It IS finally over. But now what?

[freengreen]

Good for you freengreen. I'm so proud of you - you got there girl, and I'm sure you went to hell and back.... But you stuck at it!

 

This girl is a great role model for you kjrrg. She had pain on the same level as yours...... and look at her now, feel the strength and recovery in her posts. She may not be 100% there yet, but boy what strides she has made.

 

You can too. You HAVE to. Give yourself time to recover. You WILL get there.

 

*Grins* thanks Jerkins .

 

Never imagined role modelling this way.. but sometimes *shrugs*. Wanted to make our OP feel that he isnt alone and we are actually getting him when he says something.

[jenkins95]

*Grins* thanks Jerkins .

 

Never imagined role modelling this way.. but sometimes *shrugs*. Wanted to make our OP feel that he isnt alone and we are actually getting him when he says something.

 

Yes! I'm sure you never imagined being a role model in this way and never would have chosen to be! But the fact is, you are an inspiration and support from people like you is exactly what the OP needs. Keep it up freengreen - you are doing great!

 

Hang in there kjrrg!

[Kjrrg]

Thank you so much. Groundhog day is exactly what it feels like. I toss and turn and dream about her. Even when I don't, the mornings are the worst. But you have both been there, I am sure everybody here has, and you are still moving along. I hope to get there too. I did contact a couple of therapists (I have never been before) so we'll see what happens there. But I will keep posting. And I am thinking of you guys too. You are very inspirational at times when I feel like I need to stop talking about it to people I know because I'm sure it is annoying. But I can't stop feeling how I feel. I don't know too many people if any at all that have gone through a heartbreak like this.

 

It ****ing sucks. Everything sucks right now.

[Kjrrg]

Another thing that sucks is that I now know that I will be wondering about her for the rest of my life. Even if I well and truly get over it, I am sure I will always think...what is she doing right now? How is she? Should I message her since it has been x amount of time? Her kids are grown up now, is there a chance? Even though we would be much older at that point (especially her, obviously) I told her I don't regret anything that happened with us and that I wouldn't change it for anything, but on days like today I absolutely want to forget about her. I wish it had never happened.

[jenkins95]

at times when I feel like I need to stop talking about it to people I know because I'm sure it is annoying.

 

Hey again K. I know what you mean here. When the first person I fell in love with dumped me, I was a total mess for months. My best friend was very supportive for the first few weeks. The next few weeks he went a bit quiet on me...and when I was still talking about it to him 2 months later, he actually got annoyed with me and said something like "You're still not over it? Come on now, time to move on. Just forget her."

 

I was humiliated and felt so let down. I never mentioned it to him again and while we are still friends to this day, something changed in our friendship that day. I'm not so open with him any more and I don't share my inner thoughts with him to anything like the same extent.

 

Sorry, I'm threadjacking here - but you saying that jogged this memory in me. You see, that friend had never been in love at that point, so he couldn't possibly understand. To him, my loss was something like losing some money or breaking an arm. He couldn't understand that the depths of hurt that come from lost love are so far beyond any material loss.

 

But we do understand it Kjrrg! We understand what you are going through and we are here for you. As long as you need support, there will be someone here at LS.

 

Keep posting - even though it may not feel like it, it is doing you so much good!

 

And yes, from your later post, you probably will always wonder about her. But the point will come when these thoughts no longer hurt you and just develop into something more like curiosity.

 

It's hard to believe right now at rock bottom, but so many people have felt what you feel and have recovered.......and you will too! Take some comfort in the fact that you are not alone and what you are experiencing is quite normal given what you went through. When you find happiness again, imagine how sweet it is going to taste.

Edited May 23, 2017 by jenkins95

[Kjrrg]

Same with my brother. He just asked the other day, you over it yet? Nope. But he just doesn't understand.

 

What I don't understand is how someone can be unhappy enough in a marriage to cheat, but when given the option to leave they instead stay. Did you not see this coming? I think you did. She said many times that she wished HE would leave. Or that she could tell him about me and keep their relationship open while co-parenting. All bull****. When it came down to it she chickened out. Kids or not, if you wanna leave that badly you can. And it's not like she hated the guy. She said "70% of the time he is ok". Not okay enough to stay faithful. Not okay enough for you to not tell me how much you love me and want to be with me. Oh how I wish I could get inside of her head.

