Got it Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Not quite sure what you're getting at but mk. If you don't understand what he is talking about then you need to get it figured out. In regards to life being a gamble . . . one needs to know when its a smart gamble or a bad one. . . Link to post Share on other sites
eightytwenty Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would have divorce papers waiting for him when he got back home. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would have divorce papers waiting for him when he got back home. Just curious but would you do that even if he were to go with guy friends or just alone? Keep in mind a lot of people's work schedules make it so people in general just have different vacation times and he could still cheat on you if he wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 If you don't understand what he is talking about then you need to get it figured out. In regards to life being a gamble . . . one needs to know when its a smart gamble or a bad one. . . I see what he means now. I wouldn't do it if my partner was uncomfortable but I personally would tell her to go and have a good time. I feel if the relationship is strong emough cheating wouldn't happen. But hey I could be wrong too. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Trust isn't just given blindly to people. It's built (or broken) over time as you see the actions of your partner. Trust is built stronger, when your partner shows through their actions that they care about you and they care and protect the relationship. Someone's personal boundaries would go towards either building or breaking one's trust in them. If a partner asked to go away for a weekend with a member of the opposite sex, I would say yes, of course. And then I would break up with them. Not because I felt they were going to cheat (I would have no way of knowing), but because through their boundaries, I could see they weren't someone that wanted to protect the relationship. And to be clear, pretty much this exact scenario has happened to me, and it played out just as above. I broke up with her. A partner I want to spend a lifetime with would know it's not appropriate and therefore would never ask me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Trust isn't just given blindly to people. It's built (or broken) over time as you see the actions of your partner. Trust is built stronger, when your partner shows through their actions that they care about you and they care and protect the relationship. Someone's personal boundaries would go towards either building or breaking one's trust in them. If a partner asked to go away for a weekend with a member of the opposite sex, I would say yes, of course. And then I would break up with them. Not because I felt they were going to cheat (I would have no way of knowing), but because through their boundaries, I could see they weren't someone that wanted to protect the relationship. And to be clear, pretty much this exact scenario has happened to me, and it played out just as above. I broke up with her. A partner I want to spend a lifetime with would know it's not appropriate and therefore would never ask me. What was the scenario exactly? I'm not saying you should go on vacation without her if you very well can. It's just some people have different work schedules and different times they can take vacation. I guess you can always talk to your partner and coordinate vacation time...most companies I'm pretty sure let you choose when, but there are companies that *don't even allow* vacation time. An example that I think someone here already put out: If my wife say wanted to see a band that was a few hours away, but I wasn't into that band, I wouldn't just tell her she couldn't go. I just don't think that's fair. I probably wouldn't be okay with it if we just started dating, but like you said if we were together long enough and she was able to build some trust at that point, I probably would be comfortable enough to let her go. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Either way I think this is a good conversation and I'm learning a lot, so thank you for all your guys input, even if we don't agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 One last bump. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) You sound very closed minded. She may well have a very solid and good marriage as a result of being what you regard as "closed minded". Often it's life experience and a certain amount of wisdom gained through those experiences that result in people being pretty firm, confident and decisive about these boundaries. Looking back through the thread and seeing the number of times you've bumped it, I would suggest that you might be somebody who would create a situation like this in part because you like a bit of conflict. Like TFY says, if you want drama and excitement there are all sorts of ways of getting that (extreme sports, music concerts etc). Rejecting the need for the kind of boundaries (in relationships) that are under discussion here does tend to very frequently result in a lot of unnecessary and often quite unpleasant conflict, drama and emotional fall out. If your spouse can't make a holiday on the dates you want to go, compromise on those dates and find times they can go. It seems to me that the obstacles you're presenting to prevent a person from going on holiday with their life partner are not insurmountable. Edited February 16, 2017 by Taramere 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Either way I think this is a good conversation and I'm learning a lot, so thank you for all your guys input, even if we don't agree. I don't think you've learnt much at all from it, to be honest, considering that