Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[aileD]

And honestly.....if she wants to get banged by six guys at once who cares, sometimes people like that......but...

 

Why didn't she choose YOU to be one of the guys?

 

Just sayin'

[Careless Whispers]

(1) was this all in a group sex setting, or was she also meeting these guys individually for sex???

 

It was only ever after bowling (a Friday night). It was at one guys place so he was always there. Sometimes it was just him, sometimes either one or both of the others joined in. It was never either of the second two alone.

 

 

(2) Was this just her and these three guys, or are there others that were involved??

(3) if there was another woman or women involved, are these people you also know?

 

Apparently there was one other person, a woman, a hooker, once. After an interstate tournament that they won that was their "celebration" apparently.

 

(4) were any of her girlfriends aware of any of this going on??? If so, they have to go.

 

One was. She was not supportive of it. I have read many texts and messages where she threatened to tell me and to end their friendship. My wife cut contact with her at the same time as she did the three guys.

 

Another question is HOW ARE THESE OM still continuing to contact your wife??? Why are they not blocked on all social media or her numbers changed. ??? Why have you not told them you will file a police report if they do not stop contact her? if need be she needs to give up FB or any other social media, and if she works with these guys the job has to go. it bothers me as to why she has not voluntarily figured out how to stop them OM from contacting her.

 

There was a few week delay in between telling them it was over and when they were blocked. That is when the messages kept rolling in, but they are blocked now.

 

(1) look for what is called a 'burner phone".

(2) put a VAR in her car.

(3) put a gPS on her car.

 

I like these suggestions.

 

(4) and lastly, I would tell her that at some point before you make a final decision that she is taking a polygraph test.

 

She offered this to me. It has not been done yet. In fact she has mentioned it more than once. She says she wants this as she wants to prove to me how sorry she is and that she is now telling the truth.

[Careless Whispers]

It looks, from what you have wrote, that she doing what she is supposed to, and that is a good sign.

 

Well this is what I feel but I don't seem to have much support on my side for feeling that way.

 

But don't confuse acknowledgment that she is trying as any sort of forgiveness, I am nowhere near that stage yet.

 

I just feel that if (and I know it's a big if) she is really trying, if she is really remorseful, if she really wants to make a go of us then why not let it play out and see what happens? She doesn't deserve a free pass and what happened certainly requires some sort of punishment but I still don't believe walking away is the correct punishment while there is a glimmer of hope.

 

Your other advice re dating is welcomed. Thank you for that. Some good ideas.

[Careless Whispers]

This.....smh....this is not rational. Three vs one doesn't matter? And the lies matter more than the act? So you'd have been ok, or less hurt, if she had just come to you and said, "Hey CW, I'm going to have weekly orgies with my bowling team. K? K.".

 

No it's not rational is it. I can't deny that. But it is how I fell right now. I'm not holding that up as some type of "look how good I am" moment, I'm damn embarrassed by it , but it is still the way I feel.

[Careless Whispers]

By looking the other way and sweeping this under the rug, you are training your daughters to be whores and to disrespect and disregard their husbands so they can have some thrills with the guys down at the bowling alley. And you are training your sons to be cheated on and disrespected and to not stand up for themselves if it will cause a little disruption and uncertainty in their daily routine.

 

How effective of fatherhood is that???

 

I don't agree with the whole premise of this. I am not teaching my kids any of this and it is insulting to say that. I thought you made some very good points worth pondering earlier in the post but this is just plain wrong.

 

I said earlier that as long as my wife and I remain civil and can parent together I would stay, otherwise I would leave. My kids have no knowledge of what their Mom has done, as far as they know everything is normal, maybe just a little tense. That is a far far cry from teaching them to be cheats/cheated on. It really is insulting that you question my parenting in that way. I am a good parent.

[Careless Whispers]

The perfect solution to your post just above is to divorce her and shack up. You are not being weak and you can parent together. Oldshirt's post above is spot on but if you have to stay with her then that's a way you can keep some self respect. Down deep I think your wife would respect you more too than if you just ate the $hit sandwich she handed you.

