The wolf in sheep clothing version 2

[Methodical]

Thanks guys, he's not even entertaining himself with excuses - he said both he and I were apparently long gone from it.

 

This speaks volumes.

[katiegrl]

Her #1

 

however I saw he has messaged 30+ women within a couple of weeks in June

 

Yeah that was confusing cause then she said there were no actually messages, just likes and dislikes.

 

Look I am not defending the guy! What he did was lousy, more than lousy, it sucked!

 

I just think after how many years they have been together (three or something like that?)... it's worth a discussion and possible resolution.

 

Not just toss him to the curb.

 

As I said, that is what one poster did when she discovered **** on her bf's phone. She confronted, discussed and now they are as strong as ever. Perhaps even closer for having resolved.

 

That is what I would do anyway... again **** is gonna happen in long term committed RLs. Some of it NOT pretty.

 

You discuss, attempt to resolve and if you can't, okay then toss him to the curb.

 

If he had CHEATED that would have been a dealbreaker.

 

But sometimes when this type of **** happens, if you can discuss and resolve, it makes the RL stronger and brings you closer together!

 

Speaking from experience with my last bf... we had lots of ups and downs and at times it was NOT pretty.

 

I did NOT let it go, I was FURIOUS! But after taking some space, we discussed and resolved and became closer and stronger for it.

[katiegrl]

katie, there's pertinent history here that I think you're unaware of. In addition to that, he's now on dating sites, exchanging likes etc., -

 

- after she's made significant investments in fixing him

- around the time they signed their 2nd lease (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

- during the time they were talking engagement every other day (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

- during the time they were discussing meeting parents for the first time (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

 

Combine the history/precedent w this and it's finito, and no one's jumping the gun or being unfair to think that. The last thing NG needs right now is more doubt or uncertainty.

 

Hmmm, okay thank you jen I was not aware of that.

 

Yeah that changes things a bit.

 

I'm sorry No Go.

 

Hugs

Edited October 5, 2016 by katiegrl

[No_Go]

^Methodical's post describes it exactly. It was mid to late June. Messages were first/second eHarmony stuff - i.e. clicking multiple choice likes/dislikes, not actual writing.

 

He made no excuse. HOWEVER - late June/early July (just after the messages) I remember him saying how now our relationship will mature, we laid the marriage stuff etc. My guess is that was when he decided to deactivate his profile.

 

I don't know if he has seen anybody, likely not unless something happened during the afternoon while I'm still at work At night he was always home waiting for me with just made dinner

 

I haven't been a saint in this relationship either. I've been treating him beyond harshly in several episodes when I was getting frustrated. I just think it stinks because he probably didn't break up with me to have a rent-buddy I can't get this thought out of my mind

 

 

JMO but I think a WHOLE lot of presumptions are being made on this thread by some posters. And hypocrisy.

 

In fact, I know of one woman in particular who found the same thing on her bf's phone, discussed with him, he said it was nothing, he deleted and now they are as strong as ever!

 

No Go, so he admitted it, made no excuse, correct?

 

Would it have been better if he had he come up with some elaborate excuse instead of being honest?

 

Did he meet any of these women?

 

This was back in June, correct, when your RL was rocky and you were fighting? FOUR months ago? And nothing since?

 

No actual messages were exchanged, he never met any of the women?

 

Look I think what he did STINKS!

 

But the way he is being vilified now is beyond the pale IMO.

[No_Go]

Her #1

 

however I saw he has messaged 30+ women within a couple of weeks in June

 

To make clear - these were step 1/2 in eharmony - i.e. not actual writing but multiple-choice questions like 'Where is your dream destination' a b c d

[No_Go]

Jen - when I read your posts I always get in a line.

 

Pretty much that's exaclty the issue - next level on words, search for others in actions

 

katie, there's pertinent history here that I think you're unaware of. In addition to that, he's now on dating sites, exchanging likes etc., -

 

- after she's made significant investments in fixing him

- around the time they signed their 2nd lease (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

- during the time they were talking engagement every other day (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

- during the time they were discussing meeting parents for the first time (in other words, NEXT LEVEL)

 

Combine the history/precedent w this and it's finito, and no one's jumping the gun or being unfair to think that. The last thing NG needs right now is more doubt or uncertainty.

[No_Go]

I wanted to come clear here with some details. I was not the best partner either. I was threatening him that I'll leave back then. He's very insecure with dating, I'm the first woman that e had a ltr with and he's approaching 40. He has fragile ego that I've played upon maybe way too much.

