Question for OM/OW - why a coward?

[gettingstronger]

BS here with a similar scenario- OW went nutty on us-it was a difficult time- she needs to own her behaviors however, yes-my husband is a coward-she knew it and got involved anyway doesn't mean its not true-

[imperfectangel]

An affair is like a skiing game on the Xbox. All pretend with none of the beauty. And anyone with 2 thumbs and a tv can do it.

 

Or saying you can skip Europe because you walked through Epcot. Not the same experiences at all.

 

Not the same experience no, but I can assure you not all affairs are fake B.S.

[Midwestmissy]

Imperfect - maybe the regretted ones are, but not all, I guess. I do know that while wh cheated and lived in xbox-land (and it was only 6 months or so, no love affair, just transactions on both sides) I got to live and breathe what he seemed willing to give up - time with the kids, the laughs at the dinner table, snuggling - those are irreplaceable. I was without question fully present in the life minutiae that matters most. The hiding of the lies was top of mind for him, and he missed a lot, and has lost a lot. And he was cranky as hell the whole time. For someone he didn't love or respect. (He wasn't the better person in the scenario, I just don't know if she loved or respected him, just wanted him) That's pretty sad.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnight blue - you say there are lines that shouldn't be crossed - why is sleeping with someone's spouse not such a line?

 

If an ow/Om continuously tells the other ow/Om that he/she will not leave the spouse, why is the person so shocked when he runs back home? In my case, the affair was ended and wh confessed to me 6 months later, because once it ended, he always left his phone out. And she got drunk and texted him to proposition several times. While she was at home in bed with her husband and 4 kids.

 

In the situation I experienced, no one involved was interested in excellence or raising the bar. My wh had issues he refused to face, and the water found its level. He debased himself with his behavior and finding someone equally lacking self respect was super easy. I guess I'm curious when the lines to cross become clear after cheaters have plowed through all the others.

 

My wh told me her family never crossed his mind other than his thinking that if they split up he was in trouble because she wanted a life with wh. So he'd book them hotels etc while still sleeping with her. Also, she didn't blow up our marriage, he did with the low standards and dumb decisions he made without my knowledge. I don't put the blame on her. But it's humiliating to find out wh is stepping out with trash. Because you realize you are married to trash.

 

He's been in amazing therapy for a while now and we discuss all this regularly. The ow could have been anyone available. He was not curating the selection lol.

 

I saw an analogy that compares marriage and affairs. Marriage and true intimacy is like skiing in the alps, feeling the sun and cold, the cold beer afterwards, the smell of the fire in the lodge. It's all the senses and it takes work and time to both have the ability to tackle those mountains and be able to afford the proper trip.

 

An affair is like a skiing game on the Xbox. All pretend with none of the beauty. And anyone with 2 thumbs and a tv can do it.

 

Or saying you can skip Europe because you walked through Epcot. Not the same experiences at all.

 

When saying lines that shouldn't be crossed, I was referring to the question by the OP and her telling me how the OW was directly contacting her and doing crazy stuff after the A was over. I feel unless there is a legitimate reason, like a child or some huge reason, the OW (or OM) just should never be bothering the BS and certainly not putting crap on FB or Fatal Attraction stuff. I was not commenting on whether it is right or wrong to sleep with someone else's spouse. Of course it is wrong.

 

So are a lot of things though and people do them anyway because at that moment, the ends justify the means. In my case, they were roommates for years (and yes, confirmed to my husband by the BS). I'm the one who was an idiot and let myself get sucked into their marital drama but if you are not sleeping with your husband for years, well, you bear a responsibility just as much as he does. And I know this because I bear a responsibility for my own H's affair. These things rarely happen in a vacuum. Trust me, I will never be so gullible and stupid again to fall for some mm's words of love and I will also keep my own husband's need in clear sight as well.

