Still in love with [OW]

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

You say you have faith. Have you ever read Psalm 51 or II Chrionicles 7:14?

 

I don't see a whole lot of David here. I see anger and defensiveness and pride.

 

My Bible opens to PS 51....look at the page, every verse is nearly underlined and the onion paper shows the teardrops by the hundreds....don't even go there!

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

Romans 3:23.

 

 

 

If you believe you have done enough, just stop. The simple truth is that nothing "makes up" for what you did. It may not be your intent, but you come off as feeling like your wife "owes" you reconciliation. A successful reconciliation requires two parties, working very hard.

 

Nobody is trying to beat you up, or judging you. Take what you can use, leave the rest.

 

Well she said wanted to.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Ray

 

No one here knows your heart or the heart of your wife.

 

And none of us walk in your shoes.

 

None of us is invested in your relationship with your wife.

 

All we can do is relate your few posts here to our own life experiences.

 

I was not in love with my ap... infatuated but not in love. I walked away after one sexual encounter. I never pined for him or yearned for him or lusted for him. So even though I thought he was a pretty great guy at the time... as time has passed I have come to realize the kind of person he really wa.

 

In addition I have come to realize the kind of person I became. And I have concentrated my efforts on becoming a better person and trying to be the wife my husband deserves. I had become so very selfish and I have learned that I have had to become selfless. In concentrating on healing the damage I had done to my marriage I have found that my heart and mind and life was occupied with a goal and a mission to be the best person I can be. Flawed? Absolutely... but forgiven. Not only by my husband but by my god.

 

I disagree with many of your observations... and those may be the areas you need to concentrate on that will bring you healing. Sometimes a word or a phrase can change everything... not only within yourself but to your wife.

I said many things to my husband that caused hurt rather than healing. I am not saying you have done this... I am saying maybe you have...

 

I wish you Peace and healing and I hope you find the answers here you seem to be searching for

[BTDT2012]

No blame. We all make our choices....As I said the Vows are more than keeping the briefs on when you leave the house. There is so much more you don't know...I do not make excuses. I did what I did. I should have left before I cheated. I own that. ANY, and I do mean ANY book that you read on infidelity and restoration, will tell the BS to evaluate their own investment into the marriage and own what they did or did not do. Blame? No.....cause and effect, absolutely. You can not restore a marriage if both do not admit and come to terms what they did, seek and grant forgiveness. Without those things, restoration is not going to happen.

You and your wife were in the same marriage. She did not cheat. Cheating was 100% your choice. It is up to you to deal with what it is within you that made cheating an acceptable choice. Infidelity has to be dealt with separate and apart from any other issues.

[knabe]

No blame. We all make our choices....As I said the Vows are more than keeping the briefs on when you leave the house. There is so much more you don't know...I do not make excuses. I did what I did. I should have left before I cheated. I own that. ANY, and I do mean ANY book that you read on infidelity and restoration, will tell the BS to evaluate their own investment into the marriage and own what they did or did not do. Blame? No.....cause and effect, absolutely. You can not restore a marriage if both do not admit and come to terms what they did, seek and grant forgiveness. Without those things, restoration is not going to happen.

 

Except for the direct cause and effect part, I do see some of your points here.

 

I too do not think infidelity is the ONLY horrifically painful thing you can do to your spouse. I also believe that the state of a marriage is the responsibility of two people.

 

I also agree that if a BS, years down the road, is not going to move through and begin anew (which is not forgetting or "just getting over it," as many knee-jerk reactors will interpret that to mean), they HAVE to let go of the secondary gain they get from punishing the WS. Period. End of story.

 

My question would be did your wife sense or know that every day of your reconciliation, you were thinking about the OW. No one here can know that. But I know if she did feel you viewed the OW as the great love of your life, it would be almost impossible for you to move on.

[donbar]

Tell your wife how you feel. Tell her you would be happier alone because she has not stopped blaming you. 5 years of attempted reconciliation is enough.

 

The posters here fall into very distinct groups. It is easy to work out what happened to each one without going to their first ever post. As a result the opinions you get here are heavily biased one way or the other. I really think you should get a counselor to help you through this. I am in a very similar situation although I never confessed. My W has changed though, for the better....

 

Once you get to 50 posts feel free to start reaching out with PMs.

[BTDT2012]

Tell your wife how you feel. Tell her you would be happier alone because she has not stopped blaming you. 5 years of attempted reconciliation is enough.

