Leftover questions

[Unforseen]

Forgiveness says you are given another chance to make a new beginning. Desmond Tutu

 

Mercy, thank you for that. In every sense my wife and I are making a new beginning and I am working on forgiveness. To forgive my wife will mean that I am willing to give up my right to hurt her with what she has done to me. Too often I still find myself with that desire to use what she did against her to hurt her back. The frequency and intensity of those desires are fading and I am happy for that.

 

I must thank you again for your words: "I love my spouse more than I hate what they did." I felt able to speak those words to my wife and she cried with gratitude.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Unforeseen, I guess all of us here want a happy ending for you and your wife. However, some of the folks have made some valid points in your case and these don't bode well for the future. As was said by one of your past Presidents "Trust but verify". You cannot go wrong with that advice. You are right about being compassionate in your approach to your wife BUT unless she is all in and actually wants to reconcile with you, all your efforts to do so will come to nought.

 

How will you know whether she is truly on board with reconciliation. It will show in her actions and her attitude. Also, while you are observing her take off your rose coloured glasses. Observe everything about her objectively in the complete absence of emotions or feelings. It will be in her attitudes and actions particularly towards you, that you will get a feel of whether her desire to reconcile is genuine or false. Also, her behaviour towards you as the two of you go forward will indicate whether she actually now respects you or not. Respect for you you will be the touchstone for success in your efforts to reconcile. Warm wishes.

[understand50]

It will all come down to what marriage is on many levels, a "leap of faith"

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mercy, thank you for that. In every sense my wife and I are making a new beginning and I am working on forgiveness. To forgive my wife will mean that I am willing to give up my right to hurt her with what she has done to me. Too often I still find myself with that desire to use what she did against her to hurt her back. The frequency and intensity of those desires are fading and I am happy for that.

 

I must thank you again for your words: "I love my spouse more than I hate what they did." I felt able to speak those words to my wife and she cried with gratitude.

 

 

This is probably the most important step in reconciliation. I was a cheater....you have no idea how it feels to be forgiven like this. We did so many things wrong....nor did we follow every piece of advice given to us on these forums.

 

You know your wife....no...she is not the person you thought she was. No she does not love you as much as you thought she did.

 

But your forgiveness...your willingness to love her more than you hate what she did...will speak volumes to her heart.

 

Each day my husband loved me and i did not deserve it...proved to me that he thought i was worth the risk. I did not want to disappoint him. His gift of love and forgiveness to me literally broke my heart....and made me want to show him that he had made the right decision.

 

I dont know what your wife is thinking...but i can tell you...she is watching you...because she is just as afraid as you are. Every move you make toward her...she makes one toward you.

 

Remember when you were dating? The dance you did together? You moved toward each other until you both knew together is where you belonged. But you were afraid...until you felt comfortable.

 

Reconciliation is much the same way....the difference is...the fears you have are deeper and greater because trust has already been broken. That innocent trust you once had is forever gone...but it is replaced with a new kind of trust...one that is deliberate instead of innocent.

 

I made a committment to place my heart back into the hands of the man i knew at any moment could pull the plug on this realtionship....and he did the same thing. You are skiddish at first....watching every move...listening to every word...dissecting and analizing everything. But as time goes by....reserved trust begins to rebuild...for the both of you. It takes a very long time....and lots of tears....but eventually...you look at each other and realize...this is where you are supposed to be.

 

It is a hard journey my friend...and sometimes you feel exhausted...but you will eventually reach a place that you know...this is where i belong.

 

I so wish you happiness and peace and strength for the journey ahead...and i know many here are warning you of the terrible things that can happen.

 

I want to be the one to tell you of the beautiful place you can also be. If John and I could make it...so can you.

[Unforseen]

Man, talk about gulping down the sh*t five dollar foot long with chips. You are in a worse position now than when you started.