 

Yes, you are right. I could have been anyone, mm was actually going all over the place trying to get someone, I was just in the perfect bad state of mind so I took the bait. He could have been anyone as well. I know lots of men, he was the only one to say he had been in love with me for years. Of course he was telling lots of women that, but I'd been married a long time and you just forget how men can be. Someone you know for years tells you something like that, you believe it. I would never again though.

 

It is interesting though. I am responsible for mm's affair (he painted me as the pursuer, just as you paint your H's ow) and also my own husbands (since I neglected him and was too busy with the two jobs I was working so he could stay at home on his own dream). I guess men are never accountable for their actions. There is always someone to blame.

[heartwhole]

Every situation is different, of course. But it does seem to be a common thread for the OW to believe that the MM loves her and would be happiest with her, yet stays due to obligation or reputation or whatnot. And so he is a "coward" for not choosing his happiness over a life shackled to the "cold" and "controlling" BW.

 

Of course it's irksome to not only be cheated on, but to have the OW off-stage shouting that he really, truly loves her best and that you're just some controlling freak of a woman. Because of the contrived natures of affairs, they often end abruptly with a DD and a choice. I know in my husband's case, on DD he was in the much-touted "fog" and was moping around about his lost love. She surely got that much from social media.

 

But then he snapped out of it, blocked her fully, and by week 3 was exclaiming chirpily, "I thought I would miss her more!" and "It's like we're on our second honeymoon!" (hello need to develop some perspective and empathy). But would she know this? No. There was no way for her to. It would be much more normal still to be mourning a passionate relationship that ended abruptly than to be patting oneself on the back for getting over it so quickly.

 

So I understand why my husband's OW would cling to the idea that they were star-crossed lovers kept apart by bad timing or something, rather than the idea that their relationship was built on fantasy and rooted in fiction (she spent months Tweeting things like, "God's timing is perfect. He will work us out."). On DD when he decided to come clean, WH said, "This is crazy. I don't even know her that well." But she probably didn't have that perspective since she told WH he was her last chance to have her own family and since she hated her job and would have loved to move internationally. Her great love affair was also tied into how she wanted her life to turn out. When it ended, she didn't have a real life to wake up to like he did.

 

I get you, it's not cool for some woman to try to break up your marriage, sleep with your husband, then taunt you with insults about how he's only with you because he's a coward. Step off, girl. If you need to journal or write it out here, that's totally normal. I have lots of rambling Word Documents to that effect. But ultimately, yes, you're only in this position because your husband opened that door wide and invited her in. If you're going to reconcile, then he needs to work on his character and coping skills, and you need to forgive that affront to your pride. Of course, neither of those happens in an instant but rather will require a lot of work and time.

 

I've never confronted my husband's OW or addressed her Tweet-fest of unrequited longing. Because while it's outrageous and angering, it's also deeply sad. I know the term "pathetic" is usually taken as an insult, but I mean it literally, in the sense that she arouses pity. She knew my husband less than six months start to finish and met up with him only once, yet he was the great love of her life? It's been 3 times that long since DD, and she's still single and stuck exactly where she was two years ago? So if she wants to hang onto the memory of the affair as the best she ever had, then why yes, that is deeply sad.

[Midwestmissy]

thats harsh for sure. If I had the super powers to cause affairs, I'd have used them to benefit ME for petes sake.

 

My wh blamed me for everything during the affair. Being cagey, disrespecting his family, not having friends or trying, using someone else (him) to bring me happiness. I scrambled to fix those things, but they weren't on me.

 

He hid his phone, lied to us and put the family business at risk for a lawsuit, alienated any old friend who told him to get his head out of his rear, and sought happiness in a well-worn hole belonging to another woman. So yeah.

