WS. Not telling the whole truth

[Violince]

These flowery words of regret are nice, but I find myself wondering this OP: If you hadn't gotten caught, would you still be carrying out this affair?

 

I wouldn't be insulting your OM so much, YOU were the one who cheated on your husband. So you're just as bad as he is.

 

I'm not sure that you are truly sorry for cheating, you are instead sorry that you GOT CAUGHT.

 

Oh, believe me, I place exactly as much blame on OM as he deserves, which is some but certainly not the majority. I am well aware of the depths of depravity.

 

I don't believe it would still be going on. Maybe some of that is wishful thinking; there's no way to know because I did get caught. But despite the depravity, I had been feeling more and more uncomfortable with the position I was in when it was caught. It might have been another month or maybe two. Too long, of course. But I think one of us would have finally just said look, we've been trying to rationalize this for weeks and we can't. It's beyond time to stop. I wish it had happened that way. No, I'm not sorry because Ii got caught. I'm sorry that I broke my husband's heart so many times, that I couldn't take the knowledge that he has always been the better man and used it wisely, and that I put us in this terrible place *again*, in trying to repair the damage I'd done in the initial fallout. I'm sorry that I put my marriage and family (and his) in danger through my actions. I can't prove it to anyone here, much less my husband, but I'm done with hiding and lying and this is what's left.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Violince

[aileD]

I was the BS, my WH was flip flopping between AP and me.

 

In his mind, he strayed because he didn't think I even cared anymore, I didn't show it, etc etc (not entirely true but it was his feelings at the time).

 

He lived with AP for a few months. I just kept steady in my love for him. Kept making sure he knew, worked on myself and let him know the changes I saw in myself, texted him i loved him every single night even when we fought, sent him articles upon articles and websites showing that we could make it work, that marriages can be restored, etc.

 

It was that consistency that he says helped him find his way back.

 

it's different on your end because you were the WS and you have no excuse for going outside the marriage and disrespecting him like that. so the only thing you can do is to stay consistent in your love for him and your desire to be together. Find resources. give him space when needed. Show in your actions that you have changed, are remorseful, and want this marriage.

 

I also have said all the time to people over the years....there are some people on this earth who have the ability to "get over" their partner's affair and rebuild...and there are some people that just Can't get past it. It doesn't mean one type of person is better than the other . It just is part of life. I'm one that can get past it, my cousin...she tries and tries, but she just can't seem to move beyond the betrayal. It doesn't make me a better person than her. It just is what it is. Your husband probably doesn't know where he falls yet. It might take time and distance from things to help heal him, or he may never be able to see you the same.

 

You have to accept him for who he is, and his choice based on your actions. We can be sorry and remorseful and learn our lessons, but it may not be enough and that's ok.

 

I wish you the best.

[drifter777]

Given that your OM is a guy who you admittedly have been carrying a torch for all of this time then I agree with your husband. You never did "really" love him in the way he would define love. Your definition doesn't matter as you add your own color and rationalization to it. His definition is all that matters to him.

 

That's fair. Thank you. The way he would define it, no, because it wasn't (to my lasting Shame/remorse/regret etc) exclusive. I truly hope he would not see it as not love at all, once the shock of this wears off.

For your sake I hope you are right. I will emphasize that this particular piece - that he is an Ex - is going to complicate things.

 

Now he's left. Let him go and start working to understand your true motivations for looking for validation with an old flame. If you guys decide to try to reconcile, understanding yourself is one of the first things you need to do anyway.

He's still here, for now, but says I should begin to prepare myself mentally for what a separation would look like. I have a therapy appt on Thursday.

I misunderstood.

 

He may want to leave but he is having a hard time sorting out all the crap that his leaving will entail. You have been a source of strength to him for a long time. Can you imagine the impact your betrayal is having on him right now?

 

Look - if you had done all this sexting with some random guy it would be bad enough. But it's your Ex and your husband is correctly putting 2 + 2 together and recognizing that you prefer a fantasy life with that guy to the real life with him. At the very least you have to agree that this fact taints your entire marriage. I think carrying a torch for an Ex is a very sensitive subject for all married couples because of the deep-down fear that exists in all of us that we are not good enough. Now you've verified that for him and I don't know what the consequences of that is going to be and, likely, neither does he. One thing I can promise you is that no matter how badly hurt and damaged he is right now that, since it's an Ex, it is going to get worse.

