Should I wait for the ring... or leave??

[SpringAngel83]

A couple of things that were not touched on.

 

How is the relationship in general? I mean do you go out, do fun stuff, are you both happy?

 

Does he seem happy in general? I mean, he said he is "empty inside" - that kind of talk is often associated with depression.

 

Regarding his fear of divorce, is this a financial thing (e.g. have you considered a prenup?) Seems unlikely, given he has already bought a house with you though...

 

Overall the relationship is great. We definitely go out and have fun together. We just went on vacation to Mexico.

 

He seems happy most of the time. I do know he battles with depression sometimes.

 

Financially we're ok. We both have good jobs. Buying the home has made things a little tighter than they used to be which I think is a source of stress for us. We're adjusting though. Besides the house we don't have much to add to a prenup.

[SpringAngel83]

If I understand this well, you moved in together after 6 months dating and then it started 'not going anywhere' ?

 

When exactly did you start hitting a wall with him concerning marriage & kids? 6 months in? or just after you bought a house together?

 

When you say you just bought a house what do you mean? a year? a month?

 

If it was going nowhere right after the honeymoon phase why did you buy a house together?

 

I moved in with him after 6 months of dating. We lived in his apartment. Then we rented a house when his lease was up and lived there for a year and a half.

 

I brought up saving money for a house about a year into the rental and he got really weird. (And I truly meant just saving some money together. Down payments aren't cheap.) He said talking about money stresses him out. That was my first red flag. He said he wasn't ready yet but he loves me and I waited.

 

About a year later is when he bought Max our puppy. He's 8 months old now so that was about 2.5 years into our relationship. Then a couple months later he said he's ready to look at houses. We bought end of March so we've been here 4 months.

 

I truly believed he would propose in Mexico or on our 3rd anniversary but he didn't. I was still happy because I felt like we were moving forward. We had a good night by the fire when I told him is like to start having kids within the next year and asked if he was on-board with that and he said yes. Everything was great.

 

Then someone asked when we were going to get married and he got super defensive and shut down and now won't talk to me about anything. He turned into this different person who is acting like "I gave you what you wanted now leave me alone!" But the puppy and house is not what I wanted. I wanted him. And marriage and kids. And now I feel like he doesn't want that. But maybe he just needs more time. I know buying a home is a big step. Maybe he just needs time to adjust?

[Shining One]

I brought up saving money for a house about a year into the rental and he got really weird. (And I truly meant just saving some money together. Down payments aren't cheap.) He said talking about money stresses him out. That was my first red flag. He said he wasn't ready yet but he loves me and I waited.

 

About a year later is when he bought Max our puppy. He's 8 months old now so that was about 2.5 years into our relationship. Then a couple months later he said he's ready to look at houses. We bought end of March so we've been here 4 months.

 

I truly believed he would propose in Mexico or on our 3rd anniversary but he didn't. I was still happy because I felt like we were moving forward. We had a good night by the fire when I told him is like to start having kids within the next year and asked if he was on-board with that and he said yes. Everything was great.

 

Then someone asked when we were going to get married and he got super defensive and shut down and now won't talk to me about anything. He turned into this different person who is acting like "I gave you what you wanted now leave me alone!" But the puppy and house is not what I wanted. I wanted him. And marriage and kids. And now I feel like he doesn't want that. But maybe he just needs more time. I know buying a home is a big step. Maybe he just needs time to adjust?

I've read through most of the thread and I get the feeling that he moves at much slower pace than you. You brought up the topic of saving for a house, but he wasn't ready yet. Eventually, he warmed up to it (over a year after you introduced the idea) and it happened. It's quite possible he will be ready to get married and have kids with you someday, but no one (including him) can say when that is. You have to determine what the right course of action is for you. Waiting is a gamble. Leaving is a gamble. I don't envy your position. It might be a good idea to spend some time apart so you can gather your thoughts and determine what's most important to you.

[Gaeta]

I moved in with him after 6 months of dating. We lived in his apartment. Then we rented a house when his lease was up and lived there for a year and a half.

