Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[Cephalopod]

It is absolute denial to say the past swinging had nothing to do with this. Once sexual taboos are done away with in a relationship, it often leads to problems down the road. If the WW had a latent sexual addiction before OP met her, the swinging just fueled the fire and unleashed the kraken.

 

Opening up a marriage is just not worth the risk in my opinion.

[understand50]

For what it's worth we had the polygraph today. The results came back with all truthful answers. I guess that wont matter to many here because, you know... swingers. And we all know swingers = bad.

 

CW,

 

While swinging is not for my wife and I, I understand that the main issue here is the lying and betrayal. As she could have come to you and asked, and from your past actions, could have assumed that you would listen, maybe not agreed to, but you are open to her enjoying this, just not with friends. I see where you hurt and pain is.

 

So, look, the swinging is a red herring. The real issue, is her dishonesty. That is what you will have to forgive, and then get past. I have the same issue with my wife, and all who where ever betrayed, have this main issue as well. Other have real issues with the sexual component of the cheating.

 

How, to reconcile and not really fully trust your wife is your challenge. She can read lots of books and threads on what she needs to do, and what actions show she is remorseful and working to repair the marriage and relationship. You have it harder, in that you will have to learn to live without fully trusting. Here is the secret, that all BS have. We never fully trust again, even if we divorce. We never forget, that the WS was capable of doing this and lying about it to our face. If they keep to the straight and narrow, some of it can came back, but never all of it.

 

I think that you want to reconcile for many reasons, some that escape many here. This is not a bad thing, and I hope that you work on it with your wife to make it successful. You have many kids, and you love your wife. Your life style is beside the point, and I hope when you work on your issues, that being trustful and honest with each other is front and center in the conversations. The big question I would have for her, if I was you, is why did you have to lye? Why could you not come to me and disuses what you were feeling and thinking?

 

Hang in there, and I wish you luck......

[road]

CW,

 

While swinging is not for my wife and I, I understand that the main issue here is the lying and betrayal. As she could have come to you and asked, and from your past actions, could have assumed that you would listen, maybe not agreed to, but you are open to her enjoying this, just not with friends. I see where you hurt and pain is.

 

So, look, the swinging is a red herring. The real issue, is her dishonesty. That is what you will have to forgive, and then get past. I have the same issue with my wife, and all who where ever betrayed, have this main issue as well. Other have real issues with the sexual component of the cheating.

 

How, to reconcile and not really fully trust your wife is your challenge. She can read lots of books and threads on what she needs to do, and what actions show she is remorseful and working to repair the marriage and relationship. You have it harder, in that you will have to learn to live without fully trusting. Here is the secret, that all BS have. We never fully trust again, even if we divorce. We never forget, that the WS was capable of doing this and lying about it to our face. If they keep to the straight and narrow, some of it can came back, but never all of it.

 

I think that you want to reconcile for many reasons, some that escape many here. This is not a bad thing, and I hope that you work on it with your wife to make it successful. You have many kids, and you love your wife. Your life style is beside the point, and I hope when you work on your issues, that being trustful and honest with each other is front and center in the conversations. The big question I would have for her, if I was you, is why did you have to lye? Why could you not come to me and disuses what you were feeling and thinking?

 

Hang in there, and I wish you luck......

 

 

 

 

So you are saying the WW just had an affair for the Halibut?

 

 

According to my Aunt Chovy, allowing other men in the past to enter their relationship was not a Red Herring.

 

 

It was a red flag before they got married that she wanted, liked, needed, sex with other men. The OP ignored this red flag and married his WW thinking that he could ride the bull. Though in the end the bull got him.

[BluesPower]

I really think we need to get off of OP about the swinging. I'm just saying.

 

The dude is hurting, and while some people may not agree with all his choices, they are valid choices. And his description up their history in no way, at all, excuses her behavior.

 

This is a 2 year affair under his nose while he was watching the kids and she could go bowling. Come on folks.

 

This is a huge, huge betrayal, but it is not because of the sex, which is horrible because of the rules that they had in place and because she was so callus as to invite hubby to bowling parties where all the guys that were screwing her could laugh behind his back.