 

The posters here fall into very distinct groups. It is easy to work out what happened to each one without going to their first ever post. As a result the opinions you get here are heavily biased one way or the other. I really think you should get a counselor to help you through this. I am in a very similar situation although I never confessed. My W has changed though, for the better....

 

Once you get to 50 posts feel free to start reaching out with PMs.

So, you think he should continue to put the blame on his wife. Should he also tell her that he has kept track of his AP and thinks he might still love her?

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

So, you think he should continue to put the blame on his wife. Should he also tell her that he has kept track of his AP and thinks he might still love her?

 

Where did I say I blame my wife? I wish you would read my posts....For the last time...do I blame her for me cheating? NO!!!!! Do I blame her for not being a wife and do I blame her for not reconciling/forgiving that she promised to do. Yes. If she can't. Then tell me so....

 

And I have NOT kept track of the AP!!!!! You make it sound like I check her social media or something... Heck no.......We live in a small community where kids go to school, work, play sports and parents talk in the stands....as for her feelings for me, I have no idea!

[LivingWaterPlease]

....go read my posts...people READ!!!!!!!

...

.

 

Just a comment, I notice on many threads throughout the forum that folks often comment without reading the OP, without reading response posts following the OP, or with little reading comprehension...

 

Have thought of opening a thread addressing this issue...

 

My W has changed though, for the better....

.

 

Glad to read this donbar (don't mean to t/j, Ray, just a quick comment) Have wondered how you're doing but the other thread got so heated I hated to ask since I figured you may not want to continue it. Thanks for the update. Will look forward to your thread continuing if you decide to go that route. If not, so glad you're finding support through PMs!

[BTDT2012]

Where did I say I blame my wife? I wish you would read my posts....For the last time...do I blame her for me cheating? NO!!!!! [bold]Do I blame her for not being a wife and do I blame her for not reconciling/forgiving that she promised to do. Yes. If she can't. Then tell me so....

 

And I have NOT kept track of the AP!!!!! You make it sound like I check her social media or something... Heck no.......We live in a small community where kids go to school, work, play sports and parents talk in the stands....as for her feelings for me, I have no idea!

 

I was responding to donbar's statement and this from you

There are circumstances in that I do know where the OW is and what she is doing.

For the part that I have bolded above, actions speak louder than words.

 

You aren't obligated to live a life of unhappiness. I've been an OW (knowing & unknowing) and a BS. Have you ever been on the receiving end of infidelity?

Edited June 29, 2017 by BTDT2012

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

Just a comment, I notice on many threads throughout the forum that folks often comment without reading the OP, without reading response posts following the OP, or with little reading comprehension...

 

Have thought of opening a thread addressing this issue...

 

 

 

Glad to read this donbar (don't mean to t/j, Ray, just a quick comment) Have wondered how you're doing but the other thread got so heated I hated to ask since I figured you may not want to continue it. Thanks for the update. Will look forward to your thread continuing if you decide to go that route. If not, so glad you're finding support through PMs!

 

I would love to, but apparently I do not have enough posts to be able to have PM!

[LivingWaterPlease]

I would love to, but apparently I do not have enough posts to be able to have PM!

 

Well, won't be long until you do have enough posts at the rate you're going! Keep posting, won't be long!

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

I was responding to donbar's statement and this from you

For the part that I have bolded above, actions speak louder than words.

 

You aren't obligated to live a life of unhappiness. I've been an OW (knowing & unknowing) and a BS. Have you ever been on the receiving end of infidelity?

 

Here we go again, cheating is the worser of sins....

 

I am fully aware of what I did, no one is more aware!

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

Tell your wife how you feel. Tell her you would be happier alone because she has not stopped blaming you. 5 years of attempted reconciliation is enough.

 

The posters here fall into very distinct groups. It is easy to work out what happened to each one without going to their first ever post. As a result the opinions you get here are heavily biased one way or the other. I really think you should get a counselor to help you through this. I am in a very similar situation although I never confessed. My W has changed though, for the better....

 

Once you get to 50 posts feel free to start reaching out with PMs.[/quote

 

In the words of Elvis...thank you very much

[BTDT2012]

Here we go again, cheating is the worser of sins....

 

I am fully aware of what I did, no one is more aware!

How did you reach that conclusion from my post? I don't see how telling you that you don't have to accept being treated badly says anything about degrees of sin.

Edited June 29, 2017 by BTDT2012

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

I was responding to donbar's statement and this from you

For the part that I have bolded above, actions speak louder than words.

 

You aren't obligated to live a life of unhappiness. I've been an OW (knowing & unknowing) and a BS. Have you ever been on the receiving end of infidelity?