 

I brought up saving money for a house about a year into the rental and he got really weird. (And I truly meant just saving some money together. Down payments aren't cheap.) He said talking about money stresses him out. That was my first red flag. He said he wasn't ready yet but he loves me and I waited.

 

About a year later is when he bought Max our puppy. He's 8 months old now so that was about 2.5 years into our relationship. Then a couple months later he said he's ready to look at houses. We bought end of March so we've been here 4 months.

 

I truly believed he would propose in Mexico or on our 3rd anniversary but he didn't. I was still happy because I felt like we were moving forward. We had a good night by the fire when I told him is like to start having kids within the next year and asked if he was on-board with that and he said yes. Everything was great.

 

Then someone asked when we were going to get married and he got super defensive and shut down and now won't talk to me about anything. He turned into this different person who is acting like "I gave you what you wanted now leave me alone!" But the puppy and house is not what I wanted. I wanted him. And marriage and kids. And now I feel like he doesn't want that. But maybe he just needs more time. I know buying a home is a big step. Maybe he just needs time to adjust?

 

What was the purpose to move in this quickly? Was it first for financial reasons? I am asking because this is a recurring problem with couples who first move in for convenience instead of moving in for being a committed couple.

 

I suspect he got weird when you mentioned saving for a house because you 2 were in this relationship for different reasons. The room-mate situation was suiting him and he didn't think this wold escalate to anything else. You were the Miss-Right-Now. Eventually he bought a house with you but I think it was more in an investment purpose for him. No one wants to pay rent forever.

 

Finally what is alarming me the most is his shutting down emotionally and physically. This is far from the character you should make children with. Imagine down the road you have 2 little ones in diapers and he's pulling this sh$t on you. What he is doing is punishing you for wanting to address an important matter between you.

 

Remember saving money stresses him out. This man is not father material. He won't be able to handle having children, children cost A LOT of money and are a lot of responsibilities. Your life changes forever the day they come into your life so IF saving some money stresses you out you are not cut out for fatherhood !

[JADIE]

Then someone asked when we were going to get married and he got super defensive and shut down and now won't talk to me about anything. He turned into this different person who is acting like "I gave you what you wanted now leave me alone!" But the puppy and house is not what I wanted. I wanted him. And marriage and kids. And now I feel like he doesn't want that. But maybe he just needs more time. I know buying a home is a big step. Maybe he just needs time to adjust?

 

At first, I was totally on board w OP that the BF is being a jerk etc etc ....but seeing the timeline spelled out here in detail, I can see where he's coming from. I'm seeing a lot of big life changes in a short amount of time, particularly the home purchase, and yes, even as a woman, I can see where he'd shut down and perceive OP's pressing the marriage/kids issue as just.too.much. at this time. I think she's correct that he does indeed just need more time to adjust. They haven't even been in the house 6 months yet! They've only had the dog for 8 mos. They just went on a vacation in Mexico. Is the BF a "thinker" vs "talker"? I'm introverted myself and frankly, as fun and exciting as all those things are...I would be stressed out at the short space of time in which they have occurred. To return home from vacation and hear, "So...let's start talking marriage & family..." might just push me over the edge.

 

I'm in a 6 yr relationship where we both have said we want marriage eventually, and I seem to want it sooner than he does...so I completely understand OP's position. However, we're both approaching retirement, not childbearing, so I'm not facing that kind of time restraint, so certainly understand feeling a little panicky about the OPs BF shutting down. Definitely feel counselling is in order to get some effective communication strategies in place! Sit tight OP, if BF will agree to counselling, this situation looks very salvageable...and that's coming from a true pessimist!

[ses]

Perhaps he does move at a slower pace but she should not have to put off motherhood for him to make a decision. A high-risk pregnancy starts in the mid-30's with an increased risk for chromosomal diseases. She may be lucky and conceive easily but there's no telling as she hasn't actively tried. From what I've read, a lot of women expect conception to be easy once they're committed to trying but it's not a guarantee. Her boyfriend might change his mind and eventually propose but I don't think she should wait that much longer for biological children, unless IVF, adoption, and surrogacy are also available as an option.

