Question for OM/OW - why a coward?

[Arieswoman]

MWM #72

 

i view my wh as a coward for being too fearful to express himself to me about his concerns before he started the affair. For thinking that an affair was the answer, when about 3000 yrs of human history says otherwise. Had he been man enough up front, we could have tackled his demons together. Instead he found an equally damaged mow to divert himself. I don't view her as a coward so much as a damaged opportunist -

 

 

^^^^^ Likewise

[Midwestmissy]

But Lois, she got a lie too. And she gets her lumps in the end too. So even if the mow still believes that I have my wh under lock and key, kept against his will in a bad marriage from which she could free him, she lost her job at 50, after 18 yrs in the same place, what was left of her reputation, her colleagues, and her family got to find out what she was actually doing at work. If she's still believing the lie (and I doubt mow is) she's still hanging on to a lie, which is a sad life. I know that because I believed my wh was faithful, which was a lie, and my life was pathetic, even while I believed in him.

[notmyselfnow]

Only if you choose to stay with him.

 

There's no rule that says you HAVE to stay with a cheater.

 

I disagree. It's not only if I choose to stay with him. The heartbreak and betrayal stay with me - regardless of if I stay or leave.

 

It's going to follow me in this relationship, or the next, and throughout my entire life. It has changed me forever. I will never fully trust another person within the context of a relationship ever again. After all, the man I had been with for over a decade, whom I thought would never betray me...did. He looked straight into my eyes and lied to me about the OW as I held the evidence in my hand ready to read to him.

 

What's to say another would not do the same? I will never trust men in the same way again. I can't get out of feeling this way even if I leave. This is me now, and I liked the old me so much better but she's gone.

[Lois_Griffin]

It's like I want her to KNOW that he didn't love her or care for her and that the stuff he said about what me was bs; and I'm angry that she is going around telling everyone how our marriage is going to fail because I'm such a terrible person, that he's choosing me out of duty to the children even though he hates me, and that that is what makes him a coward.

I'm curious as to why you think he had NO problem lying about you to this disgusting extent, but that he wasn't able to claim he loved her? I'd be willing to bet good money he DID tell her that - many times. He probably future-faked the HELL out of her, too. Look, in order to keep the adulation coming for YEARS, he had to give her something. You don't maintain an ongoing thing with someone for years and act as though you can barely stand them. So you can bet he was future faking her and probably telling her he loved her.

 

But he's not going to admit that to you.

 

He's still lying to you and I'd also be willing to bet good money he got her to lie to you too about them never proclaiming their love for each other.

 

The first thing a cheater usually does after lying their face off on D-Day is to run to their affair partner and tell them what they admitted to and what they DIDN'T admit to. Often, they'll ask their affair partner to go along with whatever story they told their BS should the BS come looking for information. No doubt, your husband contacted her after D-Day and told her what he'd admitted to and asked to stick to the same story.

 

Just because they both denied that they ever said "I love you" doesn't make it true. She's likely lying for him. Pitifully enough, while she's angry as hell that he's hiding behind your skirt now that there's been a D-Day, she's STILL hoping for a future with him so she's not going to rat him out all the way. That's what prevents her from really throwing him under the bus and telling you everything - hope that he'll one day come back to her.

 

Your husband's story is a bunch of hogwash, designed to make himself look as innocent as possible. Amazingly, all his physical liaisons with her were when he was 'drunk' - would he have you believe that all the talking and texting they did for YEARS in between those romps were also only when he was 'drunk' as well?

 

She's calling him a coward because he future faked her and probably told her if there was ever a D-Day, he'd come clean with you, leave you because you're such a 'horrible' person, and come galloping to her on his white steed so they could have their happily ever after. But that didn't happen when he got caught. Instead, he threw HER under the bus, claiming he's repulsed by her and she's disgusting and pitiful and he couldn't stand her but he got sex from her so that's why he bothered with her and blah blah blah. He did the exact opposite of what he probably told her he'd do if there was ever a D-Day.

 

And THAT'S why she's so mad and can't accept his complete about-face and that's why she's coming at you so fiercely. Because he lied to her and future faked her.