 

Thank You. Some food for thought there.

[aliveagain]

One other important item to think about, she never confessed. If the other betrayed wife had not suspected that her husband was cheating and hired a private detective your wife would still be having group sex with her bowling team. You would not be any wiser and who knows how long it would have gone on for. Guys brag, a lot more people know about your wife's secret life than you can imagine. Look at the risk she put you in, they even had sex with a prostitute. Did you know she was into women? Seriously, how can she ever be special to you again?

 

I would bet money that there are video's of their get together's out there. Most people have camera's on their phones. Something will surface sooner or later.

Edited August 15, 2016 by aliveagain

[Mr Blunt]

By Careless Whispers

So here I sit lonely, in front of a computer screen. Asking strangers what would they do?

 

Well I told you what I did so what do you think about my suggestion? My response is reprinted below:

 

I would make my life and my children’s welfare the absolute number one priority. I would not allow my wife’s welfare to interfere in any way with my rebuilding plan. This is not a revenge thing it is a reality thing. You cannot build up yourself, your children, and your wife at the same time. So you have to eliminate one and that one would be your wife.

 

 

CW, you ask us a question and then you dodge my response. If you do not like my response then just say so. When you ignore a response to your question it makes me think that you cannot face some realities.

 

 

 

 

 

You said that you want to R. That is fine but a post-nup will protect you for your future and you can still have both parents in the same house for the benefit of your children. If you do not get a post-nup to protect yourself then you are weaker than I thought so what are you going to do?

 

You do not want to D and you want to have you and your wife raise your children but you do not want to give her a pass. A post-nup will help in all those areas and as a bonus you will have some protection in the future in the event that your wife wants attention and sex from another man. I give you a partial solution and ask you a question (see reprint below) and you do not answer. Why are you dodging posts that you ask for?

[Miss Clavel]

I think I just need people to slap me and tell me to wake up. I am a mess, my heart and head are pulling me different ways. I can’t sleep, I don’t want to eat, I just want my life back.

.

 

some time ago, i felt exactly the way you do right now. and i kinda hate you for taking me back there. pain coming in waves.

 

 

that's your denial.

 

you're going to have to face that it's over. everything you knew for decades, is ****. caput. not gonna happen.

 

you are going to need help doing this. call a doctor, see a lawyer and visit an STD clinic. get busy.

 

it's gotta be done.

[Miss Clavel]

call a doctor, see a lawyer and visit an STD clinic. get busy.

 

 

all those things should be done whether you one of you moves out, one of you moves to the sofa, you work it out, stay together or you divorce.

 

good luck.

[Wade Lamare]

Well this is what I feel but I don't seem to have much support on my side for feeling that way.

 

But don't confuse acknowledgment that she is trying as any sort of forgiveness, I am nowhere near that stage yet.

 

I just feel that if (and I know it's a big if) she is really trying, if she is really remorseful, if she really wants to make a go of us then why not let it play out and see what happens? She doesn't deserve a free pass and what happened certainly requires some sort of punishment but I still don't believe walking away is the correct punishment while there is a glimmer of hope.

 

Your other advice re dating is welcomed. Thank you for that. Some good ideas.

 

Whatever you do should have nothing to do with punishment. What is she, a naughty kid?

 

Perhaps you should send her to bed early, take away her X-Box?

 

Yes, there will be consequences for her actions but they should in no way be regarded as 'punishment'.

 

And, in my opinion, the greatest 'punishment' (aka the most regret she will feel) will be for you to walk away from her with complete and utter indifference and find yourself a new, faithful Mrs Whispers.

[GoldenR]

The fact that she was with 3 guys (and on one occasion a female was included) many times, I think that in itself shows that one guy will never be enough for her. Had she done it just once, that'd be a different story.

