Cannot support my sisters affair

[Whoknew30]

To save your BIL I'd definitely have a one on one with your sister & tell her if she destroys his reputation as a good man, you have no option but to tell the truth. At least give her a moment to try & do the right thing & then make your decision how you'll proceed.

 

Remember, a lot of BS are going to state to just tell, with no regard to how you want to proceed a relationship with your sister. It's your sister & your relationship you'll have to deal with in real life...things sound good & right on paper, until you have to actually live it. Good luck bc it sounds like a dreadful situation you didn't ask for

[Zona]

Sometimes love needs to be tough love, especially with waywards. If you love your sister, you'll make sure that her deeds are exposed to everyone in your family, including the STBXH. That is the only thing that could shock her back to reality. She is obviously in affair fantasy land.

[Timshel]

If I were in this situation, I would stand down. As much as any person thinks they understand an intimate familial relationship, no.

 

I would say to sister that I disapprove, that I care about all parties involved and that frankly, this is messed up. Therefore I am removing myself. When it's sorted and you have your head on straight sis, call me and we'll lunch. Till then, hasta luego.

 

Don't be distracted/moved, she is living her life. You will only help her by being firm and sure of yourself.

[l8estnews]

If I were in this situation, I would stand down. As much as any person thinks they understand an intimate familial relationship, no.

 

I would say to sister that I disapprove, that I care about all parties involved and that frankly, this is messed up. Therefore I am removing myself. When it's sorted and you have your head on straight sis, call me and we'll lunch. Till then, hasta luego.

 

Don't be distracted/moved, she is living her life. You will only help her by being firm and sure of yourself.

 

I totally get this point. But I have a problem with this and I want an answer if anyone can shed light to it.

 

What I understand is that since "I am your sister, I will voice out my concern but since this is none of my business, I shall just be hands off to it....."

 

Now my question:

 

Isn't this some form of "bystander effect?" What about ethics? You knowing that there are people hurting because of 1-2 people's actions and you doing nothing because of what grounds again? Complex familial relationship?

 

I am seriously asking and I am quite confused.

 

Don't be distracted/moved, she is living her life. You will only help her by being firm and sure of yourself.

 

And by living her life, she's also destructing other people's lives. Am I really missing something here? Or is it really too complex and me being inexperienced that I can't absorb the situation clearly?

Edited July 24, 2017 by l8estnews

[LivingWaterPlease]

Haven't read the entire thread, just the first six or seven posts. But, the point of talking to your sister is not to effect her behavior now. I have no illusions that will happen.

 

The point is that in the future (who can say how long?) your sister is going to crash and burn. You have stated your deep relationship with her and your talking to her at this point and being clear about where you stand is tough love.

 

There may. I say, "May," not guaranteed, come a point where your sister is flat on her back and because of your courage in taking the step to confront her now she will respect you and realize that you were really on her side when you confronted her. Therefore you may be able to help her in the future thereby salvaging your family relationships.

 

Whereas if you only expose her to your family, though it may not be seen by all on the forum as superfluous, useless and NOT as betraying your sister, in her twisted mind (she'll be twisted still when she's flat on her back eventually, which she most likely will be given her behavior now) she may view it as betrayal and you may not be able to help her then thereby losing the opportunity to help restore your family.

 

This is a complex situation from the stance of restoration which, imo, should always be the goal of healthy human relationships. That is not to say I expect she'll remarry your BIL at some point but merely to point out acting in a way that best sets the stage for healing in your family years down the road is preferable for your families' long term health.

 

"Sure, yes! She's a mess. Expose her, she's messed up. She won't listen, yada, yada!"

 

No, use a little wisdom and finesse here instead of knee-jerk reactions. No, she won't listen. That is not the point. Restoration is the point. It is a long term goal. Twenty years is going to happen to your family whether your sister is restored and healthy in your family or not. Why not behave in such a way that your family can be the best possible unit in twenty years (or whatever) rather than being a bull in a china closet now and ruining any chance of reconciliation for her in your family years down the road. And, no, I doubt she'll ever be married to your BIL again.

 

Know this needs editing, don't have time! But, urging you to protect your family, including your sister who has lost her good sense. It'll take courage. Yes, she will turn on you now. Yes, it will be hard. That is what it means to have character, do the hard thing for someone you love IF it is the right thing, which I believe confronting your sister is.