 

I often wonder why a cheater can't be bothered to do jack SH*T to work on their marriages until they're caught cheating - then suddenly, they become super spouse and have all this 'remorse' and all this love for their BS. Seriously - think about it. Just the day before their D-Day, these cheaters were cruising along living a double life and lying to their spouses in order to KEEP that double life going, then the next day D-Day hits and they're suddenly all 'remorseful' and want to be the best spouse they can possibly be and want to put all this effort into their marriage when only DAYS before they were barely doing the absolute minimum.

 

It just rings so damned hollow.

 

I'm not a BS or an OW. I've just read this same story over and over and over and over and they're all basically the same.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Lois_Griffin

[Lois_Griffin]

But Lois, she got a lie too. And she gets her lumps in the end too. So even if the mow still believes that I have my wh under lock and key, kept against his will in a bad marriage from which she could free him, she lost her job at 50, after 18 yrs in the same place, what was left of her reputation, her colleagues, and her family got to find out what she was actually doing at work. If she's still believing the lie (and I doubt mow is) she's still hanging on to a lie, which is a sad life. I know that because I believed my wh was faithful, which was a lie, and my life was pathetic, even while I believed in him.

Oh, she absolutely got a lie.

 

Both women did and I expound greatly on that in my longer post above this one.

[stillafool]

Because we really can't understand how you can cheat on someone you say you love. If you loved your spouse and were happy you wouldn't cheat.

So if you stay not for love, it's for duty or reputation etc.

Therefore that makes you a coward. Not to really "follow your heart and the one you love"

 

 

I think the MM does follow his heart and chooses the one he loves which more times ending up being his wife. That's why he doesn't leave. I guess to OW that makes him a coward because he has more than likely lied to her and said he loved her.

[elaine567]

...she thought he was the be all and end all in men. She thought he was amazing and would do anything for him.

 

She didn't get that impression of him, by him showing her his disgust for her, and a few drunken sex sessions did she?

[/url]Of course he told her he loved her and future faked the hell out of her, that is why she is so mad at him and is now calling him a coward for staying in his "dreadful" marriage.

Do you really think she would have been so mad if he did treat her like dirt FOR YEARS remember, like he said he did?

 

Don't be so naive.

Listen carefully to Lois. #79

[notmyselfnow]

I'm curious as to why you think he had NO problem lying about you to this disgusting extent, but that he wasn't able to claim he loved her? I'd be willing to bet good money he DID tell her that - many times. He probably future-faked the HELL out of her, too. Look, in order to keep the adulation coming for YEARS, he had to give her something. You don't maintain an ongoing thing with someone for years and act as though you can barely stand them. So you can bet he was future faking her and probably telling her he loved her.

 

But he's not going to admit that to you.

 

He's still lying to you and I'd also be willing to bet good money he got her to lie to you too about them never proclaiming their love for each other.

 

The first thing a cheater usually does after lying their face off on D-Day is to run to their affair partner and tell them what they admitted to and what they DIDN'T admit to. Often, they'll ask their affair partner to go along with whatever story they told their BS should the BS come looking for information. No doubt, your husband contacted her after D-Day and told her what he'd admitted to and asked to stick to the same story.

 

Just because they both denied that they ever said "I love you" doesn't make it true. She's likely lying for him. Pitifully enough, while she's angry as hell that he's hiding behind your skirt now that there's been a D-Day, she's STILL hoping for a future with him so she's not going to rat him out all the way. That's what prevents her from really throwing him under the bus and telling you everything - hope that he'll one day come back to her.

 

Your husband's story is a bunch of hogwash, designed to make himself look as innocent as possible. Amazingly, all his physical liaisons with her were when he was 'drunk' - would he have you believe that all the talking and texting they did for YEARS in between those romps were also only when he was 'drunk' as well?

 

She's calling him a coward because he future faked her and probably told her if there was ever a D-Day, he'd come clean with you, leave you because you're such a 'horrible' person, and come galloping to her on his white steed so they could have their happily ever after. But that didn't happen when he got caught. Instead, he threw HER under the bus, claiming he's repulsed by her and she's disgusting and pitiful and he couldn't stand her but he got sex from her so that's why he bothered with her and blah blah blah. He did the exact opposite of what he probably told her he'd do if there was ever a D-Day.