 

You owe her nothing: no effort to R, no sympathy bc she's crying and feels bad, no consideration for the future. And how much was she thinking of you and your family when this was going on? I'll tell you how much....zero. But now, all of a sudden, bc she got busted, she loves you and is sorry? No...she is not a good person. R will just lead to more tears

Edited August 15, 2016 by GoldenR

[BluesPower]

Listen, There are a lot of suggestions here and so, so many are good.

 

I want you to understand what may happen in the future from my story and suggestions. I woke up 3 months ago and realized (I'm 52) that I had sacrificed my entire life for my wife who did not love me or respect me at all for the most part.

 

As bad as the things she did to me were it is NOTHING, compared to what your wife has done to you. Dude, I mean nothing. I raised my kids like you want to they turned out great, but I realize that I could have done this easier without my wife, bottom line. Not to mention if I found another partner that was loving, supporting and helpful as a wife.

 

The hatred that I feel toward myself for letting things go on the way that I did for 25 years is a really tough thing to bear, and really I did it for the right reasons. But some of the reasons were not right, the main one being that I was scared of the unknown. Scared about custody and everything that you have discussed. Frankly, I was a coward, and for me that is really hard to say.

 

Now, I also want to should you some assumptions that you are making that may or may not be true.

 

1) What she did was just sex or an affair, big deal. - NO, CW it was not JUST an affair or sex. Your wife decided to Join or Re-join the swinging LIFESTYLE without any regard to you her faithful husband, her children, or her marriage.

 

If you guys choose this together then that is great, but YOU DID NOT CHOOSE THIS. YOU WERE JUST THE STUPID HUSBAND AT HOME WITH THE KIDS, while she was living the high life with all the other men and women that she was having sex with.

 

This type of disrespect is REALLY HARD for any man with a set of balls to come back from. It may be impossible.

 

2) She loves me and wants to work it out. - CW, I am sorry to say this, but I don't think that she loves you, as hard a that is to hear. I can tell you this, SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR YOU IN ANY WAY, NONE. This is a fact no matter what she says, I promise you. I have live some of this and trust me I know.

 

She is sorry that she got caught and had to give up the porno sex and that is probably it.

 

3) I am dealing with it. - CW, this is so new, you really have no idea how you are going to deal with it. I realize that you "Think" that you know everything, but you don't and you probably never will.

 

Over time you will understand that you were and are being naïve about how you feel. I have been there, and you just cannot realize the pain that will hit you for no apparent reason. You won't, can't understand why it is happening, but the pain will be soul crushing and all you can do is take it. Sometimes it hurts so bad that you want to lay in the fetal position and cry.

 

4) She won't do it again, she is done. - CW, you just cannot know this now or ever really. She could slip, she may not want to in a way, but she will want to in a way as well. You can do all the surveillance in the world and if she want to continue cheating she will.

 

5) We are in counseling and working on it. - While this is great, Your wife could have, literally, the best counselor in that world and it will take years for her to unravel her issue, IF EVER. She may be so damaged that she can never get herself straight. For you, through no fault of your own, you really may never be right again. You probably don't believe this now and maybe, I hope, it is not true, but who would blame you if you could not over come your wife stunning betrayal?

 

6) Maybe over time I can have a normal sex life with her. - Please don't kid yourself about this! I hope so badly that you are able to overcome this, but do you really think for a second that you and you wife can have any type of good, normal, or healthy sex life after what she had done. Maybe you can, I really hope you can, but I really don't think so.

 

7) I cannot get custody of my children. - You have no idea if this is true, just none. In a trial, with testimony about what she has done, in front of a jury you have absolutely no idea what could happen, you stand a really good chance of betting FULL custody

 

Further, if your wife is really remorseful, she should GIVE YOU, custody. If she wanted to prove her love for you and the children, she should do this: Grant you full custody in a no fault divorce, sigh or gift all assets to you without condition. Then you guys could live together, and raise the kids and the next time that she cheats, you can kick her to the curb.