 

Owning what he did and going back through it all has been a huge change. He's more like the man I fell in love with 30 years ago. His biggest takeaway? When you have fears and insecurities, speak to the people who love you. Risking that potential and unlikely ridicule is a lot easier than what he's dealing with now. Don't find yes men and yes women who praise you when you know dam well your behaviour is hurtful. All those people who told him he was awesome for 2 years and that he can do no wrong? Gone. Theyve moved on to the next marks. Those of us who loved him unconditionally and for a long time are willing to give him another chance and hold him accountable, and raise the bar because we know he's essentially a good person. He had made excellence in family and business a priority, and then he decided the sewer rats knew him better and didn't judge. Specifically borderline white collar criminals who blew sunshine up him backside as well as the 50 yr old m/cow who thought her ability to suck a golf ball through a garden hose made her executive material, lol.

 

I'm sorry you're being blamed by your h. And you clearly own your mistakes. It's not a linear journey, it's quite dynamic.

[notmyselfnow]

Every situation is different, of course. But it does seem to be a common thread for the OW to believe that the MM loves her and would be happiest with her, yet stays due to obligation or reputation or whatnot. And so he is a "coward" for not choosing his happiness over a life shackled to the "cold" and "controlling" BW.

 

Of course it's irksome to not only be cheated on, but to have the OW off-stage shouting that he really, truly loves her best and that you're just some controlling freak of a woman.

 

I get you, it's not cool for some woman to try to break up your marriage, sleep with your husband, then taunt you with insults about how he's only with you because he's a coward. Step off, girl. If you need to journal or write it out here, that's totally normal. I have lots of rambling Word Documents to that effect. But ultimately, yes, you're only in this position because your husband opened that door wide and invited her in. If you're going to reconcile, then he needs to work on his character and coping skills, and you need to forgive that affront to your pride. Of course, neither of those happens in an instant but rather will require a lot of work and time.

 

I've never confronted my husband's OW or addressed her Tweet-fest of unrequited longing. Because while it's outrageous and angering, it's also deeply sad. I know the term "pathetic" is usually taken as an insult, but I mean it literally, in the sense that she arouses pity. She knew my husband less than six months start to finish and met up with him only once, yet he was the great love of her life? It's been 3 times that long since DD, and she's still single and stuck exactly where she was two years ago? So if she wants to hang onto the memory of the affair as the best she ever had, then why yes, that is deeply sad.

 

Thank you, yes. You just articulated so much of what I'm feeling. It's like I want her to KNOW that he didn't love her or care for her and that the stuff he said about what me was bs; and I'm angry that she is going around telling everyone how our marriage is going to fail because I'm such a terrible person, that he's choosing me out of duty to the children even though he hates me, and that that is what makes him a coward. I realize that it needs to be about me and WH at this point, not her, but it's easier to hate her. I can't just hate WH if I'm going to try to work on the marriage. Moreover, he seems truly remorseful, and the OW is mean and claims she did nothing wrong, and has delighted in rubbing it in my face. So there's that too.

 

I never thought I would be in this position. It's so terrible and so hard to get over. I don't think the whys about it will ever stop.

[grassisorisntgreener]

She called him a coward because that's what he is to her.

 

He probably future faked (whether he admits this to you or not) her and acted like if it weren't for all his responsibilities he would be with her instead.

 

However when D-Day happened he chose to stay with you.

 

She only knows what he has told her during the affair and she really knows nothing else about him. In her eyes he is staying with you because he's too big of a wimp to tell you he doesn't want to be with you. But that's probably not at all how he feels, that's just how SHE THINKS he feels.

 

Cheaters are cowards. I know because I was one.

[Mr. Lucky]

I realize that it needs to be about me and WH at this point, not her, but it's easier to hate her. I can't just hate WH if I'm going to try to work on the marriage.

 

Easier to hate her for her current unhinged conduct or for her role in the A?

 

Don't think you have to hate your WH, you can just despise what he's done. Two different things...

 

Mr. Lucky

[notmyselfnow]

She called him a coward because that's what he is to her.

 

He probably future faked (whether he admits this to you or not) her and acted like if it weren't for all his responsibilities he would be with her instead.

