My ex is not the person that our friends know - he is NOT THE SAME PERSON to them, because, if he was, he wouldn't have any friends. It's so weird. I was actually frightened by this realization pretty early in the relationship, but I refused to listen to my intuition. I didn't want to believe that there was something seriously wrong with this great guy who seemed so geniune.

 

Narcissists will suck you up, and spit you out, but not into the trash. Hah. You should be so lucky!

 

No, they'll keep you nearby, in a spot where you won't dry up completely, probably next to a few other mugs and such that are kept for the same purpose.

There you'll sit, slowly evaporating towards freedom, disappearing from their collection day-by-day.

But they know this ... SO ...

Every so often they'll check on you, to make sure you're still there, and possibly take a swig if they're feeling a bit parched - only to spit you right back out, replenishing the receptacle with fluid to keep you around a bit longer.

However, you will never, never, never, satiate them, and once they get thirsty enough they'll just run out to the store and sweet-talk themselves some new jugs. : )

 

Harsh, but ... dating a narcissist is worse.

 

Thank you all so much for reminding me what these types can be like, I was about to make a very dumb decision to liven up my Friday night.

YIKES.

[Jeannie]

My ex was this way - here's how I dealt with it and got out.

 

After a year of being with him I realized he was self absorbed and the only person he'd ever want to please in his life was himself. I saw the red flags the first month I was with him - it was my fault for allowing myself to go further. He began by talking incessantly about himself - how great he was, how many woman he'd been with and how he could get any woman he wanted. I laughed it off thinking he was just talking b.s. and I actually made fun of him. We fought constantly because his arrogance and ego would piss me off - I'd walk then he'd beg me to take him back. I realize he liked the challenge I presented.

 

This guy was so full of himself. When we had sex he'd stare at himself in the mirror and get off to watching himself. He never tried to please me. He constantly was staring at other women while threatening me if I ever considered cheating on him I'd have hell to pay. He belittled me for not cooking him more dinners, not spending more time with him, not catering enough to his needs.

 

It was a pathetic relationship that went on and off for two years. Finally I just shut myself off from him completely and did things intentionally to make him angry so he'd break up with me. Finally he did and it was my way to get out. If I broke up with him he'd beg and plead and want me back.

 

I got rid of him by treating him the way he treated me. His final words to me were "You don't care anymore" and I said "No, I really don't".

 

He'll always be too in love with himself to love anyone else. It blew me away how self absorbed he was - at the times it was so laughable and I'd make fun of him - and he'd give me this dear in headlights look like "How dare you laugh at me". He was pathetic - and he really thought he was important and God's gift to women.

 

All he did was make me wanna barf and run the other way. What was sad about the whole thing was he did have a good side to him and if he put aside the ego and fake act and was himself - he actually could have been a decent guy. At age 47 he's gone thru 3 marriages and many shortlived relationships. No hope for this dude or any other person who is selfish, self absorbed and narcissistic - they'll never change.

[lindya]

Originally posted by Jeannie

This guy was so full of himself. When we had sex he'd stare at himself in the mirror and get off to watching himself.

 

That's grim. Mine didn't do that, but I would say that even though we must have had sex over 200 times, I can safely say that we never made love (other than on a couple of occasions when he was inspired by chemically induced love). Outside of the bedroom he was very sweet and affectionate. I soon learned, however, to never be emotional during sex. He'd try to respond, but there was just something missing, so I focused on keeping our sex life fun because that way we could at least stay connected on some superficial level.

 

He was a huge Woody Allen fan. Here's a borrowed - and paraphrased - line I heard more times than I care to remember:

 

"I'm a wanker. I like being a wanker. It means I can have sex with my favourite person whenever I feel like it."

 

The fact that he used to make jokes about his ego prevented me from thinking that there was a genuine problem. As you say, I just treated it as BS or attempts at humour and laughed it off. I've since learned to pay more heed to the content of people's comments rather than allowing myself to be led by the tone. Many a true word said in jest, and all that.

