I Came So Close: Confusion in the Aftermath [UPDATE]

[BaileyB]

It feels like you are looking for a guarantee that nobody can give you... Nothing in life is guaranteed. All relationships are a risk.

 

There are things about this woman that attract you. There are also things that clearly concern you. Only you can decide if this woman is worthy of your trust, if she is worth the risk.

 

I will say, she wouldn't be worth the risk to me because I value things that she has not demonstrated - fidelity, honesty, trust, etc... these core values are very important to me, which is why I would never choose to have a relationship with this woman.

 

I do wish you well.

Edited July 22, 2017 by BaileyB

[Zolatola]

But how can you be so sure? Some people do change. She is in therapy, she ended the relationship with her now ex fiancé, she is taking time to herself away from me to work on herself, and she hasn't promised me anything of the future. I feel like she is trying hard to be honest with herself for once. She still has some work to do and I don't feel she's quite ready for me yet, but she is demonstrating an interest in working on herself and making things right. Of course, maybe it won't work out after all, but I don't get the sense that she is thinking that she would like to set up a relationship with me only to destroy it. She does want a family, kids, a faithful marriage, the whole thing... Yes, I do worry that if she doesn't come to terms fully with why she uses lying as a form of self-preservation and find healthier ways to live that she will inevitably destroy any relationship she has (infidelity or otherwise), but my sense is that she is sincere in her efforts to change. So I ask again, how can you be so sure? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm honestly curious why you feel that way. I want to hope that things could possibly work, but I also know there's a chance they won't. A lot remains to be seen is the way I'm thinking.

 

Because a lack of intuition got you into this mess. The fact that now your intuition is right is unlikely.

 

You'll just end up being the next person she cheats on.

[sandylee1]

Of course!

 

But am I crazy to feel insecure that she wants to stay in contact with her ex who doesn't know the truth about her cheating with me again when/if she is officially with me?

 

You're not crazy at all for feeling that way. I think the the thing is, if she ended it and told him she wouldn't be speaking to him ever again, that would sound kind of odd to him.... As he's not done anything wrong.

 

I think a better position to take for her, would be telling him the truth in so far as, she's developed feelings for you (as he already knows about you) and that's why she couldn't marry him.

 

She doesn't have to tell him she's been seeing you again.

 

If nothing else, that will be an eye opener about opening up your relationship and the possibility of your partner falling for someone else.

 

I'd hope that in time she'll stop contact with him. I wouldn't want her to remain in contact with him, if I were you either.

 

From what you've said, even though she has cheated, I don't think she's a person that feels comfortable cheating. The guilt gets to her and she confessed to him (hope I'm not mixing you up with someone else).

 

Not all cheaters feel comfortable with it. They don't feel true to themselves behaving that way.

 

I do believe people can change. If you're both going to make a go of it, I'd advice couple's counselling.

 

I don't believe there is a place in your relationship for her Ex, based on everything that's happened and if she insists that she wants to be a friend of his, then you're best walking away from it all.

[TunaInTheBrine]

You're not crazy at all for feeling that way. I think the the thing is, if she ended it and told him she wouldn't be speaking to him ever again, that would sound kind of odd to him.... As he's not done anything wrong.

 

I think a better position to take for her, would be telling him the truth in so far as, she's developed feelings for you (as he already knows about you) and that's why she couldn't marry him.

 

She doesn't have to tell him she's been seeing you again.

 

If nothing else, that will be an eye opener about opening up your relationship and the possibility of your partner falling for someone else.

 

I'd hope that in time she'll stop contact with him. I wouldn't want her to remain in contact with him, if I were you either.

 

From what you've said, even though she has cheated, I don't think she's a person that feels comfortable cheating. The guilt gets to her and she confessed to him (hope I'm not mixing you up with someone else).

 

Not all cheaters feel comfortable with it. They don't feel true to themselves behaving that way.

 

I do believe people can change. If you're both going to make a go of it, I'd advice couple's counselling.

 

I don't believe there is a place in your relationship for her Ex, based on everything that's happened and if she insists that she wants to be a friend of his, then you're best walking away from it all.

 

This all sounds pretty legit and on par with what I've been thinking and feeling.

[MJJean]

I can't comment on her being friends with her ex fiance. I simply don't do friendships with ex's nor would I date anyone who does.

 

Last I checked, friends were honest with each other. If she refuses to tell him the truth what kind of friendship could they possibly have, anyways?

 

My exH is S. DH is M.