 

However when D-Day happened he chose to stay with you.

 

She only knows what he has told her during the affair and she really knows nothing else about him. In her eyes he is staying with you because he's too big of a wimp to tell you he doesn't want to be with you. But that's probably not at all how he feels, that's just how SHE THINKS he feels.

 

Cheaters are cowards. I know because I was one.

 

He didn't future fake - she actually told me that - god knows why - in her texts. She said that he never promised anything, they never talked about the future, but she knew in her heart that he cared about her and they had an amazing connection and that he would be back for her someday.

 

And, yes, it's cowardly. But the part the OW thinks is cowardly is him not picking her.

[notmyselfnow]

Easier to hate her for her current unhinged conduct or for her role in the A?

 

Don't think you have to hate your WH, you can just despise what he's done. Two different things...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Oh gosh - for both! I hate her for what she participated in, and I hate her for how she's acted since DD.

 

I like the way you put that. I can despise WH's actions, but not hate him. Her....I just hate.

[Midwestmissy]

When I feel the real hatred for her, I feel for her 4 kids. So on my best days, I hope she gets herself together for their sake. I know how my kids suffered and it's unfair, hers are all under 18.

[S2B]

OP sometimes in order to answer your own question it is useful to ask that question in the opposite direction.

 

What was he doing during his affair that wasn't cowardly? Is there anything on the list that shows evidence that he wasn't a coward? Was he being honest with you? With his OW?

 

How would you describe a coward?

[heartwhole]

He didn't future fake - she actually told me that - god knows why - in her texts. She said that he never promised anything, they never talked about the future, but she knew in her heart that he cared about her and they had an amazing connection and that he would be back for her someday.

 

And, yes, it's cowardly. But the part the OW thinks is cowardly is him not picking her.

 

It's really bordering on delusional to insist to a man's wife that even though he never promised her anything or talked about a future, she knew differently in her heart. Um, what?

 

My husband didn't future fake either. He talked "hypothetically" about how nice a future for the two of them would be (for that conflict avoider it meant me deciding to end the marriage without him looking like a bad guy). But he never said "I love you" or made any promises. Of course, I've seen the puppy-dog eyes pictures he sent her. Obviously he made his feelings known without technically saying X, Y, or Z. So I can see it both ways.

 

In any event, remember that your present is reality, not the past, and not some hypothetical future. Take it from me -- the longer you spend ruminating on her, the more you allow the "love triangle" dynamic to perpetuate in your marriage. Only now it's you who are drawing her into your marriage, not him. Yes, her actions are pathetic and delusional. Go out with a girlfriend who knows and bash her over glasses of wine. Write everything you'd love to say but never will in a journal. But don't let her continue being part of your lives.

[OneLov]

I studied human behavior and communications in undergrad. The question regarding how she can possibly believe the future-faking is easy to understand.

 

Subconsciously, we view someone's nonverbal communication as a more reliable indicator of what we perceive as fact as opposed to verbal communication. So if his words said no, but his actions said yes, he is clearly sending mixed signals. So which to people often believe? Whichever ones support the conclusion they have drawn.

 

Her conclusion is it was love. Was it? No. But I would not call her batsh*t crazy just yet. The likely explanation is that your WH's actions communicated a message of hope to her.

 

I am not justifying her behavior or saying she's right. She's been rejected and probably feels like a complete and utter fool. I'm only commenting that the only way one could view any of her behavior perplexing is if you really believe she hypnotized him, and he was emotionally kidnapped.

 

Try this experiment, tell people over-and-over you dislike a certain dish, and after sometime, eat heaping servings of that dish in front on them just once. Ask them afterwards, if in their opinion, they believe you like that dish? You'll be surprised at the average answer.