 

I guess I was referring to what is in Bold above....Sorry, I jumped to the conclusion but I was taking what you said as to mean "Being cheated on is the worst thing a woman can be inflicted with and you have no idea what that feels like!!!"

 

I apologize if that was not the intention but that is the way I took it

[knabe]

I guess I was referring to what is in Bold above....Sorry, I jumped to the conclusion but I was taking what you said as to mean "Being cheated on is the worst thing a woman can be inflicted with and you have no idea what that feels like!!!"

 

I apologize if that was not the intention but that is the way I took it

 

The reason you take it that way is because you are so angrily defensive about the thing you said you have taken responsibility for, you will not hear anything that isn;t what you want, which is basically that your wife is an awful hag and you should go find your OW who is probably still in love with you.

 

I get it. Living with constant punishment for 5 years would be....HORRIBLE.

 

But at least own it.

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

The reason you take it that way is because you are so angrily defensive about the thing you said you have taken responsibility for, you will not hear anything that isn;t what you want, which is basically that your wife is an awful hag and you should go find your OW who is probably still in love with you.

 

I get it. Living with constant punishment for 5 years would be....HORRIBLE.

 

But at least own it.

 

Ok Knabe.....one last time....I don't do those silly emojis, but go ahead and picture the rolling eyes and sarcasm......

 

"I am filthy narcissistic pig who is selfish, self-centered and think I am perfect and demand everyone to see it that way.... I cheated because she is deprived me of what I deserve and I still lust after my AP......We're kings of the world baby!...I own it all...."

 

Sarcasm done now

[wmacbride]

Macbride....go read my posts, my affair was not 5 years it was almost 1.5 yrs. I stated it was a choice...., mistake, wrong, I am guilty. yes, i lied and I cheated. And if you or any one else comes at me and says I do not own or take responsibility, its going to get ugly. For God sakes people READ!!!!!!!

 

And yes Faith keeps me here.....just people have a a belief in God and go to church does not mean they are not human, make bad choices, mistakes, SIN and break one or more of the 10 commandments....EVERYONE DOES. EVERY SINGLE HUMAN THAT HAS EXISTED HAS BROKEN THEM. It is why we are human.!!!!!! Obviously, you are a BS or OW or someone with anger still in your heart. Because I cheated does not mean and some sub-human or forever flawed. I screwed up, I F(*&^*^)**** cheated/lied/deceived....how many more ways do you want me to say it??? For gosh sakes. I did not come here to get beaten up for something I did 5 years ago, confessed and repented for. Trust me I have already gotten 10 peoples worth of that. The fact the OW is still in my heart/mind has zero bearing on that fact. I am NOT going to cheat again. I am not. I won't. I can't live with what I have done already if it was not for God's grace. Time does not remove love. Never will. The mind never erases. Its a DVR that can not be formated over. You who says it does is lying. You just hope the current love is so much better that over time it becomes way better than the old memory. You look back and smile and say yes it was good but this is better.

 

I really do not know how much more groveling and humility and sorry for what I did a person can do. Unless you know the facts, I would stop bringing judgment. The fact I am 50 feet over the wall of Grand Canyon of sin and and you are 1 foot over, it still means we are both dead! All I asked was a question. I got some answers and the rest of you who obviously NEVER walked in my shoes (or even bothered to read what I wrote) in how shameful and disappointed in what I did, felt and/or walked my road, please refrain. What I have discovered in the last 5 years, is that this whole world is one screwed up place and everyone LOVES to kick and beat the cheaters up and no one wants to help them to dig out. Thanks Macbride for the help.

 

Oh for pete's sake, stop with all the melodramatics.

 

You are a cheater, I know that doesn't sit well wit the image you have of yourself. There is a huge difference between being someone who cheated and someone who is a cheater, and if you can't tell the difference, I'm not going to bother explaining it.

 

btw, if you knew anything about me as a poster, you would see that I am actually somewhat open minded about it, as if I wasn't, I would have stayed married to my former ws, who I love very much and who had an affair close to ten years ago.

 

It's not your grovelling, it's not your words, and that is what I am trying to get through to you, if you would stop getting your back up and actually pay attention. It sounds like you have been great with words, but the action are simply not behind them- and your wife knows this.

 

Think of it this way. If your wife had been in an affair for a year and a half, and had only told you and ended it because she was afraid her om was going to do it first. Now picture her coming to the reconciliation table with your attitude, you'd be pissed off too. This is what people are trying to explain to you, You are blaming everyone else for your unhappiness, when really, it all comes from you.