 

And THAT'S why she's so mad and can't accept his complete about-face and that's why she's coming at you so fiercely. Because he lied to her and future faked her.

 

I often wonder why a cheater can't be bothered to do jack SH*T to work on their marriages until they're caught cheating - then suddenly, they become super spouse and have all this 'remorse' and all this love for their BS. Seriously - think about it. Just the day before their D-Day, these cheaters were cruising along living a double life and lying to their spouses in order to KEEP that double life going, then the next day D-Day hits and they're suddenly all 'remorseful' and want to be the best spouse they can possibly be and want to put all this effort into their marriage when only DAYS before they were barely doing the absolute minimum.

 

It just rings so damned hollow.

 

I'm not a BS or an OW. I've just read this same story over and over and over and over and they're all basically the same.

 

Are you sure you're not an OW? You seem really angry at me.

 

I don't think he future faked. I gathered evidence, and contacted and spoke to the OW before WH knew anything about it. He had no time to sync stories. Moreover, she offered to - after I found out - change the story to "help him out" and expressed surprise he hadn't contacted her before I did. He showed me those texts as soon as she sent them. And yes, I checked phone records and email logs and social media accounts. As soon as I told him I knew I made that a condition of even attempting reconciliation, got the passwords immediately, and checked everything at that moment.

 

I don't think they got together more than a handful of times because it would have been physically impossible - we live on different coasts so it had to be limited to the times he was there. And, all it took to keep her there available and pining after him was texting her. And, yes, he was probably drunk then too. Among the other things WH has done in his attempt to reconcile is quit drinking because that is clearly something that leads him into crossing boundaries. Since I found out, he has not had a drop to drink.

 

And yeah, I've thought a lot about why he didn't put forth the effort before betraying me, believe me. All this pain was avoidable, but he chose to be selfish and hurt me instead. Believe me, I have indeed considered that at great length.

[wmacbride]

Are you sure you're not an OW? You seem really angry at me.

 

I don't think he future faked. I gathered evidence, and contacted and spoke to the OW before WH knew anything about it. He had no time to sync stories. Moreover, she offered to - after I found out - change the story to "help him out" and expressed surprise he hadn't contacted her before I did. He showed me those texts as soon as she sent them. And yes, I checked phone records and email logs and social media accounts. As soon as I told him I knew I made that a condition of even attempting reconciliation, got the passwords immediately, and checked everything at that moment.

 

I don't think they got together more than a handful of times because it would have been physically impossible - we live on different coasts so it had to be limited to the times he was there. And, all it took to keep her there available and pining after him was texting her. And, yes, he was probably drunk then too. Among the other things WH has done in his attempt to reconcile is quit drinking because that is clearly something that leads him into crossing boundaries. Since I found out, he has not had a drop to drink.

 

And yeah, I've thought a lot about why he didn't put forth the effort before betraying me, believe me. All this pain was avoidable, but he chose to be selfish and hurt me instead. Believe me, I have indeed considered that at great length.

 

While some ws do lie to the ow/om, some don't. There are some ow/om out there who are serial ow/om, who for whatever reason, prefer A's to a "regular" relationship. I don't know why.

 

There is a stereotype that ow and om ar always lied to, that they are victims of dishonesty, etc. Some are, while others are not.

 

To them, no lies need to be told, in fact, they prefer the truth, but not for the reasoners one might think. As twisted as it might sound, they get off on thinking that they have been able to encourage a man or woman to cheat. It's an ego feed for them.

 

The ow in my situation was like that. I read emails between them before he even knew I knew about the A ( he didn't realize I was as good of a hack as I am, and he also accidentally left his accounts open one day when the phone rang and I sat down to use the computer). Not one "I love you" to her, not one" I'm going to leave my wife" or anything fo the sort. Rather, that was coming from her.

 

Mind you, during that time, he was acting atrocious to me and I didn't know why. Turns out, his mind was a huge tangle between PTSD, guilt over the A and more.