 

I wonder what sort of threats he laid down to her after D Day. How do you let yourself get so involved with someone else and in the end throw it all away? Did I really get used? It wasn't all about the sex. We had a deep connection, friendship, and EA as well. Just how.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Kjrrg

[FoundMyStrength]

Kjrrg -- I think there are a lot of things that keep them there. Before my affair I was in a very LT decade plus live in relationship. While we loved each other, there were a lot of issues and, frankly, unhappiness for both of us. Why did we stay probably an extra 4 or 5 years despite being unhappy?

 

- comfort and routine

- stability

- fear of change

- fear of being alone

- having to figure out (again) who you are as a solo act

- memories of better times, and hope for them to return

- feeling like a failure

- sunk cost fallacy, so much time invested for what?

- fear of losing the person forever, as so many ex's do

- moments of reconnection that provide so much hope

- fear of disapproval from family, friends

- not wanting to cause pain to the person you love

 

The list goes on and on. My experience is that it takes extraordinary courage to say, "I love you, but this just isn't working. It's time.". I've done it twice with two men I love and have managed to stay friends. But it is ridiculously hard and requires a lot of introspection, self awareness, communication and love to make it anything but another s**t show of a divorce. I imagine this is what MM/MW go through as well, perhaps your MW too.

[Kjrrg]

That is all probably true. I just wish I had been worth the courage. She was for me when I ended things with my ex. But maybe I am a ****ing moron.

[jenkins95]

Look

Kjrrg -- I think there are a lot of things that keep them there. Before my affair I was in a very LT decade plus live in relationship. While we loved each other, there were a lot of issues and, frankly, unhappiness for both of us. Why did we stay probably an extra 4 or 5 years despite being unhappy?

 

- comfort and routine

- stability

- fear of change

- fear of being alone

- having to figure out (again) who you are as a solo act

- memories of better times, and hope for them to return

- feeling like a failure

- sunk cost fallacy, so much time invested for what?

- fear of losing the person forever, as so many ex's do

- moments of reconnection that provide so much hope

- fear of disapproval from family, friends

- not wanting to cause pain to the person you love

 

The list goes on and on. My experience is that it takes extraordinary courage to say, "I love you, but this just isn't working. It's time.". I've done it twice with two men I love and have managed to stay friends. But it is ridiculously hard and requires a lot of introspection, self awareness, communication and love to make it anything but another s**t show of a divorce. I imagine this is what MM/MW go through as well, perhaps your MW too.

 

Excellent post FMS. That list is endless. Here are just a few more.

 

- if there are kids involved, this adds another dimension. Fear that you could be messing up their lives, that you will end up seeing much less of them or that they will never look at you the same way again and probably hate your OP play a lot on married people's minds when contemplating divorce.

 

- shared assets. Houses, possessions, etc. Splitting all that stuff up can be heartbreaking, not to say very financially costly. And finances are another thing - divorce, separation can be financially ruining. My grandfather had a very successful business, but he died penniless thanks to two divorces.

 

- a sense of shared history.....I guess this goes hand in hand with sunk cost fallacy from FMS's list.

 

- doubts that life could/should be any better......Perhaps most marriages are dull like mine? Perhaps it's normal? Perhaps if I meet someone else, it would end up like this or worse after the initial infatuation wore off? Perhaps I'm better off just sticking it out here?

 

In general, I agree with FMS that it takes a very bold, determined person to walk away from all of that, even if their marriage is far from perfect.

Edited May 23, 2017 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

That is all probably true. I just wish I had been worth the courage. She was for me when I ended things with my ex. But maybe I am a ****ing moron.

 

Out of interest K, how long were you with your ex? Do you have kids? Sorry if you've already answered this elsewhere. Perhaps she just had more to lose than you from walking away from her H?

[Kjrrg]

You guys are totally right. She never had the guts to do any of that and I guess I understand why. She wanted HIM to leave. "I wonder where he is going to live" was something she said once. Then it turned into oh **** where am I going to live if I date kjrrg.

