Author ZayKayWill Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 I have a much more realistic (some would say pessimistic) view of human nature than many. A Chinese friend I had once said, "It's the confident swimmer that drowns". It's great to be a confident person and all but a healthy dose of mistrust of yourself and others is also a positive. I believe people in general have way to much confidence in themselves when it comes to their abilities at self control and wind up putting themselves in situations they can't handle. And add a little alcohol to the mix and I trust myself and others even less. I think you get what I'm saying. True but I don't think it's fair to blame that on human nature. In fact I had brought this subject up to my ex gf. I had told her that I kinda didn't want to go out and drink because of fear that alcohol would make me lose my inhibitions. She herself said if the relationship is strong enough it shouldn't be a problem... And she's right. No matter what, you have control. Not of your feelings, but your actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetfish Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 The answer is NO. Seriously, is that a gamble your willing to take? You want your wife or husband to have an experience with someone else? Let me ask you a question? Say your not into art, but your wife is and wants to go on vacation and this man she is going with is into art and they go to museums, drink different wines at an art gallery, and later on that night they dress up and have dinner at a high scale historic resturant. He offers her to dance. All friends right? Nope nothing sexual happened? What just happen was a deep bond between two people. I know everyone is going to toss the trust word around... but thats a gamble im not willing to take. If you know the science of "pair bonding" no amount of trust will control the humans release of hormones and add drinks to the mix. Your odds in this gamble is like betting against the house. Your S.O. should not put you in such a scenario where she is asking you to go on vacation with another man... unless they are like close friends for years or he is gay or she is gay. Thats the respect each other should have. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
carolann Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 My husband and I have an old fashioned traditional marriage and we take our vacations together. There's no way either of us would consider a vacation with an OS friend. A group vacation? Sure. Might seem boring to others, but it works for us. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Man. Seems like the people here give a lot of power to temptation. *tsk tsk* Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 The answer is NO. Seriously, is that a gamble your willing to take? You want your wife or husband to have an experience with someone else? Let me ask you a question? Say your not into art, but your wife is and wants to go on vacation and this man she is going with is into art and they go to museums, drink different wines at an art gallery, and later on that night they dress up and have dinner at a high scale historic resturant. He offers her to dance. All friends right? Nope nothing sexual happened? What just happen was a deep bond between two people. I know everyone is going to toss the trust word around... but thats a gamble im not willing to take. If you know the science of "pair bonding" no amount of trust will control the humans release of hormones and add drinks to the mix. Your odds in this gamble is like betting against the house. Your S.O. should not put you in such a scenario where she is asking you to go on vacation with another man... unless they are like close friends for years or he is gay or she is gay. Thats the respect each other should have. So in other words, your answer is yes, youd be okay with it? xD Link to post Share on other sites
Imported Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 No! I would not do this to her. I will find one that would not do this to me. Until then, I will just find holes to fill. Link to post Share on other sites
Whitestar Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) No. I dont care if its irrational or unreasonable, if my gf told me she wanted to go on holiday with a male 'friend' it would be a deal breaker. I dont think I would be happy about her going on holiday without me at all to be honest. I wouldn't do that to her... Edited January 8, 2017 by Whitestar 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shepp Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I would never cheat. Ever. I know that for a fact. I dont buy into any of this type of philosophy for a second... A Chinese friend I had once said, "It's the confident swimmer that drowns". I dont really care what the world thinks, i know theres zero chance, and as long as my missus knows that too, which she does, shes the only one that matters. And if we want to talk fact, its not the confident swimmer that drowns, look up the last deaths by drowning for as many years as you want, its normally the inexperienced (often child), who isnt used to being in the sea, and hasnt built up the muscles and technique requited over many hours of practice. A confident swimmer will be relaxed and more likely to recover a situation gone wrong, a uncofident swimmer is more likely to panic when they find themselves out of there depth, waste energy and drown. Thats