 

After the A ended and he was home again, he took responsibility for what he had done in a lot of ways that were far more difficult than just admitting it to me. His ex-ow never did, and continued to blame me for it not working out. It's been more than 9 years now, and she's still a thorn in my side.

 

(btw, the whole A, from start to finfish, was just a few weeks long, so the idea of "future faking and the other buzzwords so often applied to excuse poor behavior in both the ws and ow/om didn't apply)

[Whoknew30]

I think the MM does follow his heart and chooses the one he loves which more times ending up being his wife. That's why he doesn't leave. I guess to OW that makes him a coward because he has more than likely lied to her and said he loved her.

 

A MM chooses where he is going to be most comfortable. See this is the pitting of a spouse to AP...it's not how it goes. There are a million reasons to go either way & at the point of being caught & making a decision...love is not one of them.

 

My H & I both cheated & when deciding to reconcile on both points, it wasn't "love" we were thinking about. It was time, obligation, finances, kids, facing both our family's & finale decision, we owed it to our marriage to see if we can work it out bc we both knew if we ended up with anyone else, the same issues we were facing could pop up in different relationships. I never stopped loving my H nor did he stop loving me but we did also care for our AP...being both adult we knew "love doesn't conquer all". On top of growing up & seeing the men in my family get caught left & right...they all stayed not bc of love bc they didn't want to change their lives...they all "love" their wives to their best of their ability to love....(all cake eaters) they knew the wives would forgive them & they'd stay in their comfortable lives. Though that BS played a part in that bc instead of the focus being on why their husbands were actually cheating, they focused on the OW, "he wouldn't have cheated if it wasn't for her" & "if she wasn't easy" & yada yada yada but all that waisted energy takes away from the WS. That's why when I was reconciling, our AP weren't really brought up, the cheating itself yes but not the actual people bc it would have taken the focus on the actual problem within our marriage, which was us (same if one spouse cheated, their the BS "real" problem). Yes a AP is wrong for cheating a married person but that's "their problem"...the BS only real problem is their spouse...any person in the world can try & sleep with your spouse but your spouse should be the one to stop it.

 

This is why I say, it's not the person (AP could be anyone) it's the actions of the WS is what should be the focus & how they can be "fixed" if they can be fixed. Once you decide on reconciliation doesn't mean that reconciliation is really going to happen & or it's in concrete...its an attempt.

[purplesorrow]

A MM chooses where he is going to be most comfortable. See this is the pitting of a spouse to AP...it's not how it goes. There are a million reasons to go either way & at the point of being caught & making a decision...love is not one of them.

 

My H & I both cheated & when deciding to reconcile on both points, it wasn't "love" we were thinking about. It was time, obligation, finances, kids, facing both our family's & finale decision, we owed it to our marriage to see if we can work it out bc we both knew if we ended up with anyone else, the same issues we were facing could pop up in different relationships. I never stopped loving my H nor did he stop loving me but we did also care for our AP...being both adult we knew "love doesn't conquer all". On top of growing up & seeing the men in my family get caught left & right...they all stayed not bc of love bc they didn't want to change their lives...they all "love" their wives to their best of their ability to love....(all cake eaters) they knew the wives would forgive them & they'd stay in their comfortable lives. Though that BS played a part in that bc instead of the focus being on why their husbands were actually cheating, they focused on the OW, "he wouldn't have cheated if it wasn't for her" & "if she wasn't easy" & yada yada yada but all that waisted energy takes away from the WS. That's why when I was reconciling, our AP weren't really brought up, the cheating itself yes but not the actual people bc it would have taken the focus on the actual problem within our marriage, which was us (same if one spouse cheated, their the BS "real" problem). Yes a AP is wrong for cheating a married person but that's "their problem"...the BS only real problem is their spouse...any person in the world can try & sleep with your spouse but your spouse should be the one to stop it.

 

This is why I say, it's not the person (AP could be anyone) it's the actions of the WS is what should be the focus & how they can be "fixed" if they can be fixed. Once you decide on reconciliation doesn't mean that reconciliation is really going to happen & or it's in concrete...its an attempt.

 

How do you know love isn't a factor for others?