 

No excuses for him though as well. I just didn't want to be the crazy ex that bashes the person that she was building life with. I'll proceed rationally - emotion-free, as much as I can. My lawyer recently went through similar turmoil with her fiancee so she will be on the point with helping me, I trust her fully.

[venusishername]

I am out of my skin. I saw a dating site, eH, ad pop on the screen of my BF of >1.5 years and asked him if his profile is active. Sure enough he refused but I asked him to log in and it was frozen, however I saw he has messaged 30+ women within a couple of weeks in June, basically days after signing their second lease together. There were not visible personal messages (they were exchanging likes and dislikes etc eH sh*t) but who cares. That's EXACTLY at the time we were planning for a trip to family and talking engagement every other day. He said he had the feeling I'd dump him (we had a few big arguments around the time, that's a fact) so he decided to boost his confidence but he hasn't met anyone.

I didn't had even the time to process what's happening, all is blurred. How do I kick out his sad a** from our joined lease (I don't care paying it all)? That's after I put an immense amount of effort to turn him from a dependent man-boy to someone that can hold himself up and I was planning my life with.

He's alone in the house with my pet and all my possessions, I just feel like jumping away from work because I'm sooooo uneasy with him around things I care about...

Wow, No Go. I am so incredibly sorry. Dump this guy, YOU break the lease. Since you are ending things (or I am hoping), unfortunately you have to be the one who moves. He's going to make it real hard if you don't act. Please don't leave it on him to move out. Take it from me, he's going to drag it out and plead with you to stay together. I'm so sorry. You can't fix people, you yourself said "all this effort... man boy.. etc."

 

I don't care if he never met with these people. The fact that he's exchanging communication online dating, is reason enough to see that he's not fully committed to you. If he was worried about you dumping him, *nice excuse*, he wouldn't risk losing you. He wouldn't be one foot out the door. Break this guy loose. You call him a wolf in sheep's clothing another thread... I've never read it. But you admit that he's dishonest. Why try and salvage a relationship like that?

Edited October 5, 2016 by venusishername

[No_Go]

The other thread is of Dis', I borrowed her title because she was describing cheating bf as well.

 

The thing that I was putting tons of effort to straighten things financially etc is I think a lot of the reason for us to get nasty to each other (that's wy I commented on it in your thread as well).

 

But thing is - I was convinced that he's committed. All his words indicated that so the action was backstabbing. The fact that he stayed on the surface very loyal and committed was a big reason to go through obstacles together ... Now I know it was hot air.

 

Wow, No Go. I am so incredibly sorry. Dump this guy, YOU break the lease. Since you are ending things (or I am hoping), unfortunately you have to be the one who moves. He's going to make it real hard if you don't act. Please don't leave it on him to move out. Take it from me, he's going to drag it out and plead with you to stay together. I'm so sorry. You can't fix people, you yourself said "all this effort... man boy.. etc."

 

I don't care if he never met with these people. The fact that he's exchanging communication online dating, is reason enough to see that he's not fully committed to you. If he was worried about you dumping him, *nice excuse*, he wouldn't risk losing you. He wouldn't be one foot out the door. Break this guy loose. You call him a wolf in sheep's clothing another thread... I've never read it. But you admit that he's dishonest. Why try and salvage a relationship like that?

[RecentChange]

Sorry to hear about the turn of events OP. Not to rub it in, but I remember your thread about co-habitating and expenses..... it seemed like this partnership was an uphill battle then.

 

Well, it's a shame this has come to light after leases have been signed, but at least it was before rings were exchanged.

[No_Go]

Sorry to hear about the turn of events OP. Not to rub it in, but I remember your thread about co-habitating and expenses..... it seemed like this partnership was an uphill battle then.

 

Well, it's a shame this has come to light after leases have been signed, but at least it was before rings were exchanged.

 

Recent, this was it, big big time. We had so many meltdowns for expenses/saving/spending/credit building etc, that's why I didn't want to sign a new lease, when I finally did we had a few repercussions. It was all about the *ucking money. He did fix his spending style, paid off debt, we celebrated a day ago a big achievement on his in that respect... But apparently it was sufficient to emasculate him in my presence and he started looking around . Instead of act like a man and leave if he wasn't happy with what he's getting . Then he apparently made up his mind... too late.