 

During my "marriage" to S I had multiple affairs. If I was seeing someone, I didn't hide it. S knew about most of my APs, but not all. After a while, I figured he knew I was routinely unfaithful and the details weren't his business.

 

I met M, love at first sight, within 3 months I was ending the "marriage" to be with him. I told S that I was in love with M, that we'd been having an affair for a month at that point, and that I wanted a divorce. After that, M said he wanted me to tell S about the APs he was unaware of as a condition of us moving forward as a couple. So I did.

 

You have the right to set whatever conditions and boundaries you wish. She can accept them or not as she pleases.

[TunaInTheBrine]

I can't comment on her being friends with her ex fiance. I simply don't do friendships with ex's nor would I date anyone who does.

 

Last I checked, friends were honest with each other. If she refuses to tell him the truth what kind of friendship could they possibly have, anyways?

 

My exH is S. DH is M.

 

During my "marriage" to S I had multiple affairs. If I was seeing someone, I didn't hide it. S knew about most of my APs, but not all. After a while, I figured he knew I was routinely unfaithful and the details weren't his business.

 

I met M, love at first sight, within 3 months I was ending the "marriage" to be with him. I told S that I was in love with M, that we'd been having an affair for a month at that point, and that I wanted a divorce. After that, M said he wanted me to tell S about the APs he was unaware of as a condition of us moving forward as a couple. So I did.

 

You have the right to set whatever conditions and boundaries you wish. She can accept them or not as she pleases.

 

The tricky part I feel is they have some mutual friends. How did you navigate this in your new relationship while keeping respectful distance from your ex?

[sandylee1]

@MJJean

 

I don't see the point of you telling your Ex once you announced you were divorcing him.... After all he was happy to remain married while you cheated.... Why rub his face in it and tell him about more of your APs.

 

That just seems cold to me, especially because you were done with him. You were already leaving for another man.... I don't get it.

 

What was his reaction when you told him?

[TunaInTheBrine]

After my engaged partner broke up with her fiancé, she asked me for space so she "could grieve and figure out what it is that she needs." She agreed to contact me in a week. Its been 9 days and so far I haven't heard anything from her. It is typical of her to delay things, so I'm starting to think I might potentially be on hold for several more weeks. Meanwhile, I'm barred from dating and meeting new women who might actually want to be with me while it's unclear whether or not this woman is going to decide to be with me at all. It doesn't feel fair.

 

Tonight, I am struggling with the distance. I worry that if I reach out to her and ask for an update on where she's at that she might think I'm not respecting her need for space and push me away. On the other hand, I worry that if I don't say anything at some point, then it may be a long time before I hear from her. I do understand her situation and would like to give her space, but I also have needs too, and I'd like it if she followed up with me as she said she would.

 

The way she ended things with her fiancé was that she didn't tell him she had been seeing me again and wanted to stay friends with him. Some people on this forum, including myself, speculated that this could be a backup plan for her in case we don't work out. I wish I knew where she was at with her relationship to him, how she is feeling about us, and whether or not I am just living my life on hold indefinitely.

 

In any case, I fear that if I contact her I'll suffer because it will push away, and if I don't contact her I will still suffer but in silence. Either way, it seems like I'll suffer here.

 

I just want to know where she's at like she said she would let me know at the specified time. Is this too much to shoot for? And for how long should I wait before I reach out to her? I feel like she was holding all of the power during the affair and now after her split from her fiancé. I feel like since I contributed to this mess (i.e. their breakup) that I should suck it up and just wait, but I'm also a person with feelings and I feel like I'm living my whole life on hold for someone/something that wants distance.

Edited July 26, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[Origin]

Giver her space and she will reach out when she ready. One thing is for sure, if you start being pushy she will certainly pull away from you. After 1 week if you don't hear from her, send her flowers and let her know you're thinking of her and if she needs anything you'll be there for her and that if she needs more time you'll be understanding.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Giver her space and she will reach out when she ready. One thing is for sure, if you start being pushy she will certainly pull away from you. After 1 week if you don't hear from her, send her flowers and let her know you're thinking of her and if she needs anything you'll be there for her and that if she needs more time you'll be understanding.

 

I don't know, Origin. I wonder if she would still take my initiating contact as interfering with her 'space'. Interesting idea though.

 

I can't help but wonder if I'm just fighting a losing battle. The last time I saw her a week and a half ago when she broke up with the fiancé and said she needed space for a week, she held back a great deal in the kiss, and said "goodbye" when I was walking out the door. Over a week has passed and nothing from her so far. I don't think she liked that I told her that I would not feel comfortable if we were in a relationship and she maintained a friendship with her now ex fiancé.

