EA - Finally ready to share my story w/insights from counseling

[HadMeOverABarrel]

It's difficult to really know, what someone else is thinking or know why they do what they do?

 

Is it really that he is so control of his emotions and is so afraid to let you in......or are you projecting your own feelings and what you hope is true. I can't really answer that for you, no one can because no one else is there.

 

Ultimately it doesn't really matter in the sense if it's true or not true. If you really are a love addict or not. I think if you identify with it, if somehow it fits, if it gives you a piece of that missing puzzle if it helps you on a path to healing. And helps you want to change the behaviors and patterns in your life that are harmful then that's the answer. Just my two cents.

 

But yes. For myself I very much identify with the push/pull. In the beginning I didn't realize what it was or why we did that. But as time went on as I tried to learn and read and understand, I learned alot about him and also about myself.

I learned to express things I felt. Sometimes it was obvious and sometimes the answer not so much. Sometimes a feeling would trigger something else, and sometimes the reason was something alot deeper.

 

Now I just ask or talk about it.

"When you do this it makes me feel like that"

"I feel..."

"Was your intention...this?....because that's how I understood it"

 

In one sense there is nothing unique about my dynamic or my A. It can be others story.

 

But in one sense it's different in that we/he have created a safe space to talk. To learn how to communicate. I've learned how to argue or fight in a "healthy" way if that makes sense. I've learned alot about myself and those are things I'll take with me.

 

"Good people" have A, but Healthy people dont.

 

"Sometimes the place you are use to is not the place you belong"

 

Hello. Regarding what someone thinks/does I'm examining it to understand how: 1) I may have misinterpreted (or not) based on projections from my own paradigm and past experiences, and 2) how I related/reacted to his behavior. I will grow from that. For example, I recall in counseling discussing how upset I was about xMM handling my bday. My counselor pointed out it may be related to my dad's handling on my birthdays. Mom did it right, dad was there but didn't make a big deal about it. Anyway, I'm seeking and searching those wounds that I thought were healed a while back but obviously not. I will get them this time! Lol. Seriously I intend to heal all this stuff now because I will live the most extraordinary life possible which means I have to be wholly healed.

 

Mmm your last sentence is what I believe about my xMM...but everyone has to figure out these things for themselves.

[Chica80]

Hello. Regarding what someone thinks/does I'm examining it to understand how: 1) I may have misinterpreted (or not) based on projections from my own paradigm and past experiences, and 2) how I related/reacted to his behavior. I will grow from that. For example, I recall in counseling discussing how upset I was about xMM handling my bday. My counselor pointed out it may be related to my dad's handling on my birthdays. Mom did it right, dad was there but didn't make a big deal about it. Anyway, I'm seeking and searching those wounds that I thought were healed a while back but obviously not. I will get them this time! Lol. Seriously I intend to heal all this stuff now because I will live the most extraordinary life possible which means I have to be wholly healed.

 

Mmm your last sentence is what I believe about my xMM...but everyone has to figure out these things for themselves.

 

The more I learn about people the more I learn no one is truly got it all together.

 

I think the goal would be to understand what your personal struggles are and how to combat those in a healthy way.

I think all your thoughts, therapy and things you are trying to understand about yourself is half the battle as you are on a path to become a better version of who you are. Not a different one.

[spiderowl]

He has his life and family. He just wants to fit you round it whenever he feels like it. You have no power in this. It suits him to have the attention as and when. What do you get? Nothing.

 

You are doing a fantastic job of working yourself out of this toxic situation. Forgive yourself if you lapse every so often. You will get there in the end.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I heard this song for the first time a couple of nights ago and it's perfect for where I'm at now. Blue ain't my color, definitely not. Green is my color--alive, vibrant, happy! I'm almost back to green. Haven't felt myself in almost a year. Hope others will enjoy this music:

 

 

 

Here is where I used to be (I played these so many times while crying):

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0I7P-Y57c

 

 

 

Hope some of these songs will be cathartic to people working their way through the A aftermath.

Edited May 28, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[HereNorThere]

You need better break-up songs!

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

You need better break-up songs!

 

 

LOL! Good one. Here my favorite lyrics from your song:

 

So many tears I cried

But all for nothing I’m afraid to say

 

Yeeeaahhh! Ashes, meet Phoenix. I'm almost totally over it all. Thanks for stopping by.

[Chica80]

I have to say all the introspection and the questions and learning sometimes means nothing.

