Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[understand50]

Guys, you will never convince me that OP and wife's swinging lifestyle is to blame, in any way, for his wife betrayal.

 

 

I would argue that it in fact makes it worse. If you all feel that way, so be it.

 

 

I think that is sad.

 

Ditto,

 

What we failed at is answering CW original question, "should I give her a second chance". In my opinion yes, but she has much hard work to do. Their lifestyle has nothing to do with the basic issue, the fact that she betrayed and lied to him.

 

I wish them luck.....

[Mr Blunt]

 

Originally Posted by Mr Blunt

Your wife liked the swinging sex when you were friends with her, then she liked the swinging sex when you were married for years, and now she enjoyed the sex with her three bowling buddies. You approved of the swinging sex when you were friends and when you were married and now you are irate because your wife was having sex with other men and left you out of the action. Yes she lied and deceived but what did you expect? You both allowed her to get addicted to sex with other men and it would just be a matter of time before she left you out.

 

 

By Careless Whispers

This makes no sense to me at all. What I approved was swinging with mutual consent. We never had an open marriage where either of us could whatever we want whenever we want.

 

To follow your logic, if you approved of your partner going to a casino and spending money back when you were friends, and the again after you were married that it would be ok if then years later she has a two year gambling binge and loses a fortune. That it would be your fault for opening the door to gambling.

 

I hope I have misunderstood and that is not what you are suggesting, because if it is I find your theory absolute rubbish.

Everyone agrees that the lying and cheating is the main issue and the main person at fault is your wife. But you and your supporters on this thread trying to make swinging as a non-factor in your wife’s appetite for sex with other men is rubbish. Your wife knew that you would not approve of her having sex with those three men but her appetite was such that she compromised and lied and cheated anyway. You approved of that appetite years ago and continued to approve for years after you were married and you still approve.

 

You can make all kinds of scenarios trying to white wash the effects of you and your wife making the decision to allow other people to have sex with both of you and you enjoying watching some other man to put the meat to your wife but look at the real results. That tells the truth more than your gambling scenario.

 

By Road

When a wife is given up to other men she does not feel valued by her husband because she is not being mate guarded by her husband.

 

By Cephalopod

Once sexual taboos are done away with in a relationship, it often leads to problems down the road. If the WW had a latent sexual addiction before OP met her, the swinging just fueled the fire and unleashed the kraken.

The two posts above make some valid points!

 

 

CW, I do not care if you or your fans want to support swinging or watching your spouse get porked by another person. My opinion and posts are for others that read this thread and wonder if swinging and other twisted ideas about sex and marriage is a non-factor in causing big trouble in marriage.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Mr Blunt

[aliveagain]

Ditto,

 

What we failed at is answering CW original question, "should I give her a second chance". In my opinion yes, but she has much hard work to do. Their lifestyle has nothing to do with the basic issue, the fact that she betrayed and lied to him.

 

I wish them luck.....

 

Friend it is not very often I disagree with you but I do not believe she deserves a second chance. I believe they need to end the marriage, too much was done to trash everything the marriage stood for. I think that in order for him to get back the respect he deserves he needs to finish killing off what she started with her affairs. What is he showing everyone that knows them, what is he showing his children(who will know about their mother one day). He needs to remember that the last person on this earth she hurt is the person she claimed to love the most, him. They can build a new relationship, however that looks like at some time in the future when they are both healthy. Whatever they had has to be mourned and laid to rest.

[bigman1]

For what it's worth we had the polygraph today. The results came back with all truthful answers. I guess that wont matter to many here because, you know... swingers. And we all know swingers = bad.

 

I gotta tell you, your reply is just as close minded as those you seem to criticize. It really is. Look, it is fairly simple, monogamous people don't get swinging. This whole thing about it opening up trust, or whatever swingers say is completely contradictory to monogamy. Trust, love, respect and all of that is, presumably supposed to exist in any healthy relationship. On that, open marriage folks, swingers, and monogamists can agree.