[katiegrl]

Recent, this was it, big big time. We had so many meltdowns for expenses/saving/spending/credit building etc, that's why I didn't want to sign a new lease, when I finally did we had a few repercussions. It was all about the *ucking money.

 

He did fix his spending style, paid off debt, we celebrated a day ago a big achievement on his in that respect... But apparently it was sufficient to emasculate him in my presence and he started looking around . Instead of act like a man and leave if he wasn't happy with what he's getting . Then he apparently made up his mind... too late.

 

No Go, a bit confused and just want to make sure I have things correct.

 

You had troubles back in June timeframe, you were fighting, you both were acting out with each other (you admit you were no angel either, stepped on his ego a bit ), the RL was rocky and as such he went on line, exchanged some likes and dislikes with various women.

 

But now currently, four months later, he has straightened up his act, you both celebrated a day ago, but you have now discovered that back in June when you were having troubles, he went on line.

 

Do I have this right?

 

If so, what was sufficient to emasculate him? What was happening back in June, four months ago, when you were having troubles?

 

Just want to be sure I have the facts right, as your above post is a bit confusing (to me).

Edited October 5, 2016 by katiegrl

[No_Go]

Here are the answers:

 

You had troubles back in June timeframe, you were fighting, you both were acting out with each other (you admit you were no angel either, stepped on his ego a bit ), the RL was rocky and as such he went on line, exchanged some likes and dislikes with various women. It was tough April-June. Actual reason: I was ready to buy a house, he was not. We agreed on a shared lease for one more year, me reluctantly. I went resentful on his spending habits for sports, gadgets etc. I said I may not stay after the summer in few arguments - then he apparently went online. Went offilne after a short separation (work trip) when he said he though things through (I DIDN'T know that he's online back then - just knew that we argued and he suddenly got much much nicer).

 

But now currently, four months later, he has straightened up his act, you both celebrated a day ago, but you have now discovered that back in June when you were having troubles, he went on line.

We were getting ready for some counseling and home-buying seminars, his credit bumped 100 points up, all good but we have had some loud talks as well. The one yesterday with the online profile discovery was not related, we were just lying in bed and scrolling on the phone and being slightly agitated for some common friends or something silly like this.

 

If so, what was sufficient to emasculate him? What was happening back in June, four months ago, when you were having troubles? I have referred to signing a lease with him again to help him instead of straightening my sh*t and getting home. The idea was to get the house together

 

No Go, a bit confused and just want to make sure I have things correct.

 

You had troubles back in June timeframe, you were fighting, you both were acting out with each other (you admit you were no angel either, stepped on his ego a bit ), the RL was rocky and as such he went on line, exchanged some likes and dislikes with various women.

 

But now currently, four months later, he has straightened up his act, you both celebrated a day ago, but you have now discovered that back in June when you were having troubles, he went on line.

 

Do I have this right?

 

If so, what was sufficient to emasculate him? What was happening back in June, four months ago, when you were having troubles?

 

Just want to be sure I have the facts right, as your above post is a bit confusing (to me).

[lana-banana]

I usually try to see all sides of a situation, and more often than not I'm the one saying "people aren't bad, they're just misguided". But this guy is rotten to the core. Bits and pieces of his behavior may not seem that terrible, but taken together it's horrendous.

 

1) He got on dating websites while you were fighting. There's no excuse for this. There are all kinds of ways to soothe a wounded ego that don't involve seeking attention from other people. My fiance and I don't hurt each other when we disagree, but I can't ever imagine reaching a point when I consciously sought to talk to other people on a dating site, because that is the point at which a reasonable human ends their current relationship. To hell with him.

 

2) After being confronted he immediately decided you were both done. Um, what? No one who was serious about their long-term partner would do this. If he truly loved you he'd be falling all over himself begging for forgiveness and pledging his undying love to you. Instead he just says "yeah, we're through"? Nope. Nobody's that impulsive. He's been thinking about ending this relationship for a while and hasn't had the guts to tell you, and this was as good a reason as any. To hell with him, again.

 

3) He is willing to fight you for your place. This is where it crosses over into borderline sociopathy to me. When most people break up with their significant others, they want to get the hell out of Dodge. The fact that he feels entitled to your place AFTER all the money you've spent on him is just horrendous. This is not a person with a profound sense of empathy, loyalty or commitment. This is a horrible human being. To. Hell. With. Him.