 

Yesterday I saw a friend who told me she recently broke up w her BF, almost a year. She found out he was cheating on her....

 

It's easy to not think about the other person....different when you see someone you love in pain.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

My thread has become my online scrapbook/journal for this journey. Since it's my own thread though, I'm cool with that.

 

I want to add that after re-reading an email between xMM and myself from a year ago (8 month into A), I realized how I contributed to the dynamic between us. I ceded power to him consciously but I didn't realize how that would impact me and the relationship dynamic down the road. Subconsciously I realized he needed it. I went along with it because somewhere inside me it felt really good to do it. That's because I subconsciously recognized this sort of thing from my earliest relational years. This is also partly what made xMM feel like such a soul connection. I didn't use my voice as I normally would during A because it would rock the boat with xMM. Ironically, I probably took on the role akin to him in his M. With this awareness, forgiveness comes much more easily. With forgiveness, I am at last free. Whew! What a relief. Every time I dig into this this last week, I discover more and literally feel weight lifting off my chest. I become more of my natural self, but wiser. It's just awesome!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I have to say all the introspection and the questions and learning sometimes means nothing.

 

Yesterday I saw a friend who told me she recently broke up w her BF, almost a year. She found out he was cheating on her....

 

It's easy to not think about the other person....different when you see someone you love in pain.

 

Good Evening, Sunshine!

 

I am an avid student in all things so the idea that learning means nothing is **gasp**! My obsessive introspection this past week has brought me an incredible awareness and tools that are going to have significant positive impact on the rest of my life. For example, I've always been attracted to strong men and I loved the way xMM came at me. He was fiercely confident, witty, charming. I found it sexy. Now I know why! I like straightforwardness. I mistook his approach to describe his relationship style though. As I've come to understand, he is the classic conflict avoider, etc. Actually, he is much weaker than he first presented himself to be. I'm not attracted to his weakness--it is a turnoff for me. I do still love many aspects of his personality though. Why is it important to understand this? You can bet that I will be looking beneath the hood of my future dates when it comes to confidence. I now know the difference between a confident game to woo verses a man who is legitimately connected to his true sense of self and his emotions. That latter man is not as likely to be a cheater! Narcissists are not self-aware, not connected to their true sense of self (hence their masks), not connected to their emotions. Now I know what to look for to avoid those people in the future. I also understand how my early emotional "program" attracts people like that. In childhood, when growing up in abusive environments, to survive kids become either hyper vigilant to the household authority (me/co-dependent tendencies) or disconnect from themselves and create a false sense of self (I suspect this for xMM/narcissistic tendencies). Now that I see this, I will avoid falling into this rabbit hole again--A or no A. Why? Introspection, growth, new awareness!

 

xMM turned my world upside down within weeks of coming into it. I was disoriented. My routine changed. Things I did that brought me peace and comfort lost their luster. I even stopped paying as much attention to my dog whom I adore more than anything on the planet! Now I think that is because he awakened something in me that was long buried, and that process of awakening shook my core. Now those things that were suppressed have come to the surface to be dealt with, healed and released. And that's what I've been doing. It feels phenomenal! It is empowering. It makes me so much less susceptible to injury from people because that which was suppressed were subconscious emotional buttons that others could press and trigger to manipulate. Now that I'm healing those, I am less susceptible to manipulation and pain. This is a breakthrough. These are the fruits of doing the work of introspection, etc.

Edited May 29, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[Chica80]

Good Evening, Sunshine!

 

I am an avid student in all things so the idea that learning means nothing is **gasp**! My obsessive introspection this past week has brought me an incredible awareness and tools that are going to have significant positive impact on the rest of my life. For example, I've always been attracted to strong men and I loved the way xMM came at me. He was fiercely confident, witty, charming. I found it sexy. Now I know why! I like straightforwardness. I mistook his approach to describe his relationship style though. As I've come to understand, he is the classic conflict avoider, etc. Why is it important to understand this? You can bet that I will be looking beneath the hood of my future dates when it comes to confidence. I now know the difference between a confident game to woo verses a man who is legitimately connected to his true sense of self and his emotions. That latter man is not as likely to be a cheater! Narcissists are not self-aware, not connected to their true sense of self (hence their masks), not connected to their emotions. Now I know what to look for to avoid those people in the future. I also understand how my early emotional "program" attracts people like that. In childhood, when growing up in abusive environments, to survive kids become either hyper vigilant to the household authority (me/co-dependent tendencies) or disconnect from themselves and create a false sense of self (I suspect this for xMM/narcissistic tendencies). Now that I see this, I will avoid falling into this rabbit hole again--A or no A. Why? Introspection, growth, new awareness!