 

The thing is that (and I will speak for myself and those with whom I have discussed this) we don't get the concept of sharing your partner. That physical intimacy is equally as important. Not kind of important. Not significant. It is equally important. Thus, when you complain about uninformed or unconsented to non-monogamy, it is just illogical. In short, "if I knew she was doing it, I'd be fine" does not compute. It is the mere act of doing it.

 

Therefore, you are seeking support from people who, for the most part, do not comprehend the boundary that you have set, since it is well past the boundary they (we) accept. Swinging does not equal bad. It just is not the language that many speak. You are gonna have to be your own translator. I would imagine that the remainder of the advice might translate. I don't know. I don't get swinging. I can kinda see where you are coming from, but for me, its like you are mad that the formalities were not kept. the physical part was gonna happen. Any emotional part was gonna happen, even if you knew. The fact that you did not know that the game that you agreed could be played was being played strikes many as a distinction without a difference. Of course, it does matter to you, and I respect that, I just don't get it. Still, swingers do not equal bad. They just equal something I don't understand.

[bigman1]

As far as the second chance question, well, second chance at what?

 

Do you R and no longer engage in swinging? Do you R, but give her a second chance to violate the swinging rules? Do you end it? Why?

 

Given that you are into such a variant lifestyle, I cannot fathom why you would seek advice from people in monogamous relationships. Your question seems to be more appropriately directed towards a board with people who swing. I am sure this issue has popped up before. I'm not saying get lost, I am just saying that you are showing up to the dentist office complaining of eye problems. You gotta get to the place where your answers can best be found.

[JoeSmith357-1]

Friend it is not very often I disagree with you but I do not believe she deserves a second chance. I believe they need to end the marriage, too much was done to trash everything the marriage stood for. I think that in order for him to get back the respect he deserves he needs to finish killing off what she started with her affairs. What is he showing everyone that knows them, what is he showing his children(who will know about their mother one day). He needs to remember that the last person on this earth she hurt is the person she claimed to love the most, him. They can build a new relationship, however that looks like at some time in the future when they are both healthy. Whatever they had has to be mourned and laid to rest.

 

 

I don't see how he could ever trust her again. I've been involved in infidelity of several types before, and I know how it can eat at you. I have been in his shoes trying to justify it, in some way to continue the relationship. However, the infidelities I have dealt with were of orders of magnitude less egregious than what the OP has been put through (years of gangbangs, and lying)

[aliveagain]

The only swingers I know(three couples) one or the other, in one case both are bisexual. I am not saying that is the norm but in my limited knowledge it is. Just my opinion but I still think it comes down to trust and honour, she failed on all counts. CW will never be able to trust her again after such a brutal thrashing. Bottom line is she had an affair with one POS and then expanded it to include the whole bowling team. Why? How sick do you have to be to do this to the one you love for a couple of years? The other thing to remember is she never came clean on her own, she was busted by a PI. All that documentation will be public knowledge, it's part of the court documentation in at least two divorces. Everyone in CW's city has access to the information once it's filed including his kids. Every kid googles their parents, guess what will show up when they google mom.

Edited August 21, 2016 by aliveagain

[Cephalopod]

CW,

 

I am sorry that so many people do not understand you situation and what your going through.

 

I wish you would blow them off but I understand.

 

PM me if you want to talk. I would really like to know how YOU and your wife are doing.

 

For what it is worth, I completely understand and agree with where you are coming from. But even if I did not, I thought we at LS were supposed to be more tolerant of peoples views.

 

Try to let us know how you are doing, that is the important thing.

 

And you don't have to respond to posts that you don't like.

 

Be well...

 

I can tolerate a person's beliefs and still disagree with that person.

 

Your inability to accept that other people have opinions and values that diverge from your own makes you the intolerant one.

[BluesPower]

Cephalopod,

 

I have not written anything about not wanting other views.

 

What I said is that those who are beating up the OP here are wrong to do that.

 

Every one can have their opinions and that is great, that is what we are here for. But is you cannot see the condemnation of OP is some of these posts then maybe we just learned a different version of English, because it is obvious.

 

Some people swing, some are into BDSM, some are into things I cannot pronounce. As long as it involves consensual adults, I just really don't care.