 

She definitely has more to lose than I did. No kids, not even married, together ten years. Got along just fine but no sex, broke, living somewhere that wasn't ideal...I started feeling trapped despite my love for her. MW on the other hand has a nice house, school right behind the house, intertwined families and finances and she is someone who cares what people think. I mean, I am too, but she is worse.

 

So I guess I answered my own question. Still. Why even get involved?!?! She is the one that started it all, said she had been "stalking" me online beforehand, tracked me down on Twitter and was the first one to start sending suggestive pics. I pushed after that of course but she started it all. God damn it why.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Kjrrg

[freengreen]

Kjrrg -- I think there are a lot of things that keep them there. Before my affair I was in a very LT decade plus live in relationship. While we loved each other, there were a lot of issues and, frankly, unhappiness for both of us. Why did we stay probably an extra 4 or 5 years despite being unhappy?

 

- comfort and routine

- stability

- fear of change

- fear of being alone

- having to figure out (again) who you are as a solo act

- memories of better times, and hope for them to return

- feeling like a failure

- sunk cost fallacy, so much time invested for what?

- fear of losing the person forever, as so many ex's do

- moments of reconnection that provide so much hope

- fear of disapproval from family, friends

- not wanting to cause pain to the person you love

 

The list goes on and on. My experience is that it takes extraordinary courage to say, "I love you, but this just isn't working. It's time.". I've done it twice with two men I love and have managed to stay friends. But it is ridiculously hard and requires a lot of introspection, self awareness, communication and love to make it anything but another s**t show of a divorce. I imagine this is what MM/MW go through as well, perhaps your MW too.

I agree to all of it...kudos.

 

Its all biology until the math comes in. Kjrgg, your MW might be in pain too, cant strike that out BUT she knows that if she chose you she is going to lose more than what she is losing now. She did the math and she chose this for you.

 

We cannot make someone choose us. Sometimes, we have to make choices according for us to move forward because eveyone else is doing it and we will be left behind and waste our life over them, and they arnt even stopping for us. But, this isnt the end of your story, its just a chapter .

 

why she did all this in the first place?.... ONLY she knows the answer and thats her secret.

Edited May 23, 2017 by freengreen

[bluefeather]

Another thing that sucks is that I now know that I will be wondering about her for the rest of my life. Even if I well and truly get over it, I am sure I will always think...what is she doing right now? How is she? Should I message her since it has been x amount of time? Her kids are grown up now, is there a chance?

 

Wow, you're being very dramatic. If you're actually serious about everything you just wrote here, you might as well forget about ever meeting anyone to start a loving relationship with. Because you would be doing the next girl a disservice to be thinking of this woman for the rest of your life.

[FoundMyStrength]

I agree to all of it...kudos.

 

Its all biology until the math comes in. Kjrgg, your MW might be in pain too, cant strike that out BUT she knows that if she chose you she is going to lose more than what she is losing now. She did the math and she chose this for you.

 

We cannot make someone choose us. Sometimes, we have to make choices according for us to move forward because eveyone else is doing it and we will be left behind and waste our life over them, and they arnt even stopping for us. But, this isnt the end of your story, its just a chapter .

 

why she did all this in the first place?.... ONLY she knows the answer and thats her secret.

 

Freengreen has an excellent point about the math behind their decisions. As our EA hit full steam, xMM started asking very pointed questions about the next steps in my schooling and career and the moving about that that would entail. He never would admit it, but I believe he was doing the math. Go back to wife and stable life or stay with early career moving about new affair partner. My math was too complicated. There's a part of me that sort of believes he may have chosen differently if I was staying in my current location. But being with me would entailed two moves in two years akin to what he'd just pretty unhappily been through with his wife.

 

Sometimes the math is just that simple. If I met him two years from now, maybe the math is in my favor. But at this point, I'm too complicated to make me worth it.

 

And that sucks horribly for us. But I don't believe xMM is the only person I can ever love, so when I feel ready, I'll be open to finding that person. You will too.