[Jersey born raised]

You have to learn from your past. Your sister has clearly told you who she is, remember this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/familial/family/227573-my-sister-has-really-let-me-down

 

Point blank: has your BIL ever physical harmed your sister? If the BS might physically lash out that is the only reason not to inform them. Noticed I said BS not BH. I took a guy to the hospital once as his girlfriend had beaten him with a skillet. Not a mark on her though.

[knabe]

No, use a little wisdom and finesse here instead of knee-jerk reactions. No, she won't listen. That is not the point. Restoration is the point.

 

I actually think you make some very good points, Living Water. But surely you have learned by now that restoration is not typically a high priority with topics like this. "Burn baby burn!" is the most common goal.

 

I think a loving but FIRM talk with the sister, with an "I cannot sit by, so if you do not tell your husband I will" addendum is a good way to go. That way the door is open BUT a man and kids aren't living in the dark.

[QuietDan]

Most waywards have a tendency to rewrite the history of tge marraige and exagerate the relationship problems in order to justify the affair and alleviate guilt. Did you witness the abuse, or here your sisters version of events? What sort of abuse? Yelling? Screaming? Name calling? Physical abuse? Recent abuse? Or remembered events from long ago? Was he micro managing her spending snd a where abouts? Or is she acusing him of abuse because he questioned her where abouts, activities, phone habits, money spent? So, what constitutes yelling? A serious tone? Slightly elevated voice? Or, the neighbors can hear him calling her derogatory names after he discovered text messages and naked pictures of her sent to the other man? After 30 years of marriage did your soon to be ex brother-n-law have a long time known history of abuse? Most men who abuse woman start that at an early age. Most men who do not abuse woman typically do not start to abuse woman when they are in there late 40's or early 50's. By now...actually long before now... If he was an abusive man/husband, it is eventually discovered or figured out by most of the immediate relatives within the first 10 or 20 years.

[Timshel]

I totally get this point. But I have a problem with this and I want an answer if anyone can shed light to it.

 

What I understand is that since "I am your sister, I will voice out my concern but since this is none of my business, I shall just be hands off to it....."

 

But what else can she do l8estnews? Should she slap her, interrogate her sister to tears? Should she disown her and say, 'I'll never speak to you again.'

Op says that she and her sister have been close, until now. Her sister is going through something that op can't control or amend her conscience. The only response is distance. I love you and I do not understand your choices at this time....Space.

 

Now my question:

 

Isn't this some form of "bystander effect?" What about ethics? You knowing that there are people hurting because of 1-2 people's actions and you doing nothing because of what grounds again? Complex familial relationship?

 

I am seriously asking and I am quite confused.

 

No, it is not 'bystander effect.' This is a familial dynamic. I am not suggesting that op remain passive. By clearly laying out 'I am not ok with this,' and laying the ground work for a positive relationship, the op is being proactive and at once acknowledging that this is not her show. This is not her test, it is not on the op to coddle or cajole her sister to do the right thing.

 

It isn't. None of this shenanigans lay on the OP's shoulders except to say to family and someone she loves, this isn't the relationship that I want with you, one that involves deceit. So I'm gonna walk until and unless we are free of lies in our relationship. Period.

And by living her life, she's also destructing other people's lives. Am I really missing something here? Or is it really too complex and me being inexperienced that I can't absorb the situation clearly?

 

darnit, the response in bold.

[l8estnews]

I think a loving but FIRM talk with the sister, with an "I cannot sit by, so if you do not tell your husband I will" addendum is a good way to go. That way the door is open BUT a man and kids aren't living in the dark.

 

I prefer this option, too. I got what Timshel's trying to say above but, this one is better than just walking away. I mean, if I am doing something wrong, I would really like it if someone will do everything they can to stop me from doing it. I would really be thankful forever for that person and to say that "OMG, if you didn't slap me from reality, I don't know what I would've done, so thank you so much!"