 

Regardless of sporadic swinging, this woman cheated in a horrible way for 2 years. She did not confess, she go caught. Nothing that they did in the past contributed to her swinging, she made a choice to lie and deceive her husband.

 

You can disagree with me that is fine. I just don't think it is right to beat this man up for their shared experiences.

 

You are welcome to disagree with that as well.

 

But to say that this situation is not "cheating" or not as bad because they swing sometimes is, IMO, just silly.

 

Peace...

[CarrieT]

Like Oldshirt and OP, I also come from a background of swinging and shared partners.

 

I completely understand what CW was trying to explain and even amongst those who swing, there is a level of openness and honesty that his wife did not provide.

 

I even think a one-off "one thing lead to another" scenario might be forgiven, but - like others - I think the YEARS of duplicity would lead me to suggest that she doesn't deserve the comfort and forgiveness continuing in the marriage can offer.

 

Of course she is contrite now, but if she had ever wanted to end the three-way trysts, she could have. They only ended when they were discovered. As stated before, she was out having hot monkey sex while CW was being the babysitter and keeping the home fires burning... Burning for someone who doesn't deserve it.

[OneLov]

But is you cannot see the condemnation of OP is some of these posts then maybe we just learned a different version of English, because it is obvious.

 

But to say that this situation is not "cheating" or not as bad because they swing sometimes is, IMO, just silly.

 

Seriously. Why shame the OP? He came here for support, and he is being shamed for a choice he made to swing with his wife. That HAS nothing to do with her infidelity. If all swingers were crazed, sex freaks who cannot control their urges to have sex with everything in sight, then why is OP at home and faithful to his wife?

 

OP,

 

I'm sorry but I say nay on reconciliation. It's not how many people were involved; its that they were involved for way too long. As many have said on this site--extra-marital relationships that go on for multiple years are not affairs; they're double lives.

 

I'm sorry for your pain. Don't feel shame.

[Just a Guy]

Hi folks after reading through some of the posts on this thread it appears that some people are of the opinion that if a couple open their marriage to swinging at an early stage in their marriage, that in later years, the wife ( or maybe the husband) would be prone to having extramarital sex with or without the consent of their spouse who may, themselves, not be into it. The reason being given is that once a husband or wife has partaken of the forbidden fruit, that they would not be able to resist partaking of it in the future, if an easy opportunity presents itself. To me this position seems to beg the question of whether a man or woman, who in his or her singles days enjoyed unrestricted sex with a number of partners, would, on getting married, jump at the opportunity of having sex outside his or her marriage, just because the opportunity presented itself? If that be the case then votes at the time of marriage would be so much garbage.

The fact is that all marriages, whether monogamous or of the alternate lifestyle variety, are governed by rules and it is incumbent on the two partners in such a relationship to abide unambiguously, by these rules, to make a success of the union. If one or the other partner violates these rules then the union is, really speaking null and void. I have read on a so called Hot wife forum that full disclosure is the laid down norm and that cheating is a deal breaker. Also, if either one of the couple wants to stop participating in the lifestyle then it stops. If people do not abide by the rules then things go out of control and can result in complete chaos. In this matter the views of Carrie and Old shirt carry weight. Just a thought.

[kgcolonel]

Everyone has an opinion and examples to back up their opinion....the focus of this thread is should he go for another try with his wife who had a multi-year affair with multi-people (that he's aware of) behind his back or not.

 

It appears we ran the OP off by criticizing him for choice he and his wife chose many years ago and had since ceased that practice. Whether or not it was the root of the affair isn't the issue, should he give it another go....this to me has become a personal trigger for some and we're losing focus on the OP's question to the extent that he has abandoned the place he came looking for help. Opinions are fine but that is just what they are, opinions....no one has absolute correctness all the time....

[Robert]

On topic posts please, the topic is NOT swinging and it's implications on infidelity, please address the thread starters concerns, thanks

[Mr Blunt]

By Just A Guy

Hi folks after reading through some of the posts on this thread it appears that some people are of the opinion that if a couple open their marriage to swinging at an early stage in their marriage, that in later years, the wife (or maybe the husband) would be prone to having extramarital sex with or without the consent of their spouse who may, themselves, not be into it.

