Why do I get a sense that a lot of women feel I'm beneath them?

[NJ123]

Your problem is your view of things. You admit you have issues you need to work on, and instead of working on things, you lament the fact you can't get a woman you like. The men who do well with women, they work on the things they need to in order to get the women they like. Instead of complaining about your problems, deal with them. Men like that earn the respect and admiration of women.

 

I get what you're saying but as I said there's literally millions of guys that have issues that have attractive girlfriends. So what exactly are they doing to get those women? I just don't get how guys are supposed to be okay with knowing that generally men have to have a good job to get decent looking women.

[ZA Dater]

Your problem is your view of things. You admit you have issues you need to work on, and instead of working on things, you lament the fact you can't get a woman you like. The men who do well with women, they work on the things they need to in order to get the women they like. Instead of complaining about your problems, deal with them. Men like that earn the respect and admiration of women.

 

Is his view really so wrong in term so superficial things?

 

 

I find this "add value", "bring to the table", "what do you offer" all very amusing because these self same questions never get asked of ladies yet men need to suddenly sell themselves like some item of clothing or a car.

 

 

Had this being 1920's I would agree, yet today men and women are considered equal in most places yet in the dating scenario the above is regularly trotted out?

 

 

OP the way I see it OLD is a slippery slope to misery, if you find someone nice great but I wouldn't read into or actually care who you cant get BECAUSE...if they are so fantastic why are they doing OLD, ok that's a bit of a South African thing because here OLD is reserved for people who cannot ever get dates IRL.

 

 

Value is what you make of it, retail is a good environment because you need to acquire confidence quite quickly and learn to deal with people, that alone tells me you probably don't lack those things, your issue is like me, a complete lack of success which has jaded you to a certain degree.

 

 

I can tell you success can overcome some hurdles, it might give you greater choice but its no assurance of success.

[ZA Dater]

I get what you're saying but as I said there's literally millions of guys that have issues that have attractive girlfriends. So what exactly are they doing to get those women? I just don't get how guys are supposed to be okay with knowing that generally men have to have a good job to get decent looking women.

 

Because the actions of society and media have made it so.

[Blanco]

Not everyone will admit it, and it matters less to some than others, but having a good job is rarely going to hurt your chances in the dating world. That said, there are miles between having a six-figure-income job and making minimum wage.

 

Most women just want to know they're with a guy who's got some stability in the way of vocation. It doesn't mean he needs to be a corner-office executive, but a grown man working a dead-end job with zero trajectory toward something better is also not very appealing to women.

 

It's not a character flaw for a woman to want to know the guy she's with is capable of doing his fair share to provide for household expenses and, possibly later, a family.

[NJ123]

Is his view really so wrong in term so superficial things?

 

 

[n]I find this "add value", "bring to the table", "what do you offer" all very amusing because these self same questions never get asked of ladies yet men need to suddenly sell themselves like some item of clothing or a car. [/b]

 

 

Had this being 1920's I would agree, yet today men and women are considered equal in most places yet in the dating scenario the above is regularly trotted out?

 

 

OP the way I see it OLD is a slippery slope to misery, if you find someone nice great but I wouldn't read into or actually care who you cant get BECAUSE...if they are so fantastic why are they doing OLD, ok that's a bit of a South African thing because here OLD is reserved for people who cannot ever get dates IRL.

 

 

Value is what you make of it, retail is a good environment because you need to acquire confidence quite quickly and learn to deal with people, that alone tells me you probably don't lack those things, your issue is like me, a complete lack of success which has jaded you to a certain degree.

 

 

I can tell you success can overcome some hurdles, it might give you greater choice but its no assurance of success.

 

You already sadly know the answer to this. The response is usually "because that's the way life is" & "life isn't fair so deal with it."

[Blanco]

You already sadly know the answer to this. The response is usually "because that's the way life is" & "life isn't fair so deal with it."