you're still throwing out the "well some people don't trust their partners I guess" line despite multiple people having taken much of their time to explain to you that it's not about trust. Not surprised that nobody is biting any more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 You sound very closed minded. to me this poster sounds sure of what she would not be comfortable with...that isn't closed minded its honest.....a big fat no...is honesty 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Poutrew Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I don't think trust has anything to do with it. While I was growing up, my parents never took a vacation. For whatever reason, lack of money, time, or scheduling conflicts, it never happened. Never did it even occur to either of them to take a separate vacation, especially with someone else. It just wasn't in their lexicon of concepts. It would make as much sense as me saying that I am tired of my right hand, and I want to chop it off for a while.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) i would not be comfortable with it...because if my partner if i had one went on a vacation with another woman...i would feel jealousy...and i dont like that emotion.....i would want to be with him on a vacation with him i would rather he wait or i wait until we could vacation together..... and i might just tie the woman he planned on going with to a ceiling fan and hit top speed.....till she gave up the idea of vacationing with my guy...then i would let her go and watch her spin roudn the room for a giggle.......im kidding....maybe not .....who knows....wouldnt happen anyway.i would set my guy free and he could then go on a vacation with another woman after i had tied them both to the celing fan.....deb Edited February 17, 2017 by todreaminblue Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 I don't think you've learnt much at all from it, to be honest, considering that you're still throwing out the "well some people don't trust their partners I guess" line despite multiple people having taken much of their time to explain to you that it's not about trust. Not surprised that nobody is biting any more. I just don't see it as anything else other than a trust or insecurity issue. You guys say it's a boundary that you just don't cross and that it is disrespectful so if that's the case I'm just curious as to why it pisses people off so much if they do indeed trust and know that their partner wouldn't do anything. Why not just be happy for your partner and let them go? Don't change who you are, it just seems that deep down either you're scared of them being unfaithful or just feel like it's a slap in the face. I just like to look at it as more an internal thing rather than a 'that pisses me off so he's being disrespectful' kind of thing. For example. Say my gf cheats on me. Logic would tell me, "Oh it was just an in the moment kind of thing and she lost control. It would make logical sense to forgive her". Emotion would tell me, "That hurt me. What you just did is something you ONLY do with your significant other, not anyone else." In that case the emotion would be justified because logically speaking, you should only do things that define a 'monogamous relationship' with said partner. I don't view going on vacation or traveling to places as something you only do with a significant other. Friends, no matter what gender IMO, shouldn't be off the table for that kind of thing. Why not create memories with multiple people and not just one? Traveling with a certain someone even just one on one doesn't necessarily automatically mean it's a romantic kind of thing. If there's chemistry involved with the two people then yeah (and thats completely fine. If they end up liking someone more than they like me then it just wasn't meant to be and they have a right to leave me in that case) There are opposite sex friendships that stay strictly platonic and nothing else. Like I said earlier I have an opposite sex friend coming to visit me soon. Her husband almost couldn't come but that didn't make him stop her from coming. We'll probably do some one on one traveling as well. I can understand not wanting your partner to do something like that earlier on in the relationship since like the other poster said trust isn't just blindly given you gotta build it. So maybe after a year or 2. The way I see it as long as you make your SO a priority there should be no problems. So say don't go on too many trips without her. Do stuff together as much as you can. If you're doing trips with other people aside from her constantly then clearly there's a problem, but moderately doing activity with other people shouldn't be a problem. Just as long as the significant other is getting the most attention. Idk. You can think I'm stupid or crazy if you want. This is just how I look at it. I'm still fairly young (26) so maybe when I'm older my attitude will change. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 She may well have a very solid and good marriage as a result of being what you regard as "closed minded". Often it's life experience and a certain amount of wisdom gained through those experiences that result in people being pretty firm, confident and decisive about these boundaries. Looking back through the thread and seeing the number of times you've bumped it, I would suggest that you might be somebody who would create a situation like this in part because you like a bit of conflict. Like TFY says, if you want drama and excitement there are all sorts of ways of getting that (extreme sports, music concerts etc). Rejecting the need for the kind of boundaries (in relationships) that are under discussion here does tend to very frequently result in a lot of unnecessary and often quite unpleasant conflict, drama and emotional fall out. If your spouse can't make a holiday on the dates you want to go, compromise on those dates and find times they can go. It seems to me that the obstacles you're presenting to prevent a person from going on holiday with their life partner are not insurmountable. 