 

If your wife was here and upset about you, I would tell her the same thing. If you don't like Ray, and if he is still treating you like crap and pining after is ow, I would tell her to rather than complain about it, LEAVE.

[wmacbride]

No blame. We all make our choices....As I said the Vows are more than keeping the briefs on when you leave the house. There is so much more you don't know...I do not make excuses. I did what I did. I should have left before I cheated. I own that. ANY, and I do mean ANY book that you read on infidelity and restoration, will tell the BS to evaluate their own investment into the marriage and own what they did or did not do. Blame? No.....cause and effect, absolutely. You can not restore a marriage if both do not admit and come to terms what they did, seek and grant forgiveness. Without those things, restoration is not going to happen.

 

You are seeing what you want to see in those books, what fits your narrative.

 

When my h cheated, it was all tied up with a whole lot of other issues,and he spent years meeting with mental health professionals, marriage counselors, etc. One thing they ALL said was, if reconciling is what you want, you need to triage the situation.

 

First, what is the major crisis in the marriage.

 

It was cheating, so that was addressed first. Since that had been dealt with in a way that worked for both me and him, we could move on.

 

No one is saying the other issues in your marriage aren't important, but what they are saying is that, if you compare your marriage to a person who is wounded, you treat the most serious wounds first. If someone comes to the hospital with diabetes and a knife would in their chest, you fully treat the chest wound first. you don't just slap a band aid on it, tell the injured party to chug down some morphine and start talking about their diet. You make sure they are stable, then treat the diabetes.

 

You don't seem to want to treat the major wound first. You come off as only really being concerned with your own feelings. If that is who you are , then fair enough, You are not a good candidate for a reconciliation...but that doesn't make you a bad person, Just not someone who should be married right now, as you don't seem to have the heart for it, or the empathy.

[wmacbride]

Except for the direct cause and effect part, I do see some of your points here.

 

I too do not think infidelity is the ONLY horrifically painful thing you can do to your spouse. I also believe that the state of a marriage is the responsibility of two people.

 

I also agree that if a BS, years down the road, is not going to move through and begin anew (which is not forgetting or "just getting over it," as many knee-jerk reactors will interpret that to mean), they HAVE to let go of the secondary gain they get from punishing the WS. Period. End of story.

 

My question would be did your wife sense or know that every day of your reconciliation, you were thinking about the OW. No one here can know that. But I know if she did feel you viewed the OW as the great love of your life, it would be almost impossible for you to move on.

 

 

I can't disagree with this, but I would mention that it's not uncommon for a ws to feel they are doing what their bs needs and are stumped as to why it doesn't help them move forward.

 

They say they read the books, watched the videos, did whatever. They are regurgitating Dr. Phil quotes in every sentence, but the bs still isn't changing. The answer to this is simple.

 

In those cases, the ws is acting without empathy. They are doing what they think they would help them if they were a bs but that may be the last thing their bs needs.

 

One thing a bs needs more than anything else is truth. I'm not talking about doing this is cruel way, but rather, being honest. A bs's radar is often working in overdrive, and anything, even if it's just a passing wistful look on the face of their ws , can put them right back to square one, and they will know something is up.

 

At least if the ws is honest, the bs knows where they stand and can make decisions based on that. they aren't being lied to and gaslighteed.

[DKT3]

Oh for pete's sake, stop with all the melodramatics.

 

You are a cheater, I know that doesn't sit well wit the image you have of yourself. There is a huge difference between being someone who cheated and someone who is a cheater, and if you can't tell the difference, I'm not going to bother explaining it.

 

btw, if you knew anything about me as a poster, you would see that I am actually somewhat open minded about it, as if I wasn't, I would have stayed married to my former ws, who I love very much and who had an affair close to ten years ago.

 

It's not your grovelling, it's not your words, and that is what I am trying to get through to you, if you would stop getting your back up and actually pay attention. It sounds like you have been great with words, but the action are simply not behind them- and your wife knows this.

 

Think of it this way. If your wife had been in an affair for a year and a half, and had only told you and ended it because she was afraid her om was going to do it first. Now picture her coming to the reconciliation table with your attitude, you'd be pissed off too. This is what people are trying to explain to you, You are blaming everyone else for your unhappiness, when really, it all comes from you.

 

If your wife was here and upset about you, I would tell her the same thing. If you don't like Ray, and if he is still treating you like crap and pining after is ow, I would tell her to rather than complain about it, LEAVE.