God, I hope not. I do not prefer a fantasy life. There was a brief but horrifying period where I felt hopeless in the fantasy relationship, and believed it would be better if it were the real one. I will never forgive myself for that. What I wanted from total disclosure was to be completely honest with my husband, to show him that I was no longer holding anything back, for the sole purpose of rebuilding, in the phrase several posters have used, on an honest foundation. That I could be completely vulnerable.

 

I'm speaking as a man - a BH. He can't believe anything you tell him because you have proven to be unfaithful. You've proven that you DID prefer the fantasy world you had with your Ex to him and your marriage. So now you have to convince him that THIS is the real you - not that woman who stupidly chased a fantasy. The is an EA - yes - but even to me it feels like a PA. There was so much pure sex associated that I'm not sure that, to a man, this isn't just as bad. When their wife cheats, many men are crushed by the sexual component much more than any emotional connection. For months and years after the affair they have mind-movies of their wife in bed with the OM and it triggers the whole ugly thing again. That's why, for most men, an EA is easier to recover from because they are not tortured by such things.

 

I don't think your H is going to divorce you. He's going to stay and try to get through this because he doesn't want to face the world without you. I think you know how dependent he is on you and that's your ace in the hole in all of this. But just because he doesn't leave doesn't mean this damage will ever be repaired.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I was the BS, my WH was flip flopping between AP and me.

 

In his mind, he strayed because he didn't think I even cared anymore, I didn't show it, etc etc (not entirely true but it was his feelings at the time).

 

He lived with AP for a few months. I just kept steady in my love for him. Kept making sure he knew, worked on myself and let him know the changes I saw in myself, texted him i loved him every single night even when we fought, sent him articles upon articles and websites showing that we could make it work, that marriages can be restored, etc.

 

It was that consistency that he says helped him find his way back.

 

it's different on your end because you were the WS and you have no excuse for going outside the marriage and disrespecting him like that. so the only thing you can do is to stay consistent in your love for him and your desire to be together. Find resources. give him space when needed. Show in your actions that you have changed, are remorseful, and want this marriage.

 

 

I am curious. I know your story AileD. So reading the above bolded part, you hold yourself responsible for your H's A because he didn't think you cared anymore. He left and went to live with another woman - and you blame yourself. But you say the OP has no such excuse for her A? How is this? What if she felt he didn't care anymore about her? Your husband gets a free pass because of this, that and the other but the OP gets no sympathy whatsoever - because she is a woman? and the woman is somehow always left holding the bag? maybe we are held to a higher standard?

 

There are pages and pages of posts here attacking this woman. Maybe because I'm both a BS and xMW I see the humanity. What is her story, why did this happen?

[Violince]

Jesus. The things in the other thread -- do you have to make it worse than it already is? I've given him the truth. Your adding "oh she might have X or Y or Z, here's a vivid description you'll never get out of your head, enjoy!" does no one ANY good. He's already on the edge of leaving me. Putting more things that are complete fabrications for nothing more than shock value is NOT helping!

 

And yeah, I know I shouldn't care what they say, but ffs, why?? Why do you want to tip him further into the abyss? I've done enough of that, he doesn't need more!

[Violince]

He may want to leave but he is having a hard time sorting out all the crap that his leaving will entail. You have been a source of strength to him for a long time. Can you imagine the impact your betrayal is having on him right now?

Yes, I can. It's nothing compared to what he's feeling, but it's ripping me apart. I was trying to do the right thing. It was too late. I don't want it to be too late.

 

I'm speaking as a man - a BH. He can't believe anything you tell him because you have proven to be unfaithful. You've proven that you DID prefer the fantasy world you had with your Ex to him and your marriage. So now you have to convince him that THIS is the real you - not that woman who stupidly chased a fantasy. The is an EA - yes - but even to me it feels like a PA. There was so much pure sex associated that I'm not sure that, to a man, this isn't just as bad. When their wife cheats, many men are crushed by the sexual component much more than any emotional connection. For months and years after the affair they have mind-movies of their wife in bed with the OM and it triggers the whole ugly thing again. That's why, for most men, an EA is easier to recover from because they are not tortured by such things.