[BaileyB]

I haven't read the whole thread, just wanted to share a personal experience.

 

I have a dear friend who was with a guy for 5 years. They didn't live together, but she talked to him about marriage and kids for 5 years and it was a major source of conflict. She would not bring it up for long periods, because he would shut down and get upset. When they talked about it, he would tell her that he loved her, but he just wasn't ready. Finally, she decided she couldn't wait around forever, and she ended it with him... She was about 30 at this time.

 

She met someone else, and she now has the husband and kids.

 

He has met someone else and they bought the house/live together... But they are not married and they don't have kids.

 

It is a lot of life changes, and perhaps he needs a little more time. But , if someone tells you they don't want to get married or have kids, believe them. I really don't think you can convince someone to do something they really don't want to do... And if you do, it's probably not a good thing in the long run.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Toodaloo]

Reading this and I am sorry to say that you are "the girl he dates before the girl he marries".

 

You need to sort out somewhere else to live, pack your things and leave. Give yourself a chance to meet someone who will fully commit to you. Sort out the financial side and get a clean split.

 

This guy resists fully committing all the way through. Its not changed, its not going to change. So quit wasting time. Leave.

[elaine567]

Reading this and I am sorry to say that you are "the girl he dates before the girl he marries".

 

 

I know what you are saying and it is often true too, but here he is 35 and "petrified" of divorce, he may never actually get around to marrying anyone.

[SpringAngel83]

At first, I was totally on board w OP that the BF is being a jerk etc etc ....but seeing the timeline spelled out here in detail, I can see where he's coming from. I'm seeing a lot of big life changes in a short amount of time, particularly the home purchase, and yes, even as a woman, I can see where he'd shut down and perceive OP's pressing the marriage/kids issue as just.too.much. at this time. I think she's correct that he does indeed just need more time to adjust. They haven't even been in the house 6 months yet! They've only had the dog for 8 mos. They just went on a vacation in Mexico. Is the BF a "thinker" vs "talker"? I'm introverted myself and frankly, as fun and exciting as all those things are...I would be stressed out at the short space of time in which they have occurred. To return home from vacation and hear, "So...let's start talking marriage & family..." might just push me over the edge.

 

I'm in a 6 yr relationship where we both have said we want marriage eventually, and I seem to want it sooner than he does...so I completely understand OP's position. However, we're both approaching retirement, not childbearing, so I'm not facing that kind of time restraint, so certainly understand feeling a little panicky about the OPs BF shutting down. Definitely feel counselling is in order to get some effective communication strategies in place! Sit tight OP, if BF will agree to counselling, this situation looks very salvageable...and that's coming from a true pessimist!

 

This is what I'm hoping for... that he's all in just overwhelmed right now. That year I waited in between him shutting down the idea of saving for a home and buying a puppy was really hard for me. I wanted to give him his time and didn't want to force him into anything. But I don't think I can do that again. I don't have another year to wait around. I want to give him space but it's killing me to be sitting on the sideline of my own life! Plus I'm starting to overthink everything and it's driving me crazy!

[Toodaloo]

I know what you are saying and it is often true too, but here he is 35 and "petrified" of divorce, he may never actually get around to marrying anyone.

 

How about he is petrified of divorce because in his heart he knows he doesn't love her...

 

Regardless either way OP is not going to get that ring on her finger or those children if she stays with him and she will wind up wasting her years away.

 

Same result.

[SpringAngel83]

Reading this and I am sorry to say that you are "the girl he dates before the girl he marries".

 

And this is what I'm afraid of.

[BlueIris]

The thing is, what part of it petrifies him, or anyone?

 

The financial enmeshment? That’s already done. They have a house together.

 

Being broken up with? Marriage is no different from living together in that respect, and comingling assets and obligations (well, except for separate debt), rejection, starting over, pain.

 

Having children? That’s a lifetime commitment. That’s the biggest here but not divorce-related.

 

ETA: Restriction on freedom and lifetime commitment reinforced by social norms? could be that. Seems to be that. He's not sure and says he's frightened.