 

Give this guy a break. CW, please post and come back and let us know how you are doing?

 

Thinking of you dude...

[sandylee1]

CW,

 

I'm glad the poly came back with her being honest. Many people don't get the whole swinging thing. It's not part of my marriage, but I understand how it seems like you're defending your wife, when it's not what you want to do.

 

Sex behind your back with 3 men, is not the same as swinging.

 

I disagree with the comments about a wife going on to have affairs because of swinging. There are so many women who cheat and swinging has never been a feature of their marriage. In fact it's probably only the case in a small percentage of infidelity cases.

 

I do hear of either husband or wife going off with the threesome M or F. It can be risky.

 

The same way a the wife of a swinging couple cheats, the husband could do as well.

 

I think if a couple swings, it should actually eliminate cheating, because you can easily broach the subject of wanting another adventure. However, the reality is people get greedy and want more

[oldshirt]

Cheat'n is cheat'n.

 

While it may seem intuitive to say that you should never tolerate any form of swinging because it will make your wife more likely to cheat we need to remember that people and cultures and societies have gone to great lengths to keep wives from hooking up with other men.

 

There are places today where it is still perfectly legal to douse your wife with gasoline and set her on fire for cheating. There are places where females are virtual prisoners in the home and denied educations, employment and not allow to leave the house without a male, blood relative escort.

 

There are places where women are covered in bed sheets so men can't seem them and hit in them.

 

There are places where an adulteress can be stoned or shot publicaly.

 

And guess what??? They still screw around.

 

Cheating is the lying and deceiving and going outside the rules and boundaries of the relationship. It doesn't really matter where you place those rules and boundaries, cheating is going outside of it.

 

Cheating is a character issue and an issue of respect of your spouse and marriage. It's not really about sex drive or sexual interests or preferences.

[oldshirt]

Now I will say this - not all swinging is created equal and some activities do carry a higher risk than others for someone to lose respect and esteem for their partner.

 

The whole Hotwife/cuckold senario in my opinion carries an increased risk of a wife losing respect and esteem for her husband and that in return can lead to a loss of attraction and desire for him.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a direct causation of cheating but in my opinion does increase the chances higher than garden variety mate swapping or FMF threesomes etc.

 

This is all just one man's opinion of course but I've seen that scenario go bad enough that at least I am convinced that it can easily lead to a loss of respect, attraction and desire for the husband and a greater respect and attraction to play partners, but cheating is still another issue.

 

Cheating is still a character and lying/deception issue.

[road]

I really think we need to get off of OP about the swinging. I'm just saying.

 

The dude is hurting, and while some people may not agree with all his choices, they are valid choices. And his description up their history in no way, at all, excuses her behavior.

 

This is a 2 year affair under his nose while he was watching the kids and she could go bowling. Come on folks.

 

This is a huge, huge betrayal, but it is not because of the sex, which is horrible because of the rules that they had in place and because she was so callus as to invite hubby to bowling parties where all the guys that were screwing her could laugh behind his back.

 

Give this guy a break. CW, please post and come back and let us know how you are doing?

 

Thinking of you dude...

 

Your post indicates seeing life experiences, not a victim of infidelity, so you down play the dangers open marriage and swinging because you have not seen all the marriages that got wrecked from those activities.

 

 

It is not about getting off or on the OP it is about warning other men to not be foolish with their wives.

[road]

CW,

 

I'm glad the poly came back with her being honest. Many people don't get the whole swinging thing. It's not part of my marriage, but I understand how it seems like you're defending your wife, when it's not what you want to do.

 

Sex behind your back with 3 men, is not the same as swinging.

 

I disagree with the comments about a wife going on to have affairs because of swinging. There are so many women who cheat and swinging has never been a feature of their marriage. In fact it's probably only the case in a small percentage of infidelity cases.

 

I do hear of either husband or wife going off with the threesome M or F. It can be risky.

 

The same way a the wife of a swinging couple cheats, the husband could do as well.