The last six months have been getting so much better than the 15 months. I know it's because of SI and "Not Just Friends" and *really* learning what I had done and what I had to change. The first 15 months, we had nothing. We were blind and trying to put together a puzzle. I have learned so much more since then, and done my damnedest to apply it. I know he can't see that right now. I think that if he leaves now, he might never be able to see it, but it's there. I *am not* the same as I was when I betrayed him. He called me a sociopath today and I don't blame him for it, after reading that list, but a sociopath would have just blithely kept on lying, not tried to do the right thing, however late.

 

I don't think your H is going to divorce you. He's going to stay and try to get through this because he doesn't want to face the world without you. I think you know how dependent he is on you and that's your ace in the hole in all of this. But just because he doesn't leave doesn't mean this damage will ever be repaired.

I hope that he does, and that eventually it's not out of dependence but love. I don't think I have an ace anywhere. I have a man I love but who can't believe I do, a man I broke through my selfish and thoughtless actions, but a man who is everything I want for the rest of my life. He thinks I'll go back to the AP if he leaves. I could never, not now. Not if he showed up on my doorstep and begged me. He deserves nothing from me. I hate what we did to my husband and our lives.

[Sub]

Jesus. The things in the other thread -- do you have to make it worse than it already is? I've given him the truth. Your adding "oh she might have X or Y or Z, here's a vivid description you'll never get out of your head, enjoy!" does no one ANY good. He's already on the edge of leaving me. Putting more things that are complete fabrications for nothing more than shock value is NOT helping!

 

And yeah, I know I shouldn't care what they say, but ffs, why?? Why do you want to tip him further into the abyss? I've done enough of that, he doesn't need more!

 

I think there's a lot of constructive discussion so far there. Don't focus on the more extreme posts. Besides, it is his thread and he came looking for input from that side of it. You have every right to not like some of what's said, but nobody there is looking to make things worse for him.

[aileD]

I am curious. I know your story AileD. So reading the above bolded part, you hold yourself responsible for your H's A because he didn't think you cared anymore. He left and went to live with another woman - and you blame yourself. But you say the OP has no such excuse for her A? How is this? What if she felt he didn't care anymore about her? Your husband gets a free pass because of this, that and the other but the OP gets no sympathy whatsoever - because she is a woman? and the woman is somehow always left holding the bag? maybe we are held to a higher standard?

 

There are pages and pages of posts here attacking this woman. Maybe because I'm both a BS and xMW I see the humanity. What is her story, why did this happen?

 

What? I think you misunderstood. I don't blame myself for my husband's affair. Just like the OP, there is no excuse for going outside the marriage. Yes, I did do the things I mentioned, was neglectful...but that's a problem to be handled inside the marriage...there's no excuse for going outside. He could have divorced me first. But also if I wanted to save the marriage I had/have to be honest about the bad things in it and my contribution and if I do want the marriage to work, I had to change too.

 

And if you read my post to the OP I wasn't being mean to her, I was actually giving her tips. Give him space, send him articles and websites, tell him you love him every night. Etc

 

I'm a little confused by your response.

Edited September 21, 2016 by aileD

[BluesPower]

V, as bad as it is, and it could get worse, YOUR HUSBAND STILL LOVES YOU.

 

If he did not, he would be gone. If he did not, he would not be mad.

 

Try to hand on for the next few days, minute by minute, and you will both get through this.

[Violince]

V, as bad as it is, and it could get worse, YOUR HUSBAND STILL LOVES YOU.

 

If he did not, he would be gone. If he did not, he would not be mad.

 

Try to hand on for the next few days, minute by minute, and you will both get through this.

 

I hope you're right. The refrain has been "this is too much" and "I can't do this again" and I know, I know!