[Chica80]

I'm curious as to why you think he had NO problem lying about you to this disgusting extent, but that he wasn't able to claim he loved her? I'd be willing to bet good money he DID tell her that - many times. He probably future-faked the HELL out of her, too. Look, in order to keep the adulation coming for YEARS, he had to give her something. You don't maintain an ongoing thing with someone for years and act as though you can barely stand them. So you can bet he was future faking her and probably telling her he loved her.

 

But he's not going to admit that to you.

 

He's still lying to you and I'd also be willing to bet good money he got her to lie to you too about them never proclaiming their love for each other.

 

The first thing a cheater usually does after lying their face off on D-Day is to run to their affair partner and tell them what they admitted to and what they DIDN'T admit to. Often, they'll ask their affair partner to go along with whatever story they told their BS should the BS come looking for information. No doubt, your husband contacted her after D-Day and told her what he'd admitted to and asked to stick to the same story.

 

Just because they both denied that they ever said "I love you" doesn't make it true. She's likely lying for him. Pitifully enough, while she's angry as hell that he's hiding behind your skirt now that there's been a D-Day, she's STILL hoping for a future with him so she's not going to rat him out all the way. That's what prevents her from really throwing him under the bus and telling you everything - hope that he'll one day come back to her.

 

Your husband's story is a bunch of hogwash, designed to make himself look as innocent as possible. Amazingly, all his physical liaisons with her were when he was 'drunk' - would he have you believe that all the talking and texting they did for YEARS in between those romps were also only when he was 'drunk' as well?

 

She's calling him a coward because he future faked her and probably told her if there was ever a D-Day, he'd come clean with you, leave you because you're such a 'horrible' person, and come galloping to her on his white steed so they could have their happily ever after. But that didn't happen when he got caught. Instead, he threw HER under the bus, claiming he's repulsed by her and she's disgusting and pitiful and he couldn't stand her but he got sex from her so that's why he bothered with her and blah blah blah. He did the exact opposite of what he probably told her he'd do if there was ever a D-Day.

 

And THAT'S why she's so mad and can't accept his complete about-face and that's why she's coming at you so fiercely. Because he lied to her and future faked her.

 

I often wonder why a cheater can't be bothered to do jack SH*T to work on their marriages until they're caught cheating - then suddenly, they become super spouse and have all this 'remorse' and all this love for their BS. Seriously - think about it. Just the day before their D-Day, these cheaters were cruising along living a double life and lying to their spouses in order to KEEP that double life going, then the next day D-Day hits and they're suddenly all 'remorseful' and want to be the best spouse they can possibly be and want to put all this effort into their marriage when only DAYS before they were barely doing the absolute minimum.

 

It just rings so damned hollow.

 

I'm not a BS or an OW. I've just read this same story over and over and over and over and they're all basically the same.

 

 

One of the best post I've seen in a while!!!!

[Noirek]

My xMM's wife accused me of taking advantage of him while he was drunk. Despite his less than stellar repuation with the ladies as I had learned she always managed to blame the OW in some way more than her husband, including me. That is her choice and her life. It was her husband that broke NC with me and yet when she discovered it she went to my husband, accusing me of chasing her husband again. The last time she contacted me (her husband and I were not in contact) I told her she needed to stop worrying about me. That I was not a threat to her marriage, her husband was. I wasn't a special snowflake. He had women before me and more than likely some else at the moment. I had accepted that. I haven't heard from her since.

 

I know you are not her and your situation is not mine. You are not harassing the OW, she is harassing you. But, don't make her to be the villain, even subconsciously, in order to live with the true villain to your marriage. She was merely the tool. And while I too was drunk everytime I had sex with xMM it isn'5 relevant to my cheating because I am not an idiot. I was sober going in and talking. I was sober setting it up with him.

 

Coward gets thrown around a lot and misused. But when a WS stays with their BS and manipulates them, gaslights, downplays their actions, lays blame at their ows feet or in any ways takes the focus of who really is to blame... then yes, they are being cowardly. Staying, being open and honest, owning up to everything, not blaming smack talking the OW because that is what th BS wants to hear, throwing themselves under the bus. Not blaming alchohal, not blaming the BS. That is not cowardly.