not philosophy thats fact. Coming on to the OP's question, i have some good girl friends within the friendship group i grew up with, but i wouldnt say to one of them lets pop over to Spain for the weekend.... that'd just be weird Not because i think id be tempted to cheat, i wouldnt, im not tempted here, i wouldnt be tempted in Spain, but because being in a relationship with someone is about more than not having sex with other people. I wouldnt say to my best mate (whos a guy) lets go to spain for a weekend. My wife is a huge part of my life, and if we're going somewhere new and cool i want her too come! If she couldnt make it id book it when she could. The only time i might was when me and my best friend when away to compete in a cycle race or play in a tournament or something. I cant think of another scenario where id want to voluntarily go away without my wife. We go right back, we grew up together, we have mutual friends, shes the life of every party, shes so much fun to be around, id miss her. I guess my issue with her wanting to go away with a guy would be, id kind of expect her to feel the same way. Like i say, we have the same mutual friends, and sometimes she'll meet one of them who happens to be a guy, while im working, and they'll have coffee or take the kids to the park and i have no issue. But i dont know why shed want to go away with out me! Id rather be in rainy england with her, than sunny spain without her! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mysterio Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The raw truth is that Men will always for the most part. Look at women in a Romantic way. That is sexual/kissing/hand holding etc. Unless that woman does not physically appeal to her or they have a Brother/Sister.Aunt/Nephew,Mother/Son,Cousin vibes. I have yet to have a female friend really push me to go on some sort of major trip with her. Although I am single. If I was attached. I think I would just bring my Wife/GF with me. Link to post Share on other sites
GunslingerRoland Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Is there a specific point to the trip? Why they are going there together and leaving me out? If it was to go to an out of town concert or something that they had been mutual fans of for years I could see being okay with it, depending on the rest of the context. But if it was just a random vacation, no I don't think that is appropriate. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
blueskyday Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Um, NO. Never. Honestly, if I had a boyfriend who thought it was okay to go on a trip with another woman, I would be done with him. I can't even imagine a husband entertaining the thought at all. Does this level of disrespect really need explanation?? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BlueRidgeMT Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The answer is NO. Seriously, is that a gamble your willing to take? You want your wife or husband to have an experience with someone else? Let me ask you a question? Say your not into art, but your wife is and wants to go on vacation and this man she is going with is into art and they go to museums, drink different wines at an art gallery, and later on that night they dress up and have dinner at a high scale historic resturant. He offers her to dance. All friends right? Nope nothing sexual happened? What just happen was a deep bond between two people. I know everyone is going to toss the trust word around... but thats a gamble im not willing to take. If you know the science of "pair bonding" no amount of trust will control the humans release of hormones and add drinks to the mix. Your odds in this gamble is like betting against the house. Your S.O. should not put you in such a scenario where she is asking you to go on vacation with another man... unless they are like close friends for years or he is gay or she is gay. Thats the respect each other should have.[/quote EXACTLY! People throw out that word 'trust' blah blah. Yea ok. But no reason to open the hen house and INVITE the Fox in. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueRidgeMT Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Um, NO. Never. Honestly, if I had a boyfriend who thought it was okay to go on a trip with another woman, I would be done with him. I can't even imagine a husband entertaining the thought at all. Does this level of disrespect really need explanation?? Apparently it does for some. LMAO :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Apparently it does for some. LMAO :laugh: You don't need to take it personal. Like a few others have said maybe they have a mutual interest in something and they just want to go. NOt all couples have the same vacation time and stuff so I would feel bad if I told my wife she couldn't go have fun with one of her childhood friends or whatever. I trust her. If she's the kind of person that would cheat, she would do it regardless if she was to go on that vacation anyway. So sorry. You don't have me convinced. Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It just sounds to me like you don't think that 2 opposite sex friends can enjoy a vacation weekend together without something more happening. Am I reading you wrong? If I am you're more than welcome to point that out. I think you that you don't "get" certain predilections that every other human has thoroughly integrated into their paradigm, consciously and at the biological level. You are the dude whose girlfriend left because you bought your ex-gf expensive gifts. You didn't understand why it was an issue. You post threads questioning gender boundaries and societal norms relating to potential cuckolding scenarios... it's like questioning why the sun rises in the east, and looking east at the sunrise you wonder if it's all arbitrary and perhaps on this day it's rising in the west. So, as briefly as possible, here's the deal... as biological organisms we are all quite invested in the propagation of our genes. Men worry that they're spending their life's energy investing in progeny that carry another man's genes, and that their own genes will be extinguished at the end of their life cycle. This is the ultimate humiliation, the very definition of failure. We have developed societal norms to try and maintain some stability and order in the way we breed. So you tell us... why is this such a foreign concept to you? Do you really not understand, or do you just enjoy yanking our chain? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Whitestar Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I feel some people on this thread underestimate the significance of social context on an individuals behavior. This not surprising since our culture is fully invested in the myth of Free Will and individual autonomy. If you read the classic experiments in social psychology by Milgram (1963) and Zimbardo (1973) you will understand that social context can easily override an individuals ethics and morals. People are literally different people in different social contexts. If two people have a meal together in a nice restaurant with wine (ie a romantic context) its likely they will experience romantic feelings towards each other. Especially if that person is a ex. Its the same if your partner whats to go drinking and dancing with an ex or go on holiday. For this reason if a woman I was seeing wanted to 'hang out' with her ex I would break up with her. Milgram Experiment | Simply Psychology Stanford Prison Experiment | Simply Psychology Edited January 10, 2017 by Whitestar 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 I think you that you don't "get" certain predilections that every other human has thoroughly integrated into their paradigm, consciously and at the biological level. You are the dude whose girlfriend left because you bought your ex-gf expensive gifts. You didn't understand why it was an issue. You post threads questioning gender boundaries and societal norms relating to potential cuckolding scenarios... it's like questioning why the sun rises in the east, and looking east at the sunrise you wonder if it's all arbitrary and perhaps on this day it's rising in the west. So, as briefly as possible, here's the deal... as biological organisms we are all quite invested in the propagation of our genes. Men worry that they're spending their life's energy investing in progeny that carry another man's genes, and that their own genes will be extinguished at the end of their life cycle. This is the ultimate humiliation, the very definition of failure. We have developed societal norms to try and maintain some stability and order in the way we breed. So you tell us... why is this such a foreign concept to you? Do you really not understand, or do you just enjoy yanking our chain? The only reason why I didn't understand my ex gfs issue is because she also had an ex bf who she considered a *best* friend. So I mean I just kind of assumed we were on the same page in that manner. Had she not told me about her friendship with her ex, I probably would have talked to her about it first or maybe just not told her I guess (some things are just better not said, not because you don't respect her, but because sometimes knowing certain information will trigger unnecessary or inaccurate emotions/perceptions kinda like when you assumed I was a cake eater who was just trying to string my first ex along in my other post). I mean, say you went to the gym and ended up playing tennis or basketball with three girls and these 3 girls out of nowhere gave you their number. You more than likely would just tell them, "Uh...I have a gf/wife, sorry.", but maybe you just didn't want to be rude and perhaps just saw them as someone to play tennis or basketball with. Would you tell your significant other about that? You could...but why would you? What would be the point of that if you didn't even really want to call those girls or didn't have shady intentions in the first place (it'd be great to play tennis or basketball with them again, but no big deal if it's not them I'm playing with)? It would just create unnecessary insecurities in your partner which would likely lead them to wanting to check your phone etc even if in reality there would be no real reason to. I had no problem with their platonic friendship. Like I said before there's a difference between a *close* friend and a *best* friend. If they were close friends that wouldn't be fair to me because as her significant other I should take first priority. That doesn't mean that they can't still talk or still be friends with each other. Just don't hang out or talk to him as much as she does with me. As long as I'm first priority there are no problems. So I guess you could say that me buying that gift for the 1st ex was crossing a boundary or maybe not making the 2nd ex a first priority, but that was only a one time thing and it's not like I haven't bought the 