WS. Not telling the whole truth

[goodyblue]

Well I guess she doesn't NEED to, but in order to begin living a healthy life and marriage she should. Guilt is good in that it helps us realize we have done something that we feel is wrong but then it has no purpose once we know. We move on to live a happier life and know we won't do it again.

[merrmeade]

Well I guess she doesn't NEED to, but in order to begin living a healthy life and marriage she should. Guilt is good in that it helps us realize we have done something that we feel is wrong but then it has no purpose once we know. We move on to live a happier life and know we won't do it again.

And THAT is a slippery slope. No, it's simply not time to worry about whether or not SHE is going to get over her oh so painful guilt.

 

I've thought about this one a lot. And btw this is not about projecting my personal circumstances on someone else's situation. I've written about this before here and deeply believe that it is not helpful to the cheater (or anyone else who has wounded another human being) to help them get 'over it' sooner rather than later. I don't say I know what's the right amount of time, but look at Mrs. JA. She says she doesn't WANT to be 'over it' but to always be reminded of the potential. Although even that is not really what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying that there HAS to be real suffering with the remorse for there to be forgiveness and it is not a bad thing. Just as the BS should not rug-sweep and bury his pain, neither should the WS. It's life and it's a natural consequence of the events. In fact, her keeping how much she's suffering for him a secret along with the rest is also depriving him of a very special insight into how much his wife really does love him! She's wrong about the way she thinks she has to show it to him because she's treating him like a child instead of an equal. If she could give him the credit and hope of being maybe not the same man who was suicidal however many years ago and give herself and her marriage the hope and confidence that - together with his wish to make it better and become stronger and her own - they will cry together a whole lot more, talk late into many, many nights and, yes, suffer a LOT but they will come out of it together in full knowledge of each other - as it should be.

 

And THAT is health.

[goodyblue]

And THAT is a slippery slope. No, it's simply not time to worry about whether or not SHE is going to get over her oh so painful guilt.

 

I've thought about this one a lot. And btw this is not about projecting my personal circumstances on someone else's situation. I've written about this before here and deeply believe that it is not helpful to the cheater (or anyone else who has wounded another human being) to help them get 'over it' sooner rather than later. I don't say I know what's the right amount of time, but look at Mrs. JA. She says she doesn't WANT to be 'over it' but to always be reminded of the potential. Although even that is not really what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying that there HAS to be real suffering with the remorse for there to be forgiveness and it is not a bad thing. Just as the BS should not rug-sweep and bury his pain, neither should the WS. It's life and it's a natural consequence of the events. In fact, her keeping how much she's suffering for him a secret along with the rest is also depriving him of a very special insight into how much his wife really does love him! She's wrong about the way she thinks she has to show it to him because she's treating him like a child instead of an equal. If she could give him the credit and hope of being maybe not the same man who was suicidal however many years ago and give herself and her marriage the hope and confidence that - together with his wish to make it better and become stronger and her own - they will cry together a whole lot more, talk late into many, many nights and, yes, suffer a LOT but they will come out of it together in full knowledge of each other - as it should be.

 

And THAT is health.

 

She isn't going to tell him anything more. It will do her no good after all this time to hold on to it. She WANTS to get past it and live a happy life. That is healthy.

[merrmeade]

She isn't going to tell him anything more. It will do her no good after all this time to hold on to it. She WANTS to get past it and live a happy life. That is healthy.

Well, I've said it six ways from Sunday. Done here. I think this issue is a WS/BS watershed, Mason-Dixon line, the line in the sand.

[Mrs. John Adams]

And THAT is a slippery slope. No, it's simply not time to worry about whether or not SHE is going to get over her oh so painful guilt.

 

I've thought about this one a lot. And btw this is not about projecting my personal circumstances on someone else's situation. I've written about this before here and deeply believe that it is not helpful to the cheater (or anyone else who has wounded another human being) to help them get 'over it' sooner rather than later. I don't say I know what's the right amount of time, but look at Mrs. JA. She says she doesn't WANT to be 'over it' but to always be reminded of the potential. Although even that is not really what I'm saying.