 

We got your back, girl. We'll be here. And take care of number one.

Edited October 5, 2016 by lana-banana

[Gaeta]

Yeah that was confusing cause then she said there were no actually messages, just likes and dislikes.

 

Look I am not defending the guy! What he did was lousy, more than lousy, it sucked!

 

I just think after how many years they have been together (three or something like that?)... it's worth a discussion and possible resolution.

 

Not just toss him to the curb.

 

As I said, that is what one poster did when she discovered **** on her bf's phone. She confronted, discussed and now they are as strong as ever. Perhaps even closer for having resolved.

 

That is what I would do anyway... again **** is gonna happen in long term committed RLs. Some of it NOT pretty.

 

You discuss, attempt to resolve and if you can't, okay then toss him to the curb.

 

If he had CHEATED that would have been a dealbreaker.

 

But sometimes when this type of **** happens, if you can discuss and resolve, it makes the RL stronger and brings you closer together!

 

Speaking from experience with my last bf... we had lots of ups and downs and at times it was NOT pretty.

 

I did NOT let it go, I was FURIOUS! But after taking some space, we discussed and resolved and became closer and stronger for it.

 

In metro so can't get too much into it but l remember this lady's story.

 

* boyfriend had not gone on dating site since their meeting

 

* a check of profile confirmed that

 

* what she saw was emails notifications from websites that were months old and unopenned.

 

It's a world apart from No_Go BF. Her bf is online and he is checking profiles and he is SOLICITATING women by sending pre fabricated messages. Same darn thing as a live message. The intention of getting womens attention is there!!! And he tried to solicitate 30 women!!!

[katiegrl]

In metro so can't get too much into it but l remember this lady's story.

 

* boyfriend had not gone on dating site since their meeting

 

* a check of profile confirmed that

 

* what she saw was emails notifications from websites that were months old and unopenned.

 

It's a world apart from No_Go BF. Her bf is online and he is checking profiles and he is SOLICITATING women by sending pre fabricated messages. Same darn thing as a live message. The intention of getting womens attention is there!!! And he tried to solicitate 30 women!!!

 

Fair enough.

 

What would you do Gaeta, let's say tomorrow, if you discovered YOUR bf had done this four months ago? During a rocky period in your RL.

 

Just curious.

 

It's just so easy to tell someone else to NEXT, toss him and his stuff to curb, block delete and never look back!!!

 

When in our OWN lives, we would never even consider doing such a thing without attempting to resolve first.

 

As I said, if this were NOT a long term RL, then okay NEXT. I would be the first one to tell her to do so!

 

But this IS a long term committed RL. Three plus years. A lot invested on both sides.

 

Anyway, this is No Go's choice.

 

She said she is going to take some time and do what is best for her.

 

And I for one support her in that endeavor.

Edited October 5, 2016 by katiegrl

[lana-banana]

Katie, HE'S the one who told HER they were both done. He didn't try to apologize, reconcile or make it up to her. He said "well, okay, it's over". I am all for appreciating subtlety and nuance but there isn't any here. Anyone who bails in a long-term relationship that quickly wants it to be over.

[katiegrl]

Katie, HE'S the one who told HER they were both done. He didn't try to apologize, reconcile or make it up to her. He said "well, okay, it's over". I am all for appreciating subtlety and nuance but there isn't any here. Anyone who bails in a long-term relationship that quickly wants it to be over.

 

I know but many people react like that at the spur of the moment, in anger, frustration, whatevs.

 

I sure have! Not proud of it, but I am an emotional person, sometimes I don't react in the "right" way.

 

Perhaps when they sit down and discuss, like two adult rational people, he will understand her POV, feel remorse and apologies. I don't know, just sayin.

 

Anyway it doesn't matter what I think.

 

Again No Go's decision and I trust she will make the best one for her.

[No_Go]

Katie, HE'S the one who told HER they were both done. He didn't try to apologize, reconcile or make it up to her. He said "well, okay, it's over". I am all for appreciating subtlety and nuance but there isn't any here. Anyone who bails in a long-term relationship that quickly wants it to be over.

 

Not to defend him but Katie has a point - he reacts that way to everything. He gave me once a lengthy explanation that is a learned mechanism from therapy. Of course he could have been bulsh*tting me back then - it was for something minor and I reacted as well that his lack of response is sociopathic ..

[Dis]

NG, I'm so sorry hun!!!