 

So like I said, I have no idea what she's up to, what she's thinking, how her life is going... not a clue. And I'm starting to feel foolish about assuming that she is choosing me at the end of all of this. Even after the breakup with her fiancé, our relationship remains ambiguous and the power in her hands.

 

Maybe it's not so much a question then of when to reach out to her as much as it is when do I assume that for her this is just not going to work right now, give up, and start healing myself so I can move on and date other women?

[Birdies]

I'm going to repost my reply from the first page. I think it is becoming more and more relevant.

 

I would be wary of too much hot and cold. When our marriages ended, it was incredibly difficult in so many ways (and obviously more so for our spouses ), but we never had doubts about each other. We knew we needed to address our own issues and that unexpected emotions would surface through the process, but I never felt unsure of how he felt about me and our future, or vice versa. If she is too much on the cold side, it might indicate that she just isn't ready to hop back into a relationship, or that she thinks you might be a great AP but not a permanent partner.

 

I think you would be wise not to assume that the two of you will end up together. Nothing she has said OR done should give you that assumption. To me, this sounds like 1) she is sugarcoating her feelings because she doesn't want to hurt someone she cares about and is trying to let you down easy, OR 2) she is unsure of what she wants in this new life and needs some time to figure it out - which may or may not include you.

[TunaInTheBrine]

I'm going to repost my reply from the first page. I think it is becoming more and more relevant.

 

I would be wary of too much hot and cold. When our marriages ended, it was incredibly difficult in so many ways (and obviously more so for our spouses ), but we never had doubts about each other. We knew we needed to address our own issues and that unexpected emotions would surface through the process, but I never felt unsure of how he felt about me and our future, or vice versa. If she is too much on the cold side, it might indicate that she just isn't ready to hop back into a relationship, or that she thinks you might be a great AP but not a permanent partner.

 

I think you would be wise not to assume that the two of you will end up together. Nothing she has said OR done should give you that assumption. To me, this sounds like 1) she is sugarcoating her feelings because she doesn't want to hurt someone she cares about and is trying to let you down easy, OR 2) she is unsure of what she wants in this new life and needs some time to figure it out - which may or may not include you.

 

This all makes sense to me. But what am I supposed to do about it? I don't think I'm okay with living my life on hold or at the mercy of her uncertainty for much longer.

[BTDT2012]

This all makes sense to me. But what am I supposed to do about it? I don't think I'm okay with living my life on hold or at the mercy of her uncertainty for much longer.

 

You live your authentic life, not a life on hold.

[Birdies]

This all makes sense to me. But what am I supposed to do about it? I don't think I'm okay with living my life on hold or at the mercy of her uncertainty for much longer.

 

Well, that's up to you. You need to do a cost-benefit analysis and decide how long it's worth it to you to hang on to her emotionally.

 

Personally, I'd give it another week or possibly two to see if you hear from her. Write out all the things you need to know in order to commit to trying to move forward with her. If you do hear from her, ask her those things and don't stop until you get (what appear to be) sincere and thoughtful answers. And ultimately, trust what she DOES, not what she says. If all of these things don't happen.... well, I think you'd have your answer.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Well, that's up to you. You need to do a cost-benefit analysis and decide how long it's worth it to you to hang on to her emotionally.

 

Personally, I'd give it another week or possibly two to see if you hear from her. Write out all the things you need to know in order to commit to trying to move forward with her. If you do hear from her, ask her those things and don't stop until you get (what appear to be) sincere and thoughtful answers. And ultimately, trust what she DOES, not what she says. If all of these things don't happen.... well, I think you'd have your answer.

 

Thank you. I was actually journaling earlier today and noted another week and a half - three weeks out from the request for space. I like your idea of writing out all of the things I need to know from her and looking at what she does. Unfortunately, I have a feeling I'm not going to get what I'm in need of. Then again, I never thought she'd leave her fiancé and she did, but maybe I will ultimately have acted as the catalyst for what she already had wanted to do about their relationship more than being the one she wants to be with.

[sandylee1]

I'd give her a full month and if I didn't hear from her, I'd move on and wish her well for the future. Because my interpretation of the lack of contact would be she isn't sure I'm the one, so best to make a clean break and I'd ask that she doesn't contact me again.