Edited May 23, 2017 by FoundMyStrength

[freengreen]

Freengreen has an excellent point about the math behind their decisions. As our EA hit full steam, xMM started asking very pointed questions about the next steps in my schooling and career and the moving about that that would entail. He never would admit it, but I believe he was doing the math. Go back to wife and stable life or stay with early career moving about new affair partner. My math was too complicated. There's a part of me that sort of believes he may have chosen differently if I was staying in my current location. But being with me would entailed two moves in two years akin to what he'd just pretty unhappily been through with his wife.

 

Sometimes the math is just that simple. If I met him two years from now, maybe the math is in my favor. But at this point, I'm too complicated to make me worth it.

 

And that sucks horribly for us. But I don't believe xMM is the only person I can ever love, so when I feel ready, I'll be open to finding that person. You will too.

right as a right angle. Its not over until you label it.

[jenkins95]

freengreen and FMS, you are spot on with the maths stuff. I hadn't looked at it that way before, but I did exactly this myself. Of course, I wouldn't have put it in those terms at the time because it sounds so horrible and cold, but deep down, that's exactly what I did.

 

And thinking about it, it is exactly what we all do whenever we have a decision to make - a simple decision like what to have for lunch (my maths on that one is normally skewed towards pizza rather than salad!), or an enormous life changing decision - like when you are involved with two people and have to pick one.

 

So where does love fit into this cold calculation? Well, it is simply one of the variables in the maths! Nothing more or less. And there could be very many variables in the calculation. Some people put more weight on love than others. For some people, it is obvious in their posts that the variable of love trumps and overrides all other factors. But for many, it is just another variable with no more or less weight than any other. From having read tens of thousands of these kinds of posts, I would say that it is more often women that place the love varaible high in the sky trumping everything else, and most often MM for whom it is just another variable to be considered alongside all the others.

 

Eventually it all boils down to an equation. From the MM point of view, the W is on one side of the equation and the OW is on the other side. The equation is then resolved and one side comes out on top.

 

For me, the W side of the equation was very simple arithmetic, whereas the OW side of the equation was like nuclear physics - complexity, uncertainty and risk everywhere. Simplicity won out in the end.

 

Whilst it feels awful to use maths as a metaphor in something that affects us so profoundly at every level and so deep down in our hearts, the metaphor actually fits pretty well.

 

In kjrrg's MOW's case, I think the most weighty variable was probably the 3 kids. This certainly was a huge factor in my thinking. Right now, kjrrg would accept the MOW on any terms, including the baggage of the 3 kids. He would do this without question, it is clear from his posts. But I suspect that years from now he will be glad that he didn't become entangled in this complex mess. Perhaps she also thought of you in this and didn't want to make your life so complex and messy by entangling you into her complex family and all the fallout and baggage that goes with it?

[freengreen]

That is the whole point of an affair... it never takes real parameters. Affair is 'magic' until someone does the math and pulls a houdini (forever) and the other partner still expects them to come out of the box one day...

[jenkins95]

That is the whole point of an affair... it never takes real parameters. Affair is 'magic' until someone does the math and pulls a houdini (forever) and the other partner still expects them to come out of the box one day...

 

Yes, and this is why we often talk of a 'bubble'. It is immune from the normal laws and logic and the expectations of civic society and it does feel like 'magic'.

 

Physicists tell us that there are likely to be parallel universes out there, where the laws of physics are completely different to our own universe. An affair bubble is kind of like a parallel universe in the same way - it has it's own set of laws and is immune to the real world.

 

But then one day the bubble is burst and the APs are suddenly exposed to the same set of rules and parameters as the rest of the world. This is where the maths kicks in and, as we see here, few affairs survive beyond that point - however amazing they felt when that bubble was intact.

[Kjrrg]

She really is the most beautiful woman I have ever been with. She is so funny. We clicked months ago, when we were barely acquaintances before all of this. But once the A started it felt like nothing I have ever felt with anyone else before and it wasn't just because of the forbidden nature of the A not to start at least and I know that to be true.

 

I miss her sense of humor. The way she looked at me. That smile and her laugh. Our all day conversations. How ****ing quick she was with a line, or a reference, anything. She really became my favorite person in record time despite the things that weren't so great. I miss everything about her more than I can ever describe. It still feels like I'm missing a part of me. I woke up feeling okay today. I didn't even cry. Not until writing this post. Then just a few tears.