[wmacbride]

My xMM's wife accused me of taking advantage of him while he was drunk. Despite his less than stellar repuation with the ladies as I had learned she always managed to blame the OW in some way more than her husband, including me. That is her choice and her life. It was her husband that broke NC with me and yet when she discovered it she went to my husband, accusing me of chasing her husband again. The last time she contacted me (her husband and I were not in contact) I told her she needed to stop worrying about me. That I was not a threat to her marriage, her husband was. I wasn't a special snowflake. He had women before me and more than likely some else at the moment. I had accepted that. I haven't heard from her since.

 

I know you are not her and your situation is not mine. You are not harassing the OW, she is harassing you. But, don't make her to be the villain, even subconsciously, in order to live with the true villain to your marriage. She was merely the tool. And while I too was drunk everytime I had sex with xMM it isn'5 relevant to my cheating because I am not an idiot. I was sober going in and talking. I was sober setting it up with him.

 

Coward gets thrown around a lot and misused. But when a WS stays with their BS and manipulates them, gaslights, downplays their actions, lays blame at their ows feet or in any ways takes the focus of who really is to blame... then yes, they are being cowardly. Staying, being open and honest, owning up to everything, not blaming smack talking the OW because that is what th BS wants to hear, throwing themselves under the bus. Not blaming alchohal, not blaming the BS. That is not cowardly.

 

What you say, in some cases, makes sense.

in others, not so much. Some ow and om are not content to just walk away. Some, like the one in mine, are absolutely nasty. Who should that behavior be blamed on?

My view, their behavior should be placed squarely on their own shoulders. They are big birls/boys, and if they can't act in a civilized fashion,t hen they need to get some help.

I'm not talking about a drunk text or phone call, I'm talking about things like

 

- sending "anonymous" messages to a soldier who's deployed telling him that his wife s cheating on him when she's not ( happened in my situation)

 

- sitting outside her former mm's house while he is away, watching his wife and kids ( again, happened to me)

 

- sending his wife dozens and dozens of messages about how she's in so much pain, it's all her fault and she's going to hurt herself. Ex-mm wife should feel guilty because

it's going to be her fault. ( yet again, happened to me)

 

- the ex-ow harasses the wife and kids when they are out in public ( yet again, guess who did that?)

 

- this continues on for years and reaches a pint where you have to call the police and they threaten legal action against her if she doesn't stop, and she loses her job

 

Those all happened to me, and I have heard of worse, ranging from stalking the bs to calling to tell them that their deployed spouse has been killed in combat?

 

All of the actions an ow/om takes after the A ends is on them. They are adults, and just as the ws is responsible for their own actions, so is the ow/om.

[Chica80]

I think the MM does follow his heart and chooses the one he loves which more times ending up being his wife. That's why he doesn't leave. I guess to OW that makes him a coward because he has more than likely lied to her and said he loved her.

 

I didn't say I agreed with this statement.

She asked why do OW call WS a coward. This is why.

 

In the A you only have the MM version. Right you get one side of the story.

If MM says to OW

*my wife never has sex with me

*she's frigid

*she doesn't take care about me

*she will take my kids

 

Whatever other lie he wants to say. He loves OW she is the love of his life. But he has to stay for responsibility kids family.....whatever the reason.

 

Then yes it all appears a lie and cowardly.

 

Like all A this is a generalization. Are there crazy OW out there. Yes. But that's is not the majority. So when dday comes they are shocked they are suddenly on live w wife again. When this may have always been the case.

 

On another note, how can you say that is love when you betray the person. You say you love. Lies gaslighting disrespect? IMO

[ShatteredLady]

My H's OW doesn't have any lasting relationships in her life. She doesn't have anything to do with any members of her family. Hasn't spoken to her mother for decades following a fight. She doesn't even know where she lives anymore.

 

She doesn't have any real friends. She's never been married, she was artificially inseminated with her children. She doesn't 'believe' in the longevity of any relationships....you keep people in your life while they are giving you things you want & amusing you.

 

So, she's very different from me in that way. I have a close family, childhood friends etc.

people say that we look alike & are very similar in other ways. I knew her about 12 years ago & quite liked her. She didn't need to 'make friends' with me AND I would never of allowed my affair partners wife throw a birthday party for me!!