 

Well, it's not fair, yet it seems like a lot of people who aren't necessarily any more advantaged than someone such as yourself have found a way to take this reality and make the necessary adjustments to possibly yield success.

[Blanco]

Because the actions of society and media have made it so.

 

Nonsense. It's just that men and women tend to value different things more.

 

The average woman wants to know the guy she's with won't be some leech who can't pay his half of the rent, let alone provide for a family. The average guy doesn't care if a woman lives in her car so long as she's hot and wants to date him.

[bluefeather]

From what I remember, any time you add/update your pics, you get bumped up to the top of the search list. So going by that, it would make sense that you got more looks. It's something new to look at.

[NJ123]

Why wouldn't they be ok with it? I don't expect a decent woman to want to date some broke loser. Why should she? What kind of life can a woman look forward to if her guy is a loser stuck in a dead end job, making almost no cash?

 

We all have preferences. If you can get someone who matches your preferences, good. If not, you can either lament your life, or do something about it. You are choosing option A. Also, women don't like complainers.

 

 

 

Men ask for things from women too, we just ask for different things. True, I don't care how much money a woman makes, because that just doesn't matter to me. There are things I do expect from a woman though, and she better have those things or I will find someone who does. If a woman expects a guy to have a decent job, that is her choice, and frankly, I don't blame her.

 

Because it seems it's all about instant gratification these days. What if the same guy gets a much better job making 3x as much? Is he supposed to all of a sudden date the women that didn't want to go out with him before if they happen to still be single? How's that supposed to make the guy feel knowing it was due to his job that got him those dates now all of a sudden? It's like a lot of people just choose the safe bet option due to the security & it has nothing to do with the person at all. I know you'll go in the route of saying it's not about the job it's about the drive & ambition probably but the point still stands.

Edited June 5, 2017 by NJ123

[ZA Dater]

Nonsense. It's just that men and women tend to value different things more.

 

The average woman wants to know the guy she's with won't be some leech who can't pay his half of the rent, let alone provide for a family. The average guy doesn't care if a woman lives in her car so long as she's hot and wants to date him.

 

And when the reverse is true, the women has a dead end menial job? That's suddenly ok? Guys must look past that "oh she has a lovely personality and she is a nice person" are the most often trotted out things.

 

 

Why then does this not apply to guys?

 

 

I just feel that too much value is placed on guys tangible value as opposed to his intangible value.

[ZA Dater]

Because it seems it's all about instant gratification these days. What if the same guy gets a much better job making 3x as much? Is he supposed to all of a sudden date the women that didn't want to go out with him before if they happen to still be single? How's that supposed to make the guy feel knowing it was due to his job that got him those dates now all of a sudden? It's like a lot of people just choose the safe bet option due to the security & it has nothing to do with the person at all. I know you'll go in the route of saying it's not about the job it's about the drive & ambition probably but the point still stands.

 

I agree. The bold is just told but is seldom true, its very definitely about the job, I have seen this countless times, the nice guy with the average job, the cocky player with the high flying job, doesn't matter the nice guy is nicer, he wont ever be able to compete with the other guy BECAUSE no stock is placed on intangible things like personality.

 

 

As for how a guy is supposed to feel, well I'd imagine it would feel quite nice to actually date something you want.

[Blanco]

Because it seems it's all about instant gratification these days. What if the same guy gets a much better job making 3x as much? Is he supposed to all of a sudden date the women that didn't want to go out with him before if they happen to still be single? How's that supposed to make the guy feel knowing it was due to his job that got him those dates now all of a sudden? It's like a lot of people just choose the safe bet option due to the security & it has nothing to do with the person at all. I know you'll go in the route of saying it's not about the job it's about the drive & ambition probably but the point still stands.

 

You deal in such extreme hypothetical situations.

 

Once again, most women just want to know that the guy is financially stable and capable of providing for a family. They want to know he's a functional adult, who is able to live on his own, cook his own meals, take out the trash, mow the lawn, etc.