Edited September 30, 2016 by OneLov

[lemondrop21]

Aside from the first few months, I always thought my xMM was a coward - even during the A. The first few months I gave him a pass in my mind; complicated situation, I thought. But once the reality of the cake-eating set in, I absolutely thought he was cowardly for continuing on in the A instead of doing some tough introspection and making the decision to either leave or stay (faithfully) in the marriage. I was also critical of myself for continuing to go back to the A instead of doing the brave thing and walking away completely.

 

I guess your WH's xOW is more delusional than I was.

[Midwestmissy]

Onelov- you hit it bang on. My wh told me he was faithful, he cared, he was working late. His actions were abusive and told me otherwise. He told mow he was never leaving me, that what they had was a diversion that would be short lived. His actions told her he was willing to risk his marriage to be with her.

 

I believed his words, she believed his actions. To your argument, it also helps to remember how charming manipulators are, in my case, even when he was incredibly cruel to me for the first time in 26 years.

[Whoknew30]

I think it's a little ironic that BS can say their WS was in affair fog but forget so was their AP...when the fog lifts, it lifts for both people.

 

She now sees your H for what he really is...which is a coward & a liar. You have a family with your H, she doesn't. So it isn't particularly that she thinks he's a coward bc he "picked" you...I would assume it's more of the way he handled it. If a man (any person) is telling you his marriage sucks for how long & whatever other lie on Tuesday & then Friday he's saying something different, of course she's going to think that.

 

As both a BS & WS my advice is...don't get caught up in the game if "she's beneath me & this or that" bc it's keeping the competition thing going in your head. That does not improve one's self esteem. No one is better than anyone in life, we just all struggle with different issues. When my H & I went through 2 different ddays within a month from each other, we made a promise to ourselves that we were going forward & not looking back.

 

The reality is your H (any WS at the time of A) is cowardly & handling issues wrong & we did behave cowardly or we would not have had A...good luck

[HeCantBreakMe]

I just wanted to throw in my thoughts on this- there is so much pain that happens because of affairs. Everyone suffers. Yes the OW was wrong- i used to think gross- who the heck would allow a MM to hit on them let alone engage in an affair with one- UBER GROSS and so demeaning. I thought that right up until i became an OW.

 

I own my affair and everything i did wrong. I owned it right up to the time i told my husband. I even owned up to my feelings for my MM who for a year lied to me. He said so many things to me and i wanted to hear them so bad, not because i am pathetic, but because there were things going on in my life that made me want to be loved - and he was ready to feed me that for whatever reason (probably to get me in bed or to feed his own broken loneliness) but the point is he wasn't innocent and neither i am guessing is your husband.

 

I called my xMM a coward - i called myself a coward. EVERY married person who has an affair is a coward because they would rather escape reality than deal with their marriage- and this includes your husband. Regardless of how you feel about the OW (a lot of it is probably true) the truth is your husband needs help and you need to own what he is and see it for the truth before you two can move forward.

 

HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE. DO NOT let him blame the OW because if he cannot own his part in the affair he WILL do it again.

 

I am so sorry for your pain. I truly wish i could tell my xMM's BS how sorry I am for what i did to their family but she doesnt' know the truth and maybe she never will. But for you- i am sorry. OW- most of us aren't monsters. We make bad choices but we do not get away with this unscathed we hurt bad very bad because of those bad choices. your husbands OW will get the karma she deserves- trust me we all do.

[solonely9]

Hi, notmyselfnow. I hope you're doing better.

 

I am an XMOW and I too think of XMM here as a coward, however, not because he chose to stay in his M, but because he never owned what he did. After DD, he conveniently painted me into this horrible person, so he could find reasons to cut me off. Okay, I'm a cheater, but so is he. Nonetheless, after his W found out, he suddenly forgot all his words and actions, became a victim, and I was turned into some kind of monster. By the way, after DD, I have never bothered him or his W. I did break NC on three occasions by texting him, because I was going through a depression and feeling extremely low, but they were all just generic "how are you" messages. I didn't do it to get him back, I didn't even do it for support, as I know that he is in no place to provide it for me, I was just having a bad moment, however, I never expected him to be so mean and hostile. He basically has chosen to hate me right now, because it serves him better, because he can never be wrong, because he is always the victim. That's why, I think he is a coward.