 

Although, Timshel's approach is also totally understandable since it's diplomatic, and seems respectful, but after everything is said and done, still, walking away seems a bit off to me. I believe at that moment, I am involved with the drama. My brother in law is also my brother. Just in law. Get what I mean? What about his pain? If I was that guy, and I learned that my sister-in-law knew something and didn't say anything about it, would I immediately think that "hey, I understand, she's your sister?" I think I would say "How can you do that to me? How can you let me suffer? We are also family, right?" and I might even accuse her of conniving and tolerating her sister's behavior. I mean, if miraculously everything went well with me and my wife, I might not see my SIL in the same light again.

[LivingWaterPlease]

 

I think a loving but FIRM talk with the sister, with an "I cannot sit by, so if you do not tell your husband I will" addendum is a good way to go. That way the door is open BUT a man and kids aren't living in the dark.

 

 

Exactly! To the point!

 

Don't slink away cowardly by acting anonymously and/or doing nothing.

 

Don't take a hammer and a crowbar to the situation destroying any chance your family ever has of rehabilitation/restoration.

 

Approach with wisdom, courage, finesse.

Edited July 24, 2017 by LivingWaterPlease

[Timshel]

Exactly! To the point!

 

Don't slink away cowardly by acting anonymously and/or doing nothing.

 

Don't take a hammer and a crowbar to the situation destroying any chance your family ever has of rehabilitation/restoration.

 

Approach with wisdom, courage, finesse.

 

Lol, if OP threatens to tell everyone and follows through, hello hammer and crowbar.

 

I'm not into threatening people. Wisdom would tell me, personally, stay out of my sister's marriage.

[LivingWaterPlease]

If I were in this situation, I would stand down. As much as any person thinks they understand an intimate familial relationship, no.

 

I would say to sister that I disapprove, that I care about all parties involved and that frankly, this is messed up. Therefore I am removing myself. When it's sorted and you have your head on straight sis, call me and we'll lunch. Till then, hasta luego.

 

Don't be distracted/moved, she is living her life. You will only help her by being firm and sure of yourself.

 

Lol, if OP threatens to tell everyone and follows through, hello hammer and crowbar.

 

I'm not into threatening people. Wisdom would tell me, personally, stay out of my sister's marriage.

 

No Ma'am, (or Sir, not sure) Nowhere in my post did I suggest threatening.Have posted twice at length about procedure advised and threatening is not part of either. Firmness, toughness, wisdom, love is called for here. It is a complex situation and needs to be approached as such.

[knabe]

None of this shenanigans lay on the OP's shoulders

 

This is important to note, OP

 

In our.....zeal to have our preferred action taken, we sometimes forget that. You have not cheated. Your sister has.

 

I have seen BS's come online reeling from their own betrayals only to be scourged because "they haven't told the other BS yet." I get that some people are years out, but surely they remember the pain and inner chaos. They don't need GUILT heaped on them on top of everything else.

 

I always try to remember it is my job to HELP someone who asks for it, not live vicariously through them.

[Timshel]

No Ma'am, (or Sir, not sure) Nowhere in my post did I suggest threatening.Have posted twice at length about procedure advised and threatening is not part of either. Firmness, toughness, wisdom, love is called for here. It is a complex situation and needs to be approached as such.

 

I'm a Sir...now that's cleared up, I'm sure OP will decide. The only time to take an extremely strong course of action is when it collides with a person's values. This collides and OP will make real life decisions.

 

There is little doubt in my thought that OP and her sister will traverse this 'situation' and come out stronger for it.

 

Stand down for the moment OP is my advice. She will come around. The more intervention, the longer peace will take.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm a Sir

 

 

<sits up startled>

 

 

Have you told Gaius?

[Timshel]

<sits up startled>

 

 

Have you told Gaius?

 

You are still reading the board! Then you ought to know by now how dastardly facetious I am.

 

Well, at least I know if I say something knockers, the old guard comes...

 

I am a woman with three children and c-section scars, boobies and all that yadayada...

[QuietDan]

Unfortunately, it sounds like the sister is actively creating and perpetuating lies about the father of her nieces and or nephews. There is an active form of mental and emotional abuse that her sister is actively engaged in at the moment. More people are being hurt/wronged than just the brother-in-law. Is she being at the least a passive accomplice to this affair at the moment? If her sister is telling her these things, the her sister is seeking and finding comfort and it sounds like possible a form of passive approval. By acting as a sounding board and saying nothing to challenge and midigate the situation, is she "aiding and abetting", and providing a form of reassurance and comfort?