 

I think if a couple swings, it should actually eliminate cheating, because you can easily broach the subject of wanting another adventure. However, the reality is people get greedy and want more

 

Swinging is not a requirement to have an affair.

 

 

Many women cheat and never had an open marriage.

 

 

Though many women never cheated till after their husband opened the marriage.

 

 

And you can not see this connection? So sad.

Edited August 21, 2016 by road

[usa1ah]

Did you ever ask her if she was cheating on you during the two years this went on? If not then she did not lie to you. You have allowed her to sleep with other men during your marriage, so what's the big deal.

 

You allow yourself to be CO on vacation why not now?

 

I have read your post and it has been your lifestyle that allowed this to happen. I believe your wife is sorry for hurting you but did not think you would react like this.

 

Good luck with the mess you made.

[oldshirt]

Swinging is not a requirement to have an affair.

 

 

Many women cheat and never had an open marriage.

 

 

Though many women never cheated till after their husband opened the marriage.

 

 

And you can not see this connection? So sad.

 

But you are trying to put swinging into the role of causation or at least attribution.

 

Yes there have been people who have cheated after swinging, but that doesn't mean that the swinging played any kind of role in the infidelity.

 

An argument can be made that not allowing your spouse any interaction with the opposite sex can be a greater threat because the yearning for variety and attention from others can build up and get to be too great.

 

Again, wives in cultures where they are kept guarded at home, covered head to toe, and publicaly stoned and burned alive for infidelity still cheat.

 

Cheating is it's own entity. It has it's own set of factors and causations.

 

Those factors and causations are self-centeredness, entitlement, lack of empathy, lack of respect etc etc on the part of the WS.

 

There can also be factors of the BS. Boundaries and expectations must be set and enforced whether someone is a swinger or monogamist. Mate guarding still applies whether swinger or monogamist. People need to take care of themselves and be attractive for each other whether swinger or monogamist. People need to be personally connected to each other and maintain a healthy relationship whether swinger or monogamist.

 

The act of swinging itself neither leads to nor prevents cheating. It's all though other things mentioned that factor in to all relationships irregardless of whether swinging is part of the mix or not.

[Careless Whispers]

Did you ever ask her if she was cheating on you during the two years this went on?

 

No. Why would I?

Would a couple in a monogamous relationship ask the other if they were cheating without reason? No.

So what's the difference?

 

If not then she did not lie to you.

 

"I'm just going out for drinks with my bowling team" - Is that a lie?

Going for drinks might be true, but the omission of and then i'm going back to **** them makes it a lie.

 

You have allowed her to sleep with other men during your marriage, so what's the big deal.

 

To be fair that is true. And I've allowed her sleep with other women. And she's allowed me to be with other women. And we've been with couples. etc etc

 

What's the big deal? All of that, every single time, was done with the consent of all parties. We discussed beforehand, we developed rules, either of us had a right to end it or refuse at any time. This time she took all that away, she took MY choice away, MY ability to approve or disapprove.

 

How can you NOT see what the big deal is there?

 

I have read your post and it has been your lifestyle that allowed this to happen. I believe your wife is sorry for hurting you but did not think you would react like this.

 

You may have read my posts but you haven't comprehended them.

 

Our lifestyle allowed for other partners with approval, with consent. The lifestyle does not allow for other partners outside of those rules. She broke the rules. It was not the lifestyle that allowed the cheating, it was her choice to ignore the rules.

 

Just remember it was our lifestyle. I am not a cheat, I am not predestined to cheat, cheating is not on my radar.... yet I too am a swinger. Go figure.

 

------

 

I know swinging isn't everyone's cup of tea, but the ignorance around what the issues are in my situation are truly staggering.

 

I thank all the posters that genuinely tried to help, I really do appreciate it. I would have loved to have stayed here and kept on bouncing ideas around and listening to empathetic people. However the barrage of posts deriding the lifestyle makes it difficult to come here without feeling the need to defend myself and the other posts tend to get lost in the mix. I don't really have the energy to keep defending myself right now, I have far bigger issues I need to deal with.