 

Look, your wife didn't respond better to you being nice. She just knows you're spineless and she's the dominant person in the relationship. First and foremost, in any relationship, there has to be a certain level of respect between the partners. Your wife doesn't respect you because you're a wet blanket. You might as well go buy a bigger toothbrush holder because so long as you stay with her, there's going to be other guys around. The only difference is that the next time she will be much harder to catch. Honestly, I really, really doubt she's ever stopped because she's never had a reason to. You obviously allowed it and at the end of the day, she got away with zero consequences. There is no reason for her to stop or ever to stop. Your pain isn't enough for her to end it. How do I know? Because you caught her and she didn't end it. Simple.

 

You came here because you chose to put your head in the sand and it didn't work. Yet here we are, and you're choosing to put your head back in the sand. You don't know what she did or who she did it with. I'd bet the farm you've barely scratched the surface of her infidelity. Normally, that would be the WS fault, but in this case, you've chosen not to know. A polygraph would end your speculation but truthfully, you simply do not want to know.

 

She doesn't judge you by your words, she does it by your actions. You've shown her time and time again you're okay with this. For some reason, you judge her by her words and not her actions. Face it, you're married to an active serial cheater who doesn't care about you. If you're okay with that, so be it. Just stop deluding yourself. You've made no progress whatsoever and that's simply a shame. People gave you great advice, but you have to have the cajones to implement it. You don't.

 

You should probably pick up some extra towels when you get that toothbrush holder. This is going to get messier as time goes on whether you like it or not. That's what happens when you chose not to deal with it, but you already knew that because that's why you're here.

 

So obviously I was angered by your post. But that was simply my initial reaction. But then again that was the point wasn't it? Why else would you post something so disrespectful and full of shaming words and phrases unless you were trying to piss me off? I don't know how you knew what would happen later, but I must congratulate you. It took a while for the true genius of your posting to be reveled, but I am so happy that it was.

 

So there I was pacing around the backyard a bit trying to figure out how to respond. Should I offer sympathy? Unless you were completely gas lighting me it would seem that you have a great deal of pain and anger in your life. And I am sorry if that is the case. It is tough to live that way.

 

Should I reply with the anger that your post caused? No, that idea was fairly easy to strike down. There would t be any good that would come of that. I probably will resort to some sarcasm and maybe even satire, but it will all be in good fun. Besides the reaction that your post caused in my household has left me too happy to be angry about it now.

 

Eventually my W came to track me down (apparently she was on break from the line of OMs streaming through the house) and wanted to know what had me all bent out of shape. I turned over my phone and watched her as she started reading.

 

I could see her getting angry and upset to the point where she was sputtering. She couldn't even talk right because she was so mad. I don't know how you did it, but you managed to hit all the right buttons and send my wife so far over the edge that when she came back she had no choice but to confess the truth to me in a way that left no doubt in my mind that she was being completely and brutally honest. I'm not surprised that she went off the deep end given some of the things you were implying about her. And yet, oddly enough, that was not why she was so upset.

 

She practically threw my phone back at me reached up and clamped my head between her hands to make sure I was looking right at her and unleashed such a string of compliments with such intensity that there was no questioning the fact that those words came directly from her heart. She appreciated my strength and kindness and compassion that I have shown her and my willingness to listen to her and hold her and comfort her while she cried over how badly she hurt me. She thanked me for being patient with her while she was lost in shame for the beginning few months when her words and actions were meant to drive me away before I could send her away. She thanked me for the restraint I show as I try to filter out the hurtful words that could destroy her the way she destroyed me and yet still express my feelings of anger and hurt. And she thanked me for letting her have the chance to show me that she could be trusted again and that she was determined to do whatever she needed to let us heal our marriage.

 

The way she looked at me and the strength and intinsity of her words had me overwhelmed. I don't know if I've ever felt so much pride and love for the woman who stood fuming with anger before me. She was so angered and frustrated that someone would dare call into question her feelings about me. She was infuriated that someone would be so disrespectful to me, the man that she loves and respects. So thank you again Here orThere for being the spark that set off her tirade of devotion for me. I will never know how you knew exactly what was needed, but I'm glad that you did.