 

They want a stable adult man.

 

I don't think that's a sin.

[NJ123]

And when the reverse is true, the women has a dead end menial job? That's suddenly ok? Guys must look past that "oh she has a lovely personality and she is a nice person" are the most often trotted out things.

 

 

Why then does this not apply to guys?

 

 

I just feel that too much value is placed on guys tangible value as opposed to his intangible value.

 

It's just one of those double standards in dating that will never go away. It's just the way society is structured to think & a few people trying to change it won't make it go away.

[Els]

I get what you're saying but as I said there's literally millions of guys that have issues that have attractive girlfriends. So what exactly are they doing to get those women?

 

It's extremely difficult for me to believe that there are millions of guys who won't drive to meet a woman, live with their parents in their 20s(?), and who cannot support themselves - all of whom are apparently dating women whom they are attracted to? Would you like to cite sources for this?

 

Add to that your negativity and obsession with rating women based on their physical looks, and I'm sorry, but it's an extremely unappealing bundle. I don't know any woman who would date that combination, especially if the guy was adamant on not working on improving himself.

 

I just don't get how guys are supposed to be okay with knowing that generally men have to have a good job to get decent looking women.

Plenty of men take pride in being able to support themselves and enjoy having a woman who appreciates that.

[Blanco]

And when the reverse is true, the women has a dead end menial job? That's suddenly ok? Guys must look past that "oh she has a lovely personality and she is a nice person" are the most often trotted out things.

 

 

Why then does this not apply to guys?

 

 

I just feel that too much value is placed on guys tangible value as opposed to his intangible value.

 

It doesn't apply to guys, because most GUYS themselves have shown time and time again that they will value a woman with a great face working the counter at Walgreens over the average looking woman practicing medicine.

 

I'm not saying it's right, but ultimately, if a woman can pay her bills and not be a total financial pariah, the average guy doesn't really care so long as she looks good.

[Blanco]

OP, maybe instead of chastising womankind for preferring a man with a decent (i.e. stable) job who lives on his own, you should ask yourself why you don't seem terribly interested in doing those things for yourself.

[ZA Dater]

You deal in such extreme hypothetical situations.

 

Once again, most women just want to know that the guy is financially stable and capable of providing for a family. They want to know he's a functional adult, who is able to live on his own, cook his own meals, take out the trash, mow the lawn, etc.

 

They want a stable adult man.

 

I don't think that's a sin.

 

If that be the case sure but among the 23-29yo group they generally expect far more than that, witness sites like seeking arrangement for example. I don't know how old the contributors to this thread are but just this weekend I sat with a mid 20's lady, very nice person, I liked her a lot, I am 33yo and my friend is 48yo and divorced.

 

 

Who was she more into, him rather than me. Why, because he has "more" than me. I might be the better long term person be he is the now person.

 

 

Ultimately I get what the OP is saying and nobody is saying material things aren't important BUT if you demand such things then one must ask what the ladies bring to the table. Its not a one way street as some seem to think it is.

[NJ123]

You deal in such extreme hypothetical situations.

 

Once again, most women just want to know that the guy is financially stable and capable of providing for a family. They want to know he's a functional adult, who is able to live on his own, cook his own meals, take out the trash, mow the lawn, etc.

 

They want a stable adult man.

 

I don't think that's a sin.

 

But the problem is they want it now. Not what can happen in the future of getting something better. As I explained all of a sudden those same women that turned the guy down would think he's a good option now just solely due to the job he has now & literally nothing about him as a person. He can be a great guy with a lot of the same interests but it's the job that wins her over. It wouldn't be a good feeling man.

[Els]

OP, maybe instead of chastising womankind for preferring a man with a decent (i.e. stable) job who lives on his own, you should ask yourself why you don't seem terribly interested in doing those things for yourself.