2nd ex gifts of that magnitude or even greater. If I had done it for the 1st ex maybe every holiday or for all her birthdays, then okay that wouldn't be fair at all and that would be a very legit reason to assume that there was something more going on. I have bought generous gifts for my friends in the past (gave one 'girl' friend one of my laptops that I didn't need for Christmas one year...would that have been crossing a boundary if I was in a relationship?), but it's not like I go out of my way to do that for her every year "because she's special". She really needed it at that time, so that's why I did it. The 1st ex was just going through some rough times and well I just felt like being a good friend at that moment. And her boyfriend was cool with it. I had no way of knowing if she really put forth that boundary of "just a best friend and not a close friend" on her end, but I trusted her and its not like she kept their friendship a secret, so w/e. We were pretty close during the time so I didn't feel threatened even though it was very possible that she was cheating, but maybe she wasn't, too. You really never know if your partner is cheating no matter what circumstances you try to put forth to prevent it. Most people would feel uncomfortable with their partner around an ex partner, but I just didn't feel threatened...if our relationship is strong enough there shouldn't be much to worry about if you ask me. <--- this is something my 2ND EX TOLD AND TAUGHT ME) . That said...to answer your question that I bolded: I personally don't believe it to be that simple. The human brain is a huge grey area when it comes to psychology, and this includes evolution as well (ever hear of evolutionary psychology?). Yes, there are certain predilections that are apparent in all humankind aka human nature. In my opinion human nature can be bottled down to 2 simple things: We all have universal emotions (which are influenced and *differentiated* by BOTH our life experience AND genetics) and we are all trying our best to survive in this crazy world. If there's anything I'm missing feel free to add it in. But the point is, just because human nature has certain expected tendencies doesn't mean that these tendencies don't have at least just the potential to change. No matter how many different studies you throw in, every human brain is situationally and genetically different. So I don't accept the argument that we don't have free will. We most definitely do have free will. It doesn't matter what societal pressures are being put on you or what your situation is. No matter what your situation is, the only person who is responsible for their own behavior is the person themselves. Feelings themselves....might be another story, because feelings you essentially can't control. But you can control your actions on how you go about those feelings (some people know how to do it, and others just don't). Let's say someone shot and killed my mom...either I can go through and grieve the awful emotions of the fact that she's gone and I'll never see her again...or I can go on an angry tirade and plot my revenge to kill that person who so gave me the emotions that he caused me to have (while risking going to prison for getting caught). Or...let's say I went out to the bar, got drunk, and ended up cheating on my girlfriend. "Sorry babe. I cheated on you, but it was only because I was drunk. It was the alcohol's fault so no biggy, right?" The alcohol didn't tell you to cheat on your gf. Assuming you weren't black out drunk you had every opportunity to not cheat on her, despite your inhibitions being lowered. My 2nd ex believe it or not had taught me that. I originally felt that alcohol was to blame for why so many people end up cheating in that setting, and maybe alcohol does have a correlation with making people cheat more. But correlation does not imply causation. Her point was if the relationship is strong enough, you would not feel the need to cheat like I had mentioned earlier.Don't forget that humans as of now seem to be the only animal that is capable of using their intelligence to make decisions that other animals are incapable of doing. I know plenty of people who are in relationships and are still pretty good friends with their ex....and they're not polyamorous either. It's not like it's unheard of. It is very rare, so the fact that the majority of the population think that not talking to any exes period is the 'way it should be' isn't that irrational I guess, especially since so many people can't seem to control their temptations when it comes to cheating. But why does that mean that that's how everyone should think. If some people are comfortable and have very good and mature friendships with past lovers, I think that's very respectable, because *not many people can do that*. If you're not comfortable with it, that is fine. Your emotions are your emotions. They are who you are and you should never stop being anyone other than what you believe in to be right for yourself. Just keep an open mind and be aware that some people are different in this regard and can actually make it work. Link to post Share on other sites