 

What do I have to hate her for?? She's kind of stayed true to HER principles. She got lots of gifts & flattery this time. Their first affair he paid for her restaurant lunches most days of the week. She never had to give much to get all she wanted.

 

Why would I blame her? She continued to reach-out to my H for 12 years. She knew we had children. HE didn't need to reply!! He spent his entire adult life telling me that he loved & cherished me. He made promises. He made vows. HE is my husband.

 

He was a conflict avoidant coward who couldn't deal with the stress in his life of loosing his job & having a very sick wife. He CHOSE to reply to her & get his ego stroked. He said & did awful things kicking me into the gutter to justify his behavior. He broke his promises to me.

 

She never promised me anything.

 

I understand why a BS would resent, even hate the OW but our situation isn't like that. As soon as HE told her it was over she stopped.

Edited October 5, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[wmacbride]

I didn't say I agreed with this statement.

She asked why do OW call WS a coward. This is why.

 

In the A you only have the MM version. Right you get one side of the story.

If MM says to OW

*my wife never has sex with me

*she's frigid

*she doesn't take care about me

*she will take my kids

 

Whatever other lie he wants to say. He loves OW she is the love of his life. But he has to stay for responsibility kids family.....whatever the reason.

 

Then yes it all appears a lie and cowardly.

 

Like all A this is a generalization. Are there crazy OW out there. Yes. But that's is not the majority. So when dday comes they are shocked they are suddenly on live w wife again. When this may have always been the case.

 

On another note, how can you say that is love when you betray the person. You say you love. Lies gaslighting disrespect? IMO

 

true enough, but he ( or she) is also lying to the ow or om. That's not loving either.

it's such a warped situation.

[Noirek]

What you say, in some cases, makes sense.

in others, not so much. Some ow and om are not content to just walk away. Some, like the one in mine, are absolutely nasty. Who should that behavior be blamed on?

My view, their behavior should be placed squarely on their own shoulders. They are big birls/boys, and if they can't act in a civilized fashion,t hen they need to get some help.

I'm not talking about a drunk text or phone call, I'm talking about things like

 

- sending "anonymous" messages to a soldier who's deployed telling him that his wife s cheating on him when she's not ( happened in my situation)

 

- sitting outside her former mm's house while he is away, watching his wife and kids ( again, happened to me)

 

- sending his wife dozens and dozens of messages about how she's in so much pain, it's all her fault and she's going to hurt herself. Ex-mm wife should feel guilty because

it's going to be her fault. ( yet again, happened to me)

 

- the ex-ow harasses the wife and kids when they are out in public ( yet again, guess who did that?)

 

- this continues on for years and reaches a pint where you have to call the police and they threaten legal action against her if she doesn't stop, and she loses her job

 

Those all happened to me, and I have heard of worse, ranging from stalking the bs to calling to tell them that their deployed spouse has been killed in combat?

 

All of the actions an ow/om takes after the A ends is on them. They are adults, and just as the ws is responsible for their own actions, so is the ow/om.

 

My response was directed to the OP. It had nothing to do with anything you posted or your story. In her case probably without realizing it she downplayed her husbands actions by saying he only hooked up with the OW a few times whilst drunk. That is why I mentioned the alchohal part. I actually am not even sure where your rant post directed at me came from in the context of the OP asking OW why call the OM a coward but perhaps I missed that. As I said, mine most certainly had nothing to do with anything you shared.

 

Are OW responsible for their own behaviour? Of course.

 

But, and yes, there is a but, in the end the Husbands or wives who chose to break their marriage vows and expose crazy to family are ultimately responsible. Some people are driven mad by the lies and manipulation. They don't even recognize themselves. Some want revenge and the ws to feel the same pain they feel. Some were crazy to begin with. But they ultimately still are just noise. Maybe a really annoying noise. One legal action needs to be taken against. But still not the real villain.

[wmacbride]

My response was directed to the OP. It had nothing to do with anything you posted or your story. In her case probably without realizing it she downplayed her husbands actions by saying he only hooked up with the OW a few times whilst drunk. That is why I mentioned the alchohal part. I actually am not even sure where your rant post directed at me came from in the context of the OP asking OW why call the OM a coward but perhaps I missed that. As I said, mine most certainly had nothing to do with anything you shared.