[Toodaloo]

Talking to a friend about this and these are her words;

 

The exact same thing happened to me. I got the ring after three years alright, but not without a huge amount of teary conversations leading up to it. And I got the puppy, too. We all know how that shook out, and he went on to marry the next girl in less than a year.

 

Now, here I am at 37. Having dated nearly what felt like every single weirdo in my area before I finally met my dude. She needs to cut bait NOW. When a man really wants to marry you, he does not fight you on it!

 

Run OP, just run.

[Redhead14]

This is what I'm hoping for... that he's all in just overwhelmed right now. That year I waited in between him shutting down the idea of saving for a home and buying a puppy was really hard for me. I wanted to give him his time and didn't want to force him into anything. But I don't think I can do that again. I don't have another year to wait around. I want to give him space but it's killing me to be sitting on the sideline of my own life! Plus I'm starting to overthink everything and it's driving me crazy!

 

I think you should just set a time limit for yourself (in your head). Give it say, 6 months, to give him time to get his head around home ownership, etc, if that's what may be the trouble, and then sit down with him and talk about goals for your future. Just make a statement about what you want for yourself in 3 years, 4 years, whatever, and then let him talk.

 

You said that in the beginning of the relationship he did say he wanted marriage and kids. It may be he just changed his mind. Maybe he's just plain happy with the way things are between you two and doesn't see a need for anything else anymore.

 

I don't like the shutting down thing, that's not cool. It's not something I'd want to see carried over into a marriage and especially one that includes children. Does he shut down about other subjects too?

[Toodaloo]

The thing is, what part of it petrifies him, or anyone?

 

The financial enmeshment? That’s already done. They have a house together.

 

Being broken up with? Marriage is no different from living together in that respect, and comingling assets and obligations (well, except for separate debt), rejection, starting over, pain.

 

Having children? That’s a lifetime commitment. That’s the biggest here but not divorce-related.

 

ETA: Restriction on freedom and lifetime commitment reinforced by social norms? could be that. Seems to be that. He's not sure and says he's frightened.

 

Getting married and having kids is far messier to dissolve than selling a house.

 

This guy thinks if he marries OP he will then meet the love of his life and be forever stuck with OP and not be able to get together with the woman of his dreams...

 

THAT is why men don't want to marry. They don't mind making purchases that can be sold because those are just "things". Even the dog depending on the breed has a time limit on it.

 

But some men (quite rightly) take marriage/ children as a life long commitment and simply WILL NOT do it unless they have met a woman they believe they will spend the rest of their lives with.

 

This guy is saying all this because he does not believe he will spend the rest of his life with OP. So she is better off getting out. It will take around a year for her to sort out finances and emotions to get herself back into a fit dating state then around 1-2 years after that to test the waters and find someone that is if she pulls her finger out and cuts the cord and is also highly pragmatic and sensible about it.

[ExpatInItaly]

This is what I'm hoping for... that he's all in just overwhelmed right now. That year I waited in between him shutting down the idea of saving for a home and buying a puppy was really hard for me. I wanted to give him his time and didn't want to force him into anything. But I don't think I can do that again. I don't have another year to wait around. I want to give him space but it's killing me to be sitting on the sideline of my own life! Plus I'm starting to overthink everything and it's driving me crazy!

 

I was in your shoes once, OP. I was almost exactly your age, too.

 

If you want marriage and kids soon, you now know it's not going to happen. He's been clear that he's not ready and he can't give you a timeline of when he will be ready. It's hard, I know. I too felt I was waiting around a lot, until I admitted to myself after nearly 7.5 years, a home, a car, a pet...that it wasn't going to happen for us. And I am grateful now that we went our separate ways. I no longer feel beholden to someone else's timeline, and I am much happier to be with someone who is sure about me.

 

As the cliche goes, my ex did in fact marry the next woman he dated, and they have a baby as well, all within three years of our break-up. And you know what? I am glad it's not me. Even I had to admit we weren't the best match anymore!

 

It's on you to decide if you want to wait. How long are you prepared to do so?