That is exactly what happened in Careless Whispers (OP) case. Facts are kind of hard to argue with.

 

 

 

 

To me this position seems to beg the question of whether a man or woman, who in his or her singles days enjoyed unrestricted sex with a number of partners, would, on getting married, jump at the opportunity of having sex outside his or her marriage, just because the opportunity presented itself? If that be the case then votes at the time of marriage would be so much garbage.

JAG, you left out one important comparison. The comparison that you left out is in bold below.

 

“who in his or her singles days enjoyed unrestricted sex with a number of partners, would, on getting married, ALSO HAVE SPOUSE AGREE AND ENCOURAGE UNRESTRICTED SEX WITH OTHER PEOPLE DURING THE MARRIAGE jump at the opportunity of having sex outside his or her marriage, just because the opportunity presented itself?

 

The answer to your question, with the added part that you left out is, in most cases YES!!

 

 

 

 

 

By the OP

I desperately want to give my wife a hug and kiss and tell her we will work it out, but does she deserve that?

 

No she does not deserve a hug and a kiss IMO. However, if you want to keep your lifestyle as a swinger then give her a hug and a kiss.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Mr Blunt

[CupCakess]

The thing is that (and I will speak for myself and those with whom I have discussed this) we don't get the concept of sharing your partner. That physical intimacy is equally as important. Not kind of important. Not significant. It is equally important. Thus, when you complain about uninformed or unconsented to non-monogamy, it is just illogical. In short, "if I knew she was doing it, I'd be fine" does not compute. It is the mere act of doing it.

 

Exactly the point. I agree completly.

 

But it is also true that most people here that don't engage in swinging, will never be able to provide a correct answer for OP.

[harrybrown]

CW-

 

so how is she going to fix this mess that she created over two years?

 

has she given you any clue about why you should continue to be married to her?

 

Good luck to you and your kids. If she can't fix it, maybe she should leave the family behind.

 

two years is a long time. I hope you find a counselor to help you with this mess that she created.

[walkertechie]

I think I just need people to slap me and tell me to wake up. I am a mess, my heart and head are pulling me different ways. I can’t sleep, I don’t want to eat, I just want my life back.

 

The short story is that my wife has been cheating with multiple guys. I know that it’s such a massive betrayal that we are finished. At the same time I desperately want to save what we have.

 

The more detailed story makes for some sad reading. We first starting seeing each other as friends with benefits some 20 odd years ago. We were young, we experimented, we did things that we probably shouldn’t have. Eventually we fell in love and became exclusive and all the playing around stopped as we committed to each other. We married, we have 5 kids, we, as far as I knew, were happy.

 

She bowled in a 10 pin bowling team with 3 guys. They used to go out to eat/drink after they bowled. I never had an issue with this. They are very good at what they do and they went out just to discuss how the night went. I have been on occasion myself, I would consider these guys friends. Certainly not close, but friends nevertheless. I have been to all their houses and met their wives. They were just decent people so I thought.

 

Anyway one of the wives thought her husband was having an affair and hired a private detective. What they found as wrecked me. Her husband was having an affair, an affair with my wife. But far far worse is that it was the whole team in some bizarre group sex thing.

 

Of course I hate her for what she has done. But nothing is ever just that easy is it. I have kids I have to think about. I can’t just walk out. I also don’t want the embarrassment. I dread having to tell family and friends if it comes to it. How do I tell the kids that their Mom is a whore? Of course I wouldn’t tell them details but just telling them my wife was cheating would be embarrassing enough.

 

She has quit bowling and severed all contact with these people now and is begging for my forgiveness. She has promised the world, promised to do whatever I ask. We have been seeing a counselor, I’m not sure whether it helps or confuses me. She answers any questions I have. The counselor warned of “trickle truthing”. I have yet to catch a lie so maybe I am getting the whole story. And the story is not pretty, this group thing had been going on for just over 2 years.

 

So here I sit lonely, in front of a computer screen. Asking strangers what would they do? I guess that’s the real question. I desperately want to give my wife a hug and kiss and tell her we will work it out, but does she deserve that? Is it even possible to rebuild from such betrayal? I’m sure people can get through a drunken one night stand but this?