 

I wanted to protect him from the most awful parts of me, and that was wrong. I knew this was coming and I tried to stop it, and that was wrong. Preparing to tell him was right, and it's still all gone wrong. I hate the me who let this happen. I wasn't thinking about future me, let alone future BH. Just hanging on to my own selfish wants with no thought to what would happen. That's not who I am! I want to kick my past self into a bloody pulp or break her fingers so she can't go on and do this.

 

But it's useless. All I can do now is hang on to what's left, and hope that the changes I've made and am making will be enough to show him that the future is so much better than the past! That 20 years going forward will see so many better things, together. And oh, god, if he leaves, please tell me there's still hope!

[heartwhole]

I can't read your husband's mind, but I know that I have never wanted to give up on my WH. My only fear was that he wouldn't dig deep enough to be the man I need and deserve.

 

Dig deep. Be your best self. Think of the future. Put him before yourself. Find ways to be content and cope with life that don't involve escapes of any kind, especially illicit relationships. Be honest and transparent, even when it's harder. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

[BluesPower]

V...Breath.

 

I could be wrong, but I really feel that this will work out. You have made about every mistake that you could me and he is not gone yet.

 

He is in shock, all over again that this time it is worse. Just hang on, work on you and be there for him.

 

I know that it is not much but just keep hanging on...

[turnera]

How transparent are you being on a daily basis? Does he know where you are all the time? Did you put a GPS on your phone so he can check? Did you take all your passwords off everything? Did you offer to tell his family what you did and apologize for hurting him?

[Violince]

How transparent are you being on a daily basis? Does he know where you are all the time? Did you put a GPS on your phone so he can check? Did you take all your passwords off everything? Did you offer to tell his family what you did and apologize for hurting him?

 

It was long distance so GPS is not really an issue, but yes, he can always see my whereabouts if he needs to with Google services. He has access to all my accounts. I have talked with his father (who disclosed an to his mother affair just as BH and I were getting together) but BH really does not want to tell his mother because of that.

 

To Lion Heart: I know some people probably do sit down and decide to have an affair. That wasn't how it was. I'm still working on why I would allow it to happen, but it was a slippery slope rather than a single decision in this case, and only when several lines had been passed did it occur to me that this wasn't a variation on "just friends". I need to find out why I allowed it to continue after that point. Something was broken. I can't put myself back in that mindset, and I really don't understand it now.

 

As for twelve months, there are shades of gray here. We went NC almost immediately. However, I was miserable, and without resources beyond "how to help your spouse heal from your affair," we were both flying blind. My husband, against his own self-interest, allowed me to reconnect with the AP on a friendly basis, with full access to our conversations. There were periods in which we did not talk (and the talk was friendly only, though to my shame I did sometimes delete lines in the text of there were even a hint of mild flirtation -- so many red flags, I know) because my husband would get so miserable himself that I would realize it was my fault. But then after he was doing better i would start again. It was a terrible cycle. We were floundering without knowing what we were doing, and we both made mistakes.

 

In December he asked me finally just to stop. Again, to my shame, I took the friendly conversation underground in mid-January. It wear awkward and felt wrong (duh) and was neither long-term nor prolific then, but it did go on very sporadically until mid-March. Two things happened then: I ended it because I'd finally reached a level of the guilt that I had to listen to; and BH found SI. I think I've gone into this elsewhere in this thread. So to say that communication continued for a year is true, but the majority of it -- however wrong -- was not underground, and none of it was anything like it had been before. Once I read "not just friends" I finally understood why it should never have continued before. I blame myself for not pursuing those resources early on. Perhaps it's degrees of evil at this point. But I needed to clarify that.