'Conflict' is what helps us learn. What helps us see the other side of the argument. I would prefer that people agree with me, but I still like to learn. The fact that people disagree gives me a chance to understand the nature of people and relationships a little better. If it annoys you I'm sorry but these are the kind of things I like to learn about. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Why not just be happy for your partner and let them go? Don't change who you are You're still not getting it. The kind of partner that some of us have (or want) is the kind of person who would not want to go. There is no question of 'letting' or 'not letting' them, and no changing needed. I'm not sure why you think everyone in the world is chomping at the bit to fly off on vacation with a platonic friend of the opposite sex, if their partner would only 'let them'. I certainly have no desire to spend my money and leave on a 1-on-1 vacation with any of my male friends, for one thing. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
eightytwenty Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just curious but would you do that even if he were to go with guy friends or just alone? Keep in mind a lot of people's work schedules make it so people in general just have different vacation times and he could still cheat on you if he wanted to. That wasn't you're question. Now its the same sex? I wouldn't care, and he goes on business trips. Why would he go on vacation alone? that would be HUGE red flags to me. One of the women he works with, they have went together on a business trip. My fiancé works closely with plenty of women, but to go on a vacation with one of the women instead of me, yes I would be pissed. You can only be that naïve. I think he would do the same if I asked to go on vacation with a guy. You don't cross those lines. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 You're still not getting it. The kind of partner that some of us have (or want) is the kind of person who would not want to go. There is no question of 'letting' or 'not letting' them, and no changing needed. I'm not sure why you think everyone in the world is chomping at the bit to fly off on vacation with a platonic friend of the opposite sex, if their partner would only 'let them'. I certainly have no desire to spend my money and leave on a 1-on-1 vacation with any of my male friends, for one thing. Yup, this IS the point. People who value a long term monogamous relationship naturally have boundaries that protect the relationship. They'd never want to go on a vacation with someone of the opposite sex. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 'Conflict' is what helps us learn. What helps us see the other side of the argument. I would prefer that people agree with me, but I still like to learn. The fact that people disagree gives me a chance to understand the nature of people and relationships a little better. If it annoys you I'm sorry but these are the kind of things I like to learn about. My observation about you bumping your own thread doesn't stem from annoyance so much as it stems from curiosity. There's a recurring theme in this thread about other people being insecure, but I don't get a strong sense of you being a particularly secure person. Bumping your own thread repeatedly makes you look kind of needy. Most people, if they're not getting the level of attention they hoped for from a thread will tend to just accept it and move on rather than repeatedly bumping in an effort to get attention. Then there's this... Ugh. The world is full of insecure people. I can't stand it. I have a friend visiting me and she's of the opposite sex and her husband almost couldn't come but he didn't stop her. It's not like it's impossible ro remain platonic. Man. Makes me sick. If this issue isn't affecting you personally, why do other people's decisions and boundaries trouble you to the extent that you can't stand it and it makes you sick? If you have that strong a reaction to it, then I would suggest it's because other people's boundaries - their sense of certainty about what they will and won't put up with - is in some way threatening to you. Perhaps deep down there are boundaries you would like to implement in your own life...but maybe there's a risk that if you do implement them, other people will reject you and your boundaries and walk away. That's the nature of having boundaries. There is always that risk that other people will reject you for having and implementing them. And maybe, despite all your talk of being a risk taker, that's one particular risk you're not prepared to take. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Meh...I guess I'm just all about freedom. Everyone has their own personal boundaries and there's nothing disrespectful about that. Everyone has stuff that they just won't put up with, but like for example, there are guys and girls whose boundaries are in the range of if their significant other even TALKS to a person of the opposite sex, then they'll leave or won't put up with it. That's just not something I can be okay with. It's a very common thing, too. And despite how common it is, I just don't think it's right. If that's a boundary that someone needs, then I can't change that about them and they have every right to be 'wrong' in that manner. Emotions are emotions, that's just who you are as a person and only the person themselves can change that, but it just doesn't sit well with me. I won't stop being friends with someone if they have this kind of point of view, but I couldn't have a S.O. like that. It's one thing to talk to a person of the opposite sex MORE SO than your significant other (even talking to someone of the same sex more than your S.O. would cause problems I would think since at that point it would seem that there isn't much of a relationship going on with said S.O.) I'm not bumping the topic to get an answer that I want. I mean c'mon there have already been some people in this thread that have somewhat the same stance as me. I just enjoy talking about these things. I'm learning a lot from you guys, even if you don't think I am. I can see why you guys would think that, though. It probably seems like I keep bumping the topic and laying down my point of view in hopes that you'll take that stance, and you're right. I would hope you would see it my way. But like I said before, 'conflict' is what makes the world so colorful. Conflict is what establishes how we are different. You don't need to necessarily *agree* with those differences, but one should at least learn to respect the fact that people have those differences. And that's what I'm trying to do here. I want to learn to respect the differences. I don't necessarily need to respect the difference itself, but I should at least learn to respect the fact that people *have* those differences, and then maybe eventually I can learn to respect the difference itself, if that makes sense. So for example, say someone is totally against abortion. In that case, they wouldn't respect the opinion that abortion is okay, but they should at least respect the fact that someone has that opinion and their right to express why they have that opinion so they can maybe learn to see it their way, even if they don't end up seeing it their way. That can be really hard but if you can learn to respect the fact that someone has that opinion while at the same time disagreeing with it, I think that's great. That's why I'm here...you guys are teaching me. Maybe one of these days I can learn to agree with you. I'm still young. The longest relationship I've been in is about a year. So yeah. Still have a lot to learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Does anyone have anything else to say in regards to what I just said? If I'm looking at it wrong or w/e? If not I'll just let this topic die. I'm sure you guys are tired of me by now. Thanks for putting up with my stubborn ass. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiralOut Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 My partner would never want to go on vacation 1 on 1 with a female friend, and I wouldn't ever want to vacation with just a male friend, no matter how platonic we may be. There's a big difference between going on a 2 day trip vs going out for a coffee. If he went on a trip with a group of friends (both male and female) or with his family, that's fine. If one of us wanted to meet an opposite-sex friend in another country/state/province, the best compromise would be going on the trip together as a couple, doing some sightseeing, and then meeting up with the friend for dinner or lunch or something. I get what you're saying about reminescing over memories and hanging out 1 on 1 like the good old times. In my 20s, many of my friends were male and most of us were single, so hanging out together was never an issue. One of my male friends disappeared completely once he got in a LTR with a woman who, in his words, was "really jealous" of him talking to other women. I don't think that's healthy or normal. However, certain boundaries are normal and healthy. Nobody should suddenly ditch their opposite-sex friends due to a LTR, but it's normal to have new limits for how much alone time you spend together out of respect for the girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband. Friendships change and evolve over time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JustGettingBy Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 If its a blood family member (her brother for example) or if I knew 100% the guy was gay, yes. If he's a straight guy unrelated to her, sorry, no. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Does anyone have anything else to say in regards to what I just said? If I'm looking at it wrong or w/e? If not I'll just let this topic die. I'm sure you guys are tired of me by now. I think you really have do some introspection and figure out your core values when it comes to relationships. What are your personal boundaries that you impose on yourself? Perhaps a committed, monogamous relationship isn't for you. Maybe you'd do better in an open relationship. Or maybe no relationship at all, just casually dating multiple people. As long as you're honest with yourself, and your partner / partners then live and let live! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think you really have do some introspection and figure out your core values when it comes to relationships. What are your personal boundaries that you impose on yourself? Perhaps a committed, monogamous relationship isn't for you. Maybe you'd do better in an open relationship. Or maybe no relationship at all, just casually dating multiple people. As long as you're honest with yourself, and your partner / partners then live and let live! Nah. I'm not really the polyamorous type. Although I have considered just giving it a try just for the sake of the experience. I'm just all about freedom, that's all. But if you have your own boundaries for what makes a relationship monogamous, I can and will respect that. Link to post Share on other sites
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