 

BUT SHE WILL MOST LIKELY NOT DO THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT LOVE OR RESPECT YOU AS A HUSBAND, FATHER, OR LOVER.

 

8) I can handle it. - Poppy cock. Just pure BS. I would have gone to my grave thinking that I was one of the emotionally strongest men in the world, I can handle anything. What a fool both of us are!!!

 

CW, I think you are so strong already by not ending up in the loony bin right now about this.

 

Please take your time, ask your wife if she will sigh all custody and assets over to you. If she does, maybe she really is sorry, and maybe she does love and respect you. And maybe she does not, we will see.

 

Please do not waste your life like I did. Everyone deservers to be happy.

 

Good luck to you...

[Silveron]

If you google the seven stages of grief, this will benefit you. Though it's for someone who lost a spouse, this fits your situation as well. It will give you an idea of what emotions you will be going through.

 

 

That said, there is not going to be 'one moment' of clarity that will give you the answer you seek. Though time will eventually unravel the barn of yarn that is your emotions in this. You are right in feeling the way you do right now. What she did was total betrayal and questions the foundation of the relationship/trust. You can't build a house on a cracked foundation.

 

 

No one here should 'tell' you what you should or shouldn't do in terms of staying with her. A good counselor won't do that, however most of the people on here aren't counselors.

 

 

IMO what I believe you should do is first to take care of yourself and the children. Realize that she didn't do this to hurt you or because you were inadequate in anyway. Don't let this affect your own self-worth. Doing so, will put you into a deep depression. This is her doing, her emotional immaturity, her selfishness, her disrespect for the marriage vows.

 

 

With that however, I know you want her to feel the same pain you are going through but trying to punish her to the point that she fears of doing something remotely of that again, won't work. All it will do is change you. You earn respect through confidence, not fear and punishment. That said, do you even want her to try and respect you again? Is there enough there for you to want to recreate that bond again? If you're not sure, that's ok. Like I said the barn of yarn will unravel itself to a point that you will make a decision. In the mean time, set up short term goals for yourself so that your mind isn't on this 24/7. If it consumes you, it'll put you into a depression. Keep with counseling and take things at your own pace, even if it's hour by hour, if day to day is too much right now.

[road]

People posting here fail to see.

 

 

See that his WW is NOW doing the right things to recover the marriage.

 

 

That no matter what a WW did during her affair it can always be topped - could of been worse.

 

 

That this BH wants an attempt at recovery. Who knows if this attempt will be successful of fail. Though it is what he wants and needs.

 

 

That the OP is not asking anyone to take his path but to help him walk it.

 

 

 

 

I will say this as future warning to others that did not see this affair coming.

 

 

I have seen to many wives join recreational activities with other men and not include their husband.

 

 

This time the wife is spending with these men is taking away the time that she and her husband need to maintain their relationship bonds.

 

 

This quality time provides the men the opportunity to meet the wife's needs and bound with the wife. Till the line is crossed then those men are now the OM and she is a WW.

 

 

Wife wants to bowl all woman's league. Mixed league with her husband. Never without the husband in the with men. That is trying to live the single life while being married.

 

 

 

 

In short another example of why married people do not need opposite sex friends.

[BluesPower]

I understand that OP wants to keep his family together. As far as my post goes, I just want him to know that, in the future he may really regret it.

 

As far as how bad this one is though??? I suppose that it could be worse, but she would really, really have to work hard to make it worse than it already is. I am not being prudish here, Dude this collection of facts it just horrible for a host of reasons.

 

I think that OP is still to close to D-Day to really understand how he feels or how her will feel. But, I could be wrong.

 

I am one of the men that sacrificed my life and happiness for a WW and my family. Everyone tells you how, you are so honorable, so strong, such a good man. Well that is just BS pure and simple. I could have done everything I did without my wife, because that is what I did for the most part. She was just living in the house but now really there.