Edited July 25, 2016 by ExpatInItaly

[Kamille]

Can't imagine living that kind of limbo.

 

I don't know what the right decision for you is. But I have two stories to share on the topic.

 

Friend 1:

 

She got the ring after three years of mentioning marriage frequently, but not without a huge amount of teary conversations leading up to it. And they got the puppy, too. They were together for four years, engaged for one, lived together for three, had their lives merged.

 

Then three months before the wedding it was done. He had met his "one". He moved on seamlessly. Now he's married to someone else and they have two kids.

 

My friend is now over 35 and honestly has no time to waste if she wants to even think about trying to have kids. She'll tell you women don't have the luxury to wait and see. You shouldn't have to fight someone to want to marry you. She's even said that she thinks it's cruel to make women wait like that. (Fortunately, she met someone great recently so I'm hoping for happy news in the future )

 

Friend 2:

 

This one is really a tale about being careful what you wish for. She fell in love with a man. Had to take the lead on every front: getting the house, getting the dog, getting the kids, getting married. They did get married and they did have children. He cheated on her while she was pregnant with the second. And was always an absent parent with the first. They went through an ugly divorce and he still causes her grief over custody. (He bails on the kids at the last minute, expects my friend to accommodate his schedule, etc). This friend is the first to tell you not to push someone into marriage.

 

 

 

So it's a tough one, but I wouldn't want to be married with someone who isn't 100% into marrying me. Marriage is hard, kids are hard. You want to be with the person who wants to jump in with you.

[Toodaloo]

She's even said that she thinks it's cruel to make women wait like that.

 

I agree.

 

I have had it happen to me as well... By the end of that relationship I was a complete mess... Oh the excuses. Its just a piece of paper, I don't agree with marriage, I am frightened of divorce...

 

Truth is that he just didn't love me in any way shape or form let alone enough to marry me...

 

Do not waste time.

[elaine567]

This guy thinks if he marries OP he will then meet the love of his life and be forever stuck with OP and not be able to get together with the woman of his dreams...

 

 

I agree, he still thinks he can do better.

 

My theories for why many seem to marry the next girl pretty quick.

A) She is the girl of his dreams or fairly close as he has a better idea what he wants as a long term partner, so went out looking specifically for it.

or

B) He has a more realistic idea of his own current value in the dating world and so needs to grab and lock down whatever he can get ASAP.

[katiegrl]

What would be more concerning for me than him not wanting marriage, is him telling me he feels "dead inside."

 

I would have explored that with him... why does he feel dead inside, what's going on there?

 

A man can go through the motions of having a RL, on the surface everything appears to be peachy.... when the reality is something entirely different.

 

SpringAngel, what was your response when he told you this?

[xxoo]

You are a placeholder. You fill "partner" role until he meets the woman he wants to marry. He'll marry her quick, I bet.

 

The one thing you have going for you is the house. It's not like you can just walk away; there are legal ties to untie. It's a hassle, yes, but you'll have your clarity by the time that is sold. Either he has a "come to Jesus" moment and realizes that he really wants you, or the house gets sold and everyone moves on. Hard lesson learned.

[AMJ]

I'm appalled by some of the advice in this thread. (I'm also appalled by the accusation that the female posters here are "scorned women", an incredibly sexist and demeaning assertion.

What is sexist is the notion that a woman speaking up about her needs for marriage three years into a relationship is "nagging". Nagging is what someone does when they want you to take out the garbage. To want to talk to your boyfriend about your feelings is not "nagging".

 

The bad advice here is suggesting you essentially suck it up, stop talking, and twist yourself into knots trying to prove you deserve to be married. This is insanity.

 

It's such typical sexist advice, right? That to get what she wants in the relationship she needs to change herself somehow to be better. Instead of- find a man who loves you, wants to marry you exactly the way you are, for the person you are now.

 

The women here are also asking her to make a huge gamble. By leaving her current BF, who she admits is a great guy and she is in love with him, just to find someone else to marry, hoping that she will find another great guy she loves? I think my option is less of a gamble, actually.