 

I would have loved to discuss issues as the arise but it's not worth the anxiety I feel seeing post after post attacking an aspect of my relationship that is not part of the problem. If I can draw parallel, it would be akin to blaming being gay as the reason one half of a gay couple cheated. It has nothing to do with the reason yet the ill informed and ignorant people will still see that as an issue.

 

Sorry for the rant. I honestly wish it turned out different.

[kgcolonel]

CW....I can see where you're coming from....I think at the moment, the key is "where is your wife's head and how is she acting?"

 

I totlally agree with you in that swinging was not the issue as you two did that together and she made the choice to go behind your back and do other men, misleading you. (This is not to defend others but I think that many who have been cheated on or who have cheated are pre-conditioned to jump on the band wagon that if you engage in an activity that would threaten them, personally, they want to blame this activity as the cause).

 

There are many of us here who would like to assist you and you can simply ignore the attackers or perceived attackers. How is your wife behaving ATM? Have you two been to MC or IC on this topic? Is she being fully transparent etc.?

[BluesPower]

CW,

 

I am sorry that so many people do not understand you situation and what your going through.

 

I wish you would blow them off but I understand.

 

PM me if you want to talk. I would really like to know how YOU and your wife are doing.

 

For what it is worth, I completely understand and agree with where you are coming from. But even if I did not, I thought we at LS were supposed to be more tolerant of peoples views.

 

Try to let us know how you are doing, that is the important thing.

 

And you don't have to respond to posts that you don't like.

 

Be well...

[kgcolonel]

CW, you are welcome to PM me as well....I'll do my best to be an objective voice if you chose to do so.

[oldshirt]

And you are welcome to PM me as well.

 

My wife and I were very involved in the lifestyle for many years. We still dabble in it Occasionally but have mostly settled back in to a traditional marriage the last few years, so I can see both sides of that aisle.

[oldshirt]

I'll just throw this out there as an ironic sidebar, but back in our swinging days I was on a couple swinging forums.

 

What is interesting is that supposedly what research has been done shows that the swinging community has slightly less infidelity and slightly less divorce than the general populace. However when you go to a swinging forum, the topic of cheating comes up there as well.

 

The perspective of the swinging community is the opposite if what prevails here however. There is a mentality in the swinging community that is you allow a certain degree of sexual expression and exploration within the marriage under certain boundaries with consent, people will be less likely stray outside the marriage to seek it.

 

In other words, many swingers see swinging as a means to reduce the chances of infidelity.

 

Many feel the yearning for strange is innate and can't be eliminated but it can be managed. So like water building up behind a dam, the pressure can be reduced and controlled by releasing a certain amount intentionally.

 

My personal opinion is that both camps are wrong. Neither swinging nor strict monogamy can eliminate nor ensure that infidelity will occur.

 

IMHO cheating is stepping outside the rules and engaging in selfish, destructive behavior regardless of where on the spectrum the rules are.

 

Cheating is a character issue and a respect and boundary issue, not a sexual dynamic issue.

 

Swinging will neither cause not prevent cheating.

 

Neither will monogamy.

[BettyDraper]

This betrayal has nothing to do with swinging.

 

Married couples who swing have complete knowledge of their spouses having sex with others.

 

The OP's wife lied and cheated which is entirely different.

[aliveagain]

Folks the problem here is not a lifestyle, a political affiliation or a religious belief. The problem is that CW married a woman that lied and deceived him for years about her fidelity. She's just a nastier version of your every day cheating wife. He now knows who she really is and the question is what is he going to do about it? There are divorces that are happening because of their actions, family's are being broken up. She was the key as to whether infidelity happening or not. The unknown here is how many people know about Mrs. CW, too many adults involved for this to be kept a secret, too many divorces in play. I still believe that video's and photographs were made of the action on someone's cell phone and those will one day surface to cause you and your family more shame.