 

But I get that we don't need to hammer OP. And, OP just take your time and do your best.

[BetrayedH]

I think you're going to try to reconcile, not matter what anyone here says. My wife did some similar heinous sh*t and I also tried to reconcile. There's a very powerful combination of fears at play: fear of people knowing, fear of being alone, fear of losing your nuclear family, fear of losing your kids...

 

It creates a perfect storm where you try to figure out if you can choke this thing down.

 

Take note that the first stage of grief is denial, and the last is acceptance. And it's not denial that the event(s) took place; it's denial of the "impact" of what has just happened to you. That's evidenced by your statement that "it's not so much the sex" that's getting to you. Your mind has decided to put that issue on the back burner because you simply can't process this much hurt all at once. And if you did, you know you would just run. Right now you're too afraid of the consequences of running. That seems like a guaranteed loss, right? So you find rationalizations to stay.

 

What happened with me is that my wife also played the remorse card pretty heavily. Most of them do and they also have fears of losing their family, etc.. And so I tried to choke it down. Eventually I came to accept that her remorse was real and I began to feel safe that my marriage wasn't automatically going to end. That's when the ANGER kicked in. It's like a switch was flipped that I no longer had to be afraid to upset everything and I suddenly realized, "Hey, you know, I really don't appreciate that this has happened. In fact, I'm pretty pissed that I'm going to be dealing with these mental images of you with three guys..."

I'm here to tell you that that phase can be very unexpected and very damaging, to you. I started to become someone I wasn't. And it was because I was asking myself to accept something to no one should have to accept.

 

I think you're probably just going to have to experience it for yourself. But one thing I would add is that there is life after a divorce. While many courts do not care about infidelity, there is also an increasing trend towards equal custody rights for men. I ended up with 50/50 custody of my kids. They spend 3-4 days with her and then 3-4 days with me. We have agreements about vacations, holidays, etc.. We live about 25-30 minutes apart. I keep in touch with the kids via facetime or text when they're on her days. We sometimes celebrate things on something other than the actual day (birthday party a few days in advance, etc) but for the most part, it's a very normal life and I'm a very involved Dad. Beyond that, the kids are fine and well-adjusted.

 

The benefit for me (and perhaps all of us) is that I didn't have to remain in that torturous situation. I moved on and started, what I call, my second life. And it's not bad. It can be done, even with kids.

 

My view is that at the moment you're standing in the rubble of the nuke that your wife dropped on the marriage. And you feel like your choices are to either leave your wife and kids and life that you've built in the huge mess or to stay and start piecing things back together. Your instinct (or fears) have driven you to stay and try. And frankly, I get it 'cause I've been there. But I think you're in denial about how big this pile of rubble is and how impossible this task might be and how continuing to try is going to alter who you are. Feeling like you have no choice but to stay, you may even entertain crazy options, like having your own affair to help balance the scales and reduce your anger. It's the path to crazy town, my friend. Be careful how much you take on, feeling like it is the noble thing to do and thinking the only other choice is to lose everything.

 

My point here is that you do have other reasonable alternatives. Meet with an attorney and fully investigate them. Have an honest but non-threatening discussion with your wife about an amiable divorce that prioritizes the kids having routine access to both parents. You may find it's best for you, your wife, and your kids for them to be raised in two separate but happy households rather than one unhappy one.

Edited August 15, 2016 by BetrayedH

[Careless Whispers]

CW, you ask us a question and then you dodge my response. If you do not like my response then just say so. When you ignore a response to your question it makes me think that you cannot face some realities.

 

 

There's no need to be so aggressive mate. I have not dodged or ignored your responses at all, I have listened and taken on board what you have written.

 

This is not a matter of right and wrong, I may agree with you today but tomorrow think your suggestions are absurd.

 

I did not reply to your posts but that does not mean I have not listened. I don't understand your need for me to agree with (or disagree with) you.