 

I know that all of you are correct when it comes to doing the math. I can't even come close to offering what she has in her current life. Her and her husband have deep roots. They have been together for so long. To be with me for her would be taking so many steps backwards, in her finances, socially, with her family. I am sure the reality of the situation was too much to bear despite all of the talk of our future.

 

I'm already glad that I have not taken on her extra baggage, or truly interfered with her children's lives. But I would do it right now, today in a heartbeat. I would do anything for her to be with her if I had to. I don't care how hard it would be.

 

I am left in the dust but it is of my own doing. I hurt my ex so much more than this hurts me, I am sure. But this is what I deserve and I'm going to be miserable about it for a long, long time. Because I know myself and my inability to let things go.

 

I'm sorry for this rambling post. I just had to get it out here.

[Kjrrg]

On the flip side, I do realize that I also terribly miss how she made me feel about myself. I have never, EVER had any self-esteem. She made me feel like a king. One time I walked into work in the midst of the A, and one of my co-workers remarked, "Wow, you just walked in like you own the place". That's because I ****ing felt like I did. I felt like I owned the whole world. To finally be sexually desired by someone else (especially someone whom I had such a crush on) was something I never thought I would experience in my life. MW was only the third person I have ever had actual intercourse with. I don't know if I can describe to those of you who I am sure have had much more experience what it is like to feel unwanted but it is something I have always had issue with. With my ex of ten years, our sex life was NEVER great. Right away it died a death and that's just how it was going to be. That's why I wanted an "OPEN RELATIONSHIP". I thought I could handle having the love from my ex, and the sex from somewhere else. Well, the first chance I got to actually start being intimate with somebody else, I dropped her on her ass. I don't know what that says about me or how I feel about my ex just yet.

 

So while this realization doesn't diminish my true feelings for my MW, I understand that there is also my ego and other factors at play. I don't think I'll ever have somebody that I am so attracted to physically and even emotionally feel that way about me again, or that will be able to make me feel that way about myself. This is just based on the fact that for 34 years this has not happened before. How can I be confident that it will again?

Edited May 24, 2017 by Kjrrg

[jenkins95]

Hi K!

 

Another groundhog day again I guess? Keep going, and then one day, you will wake up and it will be different - just like what happened with Bill Murray!

 

I do feel that your posts are more philosphical and accepting and a little less filled with pain than yesterday? Just a little?

 

I really hope so and I'm still thinking of you.

 

J

[Kjrrg]

Thanks Jenkins. Still in tremendous pain but it is a bit less. I'm really starting to think about the whys now. Not that I'll ever get a real answer.

[Kjrrg]

Haha. Thanks Jenkins. Still in loads of pain but it is a bit less. I'm really starting to think about the whys now. Not that I'll ever get a real answer.

[bluefeather]

I don't think I'll ever have somebody that I am so attracted to physically and even emotionally feel that way about me again, or that will be able to make me feel that way about myself.

 

Everybody says this. I've some good news for you: Hardly anyone knows what they're talking about. That's right, be happy that you're probably only being ignorant! There is a caveat, though. If you keep fearing something, you can attract it.

[donbar]

I've been lurking and reading with interest. Jenkins story is so like mine, although he confessed all and I will not. But I completely get your situation K. I had an A on and off (what other way is there?) for 2 years and the OW finally had enough. It has been awful because I feel about her exactly the same way you feel about your OW. The friendship, beauty, feeling on top of the world, love, sex, but also the dreadful downside of guilt and misery and sadness.

 

I saw the OW 3 weeks ago and it truly sucked. It was at work and she looked at me like I was toxic. It broke my heart again. But as the time goes by I realize that her actions speak loud and clear, as does your OWs. She doesn't want to be with you even though she loves you and now YOU HAVE TO come to terms with this. It sucks but I have accepted it.. I still dream of her, and I still love her, but it gets just a little easier week by week. This is not a thing that improves daily.

 

Accept the fact that it will hurt. Let yourself have a good weep, then look in the mirror at yourself. I did this on numerous occasions and the pathetic individual who stared back at me was startling. Not someone I wanted to be. Not someone my OW wanted.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world. Falling so deeply in love is hard when it cannot be. I feel a little stronger now, and I wish for you the same.