 

I'm saying that there HAS to be real suffering with the remorse for there to be forgiveness and it is not a bad thing. Just as the BS should not rug-sweep and bury his pain, neither should the WS. It's life and it's a natural consequence of the events. In fact, her keeping how much she's suffering for him a secret along with the rest is also depriving him of a very special insight into how much his wife really does love him! She's wrong about the way she thinks she has to show it to him because she's treating him like a child instead of an equal. If she could give him the credit and hope of being maybe not the same man who was suicidal however many years ago and give herself and her marriage the hope and confidence that - together with his wish to make it better and become stronger and her own - they will cry together a whole lot more, talk late into many, many nights and, yes, suffer a LOT but they will come out of it together in full knowledge of each other - as it should be.

 

And THAT is health.

 

In "moving forward" we very often take a step backward to do so.

 

It is NEVER to late to right a wrong.....just because we have lied in the past...does't mean we cannot make amends now. If i lied to my husband early in our reconciliation...it was self preservation. As we grow as waywards and come to understand what remorse is...we must also become honest...or healing for neither of us will happen.

 

I understand conflict avoidance....I hate confrontation. I also hate feeling guilty..or being punished....

 

But sometimes...to move past infidelity...we must confront it head on. We must DEAL with the guilt and process our feelings and the reasons we committed adultery in the first place. How can we as waywards...ever grow beyond being a repeat offender.

 

Obviously we have something within us that allowed us to cheat in the first place. If we do not properly deal with THAT...who's to say when confronted by that same demon again...we don't react the very same way?

 

We have a guilty conscience for a reason...to help us to decide what is proper and improper behavior. Instead of running from the guilt...as I believe the op has expressed she wants to do....I say embrace the guilt...because that guilt is how we learn from the bad choices we have done.

 

There comes a time when we all have to be accountable for our actions....whether we like it or not. There comes a time when we must be honest with ourselves....in order for us to improve ourselves.

 

Regardless whether the op ever tells all to her betrayed husband...SHE knows the truth....but she is in denial of the effects of the lies as well as the infidelity. The damage has already happened....the pain has already been experienced.

 

Now she needs to concentrate on healing....and in order for healing to occur for herself AND her spouse...she has to become transparent and honest. Oh she might be able to become a good actress..she might be able to hide ....but she KNOWS the truth...and as long as she knows that she is living a lie...healing...complete healing will never come for either of them.

 

The choice is yours....live a lie and never heal...or tell the truth...and heal each other. Sometimes healing does not mean reconciliation. Sometimes healing does indeed mean divorce....but i think it is only fair that the betrayed spouse gets to decide what is best for them...after all....as a wayward...we made really bad decisions for ourselves and our spouse....don't you think that perhaps our betrayed spouse deserves the opportunity to decide what is best for them NOW? I believe it is right and fair.

 

I recently had a a person contact me... a serial cheater....who has cheated yet again. He told me...he can't do this anymore...so he is asking for a divorce.

 

My answer to him was this....how dare YOU ask your wife for a divorce. Don't you think you at least owe her the truth about who you are...and let HER make the best decision for HER...or do you think that you get to also make that decision for her? You did not ask her permission to cheat on her...do you also get to make her decision what she might want to do now?

 

what that says to me...is that he is still in a very selfish state of mind....and i fear when waywards hide behind this banner of...I don't want to hurt him...therefore I will not tell the truth....we are indeed in a selfish state of mind...and healing will not come for us...and it certainly will not come for our betrayed.

[Darren Steez]

The AP was a college flame I never got over (still haven't, but we're NC so it's all in my head now)

 

This is in your head. The foundations of whatever you are building are based on this.

 

So the essence of this story is you're lying to your husband and you're lying to yourself if you think moving forward you're building anything tangible. He doesn't have the full truth. The behaviors that lead you to having an affair which till this day you're still cultivating remain.

 

Houses built on quicksand come to mind....

[Doorstopper]

The the OP: You said you said/did things to your AP that you have never done to/with your husband. How can you explain that to your husband?

Edited August 19, 2016 by Doorstopper

[harrybrown]

Do something for your spouse. This week, if you ever loved him.