 

This is not a contest about right and wrong, it is a process with no defined path. Your comments are valid. I have already stated I am putting my kids first, it may not be the same way you would want me to put the kids first, but that doesn't mean that I am wrong and you need to demand an answer. I didn't comment on the post-nup because I don't know enough about them. When/If I get to a stage where I might need one then I will look into it.

 

I do thank you for taking the time to respond. But at the same time I think the aggressive nature of demanding a response was unwarranted.

[Careless Whispers]

Please do not waste your life like I did. Everyone deservers to be happy.

 

Good luck to you...

 

Thank You for sharing that BluesPower

[Careless Whispers]

My point here is that you do have other reasonable alternatives. Meet with an attorney and fully investigate them. Have an honest but non-threatening discussion with your wife about an amiable divorce that prioritizes the kids having routine access to both parents. You may find it's best for you, your wife, and your kids for them to be raised in two separate but happy households rather than one unhappy one.

 

Thanks for sharing BetrayedH.

[BluesPower]

CW, the people her are worried for you and we get invested. Please forgive us. So many of us have been through some horrible things and even for use you story is one of the worst.

 

 

Just take care of you and let us know how you are doing.

[understand50]

Careless Whispers,

 

Again, this is your life, we all are just whispers on the internet. If you believe in redemption, then your wife can have true remorse, and you can reconcile. What she has done is really bad compared to the wife that slips and has a One Night Stand (ONS), then tells her husband about it. What happened does not mean that you cannot forgive her, and only you can decide if you can do that. Many here counsel divorce, and many would. It is up to you.

 

If you are working towards reconciliation, and that is your decision, and even if you divorce, you will need to come to some sort of relationship for the kids if nothing else. Some things need to be in place.

 

1) She needs to tell you everything, and answer all you questions to the best of her ability. Looks like you have the basic facts, but at some time you will have other questions. One I would have, is how did this start? When and how did you write me and the family off and start?

 

2) She needs true remorse. This is hard, as you cannot get inside her head and really know. All you can go on is her actions, going forward. Also, you may have to come to terms that while she is sorry she got caught, sorry this happened, she will treasure the experience in of it self. You will never know for sure. I would state that this is the same for everyone.

 

3) No contact with the AP's

 

4) MC and IC. This will help if you can afford it. If you cannot, look a setting aside a time to talk, and try and work things out. Do not expect this to be a fast thing, but if you work at it, it will get better over time.

 

5) One for you. You are going to get real angry. Learn to channel your anger, so it become a positive, and not a destroyer. Myself as an example, I am angry after all these years about my then G/F ONS, I am also angry about her over spending and lying about our finances, but I do not let my anger dominate our relationship. I acknowledge that I am angry about what happened, and always will be, but I do not drag it out for new issues in the marriage. So, in my opinion, you must be able to do this, keep your anger checked, and do not drag it out when other things happen in you marriage. IE, do not use this against her, unless it is cheating, when something else comes along. Her cheating cannot be a automatic "I win the argument card"

 

You have a hard road ahead, she has a harder one. If you love her enough to forgive her, then you can make it work. You will never forget what she did, but you can see by her actions, she is making amends.

 

I wish you luck.....

[TrustedthenBusted]

souinds like another example of that swinging lifestyle gone awry.

 

Seems eventually the party always continues, except the spouse doesn't get the invite.

 

Bet this isn't the first time.

[JoeSmith357-1]

The worst part about this, is if he lives in a "no-fault" divorce state, he will be financially bankrupted by all the alimony, child support, etc he will owe her for doing nothing wrong...

 

This sort of thing is why people don't get married anymore

[Wade Lamare]

Whispers, you mention that sexual activity only occurred when guy 1 was around. Guy 2, guy 3 and the prostitute only took part when guy 1 was there, correct?

If so it sounds like guy 1 was the driving force behind all of this.

 

I may be adding 2+2 and getting 5 but is it possible that she has a kind of dom/sub thing going on with guy1?

 

Has she ever given any inkling of this in the past?