 

You're world must be turned upside down right now

 

It's such an awful feeling to be so blind-sided by the person we care about...to one day discover they are something so different than what they presented to us

 

I know you mentioned you made mistakes and that you didnt see this coming...but pls pls dont blame yourself. We all f*ck up in relalationships but that does not give our SO a free pass to do something like this. And sometimes.....no matter what we do...no matter how hard we try to sniff out the bad guys....we cant avoid them all....it is not your job to be a detective and to pick up on signs of your SO betraying you...you were as cautious as you could be...thats all you can do

 

I agree with the others...I think you need to get out of dodge as quickly as possible...I cant imagine what it must feel like to have to stay in the same home as him

 

Someone also pointed out that he already had one foot out the door...otherwise he would be trying to salvage the relationship....I agree with this...and as far as him claiming he is "conditioned" to be this way...thats bs....a guy with a backbone and a good heart would do anything to keep you...if he cant fight for your relationship now...he doesnt have what it takes to uphold his end of the bargin later on

 

Again NG, I'm so so sorry. We're all here for you. You keep being the strong, smart woman you are and you'll make it through this. Xoxo

Edited October 5, 2016 by Disillusionment373

[Gaeta]

Fair enough.

 

What would you do Gaeta, let's say tomorrow, if you discovered YOUR bf had done this four months ago? During a rocky period in your RL.

 

It would be devastating.

 

* I would consider the circumstances.

 

* I would consider the over all health of our relationship since beginning.

 

* I would consider his motive, and his level of honesty and if he is remorseful.

 

No_Go has qualified her BF of child-man that she had to work on to transform him into someone half decent. I think this is the result of when you meet someone and you think you can change them. They never keep that fake front for very long.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Wow NoGo so sorry to read this about your situation.

How horrible. If there is one thing my failed engagement taught me is I am NEVER "nursing someone back to health" again. Once they feel strong enough it's like they are back on their feet and all they see in us is that person who saw them at their worst.

 

I'm sorry. I hope you have the strength to not let him talk you into staying. That's so wrong what he did. Fck that "ego boost" gees what will he do next time he is down in the dumps about life, actually go through with cheating? What a despicable thing to do!

[No_Go]

Wow, I'm living in a sh*t show - 2 days <3 h sleep.

He's acting absolutely psychotic, and detached, and scarily trying to justify his actions!! We're supposed to talk hopefully constructively tonight and then will spend the weekend separately.

The lease is a sh*t show as well - we're jointly and severally liable, so if I leave and he doesn't pay the whole thing, I'll still be liable. I'll need to break it with the landlord before making moves or he can turn this into a nightmare. I can't afford having derogatory remark on my credit right before buying a house (what I am planning to do in the spring).

[elaine567]

I hate to go through it not because I'm soooo attached - I put sh*t ton of effort in these past months to get him in shape, communicate about him with my estranged mother and what not. It was an efforts off the charts for a non-marital relationship, I had counseling&house buying seminars scheduled for us this month, trip to my home country and other things not worth describing but significant. All HIS friends are asking me when are we marrying - I may need to tell them the truth but hate being THAT b*tchy ;(

 

I guess he may have felt the need to get some of his autonomy back.

 

1. Power and Control

 

There is often an undercurrent of resentment in the cheater’s decision to have an affair, so affairs commonly have a retributive element to them. There are often power struggles within the marriage and even regular compromises can build resentment. In chatting these issues through with cheaters, it is apparent how they often use the affair as a way to exercise their personal power in their lives – they’ve made a significant choice for themselves without having to consult their spouse or compromise their own desires.

During an affair, the cheater has all the control. They are possess all the facts and decide who has access to that same level of information. They decide what they tell their spouse, what they tell the affair partner, and what the rules are for the affair. They withhold access to information that might give others power in the situation, and use that withholding to preserve their marriage while enjoying the escape and sanctuary the affair represents.

Whilst few will admit it, an affair is often the cheater’s own private rebellion against societal norms, familial expectations, religious teachings, and their own dissatisfactions. This can covertly undermine a dynamic in which the cheater believes themselves trapped or in some way disadvantaged. The Infidelity Megafecta

[No_Go]

Would this power issue explain his erratic behavior now as well? I can't believe I spent so long with someone who was internally resenting me and didn't say a word until this fiasco

 

I guess he may have felt the need to get some of his autonomy back.