[wmacbride]

I know this isn't going to be popular, but so many times, the ow or om will place all of the blame for them getting involved with a mm/mw on the married person.

 

I get it if the mp lied outright and said they are not married. A man or woman who does that is, to my way of thinking, a despicable person.

 

It's different when the mm or mw says they are married but ( insert excuse for the affair here)

 

A potential ow or om in that situation knows they are married, but still chooses to get involved with them, then when it blows up, they blame the mm/mw for the whole thing by saying "they lied to me", and paint themselves as a victim.

 

If an ow or om can't seduce a person into cheating with them ( which I agree with, people cheat because at that point in time, they want to), then neither can a mm or mw seduce their AP into getting involved with them. The om or ow gets into the affair because, at that point in time, they wanted to.

 

Sure , the mm or mw may spin them a story that justifies the affair ( at least in their mind), but the potential ow/om could have verified that story by checking his or her social media accounts and that of their spouse, etc. They could even send them a message or call them to verify the situation. How many do this and how many don't? If they didn't verify, why not?

 

The A, in and of itself, is the result of the two people in it making the decision to start a relationship. No one can have an A alone, and in my opinion, both are cowards. The mm or mw is a coward because rather than do the hard work of repairing their M or walking away if they are unhappy enough to cheat, they stay. The ow/om is a coward because they could have verified the story they were told, but chose not to.

[Midwestmissy]

Wmacbride, i view my wh as a coward for being too fearful to express himself to me about his concerns before he started the affair. For thinking that an affair was the answer, when about 3000 yrs of human history says otherwise. Had he been man enough up front, we could have tackled his demons together. Instead he found an equally damaged mow to divert himself. I don't view her as a coward so much as a damaged opportunist - she's a serial cheater, not a secret. And he did not share his fears and problems with her either, so those weren't gently handled by this new partner. The issues he gave her were about a big strong powerful successful man who gave and gave and worked and worked and wasn't appreciated. Sniff sniff. She saw dollar signs. Her presence did nothing to help him at all, she was a set of blinders in the form of devoted employee and free sex on speed dial.

 

So when the dust cleared, mr big's original problems weren't gone, they were compounded by the mow, the lies, the affair, the ridicule. Had his ego (and I do think this is a common North American male problem) been in check originally, he could have come to me and he would have had my support - same as always- and we would have tackled his problems - which were not marital, btw- as a team. He just thought going to the little leagues to recruit a pro player was easier. He was the coward, she was just there, with the right amount of loose morals to do the job. His bravado was a huge lie, which she ate up, just like his fidelity was a lie I eagerly believed.

[waterwoman]

The only cowardly thing my H did was to get involved with his OW in the first place. He wasn't happy with things as they were in our marriage. Neither was I but I was actively trying to fix things. He decided it would be easier and much more enjoyable to get too close to someone who didn't require him to actually do anything but still made him feel like some sort of superhero. He was a total f***ing coward and weakling.

 

The ending of the A and the disclosure of it to me was the one thing that wasn't cowardly. He gaslighted me and minimised , in sheer panic, for about 24 hours after I found some texts and confronted him. Then he got his head out of his arse and started talking to me. That was the actions of a brave and honest man who finally realised what he had to do.

[Miss Clavel]

the potential ow/om could have verified that story by checking his or her social media accounts and that of their spouse, etc. They could even send them a message or call them to verify the situation. How many do this and how many don't? If they didn't verify, why not?

.

 

applause.

 

simple, effective, easy.

[Lois_Griffin]

Maybe what bothers me about this question is that WH gets everything, OW gets the fantasy that he really loves her and hates me, and I get betrayal and heartache.

Only if you choose to stay with him.

 

There's no rule that says you HAVE to stay with a cheater.