 

I’m here with open ears (or eyes really) to listen to whatever anyone wants to offer. If I choose to give her a chance am I just being weak and opening myself up to a future that could be a repeat?

 

I found out about this 4 months ago. We are 47/40 years old. We first started seeing each other 22 years ago, exclusively 20 years ago.

My friend you truly have my sympathy. I know what you are going through. My wife did almost the very same thing, except one dude at a time. Married over 19 years, and cheated with at least 5 men. She only married me for green card, then once here began looking for greenier pastures to move up. Just stay true to yourself. Don't blame yourself for her mistakes. And know you are the better person. I know it sucks and is painful. But try to keep your head up, pray if you can, talk to others in a group or forum, anything to get that negativity out of your life, heart and mind. Remember Karma is a bitch and one day she will pay for what she did.

[Careless Whispers]

I haven't read the replies since my last post yet. I will do and reply when/where appropriate soon.

 

I have been in hospital for the last 5 days. I had a bit of a break down / anxiety attack. That wasn't the real concern though, the Doctors were worried that I was malnourished. I hadn't been eating right, sometimes skipping meals, so they kept me in on a drip and made me see a dietician. A bit embarrassing really.

 

Anyway I am out now. And although my wife was by my side the entire time I think I had some sort of realisation that I need to put myself first. Now I don't think I can ever do that because my kids will always come first but I have to take care of myself.

 

Although she has done everything right since the discovery I think I just need time apart from her. I don't want to be away from my kids so I have asked her to move out. She did not take it well and has begged me to let her stay. I haven't got the strength to fight about it right now so I will discuss it further with her in the next day or so.

 

We have a granny flat out the back where her mum used to live before she passed. I think in the U.S you call them secondary suites or Accessory Dwelling Units. I have asked her to move in there. Her main reason for not wanting to seems to be the embarrassment it will cause. The kids and friends will know we have issues. I think it's time she suffered some embarrassment. It's a small price to pay for what she did.

 

If she continues to flatly refuse I don't know what I will do. I don't think I can force her out and I will not leave my kids. But it will show me that the care she seems to have for me is just superficial.

 

During all this I did tell my parents, brother and best friend that she had cheated. Not the extent of it but just that it happened. They have all said they will be there for me whatever I decide. I know I should have done that earlier but you live and learn. It's quite uplifting to know people actually do understand and wont judge.

 

Of course judging by the comments here if I told them that we were swingers then that would all change and I would be judged to within an inch of my life.

 

Thanks.

[CarrieT]

I have been in hospital for the last 5 days. I had a bit of a break down / anxiety attack. That wasn't the real concern though, the Doctors were worried that I was malnourished. I hadn't been eating right, sometimes skipping meals, so they kept me in on a drip and made me see a dietician. A bit embarrassing really.

I am so sorry to hear this and hope you are on the mend soon...

 

I had some sort of realisation that I need to put myself first. Now I don't think I can ever do that because my kids will always come first but I have to take care of myself.

Good for you.

 

Although she has done everything right since the discovery I think I just need time apart from her.

This is also good. You need time to heal.

 

We have a granny flat out the back where her mum used to live before she passed. I think in the U.S you call them secondary suites or Accessory Dwelling Units. I have asked her to move in there. Her main reason for not wanting to seems to be the embarrassment it will cause. The kids and friends will know we have issues. I think it's time she suffered some embarrassment. It's a small price to pay for what she did.

This is an excellent idea. It isn't like she is going to be across town from the children and - yes - it *will* be embarrassing for her. Good. Let her be embarrassed. If this is the extent of her suffering for what she has put you through, let her be embarrassed.

 

If she continues to flatly refuse I don't know what I will do. I don't think I can force her out and I will not leave my kids. But it will show me that the care she seems to have for me is just superficial.

Very true. She needs to take whatever steps necessary to re-earn your trust and not just have a marriage that is glossy on the surface.

 

During all this I did tell my parents, brother and best friend that she had cheated. Not the extent of it but just that it happened. They have all said they will be there for me whatever I decide. I know I should have done that earlier but you live and learn. It's quite uplifting to know people actually do understand and wont judge.