 

put him ahead of your AP. the AP is a POSOM.

 

Tell his wife about your A and do not protect the OM over your H.

you are still not seeing that the POSOM is a fantasy and cheated with a married woman. (and he is cheating with others as well).

 

This will put your H first and also help close your crazy thoughts and loving your H when you still have feelings for the POSOM. Would you like to have your H love someone else at the same time as you? That would not bother you? Put your H ahead and get the fantasy out of your head and deal with reality. Do you really love your H? how can you when you are showing that you love the POSOM more than your H? How would you really like the roles reversed? No wonder he is depressed. You would be depressed also, knowing that you POSOM had other lovers and your H had an AP.

 

Also, have you in reality done those things that you talked about with your AP with your H?

 

How can you say you love him, when you will share part of you with a cheating AP and not with your H?

 

Do you really love your H and what to repair your marriage? Start by putting your H way ahead of your fantasy with the AP. Doesn't your H deserve more from you than what you are giving him now? He did not file for D when he found out. You might have filed for D if you ever found out that he had an EA. Start giving him more from you and give less of yourself to the AP.

 

And close the door with the AP and tell his wife. this should help you close that door for your fantasies with the AP. You are still thinking fondly of him.

What about your H that did not cheat with a married woman and give him more of yourself?

 

I hope you wake up and start really showing your H that you are grateful for him. Do you have any children? If not, and you can't do these things for your H, then file for D and let him go.

[merrmeade]

In "moving forward" we very often take a step backward to do so.

 

It is NEVER to late to right a wrong.....just because we have lied in the past...does't mean we cannot make amends now. If i lied to my husband early in our reconciliation...it was self preservation. As we grow as waywards and come to understand what remorse is...we must also become honest...or healing for neither of us will happen.

 

I understand conflict avoidance....I hate confrontation. I also hate feeling guilty..or being punished....

 

But sometimes...to move past infidelity...we must confront it head on. We must DEAL with the guilt and process our feelings and the reasons we committed adultery in the first place. How can we as waywards...ever grow beyond being a repeat offender.

 

Obviously we have something within us that allowed us to cheat in the first place. If we do not properly deal with THAT...who's to say when confronted by that same demon again...we don't react the very same way?

 

We have a guilty conscience for a reason...to help us to decide what is proper and improper behavior. Instead of running from the guilt...as I believe the op has expressed she wants to do....I say embrace the guilt...because that guilt is how we learn from the bad choices we have done.

 

There comes a time when we all have to be accountable for our actions....whether we like it or not. There comes a time when we must be honest with ourselves....in order for us to improve ourselves.

 

Regardless whether the op ever tells all to her betrayed husband...SHE knows the truth....but she is in denial of the effects of the lies as well as the infidelity. The damage has already happened....the pain has already been experienced.

 

Now she needs to concentrate on healing....and in order for healing to occur for herself AND her spouse...she has to become transparent and honest. Oh she might be able to become a good actress..she might be able to hide ....but she KNOWS the truth...and as long as she knows that she is living a lie...healing...complete healing will never come for either of them.

 

The choice is yours....live a lie and never heal...or tell the truth...and heal each other. Sometimes healing does not mean reconciliation. Sometimes healing does indeed mean divorce....but i think it is only fair that the betrayed spouse gets to decide what is best for them...after all....as a wayward...we made really bad decisions for ourselves and our spouse....don't you think that perhaps our betrayed spouse deserves the opportunity to decide what is best for them NOW? I believe it is right and fair.

 

I recently had a a person contact me... a serial cheater....who has cheated yet again. He told me...he can't do this anymore...so he is asking for a divorce.

 

My answer to him was this....how dare YOU ask your wife for a divorce. Don't you think you at least owe her the truth about who you are...and let HER make the best decision for HER...or do you think that you get to also make that decision for her? You did not ask her permission to cheat on her...do you also get to make her decision what she might want to do now?

 

what that says to me...is that he is still in a very selfish state of mind....and i fear when waywards hide behind this banner of...I don't want to hurt him...therefore I will not tell the truth....we are indeed in a selfish state of mind...and healing will not come for us...and it certainly will not come for our betrayed.