 

Hi sorry I didn't totally mean no introspection....I have been doing a lot this week myself. And thank you because you have shared a lot with me and have allowed me to write on your thread.

 

It just hit me I guess. Seeing my friend so hurt. She text me today. I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side. That's where I was coming from.

 

My introspection of the last two days if I may.....MM and most men possibly afraid of rejection. He told me stories about college etc and not dating... His wife (my own analysis) Safe bet no rejection there as they were on the "natural projectory" of life.....Me not so safe....

I've noticed this the other day...he made this kind of flirty comment when I didn't respond back.....he was joking, or because he was drinking....

 

So if you are someone who is afraid of rejection, or not use to the attention ya I would imagine its a huge boost to have someone all googly eyed and basically at your beck and call.....(power and control).

 

If we go back to that first article you shared...a lot of the A comes from a place of resentment and anger towards the BS again....rejection or a feeling of rejection....

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Hi sorry I didn't totally mean no introspection....I have been doing a lot this week myself. And thank you because you have shared a lot with me and have allowed me to write on your thread.

 

It just hit me I guess. Seeing my friend so hurt. She text me today. I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side. That's where I was coming from.

 

My introspection of the last two days if I may.....MM and most men possibly afraid of rejection. He told me stories about college etc and not dating... His wife (my own analysis) Safe bet no rejection there as they were on the "natural projectory" of life.....Me not so safe....

I've noticed this the other day...he made this kind of flirty comment when I didn't respond back.....he was joking, or because he was drinking....

 

So if you are someone who is afraid of rejection, or not use to the attention ya I would imagine its a huge boost to have someone all googly eyed and basically at your beck and call.....(power and control).

 

If we go back to that first article you shared...a lot of the A comes from a place of resentment and anger towards the BS again....rejection or a feeling of rejection....

 

Hey it's cool. And I'm so happy to dialogue with you, and others, about this. I have considered xMM during this week's analysis in light of what you said above too. He comes from an orthodox jewish background and I think that has much to do their initial pairing 30 years ago. I don't know my xMM's history as you know yours. My xMM wouldn't open up enough (control thing) for me to know. Regarding "I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side," do you know that I have not been in contact with xMM since last year?

 

Anyway, regarding safe, I feel that xMM's BS is definitely more safe than me. She is closer to his age and is totally financially dependent on him. She's really not very attractive anymore. I am not being biased when I say that. It is what 5 very honest people have told me (3 of them strangers). They say she looks like a witch almost immediately upon seeing her picture. From what she has written online, she is none too sweet either. I saw a picture of her 20 years ago, and then she looked quite beautiful--not the same person. It is probably inappropriate that I mention this here, but I know she started getting into dark spiritual stuff some years back, and I think that has had a significant negative effect on her and their marriage. xMM shared that he couldn't stand it and it was one of the significant ways they had grown apart. Back to safe though, I think xMM knows BS is not likely to go anywhere anytime soon. She very much likes the gravy train he provides. Sorry that sounds crude, but it's what I perceive based on the facts. He probably has some resentment towards her on this. But it also fuels a self-righteous victim mentality, and many people enjoy that feeling because it alleviates responsibility.

 

About the rejection, yes I can see that. And again, ironically, it is what I felt from him towards me. I really think I took on his role in his M. I think he is pretty passive in his M, while I let him be dominant and in control with me. I allowed this because I realized he craved it, and frankly, I enjoyed indulging it. It did erode my self esteem in the end though.

Edited May 29, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[Chica80]

I heard this song for the first time a couple of nights ago and it's perfect for where I'm at now. Blue ain't my color, definitely not. Green is my color--alive, vibrant, happy! I'm almost back to green. Haven't felt myself in almost a year. Hope others will enjoy this music:

 

 

 

Here is where I used to be (I played these so many times while crying):

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0I7P-Y57c

 

 

 

Hope some of these songs will be cathartic to people working their way through the A aftermath.

 

 

I like the first song....here's some of mine....

 

 

 

 

[Chica80]

Hey it's cool. And I'm so happy to dialogue with you, and others, about this. I have considered xMM during this week's analysis in light of what you said above too. He comes from an orthodox jewish background and I think that has much to do their initial pairing 30 years ago. I don't know my xMM's history as you know yours. My xMM wouldn't open up enough (control thing) for me to know. Regarding "I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side," do you know that I have not been in contact with xMM since last year?