 

And, I'm sorry if this hasn't been clear in either of our threads, but I was working towards full disclosure when he found the document I had been writing, still in progress, on my tablet. I needed to sort through the previous year and figure out exactly what he didn't know, and I can't do that just in my head so I was writing it down. Disclosure was coming. I had been working in the file for all of three days when he found it, and then was enraged that I hadn't just come to him instead of putting it in writing. That was my work, his finding it was on him. The night before I had searched for a way to password protect documents in Google drive, but didn't find one, and assumed he wasn't checking drive on a regular basis. He wasn't, but did Monday morning. So much for the best-laid plans. I wanted to do something right for once.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Violince

[Violince]

If you're reading both threads, you'll have seen his update. To say that I'm relieved is an understatement I can't even begin to describe. It will be my life's goal to prove I'm worthy is whatever trust he can muster for me, to love him the way he's always deserved to be loved, and to make sure he is always safe with me. I see my therapist tomorrow and I hope to work on why i allowed this to happen, how to get over conflict avoidance, and better coping skills, for a start. I want to make sure our next 20/40/60? years are the best they can possibly be and make up for the time we lost in the last ten years.

[Violince]

Merrmeade, your comments on my topic had a huge effect on my decision to come clean, so thank you for that. Your experience was helpful and I appreciate it. You think I was looking for sympathy and encouragement, but there you're wrong. I'd have gone to an OW site if that's what I wanted. I came with the resolution that I wasn't going to tell and try to move on from there, and instead, omg, actually listened. Bless your heart.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Violince

[Cephalopod]

I stand by what I said in your husband's thread. I can only hope that what I said makes you want to work to prove to him that my theory about the kind of love you have for him was wrong.

 

One thing I have to mention, and I will not post here again. I think you overplay the defense that this affair was somehow not so bad or threatening to your marriage because it was a"long distance" online affair. You have mentioned that a lot. Well, that defense doesn't cut it, because the ugly truth of the matter is, had your OM found a way to relocate to your city, that "long distance" malarkey would no longer have been an obstacle, and you would have been in the throes of a full on physical affair with him.

 

So... you need to dump the minimizing. It doesn't fly.

 

Good luck to you and your husband. I do hope you two salvage your marriage.

[Owl6118]

V, in AA I learned a cople sayings. One is, "your best thinking got you here." Another is, "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity."

 

If you really want to change, and become a safe person, I would suggest you work every day on cultivating radical humility. Humility is not being a doormat. Nor is it surrendering judgement. Or automony.

 

It is cultivating an attitude in which you try harder to listen to others voices before shouting your own. To empathize with the feeling behind others' suggestions and thoughts even if you disagree with some of the specifics. To sit with that disagreement, and see, if, on reflection, your mind changes a bit.

 

I remember you from tbe other site. I just reread your posts. When I did I knew why I never posted to your threads. They had that "junkie feel." And I say thus as a junkie. You were so quick to search for the flaws in others arguments. So swift to assert why your ideas were better. And though I didnt know it (though I could feel it) you were most firm and forceful when posters got intuitively close to the secrets you were keeping and the lies you were telling.

 

That record is a very precious thing. It can be amazingly helpful to you now. Go back, and see yourself. See yourself confusing the trail, misdirecting, denying, challenging those who were trying to help you but were uncomfortably close to being right about you.

 

That was your best thinking. It got you here. But if you can start to embrace radical humility you can learn a lot from looking at your past best thinking. And you can start to combat it.

 

Where your reflex is hit back (with denial, with argument, with justification) listen.

 

Note: just a few posts ago, after the blowup, you were STILL hitting back, all injured dignity, at what others wrote to your husband. All how dare they. Hit, hit, hit.

 

Radical humility, V. Radical humility. What if you looked for the emotional truth in what they wrote and said, it doesnt matter that the details are wrong, this is insight into what my husband feels or might feel. It is insight I can use, fears I try to heal with truth and compassion and empathy and listening.

 

Where your reflex is to feel your pain, focus on your husbands.

 

Where your reflex is to conceal and lie, tell the truth, the radical truth. Complete, factual, and unadorned with justification.

 

This is your bottom. You purchased it at your husband's expense. Dont let his sacrifice go to waste.

 

And V, one note about Heinlein. I find his stories very entertaining and reread him often. But not for nothing is a lot of his work called juveniles. Yes, it means they were written for tweeners. But it also means, to me, they were morally juvenile. You are not Friday. No one is Friday. Friday is a fantasy, and so is RAH's concept of carefree polyamory. Time to grow up, V.