[mercy]

....(apparently she was on break from the line of OMs streaming through the house)

 

 

:laugh: Priceless!

 

Such a beautiful post! I'd say your wife is very lucky but I think you both are.

[drifter777]

If I listened long enough to you

I'd find a way to believe that it's all true

Knowing that you lied straight-faced while I cried

Still I look to find a reason to believe

[HereNorThere]

So obviously I was angered by your post. But that was simply my initial reaction. But then again that was the point wasn't it? Why else would you post something so disrespectful and full of shaming words and phrases unless you were trying to piss me off? I don't know how you knew what would happen later, but I must congratulate you. It took a while for the true genius of your posting to be reveled, but I am so happy that it was.

 

So there I was pacing around the backyard a bit trying to figure out how to respond. Should I offer sympathy? Unless you were completely gas lighting me it would seem that you have a great deal of pain and anger in your life. And I am sorry if that is the case. It is tough to live that way.

 

Should I reply with the anger that your post caused? No, that idea was fairly easy to strike down. There would t be any good that would come of that. I probably will resort to some sarcasm and maybe even satire, but it will all be in good fun. Besides the reaction that your post caused in my household has left me too happy to be angry about it now.

 

Eventually my W came to track me down (apparently she was on break from the line of OMs streaming through the house) and wanted to know what had me all bent out of shape. I turned over my phone and watched her as she started reading.

 

I could see her getting angry and upset to the point where she was sputtering. She couldn't even talk right because she was so mad. I don't know how you did it, but you managed to hit all the right buttons and send my wife so far over the edge that when she came back she had no choice but to confess the truth to me in a way that left no doubt in my mind that she was being completely and brutally honest. I'm not surprised that she went off the deep end given some of the things you were implying about her. And yet, oddly enough, that was not why she was so upset.

 

She practically threw my phone back at me reached up and clamped my head between her hands to make sure I was looking right at her and unleashed such a string of compliments with such intensity that there was no questioning the fact that those words came directly from her heart. She appreciated my strength and kindness and compassion that I have shown her and my willingness to listen to her and hold her and comfort her while she cried over how badly she hurt me. She thanked me for being patient with her while she was lost in shame for the beginning few months when her words and actions were meant to drive me away before I could send her away. She thanked me for the restraint I show as I try to filter out the hurtful words that could destroy her the way she destroyed me and yet still express my feelings of anger and hurt. And she thanked me for letting her have the chance to show me that she could be trusted again and that she was determined to do whatever she needed to let us heal our marriage.

 

The way she looked at me and the strength and intinsity of her words had me overwhelmed. I don't know if I've ever felt so much pride and love for the woman who stood fuming with anger before me. She was so angered and frustrated that someone would dare call into question her feelings about me. She was infuriated that someone would be so disrespectful to me, the man that she loves and respects. So thank you again Here orThere for being the spark that set off her tirade of devotion for me. I will never know how you knew exactly what was needed, but I'm glad that you did.

 

I live in the United States. OF COURSE I have a great deal of anger in my life (lol.)

 

Dude, take something away from this. Why do I evoke such a response out of her? Because I wasn't being all nice and enabling. I told the blantant, harsh, true nature of the reality of your situation. I practiced what I preached and IT WORKED. I didn't sugarcoat it and give it to you with a warm cup of Mom's cocoa. I didn't hold you while you cried about the person you cheated on me with. I did what you don't have the strength to do. At least think about that for a little bit. And maybe download a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it a few times.

 

Now I have to admit, I got super excited because in my mind I was like "Yes! He's finally going to get a full confession out of her. No more trickle truth." Instead you got some compliments and sympathy. But hey, I guess that's better than nothing. If it made you feel better, Ill consider that my good deed for the day.

 

I'll stop posting on your threads and I apologize for upsetting you. Believe it or not, I wasn't trying to. I was hoping that I could convince you to seek the full truth so you at least know what you're dealing with. I guess my takeaway from this is that not everyone values the truth in the same way I do. If you can live without knowing it all, I wish you the best. It's just not something I fully understand. Best of luck and godspeed.