 

 

Image of themselves.....I think this is the hardest thing that most waywards have issues with. That is seeing themselves as others do, based on actions and not what the waywards attempt to project regardless of those actions.

 

Ray sees himself as a victim, it's as clear as day, I believe this has hindered his ability to emphasize with her, but at the same time, intellectually he understands that damage.

 

For us that has successfully reconciled or started anew can see the flaw. It's the hamster wheel.

 

This reminds me of being a kid when I started driving I got my mom's Ford tempo, nice car but not what a teenager wants. So I saved my money up and got a Firebird that needed some work. By this time my brother was driving the tempo. My firebird was a POS that sucked every buck I had and whatever I could get from my parents...man I missed that tempo. But once I was in position to buy another car, I sure as hell didn't buy a tempo.

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

Oh for pete's sake, stop with all the melodramatics.

 

You are a cheater, I know that doesn't sit well wit the image you have of yourself. There is a huge difference between being someone who cheated and someone who is a cheater, and if you can't tell the difference, I'm not going to bother explaining it.

 

btw, if you knew anything about me as a poster, you would see that I am actually somewhat open minded about it, as if I wasn't, I would have stayed married to my former ws, who I love very much and who had an affair close to ten years ago.

 

It's not your grovelling, it's not your words, and that is what I am trying to get through to you, if you would stop getting your back up and actually pay attention. It sounds like you have been great with words, but the action are simply not behind them- and your wife knows this.

 

Think of it this way. If your wife had been in an affair for a year and a half, and had only told you and ended it because she was afraid her om was going to do it first. Now picture her coming to the reconciliation table with your attitude, you'd be pissed off too. This is what people are trying to explain to you, You are blaming everyone else for your unhappiness, when really, it all comes from you.

 

If your wife was here and upset about you, I would tell her the same thing. If you don't like Ray, and if he is still treating you like crap and pining after is ow, I would tell her to rather than complain about it, LEAVE.

 

Please read ALL of my posts.....

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

Oh for pete's sake, stop with all the melodramatics.

 

You are a cheater, I know that doesn't sit well wit the image you have of yourself. There is a huge difference between being someone who cheated and someone who is a cheater, and if you can't tell the difference, I'm not going to bother explaining it.

 

btw, if you knew anything about me as a poster, you would see that I am actually somewhat open minded about it, as if I wasn't, I would have stayed married to my former ws, who I love very much and who had an affair close to ten years ago.

 

It's not your grovelling, it's not your words, and that is what I am trying to get through to you, if you would stop getting your back up and actually pay attention. It sounds like you have been great with words, but the action are simply not behind them- and your wife knows this.

 

Think of it this way. If your wife had been in an affair for a year and a half, and had only told you and ended it because she was afraid her om was going to do it first. Now picture her coming to the reconciliation table with your attitude, you'd be pissed off too. This is what people are trying to explain to you, You are blaming everyone else for your unhappiness, when really, it all comes from you.

 

If your wife was here and upset about you, I would tell her the same thing. If you don't like Ray, and if he is still treating you like crap and pining after is ow, I would tell her to rather than complain about it, LEAVE.

 

As I said I am sub-human. I am a cheater

[ItsColdAsCrapInAlaska]

You are seeing what you want to see in those books, what fits your narrative.

 

When my h cheated, it was all tied up with a whole lot of other issues,and he spent years meeting with mental health professionals, marriage counselors, etc. One thing they ALL said was, if reconciling is what you want, you need to triage the situation.

 

First, what is the major crisis in the marriage.

 

It was cheating, so that was addressed first. Since that had been dealt with in a way that worked for both me and him, we could move on.

 

No one is saying the other issues in your marriage aren't important, but what they are saying is that, if you compare your marriage to a person who is wounded, you treat the most serious wounds first. If someone comes to the hospital with diabetes and a knife would in their chest, you fully treat the chest wound first. you don't just slap a band aid on it, tell the injured party to chug down some morphine and start talking about their diet. You make sure they are stable, then treat the diabetes.

 

You don't seem to want to treat the major wound first. You come off as only really being concerned with your own feelings. If that is who you are , then fair enough, You are not a good candidate for a reconciliation...but that doesn't make you a bad person, Just not someone who should be married right now, as you don't seem to have the heart for it, or the empathy.

 

Again read the posts.....I have seen a therapist, counselor, pastor, marriage intensive week mmm lets see ballpark 300 hours....I am not pining....i think I established that back on page 2....