What shines through in each of these ^^^ paragraphs is personal integrity. Mrs. JA's confessed to her WH and learned to embrace remorse and vigilance on a daily basis out of respect for the possibilities that led her to err in the first place. But the fact is she already has a deep-seated need to be true to what she knows to be good and good for her and those she loves. I think personal integrity includes being true to your core values but also finding the BEST in yourself so that you bring out the best in those you love. I think a marriage with integrity is one in which both partners do and are this for each other. She and her husband talk about and work hard at defining and living the core values they feel that their relationship must embody. So you see it's possible. Look at every paragraph in Mrs. JA's post. That's what they share. My parents were like that. My son and his wife are like that (so I can hope that maybe I contributed a little). I know some people are able to live it.

 

Now, granted I don't have that and won't because my H does not share my passion and unshakeable commitment to these things. He is passionate about serving others in his way, but he's perfectly willing to compromise truth here and there, a little or a lot and whenever is necessary for (what he thinks is) the greater good for the most people. Therefore, he always knows I will never deceive him, and he also THINKS that I should trust that he will (from now on) always be trustworthy. He BELIEVES that he is trustworthy because he, like you, feels so bad about what he did. But he also thought he thought he could handle the seductive circumstances that led him to weaken with this persona and that over the years. So now he has made personal sacrifice his priority which includes paying for more than I do, helping in the little things without complaining and not fighting, putting my pleasure and happiness first. He thinks that's doing everything he can is the most he can do. And he can't understand what language I'm speaking when I say I want the inner person, the secrets and the thoughts about them, more than I want his self-imposed penance.

 

But he thinks like OP and convinces himself this is the best he must do for both of us. And, though I KNOW there is more he didn't tell me - just as I'm sure your H knows in his heart of hearts - I've learned a LOT that is so much more damning than most other situations I've decided to accept the compromise to my own integrity by settling for less than we could be and less than I deserve. But I do NOT think for a minute it's ideal or that others should do it.

[LostinScience]

< moderator note: to avoid confusion we have moved this post to its own thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/595845-i-am-op-s-bs >

Edited September 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Violince]

Thank you, mods.

 

This has been eating me alive since long before I posted last month. On Friday I sat down and wrote out all of the things he didn't already know. All of the worst of it. I'd been working on it daily, girding myself to bring it up with him -- writing it down to help me remember and clarify -- but this morning he opened my Google docs and read it.

 

I had started to write "it's as bad as I feared" but since he's still here and not actively pursuing suicide, that's not true. But it is bad and I feel every bit the monster I am. One of the many horrible things is that now I've actually told the whole truth, he can't possibly believe me. I just have to live with that and know I deserve it and do my best to earn back his trust, if that's ever possible. He isn't leaving, although he says he should. I'm grateful for that.

 

It's taken me far, far too long to really get inside my own head and see the tangled mess there. Progress i thought I'd made months ago was just more rationalization. I feel like it's finally clear, not because of this but leading up to it. I dearly wish I hadn't been such a coward. I gaslighted him without knowing that's what it was, trying desperately to believe my own lies. I know how ****ed up I am. I need to find help and I will. I'm so tired.

[harrybrown]

The trickle truth makes the BS feel like another Dday and puts them back to the original Dday.

 

It also makes them very angry and the lack of trust will be there for a long time.

 

Your actions speck louder than your words. Do the things that you did with the OM if he will let you.

 

Also protect your H over the OM. Inform his wife of the A to show your H that you choose him over the OM for once.

 

Good luck to you. You may want to contact affair recovery, you can find that company online.

[Violince]

I don't want to reply in my BS's thread (I'm sure that's frowned upon) but NC has been total since April (too late, but late March was when he showed me SI and I finally saw what a fraud and a monster I had been). I don't know how I would prove that to him, though. He's had full access to my devices since shortly after D-day, but I'm ashamed to say I was very good at keeping it hidden. I understand that will complicate reconciliation now. I have invited him to put keyloggers on my devices since April 6 but he trusted me that much and did not do so. Since then I have not had anything newly-occurring to hide. I'm beyond ashamed of what went before.