[Violince]

Owl, you may not believe me, but I have been thinking today about going back to SI and apologizing. I did reread all those threads the other day and yeah, I'm really blown away by my arrogance. I think there's something about being hit right where you know you're most culpable to bring out defensiveness. And I wasn't just gaslighting my husband. I really wanted to believe my own lies. I'm ashamed by my behavior, and I don't expect anyone here to believe that I got there myself, but I did and I agree completely.

 

I haven't read Heinlein in ages. If I didn't know it before, I certainly know now that it doesn't work that way.

 

Please understand, my hurt at the posters in his thread is because my perception is that they are trying to talk my husband out of our marriage. That's fine for them but they don't have the full story. No one here does. I trust my husband to make the right choices for him, but if there's misinformation, should I really allow it to stand? If it were your relationship and your family at stake, could you sit mute? I can try. It feels very wrong to me, when people say my vagina must be plastered all over the internet (no photos like that) or videos (no videos). Those assumptions (and similar; moderators removed those two thankfully) are factually incorrect. I don't think that's defensive or arrogant to dispute, but if silence is preferred in the face of such things, play on.

[Violince]

[quote=Cephalopod;7060745

One thing I have to mention, and I will not post here again. I think you overplay the defense that this affair was somehow not so bad or threatening to your marriage because it was a"long distance" online affair. You have mentioned that a lot. Well, that defense doesn't cut it, because the ugly truth of the matter is, had your OM found a way to relocate to your city, that "long distance" malarkey would no longer have been an obstacle, and you would have been in the throes of a full on physical affair with him.

My apologies if you read it as minimising. I view it as clarifying when people jump to the assumption that we were actually having intercourse. I know a simple EA, without even sexual content, is as damaging as a PA. It certainly was to my husband.

[Owl6118]

Gently, I ask you again. Your best thinking has been to dispute, argue, set us straight. It got you here.

 

And insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

But right now, in your reply to me, you are doing the same thing--arguing your corner. Setting me straight. With a nice little passive aggressive jab at the end--that little last sentence.

 

I'm not hurt or mad, I don't know you and this isn't about me.

 

It's about you.

 

What would happen if you said, in response to those posts, that hey, just this once, instead of arguing with strangers on the Internet, I will go to my husband and say, "about those questions in those posts... do you have those questions? Where the fear is wrong, I will tell you. And I will also tell you where the details in those suggestions are wrong, but the sense is right, becuase I didnt do that but I did do this other thing that will hurt you to know. It is bad and hard to tell you but I will now tell you the real fears that really are true and not infantalize you any more."

 

Humility, and radical honesty.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Owl6118

[Violince]

What would happen if you said, in response to those posts, that hey, just this once, instead of arguing with strangers on the Internet, I will go to my husband and say, "about those questions in those posts... do you have those questions? Where the fear is wrong, I will tell you. And I will also tell you where the details in those suggestions are wrong, but the sense is right, becuase I didnt do that but I did do this other thing that will hurt you to know. It is bad and hard to tell you but I will now tell you the real fears that really are true and not infantalize you any more."

 

I am doing that too. Thank you.

[Violince]

Since I was still somewhat conflicted in my feelings for OM when I started this thread, let me update: "good" feelings gone. If I think of him, there's revulsion and anger. At him and the things we did. (Yes, at myself as well.) I feel ill and the room spins when it happens. Writing that document forced me to recall things I'd tried to suppress and now it just makes me nauseated. I should have done it months ago and spared us both this pain and the ludicrous lingering feelings I had. I can't understand what I was thinking. Therapy tomorrow.

[BuddyX]

Just because you're repulsed by the OMM doesn't mean your all of sudden attracted to your husband. Attraction is not a choice. Your hubby has a right to assume it's all a facade.

 

Therapy is step in the right direction.

[Violince]

Just because you're repulsed by the OMM doesn't mean your all of sudden attracted to your husband. Attraction is not a choice. Your hubby has a right to assume it's all a facade.

 

Therapy is step in the right direction.

Thank you. He knows it's never been a facade. I never lost my attraction to him and it's stronger now than ever before, not because of what I feel or don't feel for OM, but because I love my husband and attraction is part of that. I appreciate your concern.