Gain strength through the support of your family.

 

Of course judging by the comments here if I told them that we were swingers then that would all change and I would be judged to within an inch of my life.

They don't need to know EVERYTHING.

 

We are still here for you, CW. Take strength in knowing you are not alone. And I hope you feel better soon.

[merrmeade]

I haven't read the replies since my last post yet. I will do and reply when/where appropriate soon.

 

I have been in hospital for the last 5 days. I had a bit of a break down / anxiety attack. That wasn't the real concern though, the Doctors were worried that I was malnourished. I hadn't been eating right, sometimes skipping meals, so they kept me in on a drip and made me see a dietician. A bit embarrassing really.

 

Anyway I am out now. And although my wife was by my side the entire time I think I had some sort of realisation that I need to put myself first. Now I don't think I can ever do that because my kids will always come first but I have to take care of myself.

 

Although she has done everything right since the discovery I think I just need time apart from her. I don't want to be away from my kids so I have asked her to move out. She did not take it well and has begged me to let her stay. I haven't got the strength to fight about it right now so I will discuss it further with her in the next day or so.

 

We have a granny flat out the back where her mum used to live before she passed. I think in the U.S you call them secondary suites or Accessory Dwelling Units. I have asked her to move in there. Her main reason for not wanting to seems to be the embarrassment it will cause. The kids and friends will know we have issues. I think it's time she suffered some embarrassment. It's a small price to pay for what she did.

 

If she continues to flatly refuse I don't know what I will do. I don't think I can force her out and I will not leave my kids. But it will show me that the care she seems to have for me is just superficial.

 

During all this I did tell my parents, brother and best friend that she had cheated. Not the extent of it but just that it happened. They have all said they will be there for me whatever I decide. I know I should have done that earlier but you live and learn. It's quite uplifting to know people actually do understand and wont judge.

 

Of course judging by the comments here if I told them that we were swingers then that would all change and I would be judged to within an inch of my life.

 

Thanks.

Oh, CW, I've been following form p. 1 and am SO, SO sorry you've been crushed to this extent, but I also totally understand how it could happen. I could have been there just as well (except I never miss a meal though wish I could!)

 

Your dDay was huge, and so was mine. Mine included trickle truth over some months to finally realize my WH is a serial cheater and had multiple EA/PAs with every sister-in-law I have and friends. Totally beyond the pale. And yet we're reconciling.

 

But whether or not you reconcile in the end, what I wanted to tell you was this:

Even though my H confessed because he was found out, he was SO READY to unburden himself with his own awfulness. He hesitated and TT'd longer because of the people involved - as I said: relatives and friends. His shame about all this is massive and so was his need to change. I'm just saying this because I think you can appreciate that as disgusting and enormous as the infidelity is, the WS really can be secretly hoping for fate to intervene and save them from themselves.

[merrmeade]

- though no one should get too carried away in their sympathy for the devil here. It's still what it is and they should suffer a natural lifetime and then some for such betrayals.

[Cephalopod]

Having her move into the mother in law's cottage is a small price to pay for what she did. I think you are being more than generous.

 

If the tables were turned she would have kicked you out on the street...you know she would have.

[aliveagain]

You need to take care of your children and yourself, it is your turn to be selfish. There is no way to protect her from the fallout that is about to happen as she will be named in at least two divorces. This information will soon be available in the public domain, she did nothing to protect you or your children by her actions and some may judge you depending on how you react. She was absolutely reckless and her recklessness and the damage she has caused everyone is all on her. Now she is worried about the embarrassment moving out will cause her. Why wasn't she worried about that the last two years when she was having unprotected sex with her entire bowling team? Do not buy into that logic because no amount of begging or crocodile tears will change what people will perceive of her when the truth comes out. You need to talk to a lawyer, you need to get her into independent counselling because her fantasy world is crashing down around her. Sorry for your pain, nothing you did caused her to do this, this is all her own doing and she needs to deal with the consequences caused by her selfishness.

Edited August 28, 2016 by aliveagain

[Cephalopod]

It would take every ounce of self control I had not to take a baseball bat and go after very one of those bowling team members.