 

Anyway, regarding safe, I feel that xMM's BS is definitely more safe than me. She is closer to his age and is totally financially dependent on him. She's really not very attractive anymore. I am not being biased when I say that. It is what 5 very honest people have told me (3 of them strangers). They say she looks like a witch almost immediately upon seeing her picture. From what she has written online, she is none too sweet either. I saw a picture of her 20 years ago, and then she looked quite beautiful--not the same person. It is probably inappropriate that I mention this here, but I know she started getting into dark spiritual stuff some years back, and I think that has had a significant negative effect on her and their marriage. xMM shared that he couldn't stand it and it was one of the significant ways they had grown apart. Back to safe though, I think xMM knows BS is not likely to go anywhere anytime soon. She very much likes the gravy train he provides. Sorry that sounds crude, but it's what I perceive based on the facts. He probably has some resentment towards her on this. But it also fuels a self-righteous victim mentality, and many people enjoy that feeling because it alleviates responsibility.

 

About the rejection, yes I can see that. And again, ironically, it is what I felt from him towards me. I really think I took on his role in his M. I think he is pretty passive in his M, while I let him be dominant and in control with me. I allowed this because I realized he craved it, and frankly, I enjoyed indulging it. It did erode my self esteem in the end though.

 

 

sorry I think you misunderstood.... "I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side," .....I wasn't saying that to you, that is what my friend had text me.

 

Like we talked about a few days ago. I do think about MM wife, I do feel bad, angry but not enough to have stopped...(sorry that is what I meant).

Unless you are totally inhumane I think the AP you do think about it but it is not at the forefront, you block it out as needed in order to do what we do. Does that make sense?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I like the first song....here's some of mine....

 

 

 

 

 

All really good. Jealous made me cry and made my dog put her head up and stare at me for a while to be sure I am ok.

 

I love the dollhouse song! I would love that anyway because I don't like fake.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

sorry I think you misunderstood.... "I hope you will please stop it is devastating on the other side," .....I wasn't saying that to you, that is what my friend had text me.

 

Like we talked about a few days ago. I do think about MM wife, I do feel bad, angry but not enough to have stopped...(sorry that is what I meant).

Unless you are totally inhumane I think the AP you do think about it but it is not at the forefront, you block it out as needed in order to do what we do. Does that make sense?

 

I did misunderstand. Thanks for clarifying. I think all three persons in the triangle have something to learn. I am soon going to post in the infidelity section asking why BS stays when WW continues to cheat. I wish for you that you and xMM were able to have a relationship without infidelity, but I do believe the two of you are learning from each other. Side note, early into my A, I told xMM he made my world feel like it was in technicolor and I thanked him for it. Told him my life was pretty good before him, but he made it technicolor. It's like he brought all my senses more alive. His response was that we learn from each other. I thought it was weird but I took it to mean he was learning things from me too. Boy, have I learned! Many painful, but valuable, lessons I have learned from him.

[Chica80]

I did misunderstand. Thanks for clarifying. I think all three persons in the triangle have something to learn. I am soon going to post in the infidelity section asking why BS stays when WW continues to cheat. I wish for you that you and xMM were able to have a relationship without infidelity, but I do believe the two of you are learning from each other. Side note, early into my A, I told xMM he made my world feel like it was in technicolor and I thanked him for it. Told him my life was pretty good before him, but he made it technicolor. It's like he brought all my senses more alive. His response was that we learn from each other. I thought it was weird but I took it to mean he was learning things from me too. Boy, have I learned! Many painful, but valuable, lessons I have learned from him.

 

I agree.. I've learned a lot about myself through this process.

 

Throughout this time I've had what I like to call "clicks" where something makes sense or you see things you didn't see before...

 

That article you shared last week was a big "click" for me. It came at a much needed perfect moment.

 

One of the things I didn't want to admit was I had made the A, a lot about ex. The issues in our M. While those may be true and were there....the A was a choice and ya it was born from a lot of resentment and hurt....ultimately a way out....but very painful and destroying everything on it's way out....

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I agree.. I've learned a lot about myself through this process.

 

Throughout this time I've had what I like to call "clicks" where something makes sense or you see things you didn't see before...

 

That article you shared last week was a big "click" for me. It came at a much needed perfect moment.

 

One of the things I didn't want to admit was I had made the A, a lot about ex. The issues in our M. While those may be true and were there....the A was a choice and ya it was born from a lot of resentment and hurt....ultimately a way out....but very painful and destroying everything on it's way out....