Edited May 23, 2017 by HereNorThere

[Unforseen]

I live in the United States. OF COURSE I have a great deal of anger in my life (lol.)

 

Dude, take something away from this. Why do I evoke such a response out of her? Because I wasn't being all nice and enabling. I told the blantant, harsh, true, nature of the reality of your situation. I practiced what I preached and IT WORKED. I didn't sugarcoat it and give it to you with a warm cup of Mom's cocoa. I didn't hold you while you cried about the person you cheated on me with. I did what you don't have the strength to do. At least think about that for a little bit. And maybe download a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it a few times.

 

Now I have to admit, I got super excited because in my mind I was like "Yes! He's finally going to get a full confession out of her. No more trickle truth." Instead you got some compliments and sympathy but hey, I guess it's better than nothing. If it made you feel better, Ill consider that my good deed for the day.

 

I'll stop posting on your threads and I apologize for upsetting you. Believe it or not, I wasn't trying to. I was hoping that I could convince you to seek the full truth so you at least know what you're dealing with. I guess my takeaway from this is that not everyone values the truth in the same way I do. If you can live without knowing it all, I wish you the best. It's just not something I fully understand. Best of luck and godspeed.

 

It is all good. I thank you for your apology and assure you that I bear no hard feelings towards you. That is part of what makes this forum so useful: All the different experiences and viewpoints. I took that leap of faith that I have the complete timeline and the belief that I do has been reinforced by how she has been changing and improving from even pre affair days and by how she has opened up and given me just about everything I have asked for in regards to her activities during the affairs.

 

But what it comes down to is I am happy with who she is becoming and the work she is doing to help heal the breach she opened between us. I can understand why you would question all of this. There are some days where I cannot believe the progress we have made in just under two years. It may sound like so much bull crap to you, but in all honesty we are doing better and are stronger as a married couple now than we ever were in the first 18 years.

 

I think we survived that long on essentially raw stubbornness, a great reluctance to prove various family members wrong (we got married right out of high school much to the dismay of those family members who swore we would never last 2 years) and an deep seated love for eachother that we never knew how to properly implement. We were too busy surviving and cutting each other to pieces.

 

As sick as it may sound her affairs may have been the best thing that could have happened to us. Yes it was a horrible betray of me, but realatively speaking no where near as bad as it could have been (yes I am choosing to believe that the costco sized package of toothbrushes and all the towels on the clothes line are actually the neighbors (sorry...satire again... (it's a bad habit of mine...I have several written warnings at work that day so))). But her betrayal opened up the world of MC and IC to us which was something we had never really considered before. MC and IC helped us see how we had been going at things the entirely wrong way and we learned tools and skills to help improve our relationship. Our raw desire to stay together and make each other happy has helped us push through the many difficulties that arose from the affairs and the struggles of R.

 

I just hope you are not offended. Here you were offering a very valid viewpoint based on what you have seen and experienced and here's this Unforseen idiot who can't take of the stupid looking rose colored glasses long enough to even read what you took the time and effort to write. I tell you truthfully that I appreciate your contribution and others that had a realistic and even harsh slap of reality for me. I did read and consider each one and used them reevaluate my stance that R was the way to go and rethink what answers I had been given by my wife and, to her frustration, go back over things several times from different angles to see if anything changed in what she had to say.

 

In the end, I went with what worked for me and my marriage. And right now I am very happy with how things are turning out. Yes, there is always the chance that I am wrong and wrong to trust my W, but unless she gives me reason to doubt her again I will stay with the path I have chosen.

 

For you strength is cutting that hard line of harsh reality and backing it up with a promise of my way or the highway. For me it was offering compassion and caring to one who did not deserve it. If I read your response correctly then your approach worked for you in your situation. My approach is working for me in my situation. So we will disagree on what strength is and what the best way to deal with a WS is. I can live with that if you can and look forward to future sparing matches out on the board.