 

This is the one point I'll agree with. Sure, it's a gamble for her to leave him. OP you may not find a man you love this much, are this attracted to, or compatible with. You may not find another man who wants to marry you (highly unlikely but that is possible). The question is, whether waiting around for this man to give you what you want, knowing that it's not what he wants, is a better option. Or if you're willing to give up the things you want to stay with him, knowing that you'll always have some pain and resentment from that sacrifice.

 

One of my friends was in a relationship for ten years before he proposed. They started dating when she was 30, he never wanted marriage or kids. She was okay with that- or so she said. Something changed when they turned 40. I guess he realized that she really loved him, they're getting old, why not just get married. So he proposed on Thanksgiving and they decided to get married in a really cheesy wedding chapel two days later. Our whole office was so excited for her that we threw her a wedding reception and no one worked that day, we all joined them at the chapel. All along she acted like she didn't care about being married, but I've never seen a happier woman in a veil. Part of me felt bad for her that she had to wait so long. I also think she regrets not having children, and that's pretty sad too. But they are really happy together. To each her own.

 

Her BF, he feels their relationship is progressing. He has moved in with her. They got a dog together. They even bought a place together. That's all progress in he direction of marriage and children. Men, we tend to move a little slower than you ladies do is all.

 

BS! Men move extremely quickly when they are after something THEY WANT. You only move slowly and drag your feet when it's about something you do not want to do. I've seen many men propose within two years.

 

 

Secondly, if he also wanted marriage and children he wouldn't be hurt that she wants that. It wouldn't even occur to him that it's a contest between him and having a family. There are men who do want a family and would be happy that she wants that with him. Instead, he says he's hurt.

 

Absolutely 100% agree.

 

I feel so bad for OP. I wouldn't be able to stay in the same house with him right now if I were you, I'd be so angry. Angry about the lack of communication. You deserve to get answers, and you deserve the truth from him, about what he wants or doesn't want. To just brush it off because it's an uncomfortable conversation that is stressing him out is really selfish.

 

Actually above all else I agree with Gaeta that that is the biggest problem you have- his inability to talk about this. It's true- do you really want to raise children with someone who can't even have a conversation about marriage after three years? Married life is hard- you want a partner who will talk to you when things are tough. Who cares if he wants to marry you or not- at this point, why do you even want to marry him?

 

I was resentful of using the word nag earlier, but it seems like this is the kind of guy you're going to have to nag to help you change diapers, install the car seat, put the crib together, help you bathe the kids every night at 8 o'clock. I have friends who are going through that same hell with men they shouldn't have had kids with, and that is not the picture perfect life you're hoping for either.

Edited July 25, 2016 by AMJ

[katiegrl]

AMJ wrote:

>>BS! Men move extremely quickly when they are after something THEY WANT. You only move slowly and drag your feet when it's about something you do not want to do. I've seen many men propose within two years.

<<

 

---

 

I have posted this before, enigma I am sure you will remember as you responded to my post in the affirmative.... but one of my brothers, whom we all (my family) thought was a huge commitment phobe, having been in many long term RLs with very nice and beautiful women that went nowhere.... met a woman last year and married her less than one year later (his wedding was in June).

 

So yeah I would have to agree with AMJ's assertion about that.... which enigma you have previously agreed with also.

 

So a bit confused re your responses here.

[SpringAngel83]

What would be more concerning for me than him not wanting marriage, is him telling me he feels "dead inside."

 

I would have explored that with him... why does he feel dead inside, what's going on there?

 

A man can go through the motions of having a RL, on the surface everything appears to be peachy.... when the reality is something entirely different.

 

SpringAngel, what was your response when he told you this?

 

This is the scariest part of all of this. I've tried to talk about it and ask what he means but all he says is that he doesn't really have feelings and he can't be this emotional guy I'm asking him to be because he's numb. I asked what we can do to fix this and he seems to think it's not a problem, it's just who he is.

 

I realize he battles with depression so I'm trying to be understanding. And I think a lot of this stems from his relationship with his mom. She is kind of cold as far as emotions go. But I know they love each other.