doyathinkso Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah well good luck with that. I'm sure you'll be starting yet another thread real soon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalHonesty1980 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Would you be okay with it? This was asked on Quora. Most people said they would not be okay with it and would divorce the person if they were to do that. Like, I get why they would be uncomfortable. It's 2 people of the opposite sex going on vacation where alcohol is involved. At the same time, though, what if nothing really happens? Sure your inhibitions go right out the window when it comes to alcohol and drugs, but like, what if it was an old childhood or university friend? I have 2 friends of the opposite sex who are very attractive whom I've been plastered around a good # of times. Didn't make us want to have sex. If it was my girlfriend or wife I would probably be a bit uncomfortable but I don't think I'd tell them not to go. Because what if she was on vacation and I couldn't go with her because I had to work? Am I really going to tell her not to go on vacation simply because she might cheat? There are drunk people everywhere, especially in vacation setting. It would just seem unfair to her if you ask me. Even if she was alone or with people of the same sex, she could easily meet a guy at the beach or the bar and bring him back to the hotel just like that, you know? Idk what do you guys think? PS: Hope my hypothetical questions aren't annoying any of you. This would be a huge red flag; Why would my significant other want to go on vacation without me? Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah well good luck with that. I'm sure you'll be starting yet another thread real soon. Why do you act like it's a bad thing? You can never ask too many questions. Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) My husband would not get a "NO" from me. He would get a big, fat 'NO"!! Any man that would ask to do this and think it's ok is probably already cheating on you. And I think you know that because you're posting here asking the answer to a question that the answer is obvious. Edited January 11, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Language Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 This would be a huge red flag; Why would my significant other want to go on vacation without me? Couples do it all the time. People have different work schedules. My parents vacation without each other all the time. My dad isn't a big traveler so when my mom goes out to travel she usually goes alone or with other girl friends. No other guy friends as far as I know, though. I don't think my dad would be ok with that for I can recall my mom telling me about how he told her not to go on vacation one time. Don't know all the circumstances but he didn't want her to go and my mom was pretty hurt by it... :/ Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZayKayWill Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 My husband would not get a "NO" from me. He would get a big, fat 'NO"!! Any man that would ask to do this and think it's ok is probably already cheating on you. And I think you know that because you're posting here asking the answer to a question that the answer is obvious. You sound very closed minded. Link to post Share on other sites
BlackCherry Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 It depends on the scenario, but I don't see a problem with it in principle. Partners sometimes have different interests. For example my boyfriend is going to the capital city in a couple weeks with a few friends, I think mostly female, as they're going to a particular club night I have zero interest in. I know one of the friends he had a thing for years ago, they eventually kissed and dated for a week or two but nothing more and have remained friends. She knows about me and I've seen him send couple snaps of us to her and she's told him I'm gorgeous and he's done well, that kinda thing. It boils down to the fact that I trust him. If I'm wrong and he cheats, his boundaries are slack enough it'd have happened sooner or later anyway, I'm his girlfriend not someone to police his behaviour. Similarly, two separate male friend of mine (zero history with either) and I are going on two separate trips for a couple days to see bands my boyfriend has no interest in. We'll share a hotel room with twin beds or a hostel room with others. I asked my bf if he minded me sharing a room with them and he said he didn't, though we'd both draw the line at sharing a bed! He trusts me right back and knows no amount of alcohol or proximity or availability would lead me to do anything to break our faithfulness to one another. I recently visited my best male friend for a week four hours away when my boyfriend was too busy to come. We even kissed in the past, once fourteen years ago! But again, its about trust. You could have filmed the whole trip, and there'd be nothing about it that I wouldn't be happy for bf to see. As long as there's nothing covert about it and both parties are okay with it, you're not purposefully keeping your partner from the friend etc and there's no history of cheating I say go for it. If it was just randomly choosing to take a trip for the sake of sightseeing though, I'd be pretty upset he didn't choose me to do it with or at least ask me along. But for events sure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Why do you act like it's a bad thing? You can never ask too many questions. Changing the words but still asking questions till you get the answer that you want is not seeking the truth just the answer that you want to hear. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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