[SweetJulia]

I read narcissists sometimes have pedophile tendencies. It feeds their narcissism.

 

Have anyone experienced this.

 

My ex used to download underage porn, as young as 11 or 12 y old.

 

I have a very hard time getting over everything in the relationship.

[Tony]

"I read narcissists sometimes have pedophile tendencies."

 

Some narcissists may even be murderers. After all, they are subject to what other human beings may be subject to as well. However, there is no evidence that pedophilia is a part of the narcissistic personality disorder, according to psychologists.

 

The Catholic Church has spent hundreds of millions of dollars settling lawsuits from adults who claim they were once fondled and molested by priests. However, that is no indication that all or most priests are pedophiles. Fact is, the very greatest percentage of the clergy are quite honorable and loyal to their religious training and oaths.

[Jeannie]

My ex wasn't a pedophile - I don't think.........come to think of it he liked teen porn but preferred women his age or older. Who knows what these freaks are into - they're not normal to begin with.

[cole]

Well ...

 

I've viewed the porn sites that my ex likes to look at (some people never erase their history files - tsk tsk tsk ). He was horrified that I would ever ask him if he looked at porn online (I never told him I saw the evidence first-hand, and I'd know he was full of it even if I hadn't run across the websites he'd surfed - guys are more visual, they tend to enjoy that stuff more than women).

 

Well, anyway, he liked his real women like he liked his fantasy women - hairless.

 

Doesn't mean he's a pedophile, but ... he liked his women to look like girls. That's probably saying something, though I'm not sure what it is!

[JS17]

I noticed that mine liked very young women, teenagers not pre-teens, but he also went out with someone 12 years older than us right before me. So I'm not sure if that says anything but I was shocked once when we were in a store and he commented on a girl being hot and she couldn't have been more than 15 or 16. Many men like teenage women so I don't think it has to do with his narcissistic tendencies. who knows?

[Outcast]

I suspect it has more to do with them being generally emotionally immature.

[SweetJulia]

I just feel like i hate life

[cole]

Oh Julia! Don't hate your life!

 

You did nothing wrong! Loving someone, faults and all (and EVERYONE has faults!), should include loving yourself. You deserve to treat yourself the way you think others should be treated.

 

Some people just don't get that. You are SO LUCKY that you have the capacity to love and care for others.

 

You love this man more than he probably loves himself. He will gain so much from your care, even if he never is fully conscious of it. You, on the other hand, can revel in your strength and heart.

 

It's tough, having emotions, but ... they make your life more beautiful, don't you think? I know I do.

 

You rock.

[Mermaiden]

Originally posted by cole

 

 

My ex is not the person that our friends know - he is NOT THE SAME PERSON to them, because, if he was, he wouldn't have any friends. It's so weird. I was actually frightened by this realization pretty early in the relationship, but I refused to listen to my intuition.

 

Yes, yes and yes !

 

 

Same experience here.

 

Right now, I'm dealing with the fact that my ex BF and I will never remain real friends because of his colossal egomania.

 

Other people view him as the most charming, loveable SoSweetYouCouldThrowUp gentleman.

True Jekyll and Hyde.

 

I think if I told anyone how he could turn his wrath on me they'd be astonished.

Right now he is playing the victim telling people that I wouldn't remain his friend and help him with 'little things'

, when truth is I stood up to him and told him I'd be his friend but not his unpaid maid/gopher.

Such crazy-making !

I'm seriously considering moving away just to get out of the grasp of his demented wrath.

[SweetJulia]

anyways, I'm not dating anyone anymore.

 

all you get is deception and hurt.

 

i have no trust in human kind.

 

people lie and cheat all over.

all you need is Internet and you're in.

all that matters is sex for Friday night, Sat afternoon, etc.

with as many partners as your face and body can get you.

[Outcast]

Life isn't that bad. You can't let one bad experience with a troubled person sour you on all people and all of life. From this you needed to learn to be more careful about who you go out with, yes, but not that there's nothing good about the world. If you have been feeling this way for a while it's time to get yourself to a doctor and get treated.