 

Are OW responsible for their own behaviour? Of course.

 

But, and yes, there is a but, in the end the Husbands or wives who chose to break their marriage vows and expose crazy to family are ultimately responsible. Some people are driven mad by the lies and manipulation. They don't even recognize themselves. Some want revenge and the ws to feel the same pain they feel. Some were crazy to begin with. But they ultimately still are just noise. Maybe a really annoying noise. One legal action needs to be taken against. But still not the real villain.

 

Villain? Who would the villain be?

 

In most cases, there is no "villian" at all. just two people who should have known better and now that the A blew up in their faces, they want to blame each other for how they acted. Neither the ow nor the mm drag their AP off kicking and screaming. If a mm/mw goes into it eyes wide open, then so does the ow/om. They both messed up.

 

As for the alcohol with the op's husband? Does that excuse his behvaior? Of course not, but if it contributed to it, then that is an issue that they need to address.

 

btw, someone who disagrees with you does not a rant make. I'm simply pointing out that the stereotype of the innocent little ow who got led down the garden path is just that, a stereotype. Sure it does happen, but it's not the norm.

[Noirek]

Villain? Who would the villain be?

 

In most cases, there is no "villian" at all. just two people who should have known better and now that the A blew up in their faces, they want to blame each other for how they acted. Neither the ow nor the mm drag their AP off kicking and screaming. If a mm/mw goes into it eyes wide open, then so does the ow/om. They both messed up.

 

As for the alcohol with the op's husband? Does that excuse his behvaior? Of course not, but if it contributed to it, then that is an issue that they need to address.

 

btw, someone who disagrees with you does not a rant make. I'm simply pointing out that the stereotype of the innocent little ow who got led down the garden path is just that, a stereotype. Sure it does happen, but it's not the norm.

 

Honestly, i don't understand once again where you are going. Where did I say an OW was innocent? I'm still confused by your need to quote and "disagree" with me by telling your own tale. Sharing your own experience is one thing but you seemed to think my story was shared to contradict yours and it was not. It isn't related because as far as I know her OW hasn't been around for years and years. And I am deeply sorry you had to put up with someone like that. And no, alcohol did not contribute to OP's WS' behaviour if this happened multiple times with communication of anytype between. And I hope the OP sees that. I hope the OP sees that has a really lame excuse. My use of the wors villain is chosen when the AP is vilified by either the WS or the BS in order to smooth the road to reconciliation. It is often done with excuses and very sound stories to back the need to do so. But, except for in the cases such as yours and a few others where the AP will not stop even years later reinserting themselves into the families life, large amounts of anger directed at the AP is a waste of time and a misdirection. Very rarely is it truly the case of "I have enough anger for both" and you can often see in the words and writing the defense of the WS and the disgust of the AP as in this case.

 

there are res flags in the OPs story. The minimizing of her H's actions by mentioning alchohal and also the fact he says he didn't even lime his AP and yet this wasn't a one time thing are two major ones.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Noirek

[Chica80]

true enough, but he ( or she) is also lying to the ow or om. That's not loving either.

it's such a warped situation.

 

Yes. Maybe.

 

If you were to ask me in my own personal opinion. Do I think my MM lies to me no. He def lies to his wife though. The one he pledged and made a comitment to.

 

Do I think he loves me yes.

Do I think he loves his wife yes.

For different reasons. I think he gets different things from each of us.

 

Do I think that any of this is ok and justifiable NO. It's all wrong all selfish.

 

Do I expect if there was a dday he would lie and say I didn't mean anything and try to save his marriage. Of course!!! Because I know him. I know love is not his end or ultimate goal. It's not what he makes his choices his decisions on. But that's my experience. Others are different.

[cocorico]

If my H had chosen to stay with the XBW then yes, I would have considered him a coward. I would have understood why, and been sad that despite IC and support he was not able to pull it off - but ultimately it would have shown me that there was deep-seated damage and that if I continued in the R I'd be positioned in a role I didn't want. I wanted a partner, not a project.