[Marc878]

As you've found the truth is always best. Keep that in mind for your future.

[BluesPower]

This is all for the better, believe me. It does not feel that way now, but you guys can really start to work for real on your marriage.

 

You just need to hang tough. You are no more of a monster than half the people on this site. You are not even in the same league as Me, you are not even close.

 

So calm down and be thankful that it is out and he is not leaving you for now.

 

You CAN GET THROUGH THIS, I promise...

[GoldenR]

So late March to April 6th....that's when you were supposed to be NC but you weren't and you hid that from your H?

[GoldenR]

Wait.....you had a PA? Why lie to us, complete strangers on an internet forum, unless you were planning on having H "find" this thread?

[Violince]

So late March to April 6th....that's when you were supposed to be NC but you weren't and you hid that from your H?

 

It was mid-January through April 6, although (and I know this doesn't make it any better) I had been feeling increasingly awful about it through late February and March, would often tell myself okay, this is the last time, and would go for days and after a while a week or more at a time before breaking and messaging again. So it was very sporadic in March and then when I started reading on SI, that's when it finally clicked.

 

What my husband cannot comprehend -- and I don't blame him because nor can I now -- is how I could go on taking to him after everything that has happened. I believed I was different, that the AP relationship was different, that we could just be friends and not go "there" anymore, and if BH didn't know, it wouldn't be hurting him. Of course that's the same twisted thinking that got me into this mess in the first place. It shouldn't have taken anything but my beloved husband's pain to make me snap, and I hate myself for my actions and reactions. That I could be so callous and self-control centered after *everything*. I can't fathom it now.

 

If I'd read "not just friends" immediately after D-day or stuck it out with what felt to me like useless therapy (because he wanted to focus on me and all I wanted to do was help my BH!) I would have learned better. Instead I clung stubbornly to the notion that this was different and I "needed" him and so it was okay. A lot of it was stubbornness and arrogance and I'm so ashamed of how I behaved, who I was then. He hates that phrase, but if something in you changes drastically, even if it takes time, I don't think you're the same exact person anymore. My brain is me, and my brain is different than it was then. I digress.

[Violince]

Wait.....you had a PA? Why lie to us, complete strangers on an internet forum, unless you were planning on having H "find" this thread?

 

No, we did not meet in person during the affair. It was emotional, but there was cyber/sexting towards the end. I don't know what that technically makes it. There was a physical component but at a great distance. No bodily fluids were exchanged, "just" words and unfortunately sounds.

[GoldenR]

I understand.....and I understand that it can mean one thing to one person but not to the other.

[harrybrown]

have you informed the spouse of the OM to show your H how you are putting him ahead of the OM now?

[Violince]

have you informed the spouse of the OM to show your H how you are putting him ahead of the OM now?

 

If he wants me to, I will. He didn't want to initially. I know he's rethinking that now.

[Rubix Cubed]

From cowardly cop out to karma in 1 month. You keep saying how you don't want to hurt him but you already did that when you cheated, everything after that is selfish protection of yourself.You never even considered the fact that he would find out, and now that he did the damage is exponentially worse because of the deception. You don't seem to grasp that. Now that he knows ask him if he appreciates you "protecting" him from the truth. You never gave him a choice, but You better thank your lucky stars if he now gives you a chance to make it up to him.

[Violince]

From cowardly cop out to karma in 1 month. You keep saying how you don't want to hurt him but you already did that when you cheated, everything after that is selfish protection of yourself.You never even considered the fact that he would find out, and now that he did the damage is exponentially worse because of the deception. You don't seem to grasp that. Now that he knows ask him if he appreciates you "protecting" him from the truth. You never gave him a choice, but You better thank your lucky stars if he now gives you a chance to make it up to him.

 

All true. I know. I do grasp it. It's horrifying.

[Rubix Cubed]

I don't get the feeling you do. I think you are still focused on yourself and your pain.

You would also be wise to toughen up and go take your lumps on his thread which may help give him some solace, and help show him you are willing to put in the work and do the heavy lifting even if it is embarrassing.