[lindya]

Originally posted by SweetJulia

anyways, I'm not dating anyone anymore.

 

all you get is deception and hurt.

 

i have no trust in human kind.

 

people lie and cheat all over.

all you need is Internet and you're in.

all that matters is sex for Friday night, Sat afternoon, etc.

with as many partners as your face and body can get you.

 

 

A trip to your doctor and consideration of a few counselling sessions might be useful. Also, please thing about taking up a new sport that you haven't tried before - or booking a few refresher lessons in some kind of sport that you played as a kid.

 

Your mind wants to keep you in a dark and gloomy place right now, so it's going to be hard to organise and motivate yourself to do anything other than cry, listen to sad songs and analyse the relationship you've just come out of. You know that's not good for you though, and you're going to really need to fight the temptation to self destruct.

 

You start getting your confidence, optimism and zest for life back when you take up and develop a new skill. Hobbies aren't a replacement for love, but they do serve as a reminder that life isn't about romantic relationships 100% of the time...which, btw, is a good thing to remember when you're in a relationship too.

[SweetJulia]

I'm seeing a counsellor.

It helped in the beginning but now no more.

 

I'm a very athletic person, but know I don't feel like doing any of the sports I used to do.

 

I'm not crying or playing sad songs, I'm way past that. I'm just bitter.

Bitter about all the lies, bitter about myself, about life.

 

I don't care about anything anymore.

[lindya]

It's a really s*** thing to go through, I know. I went horse-riding a lot when I was recovering from my one. I find horses are so therapeutic to be around (as long as you stay away from the biters and kickers that is). I really mean it when I say you need to rediscover the person you were before you met this guy, and it's not always as easy as it sounds. You will have adapted things about yourself to meet his needs...and there's a lot of stuff you're now going to have to unlearn.

 

You'll be in shock and a bit numb just now, and that doesn't go away overnight. You can think you're recovering, then a small setback will send you into a pit of gloom....so think of yourself as someone who hasn't been well and is following an active programme to aid her recovery. That might involve going on autopilot for a while and plugging away at "fun" activities even when you don't feel like you're getting much out of them.

 

Seriously. Set yourself a goal that you'll complete over the next week. Just as an example....a trip to an art exhibition that's on just now - the goal being to read up about the artist in advance so that you can get the most out of the exhibition. Your heart might not be in it, and it might be really difficult to summon up the motivation to go...but in the long term these efforts really aren't wasted. One step at a time, feeling like you're going nowhere for weeks - months even - and then suddenly it starts coming together. Keep going. There's no alternative that bears thinking about.

[cole]

Set yourself a goal that you'll complete over the next week. Just as an example....a trip to an art exhibition that's on just now - the goal being to read up about the artist in advance so that you can get the most out of the exhibition. Your heart might not be in it, and it might be really difficult to summon up the motivation to go...but in the long term these efforts really aren't wasted. One step at a time, feeling like you're going nowhere for weeks - months even - and then suddenly it starts coming together. Keep going.

 

Lindya, I think what you've said is right on, and something that I've been struggling with myself.

 

I - and I imagine most everone else wants this too - miss the strength of the feelings I had when I was with my ex and expect whatever it is I do to "replace" that lost love must give me those same feelings. But the feelings I had/have for my ex didn't sprout up in a day, or a week - it took time. Just like anything else I decide to devote my time, energy, and passion to (I love horse-back riding too, and it has been my savior on more than one harrowing occasion - I'm working to get back into it as I write this).

 

It's incredible how quickly we can move on once we choose to, but we must choose to do it - I think that's the hardest part. Saying good-bye to a defective, negative, but wholly encompassing part of our lives and welcoming in new aspects that may not be just what we're hoping for, but COULD be. Trial-and-error. Just like meeting someone.

 

Thanks Lindya!