 

Have you posted in detail about the bolded part on LS? I'm interested in hearing more. Also, seems like this A was an exit A for you but is a split self A for your AP. Does that make sense? I have come to believe that my A was a split self A for my xMM.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OW/OM for the WW serve to (generally speaking):

 

1) prop up WW's marriage by supplementing what is missing for WW in M, making WW happy so WW can bring that happiness into the M (OW/OM will be lonely);

 

2) force reconciliation and conflict resolution between BS and WW--if there is a dday, all the marital issues come to light to be addressed and OW/OM, having served their purpose, are kicked to the curb;

 

3) be WW's rebound partner should the M not survive. OW/OM most likely will be discarded after WW either is strong enough to stand alone, or is able to finally R with BS.

[Chica80]

Have you posted in detail about the bolded part on LS? I'm interested in hearing more. Also, seems like this A was an exit A for you but is a split self A for your AP. Does that make sense? I have come to believe that my A was a split self A for my xMM.

 

Yes Split for AP.

Yes Exit for me..

 

It's one of the things I we MM and I had talked about. I don't wish I had stayed married. I'm better out of it.

 

I wish that I had been able to do it on my own. Without him, without him being there or muddying up the process in my head. (At the time I didn't think I could). Divorce in an of itself is already messy and painful for everyone, an A just makes it a whole lot worse.

 

And I go back and forth between do I wish it wouldn't have happened or not...

Because although I don't believe there is anything different or unique about how our A has played out and unfolded.....I do believe there is a bond and love between he and I, if that makes any sense.

I just wish it hadn't happened in this context in this way.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Yes Split for AP.

Yes Exit for me..

 

It's one of the things I we MM and I had talked about. I don't wish I had stayed married. I'm better out of it.

 

I wish that I had been able to do it on my own. Without him, without him being there or muddying up the process in my head. (At the time I didn't think I could). Divorce in an of itself is already messy and painful for everyone, an A just makes it a whole lot worse.

 

And I go back and forth between do I wish it wouldn't have happened or not...

Because although I don't believe there is anything different or unique about how our A has played out and unfolded.....I do believe there is a bond and love between he and I, if that makes any sense.

I just wish it hadn't happened in this context in this way.

 

Yes, this makes sense. Question just to eliminate any of my crazy thoughts about this> if your AP had given you space before your D, and come back strictly as a platonic friend with infrequent contact before and/or during your D, would it still have muddied up the process in your head?

 

How did it muddy up your head? Were you distracted during the D when making custody/financial decisions? From observing my friends' now going thru D, I see how it is an absolute roller coaster ride--not a fun one!

[Chica80]

Yes, this makes sense. Question just to eliminate any of my crazy thoughts about this> if your AP had given you space before your D, and come back strictly as a platonic friend with infrequent contact before and/or during your D, would it still have muddied up the process in your head?

 

How did it muddy up your head? Were you distracted during the D when making custody/financial decisions? From observing my friends' now going thru D, I see how it is an absolute roller coaster ride--not a fun one!

 

Well like I said going through a D is a nightmare, process was started last summer.....still not over.....

 

Honestly, I'm not sure? I think I would have stayed and "tried again". There was a period right after he got married. He came back it was supposed to be over between us. It was supposed to end when he got married. So I moved some of my shifts to different ones, I didn't contact him no text etc. For two weeks we had no contact....ex and I were somewhat peaceful and kind of getting along. Then he text me. It was something dumb like hope you have a good weekend...That was it and we were back in.

 

When things in the A started I was not in a good place, my reasons for staying were always, my children, I don't want to be divorced, my parents friends church etc will all be disappointed. They weren't because of ex.

 

And although I went back in forth in my head (work things out stay or not) from the time they started going bad/ and A, I was adamant w ex I was done.

And all the problems we had in our M, all the things that led us there the dysfunction the unhealthy patterns we had created over years....none of that mattered because I had an A and I chose to leave the M. I just "rewrote history in my head" "it's not really that bad" so it negates any fault on ex for the problems that were there before and makes it all about A.

 

That's what I mean by muddy. Even now, I miss having a "family unit" but I don't miss ex and I don't miss being married.

 

But this was two years ago.....Then I thought I needed someone else to go to, to rescue me, to take care of me.

 

So knowing what I know now, all I've learned now and become stronger yes I wish I would have left on my own without having "someone else" to go to.