 

You too will be judged by your community, just look at the feedback your getting on this forum and people on this forum are more aware of infidelity then a couple you might meet at a supermarket. You will always wonder who knows about your wife. Those that do know will not only tell others, they will secretly judge you, stuff like this goes viral in almost every normal community. I think that no matter what you decide long term you need to divorce this woman because there is no fixing what she has done to you and your family(children, siblings, parents, close friends). Get her help to fix what is broken and then sometime in the future when everyone is healthy again marry each other again if the love is still there. This is not just about you and your cheating wife, this is about everyone that loves you that have also been hurt by her actions. Just my opinion, at least talk to a lawyer.

[understand50]

CW,

 

Feel free to PM me as well, if you think I may have something to offer. As for LS, the best way to deal with posts that just attack, or do not accept your decision, reconcile or divorce, just do not read then or respond. At some point, your needs must come first here. Remember, we are just "whispers on the internet" only take what you need. As for defending your wife and yourself, that is what we do. In many ways it shows that you want to stay with her. It all come down to what you want, and what you think is best for yourself, your kids, and for your wife. She will also have to make these decisions as well. What is "best" is for you two to decide.

 

Again, you and your wife have some hard work to go to do. If it is anything, I think you have done well in how you have handled this. Time will help, and hopefully your wife will keep to the "rules" of your marriage. I think she will. I have stated to others, that for a truly remorseful and repentant spouse, the odds of cheating goes way down.

 

You know what happened, the next thing is to find why it happened. Keep in mind, she may not really know, or be able to express it, but talking it out, will in the end, be helpful to both of you. OR it was for us. As I have stated, I have "trust" issues with my wife, does not mean I do not love her, or want to make a life with her. It means, that I know what she is capable of in circumstances. I think the same can be said of yours.

 

As always I wish you luck....

[usa1ah]

OP did not mean to offend. Just what I got from reading what was posted.

 

But the to omit the going back to guy 1's house is not a lie. It is not being up front with what was going on. I mean how late was she getting back on this nights? And you never wonder what was going on for her to get back so late.

 

As for this thing getting out. Now that it is over, what is going to keep these's three from talking about it? You said their marriages are screwed. How about their wife spreading the word? You need to let the family know to help keep in check for the future if you choose to stay.

 

Your kids will find out what happened one day. I was four when my mom cheated, I knew by the time I was 7. Neither one of my parents said a word to me about it. My dad divorced my mom after he found out. Was it hard on use kids(4 of us), yes. But I would have looked at my dad as something less if he had stayed.

[BluesPower]

usa1ah,

 

 

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

 

 

But, understand, Lying by omission is still lying. She lied about everything and went on to betray her husband for 2 years in a horrible way

 

 

.

[usa1ah]

usa1ah,

 

 

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

 

 

But, understand, Lying by omission is still lying. She lied about everything and went on to betray her husband for 2 years in a horrible way

 

 

.

 

I understand what you are saying. I would never stay with my wife if she cheats. But all lifestyles have their pitfalls. Do I believe she was cheating yes. But she was also allowed to sleep with other men through out her marriage. Where do you draw the line. OP even said he might have allowed if asked, he just don't know because she never did. But omission is not lying, it is deception. Will never know if she would have come clean if caught by OP.

[JoeSmith357-1]

It is absolute denial to say the past swinging had nothing to do with this. Once sexual taboos are done away with in a relationship, it often leads to problems down the road. If the WW had a latent sexual addiction before OP met her, the swinging just fueled the fire and unleashed the kraken.

 

Opening up a marriage is just not worth the risk in my opinion.

 

He reaped what he sowed in my opinion.

 

In fact my view of this whole situation changed when this came to light...

 

She's still MOST at fault for this, but like I said, he and their lifestyle kind of opened the door to this.

 

I think all of this is a moot point, he's going to stay with her, which boggles my mind.

 

I also don't know what exactly the polygraph was going to accomplish. I think his mind was made up before it. All it is going to do is make her resent him more and respect him less for putting her through this.

Edited August 21, 2016 by JoeSmith357-1

[BluesPower]

Guys, you will never convince me that OP and wife's swinging lifestyle is to blame, in any way, for his wife betrayal.

 

 

I would argue that it in fact makes it worse. If you all feel that way, so be it.

 

 

I think that is sad.