 

Exactly. Heck, most of the guys I know wouldn't even dream of trying to date if they weren't able to pay their own rent/bills - because they want to focus all their efforts on getting to where they need to be first, instead of having to be supported by mum and dad. It's a principle, a masculine pride thing IMO, which lots of women find attractive, and which the OP sorely lacks.

[Blanco]

I don't make much money myself, but then again, I have very little focus on dating as I work to change that. I have known women who fit the gold-digger bill, and sure, it's not pleasant to watch some women go gaga over what a man can do for them financially.

 

But at the same time, I won't throw shade at a woman in her late twenties or older for not wanting to live like a struggling college student with no light at the end of that tunnel.

[ZA Dater]

It's extremely difficult for me to believe that there are millions of guys who won't drive to meet a woman, live with their parents in their 20s(?), and who cannot support themselves - all of whom are apparently dating women whom they are attracted to? Would you like to cite sources for this?

 

Add to that your negativity and obsession with rating women based on their physical looks, and I'm sorry, but it's an extremely unappealing bundle. I don't know any woman who would date that combination, especially if the guy was adamant on not working on improving himself.

 

Plenty of men take pride in being able to support themselves and enjoy having a woman who appreciates that.

 

You nor I have the data to confirm the validity of this. Perhaps what the OP is saying is he has NEVER been able to date anyone he likes?

 

 

Negativity and rating on looks, is this worse than women rating on bank account size and other superficial things? I think not. Essentially amounts to exactly the same thing.

[Blanco]

But the problem is they want it now. Not what can happen in the future of getting something better. As I explained all of a sudden those same women that turned the guy down would think he's a good option now just solely due to the job he has now & literally nothing about him as a person. He can be a great guy with a lot of the same interests but it's the job that wins her over. It wouldn't be a good feeling man.

 

OK, so potentially harsh question: What does that have to do with your situation? You aren't even in school, so unless you take up a trade or something, you're probably still years away from even being able to think about how having a decent job will personally affect you.

 

My suggestion would be to stop obsessing so much about hypotheticals that have nothing to do with you, and pour your energy into the things that do affect you.

[NJ123]

If that be the case sure but among the 23-29yo group they generally expect far more than that, witness sites like seeking arrangement for example. I don't know how old the contributors to this thread are but just this weekend I sat with a mid 20's lady, very nice person, I liked her a lot, I am 33yo and my friend is 48yo and divorced.

 

 

Who was she more into, him rather than me. Why, because he has "more" than me. I might be the better long term person be he is the now person.

 

 

Ultimately I get what the OP is saying and nobody is saying material things aren't important BUT if you demand such things then one must ask what the ladies bring to the table. Its not a one way street as some seem to think it is.

 

This is going to probably get me some heat on here but it's something I've noticed lately, that whenever someone is driving in a luxury car I notice literally 9 times out of 10 it's some decent/good looking woman driving in it. I highly doubt all of them happen to be working amazing jobs to get those cars. You just know that a lot of them have a wealthy husband or a guy that makes really good money while they probably don't even work.

[ZA Dater]

But the problem is they want it now. Not what can happen in the future of getting something better. As I explained all of a sudden those same women that turned the guy down would think he's a good option now just solely due to the job he has now & literally nothing about him as a person. He can be a great guy with a lot of the same interests but it's the job that wins her over. It wouldn't be a good feeling man.

 

If I were that guy I would refuse to date any of them because this sort of person generally is stuck in a dead end job themselves and generally looking for a guy who can support them.

 

 

If I am going to be judged on career then I reserve the right to judge them on the self same criteria, with the proviso the career doesn't make the person. That's the difference, that proviso is seldom applied by ladies.

 

 

By the same token a good career is also not always universally appealing

[NJ123]

Yeah, they want it now. Would you date a fat chick who promised to go on a diet one day?

 

That's not the same thing at all. Physical appearance & health should be way more important in a match than someone's job. The first thing you see about someone is obviously their appearance. It's just not a fair comparison.