[lindya]

Originally posted by cole

Lindya, I think what you've said is right on, and something that I've been struggling with myself.

 

I - and I imagine most everone else wants this too - miss the strength of the feelings I had when I was with my ex and expect whatever it is I do to "replace" that lost love must give me those same feelings.

 

Thanks cole - and what you said afterwards really hits home. It's so easy to dismiss other activities on the basis that any buzz you get out of them can't compete with the feelings you got from the relationship. When I was a kid, I was so happy and active....and I got pleasure out of all sorts of simple things. I'm starting to remember what that feels like, and it really is about time. I'm not through with men (hopefully) but I'm certainly through with making any partner the focus of my undivided attention and efforts. One of my problems has been that unless someone sparks off near obsessive feelings in me, I don't think any relationship with them will be a goer. Completely mad and self-destructive....particularly as those obsessive feelings are often sparked off by very unhealthy mind games.

[NewLee40]

I've finally come to realize that my recent ex was a narcissist, but that realization should have come alot sooner because I was married to one for 8 years.

 

Narcissists, I've realized are not all alike, the underlying pathology is the same, but their overall personalities can be way different. My ex husband was one of those dynamic, charm your socks off kind of people. Very charismatic, people loved him, life of the party. Totally believed his own press - thought his own **** didn't stink. No one in the world would have believed the abuse he meted out at home. I smiled knowingly when the one person pointed out her narcissist ex was a social worker....mine was a minister. But, when you think about it...what better place for a narcissist to be than at the head of a church...

 

But, I digress..

 

It took me nearly 10 years to recover from all the damage that relationship did to me. I did get involved with relationships, but for the most part I chose safe, non-threatening ones that still weren't right for me. I never really opened my heart to anyone. Eventually, I just gave up all together and drew into myself, focused on my own life, went back to school, got my degree, lost 120 pounds, and got to a really happy place in my life. My future was so bright, I had to wear shades. LOL

 

So, Ok, now I'm ready to date again. Woo hoo! New woman, new body, new life, new attitude.

 

And what happens? Right out of the gate, I fall in love with a raving narcissist and spend the last year of my life living in hell.

 

I didn't recognize him at first because he wasn't suave, debonair, or charming. He was just a seemingly, decent down-to-earth, hardworking man. He had such a self-deprecating way about him that I missed the signs that he was as narcissistic as my ex husband was.

 

He lied and lied and lied. Just like my ex, he would lie when the truth would have been easier to tell. The longer I knew him, the more it was apparent that his thought processes and issues were exactly the same as those of my ex...

 

-The instinct to lie as the primary instinct

 

-The tendency to blame everyone else for what is wrong in their lives

 

-A lack of empathy for anyone elses pain

 

-An incredible talent for using twisted logic and making it seem perfectly reasonable (ex. I lie because you don't trust me)

 

-Explosive anger

 

-The need for attention and ego feeding

 

 

 

'm sure there's more, but that's all I have for now.

 

A key difference between my ex husband and my ex boyfriend was that my husband never apologized for anything because nothing was EVER his fault. My ex boyfriend, just pulled out the "I'm sorry" card whenever it was convenient.

 

The question is, after I've come so far....how in the hell did I let my digress to the point that I was the insipid little woman always believing the best, always hopeful, always forgiving....when I knew better?

[cat000]

No, take it from me they cannot change. My boyfriend is currently the victim of a narcissistic ex-wife. She has alienated him from his children and charged him with abuse - both to her and the kids and won't let him see his children. She is on benefits and abuses the legal system as she has no limit to her budget. He, on the other hand, works full-time and has no money whatsoever as he still pays the mortgage and matrimonial loan on the home.

 

So if you are still involved with a narcissist I would advise get out when they least expect it as they will be so evil you will not be able to comprehend.

[AmberAriesMom]

Will a narcissist ever change? YES! That's the problem with them! They change every time they think they're about to lose the person they are using! They keep you on a never ending emotional roller coaster ride. That's the only thing about them that never changes.