 

As a woman, I wouldn't wait that long to hear from a guy, but in order to give her space and satisfy yourself a month is good.

 

If she can't be bothered to get in touch in a full month, you may have to accept that it wasn't meant to be and she's probably too 'messed up' to make a decision on what she wants right now.

 

Sounds like you have potential options, so don't let her mess you around.

[Steve51]

The last time I gave space, I gave her 47 years. That was my ex fiance. I do not want to be with a woman who needs space because marriage is real crowded.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Sorry to keep prattling about this, but I just have to say...

 

It drives me nuts how she wants such certainty and assurance from me that my feelings are devoted to her, that I won't leave her for illegitimate reasons if we're a couple, that I won't abandon her, etc... yet she can't give me any certainty at all in return. Like, if she really wants to be with me, why would she not be able to give assurance in return? Conversely, if she wasn't sure/didn't want to be with me, why would it feel so important for her to need assurance from me?

 

This really is all starting to drive me nuts. It's getting to the point where I almost don't care what happens anymore and I just want to be done with it. There comes a point where I'm no longer living life for me, and I'm also starting to feel very resentful toward her for not following up in the specified time she said she would (not uncommon of her).

[whichwayisup]

DO nothing. She asked for space so give it to her. It's not up to you to decide how much space she needs and then invade her after a week because you miss her and are having withdrawals. She will contact you when she feels it's right for her. If you care about her, respect her wishes.

 

Get busy and focus on your other friends and family.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry to keep prattling about this, but I just have to say...

 

It drives me nuts how she wants such certainty and assurance from me that my feelings are devoted to her, that I won't leave her for illegitimate reasons if we're a couple, that I won't abandon her, etc... yet she can't give me any certainty at all in return. Like, if she really wants to be with me, why would she not be able to give assurance in return? Conversely, if she wasn't sure/didn't want to be with me, why would it feel so important for her to need assurance from me?

 

This really is all starting to drive me nuts. It's getting to the point where I almost don't care what happens anymore and I just want to be done with it. There comes a point where I'm no longer living life for me, and I'm also starting to feel very resentful toward her for not following up in the specified time she said she would (not uncommon of her).

 

Then break up with her and tell her to only contact you in 6 months or whenever her life is calm and she's actually ready to date openly and is free to do so.

[lana-banana]

Let me get this straight: despite not being in a romantic relationship, she has power over whether you date other women? And she can't say she actually has any intention of dating you?

 

You have been in a state of limbo with this woman since the very beginning and she has done little to indicate she has any intention of healthy change---in fact, per your post above, she is still dawdling and effectively stringing you along, all while insisting you remain in the wings if she decides to grace you with her presence. What is it going to take for you to stand up for yourself?

 

It brings to mind one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard, which I first encountered on these forums but is applicable in a wide range of places: this all ends when you say it does.

[sandylee1]

I think you really need to question whether she's a suitable partner for you.

 

I totally understand how you're getting to the point of not caring, all while she sorts her head out.

 

I couldn't do what you're doing, because the waiting around would start to seriously piss me off to the point of not wanting to be a part of this anymore, but I'm not particularly tolerant in these situations.

 

Perhaps after a ten year relationship, she isn't ready for another relationship. Yet she is seeking reassurance from you, which is probably a sign of abandonment issues and a fear of being alone.

 

That's probably what led her to stay in the relationship so long as even though things weren't great between them.

[elaine567]

Frankly I think you are on a hiding to nothing.

A woman who is truly in love does not need "space", especially that due to splitting up with her "roommate" ex.

 

A woman who is in love with you would be breathing a sigh of relief she got rid of the bf, and would be revelling in dating and living with you full time and not just the part-time arrangement you had when she was cheating on the bf.

I think she may be feeding you BS here.

 

I note you wrote this in May

I worry that she will "accidentally" find herself on a slippery slope to infidelity with one of her several attractive male friends who she enjoys hanging out and connecting with. #1

That would be my concern here too.

 

None of this fills me with any hope that it will work out well for you.

Sorry!

[Origin]

Don't assume things. I mean it is strange, some of the things you say so proceed with caution. I had the same thing happen to me, left fiancé, moved out, all of that but that's when it got worse., REALLY worse. Our stories are incredibly similar so I am really following yours and what you're writing about.

 

Good luck and keep your guard up. This is not a sure thing just yet my friend.

[TunaInTheBrine]

We're meeting up in an hour. I'm going to figure out once and for all a direction to take. I can't do things this way any longer.