[knabe]

Unfortunately, it sounds like the sister is actively creating and perpetuating lies about the father of her nieces and or nephews. There is an active form of mental and emotional abuse that her sister is actively engaged in at the moment. More people are being hurt/wronged than just the brother-in-law. Is she being at the least a passive accomplice to this affair at the moment? If her sister is telling her these things, the her sister is seeking and finding comfort and it sounds like possible a form of passive approval. By acting as a sounding board and saying nothing to challenge and midigate the situation, is she "aiding and abetting", and providing a form of reassurance and comfort?

 

Nope. This isn't Law & Order. She's a sister trying to figure out how to disapprove of a cheater, help somehow, without blowing up the family dynamic.

 

I get it. most people on forums have been hurt. But this sister is not the cheater, and she is not "enabling cheating." She's feeling helpless and unsure of what to do. As bad as cheating is, it is not everyone's duty to be an "anti-cheating warrior" everywhere they go. In fact, as horrible as cheating is, that one-issue fixation is rather unhealthy, and I have seen it in quite a few places.

[Lishy]

I'm a Sir...now that's cleared up, I'm sure OP will decide. The only time to take an extremely strong course of action is when it collides with a person's values. This collides and OP will make real life decisions.

 

There is little doubt in my thought that OP and her sister will traverse this 'situation' and come out stronger for it.

 

Stand down for the moment OP is my advice. She will come around. The more intervention, the longer peace will take.

 

I am so torn

 

Telling my BIL is not an option ... not in a million years

 

I struggle with the fact that my sister has knocked herself off the pedestal I have always had her on and will have forever lost that respect for her ... she is my big sis, 4 years older than me and I always looked up to her

 

I hate how she shows no remorse to the wife and kid .... she says it is OM who have wronged them not her ... I told her she was 50% responsible

 

I struggle not to shake her, shout at her and the loss of respect I have for her kills me ... she has become self centred and self indulgent and also has started to be up herself ... like it's an accomplishment that he left his wife for her

 

This is what I struggle with

 

I agree to back off and let her work it out for herself

 

I am also terrified that the wife will get her contact details and tell her STBX as the fallout will be devastating

 

I am so tied up in knots

[Timshel]

Lishy, it's so easy for us to say do this or that. She is your sister and you love her and her family. She is going through something that you can't go through with her, else you'll be dragged down as well.

 

It is very hard to stand back, isn't it? All I would advise is to be a rock. Hell will create chaos but a rock is not moved.

 

Tell her how you honestly feel and then let her be. You will be there for her and entire family when the dust settles....just don't be the dust.

 

If you remove yourself, you will see that this is not yours to fight and have faith in the truth. If you are asked for the truth, give it, otherwise stay away.

 

Everything will settle, take care of yourself.

[elaine567]

I hate how she shows no remorse to the wife and kid .... she says it is OM who have wronged them not her ... I told her she was 50% responsible

 

I struggle not to shake her, shout at her and the loss of respect I have for her kills me ... she has become self centred and self indulgent and also has started to be up herself ... like it's an accomplishment that he left his wife for her

 

Par for the course, we hear it a lot here.

"Nothing to do with me, it is HIS wife and kids, HIS vows broken, HIS marriage wrecked..."

 

The whole dynamic of the affair does not help either.

A competition is set up. The OW vs the wife

"I am sooooo much "better" than his wife, he tells me this all the time, I deserve to be with him, she deserves nothing...I am the one who really loves him."

[Aqulesco]

let us know when his wife tells the story to your brother in law. how can she not.. it is inevidible

[Lishy]

let us know when his wife tells the story to your brother in law. how can she not.. it is inevidible

 

It's not going to be easy for her to get my sisters number, praying she doesn't yet my gut tells me different

[rushed]

I don't really see what the big deal is. The sister knows what's she doing, and she knows it's wrong, but still continues her behavior. There's really nothing one can do to stop her.

 

Family is family. My siblings and I have done some pretty messed up things in our relationships. When one of us finds out about it or tells the other, we usually get a, "Man, that f***ed up! Why did you do that?! You're a f***in' idiot!" And then we go get food or something, with the occasional, "You're a dumb a** for that" thrown in intermittently throughout the meal. We call each other out for the stupid behavior, but we're still there for each other.