Should I wait for the ring... or leave??

[AMJ]

You can either make his fears a reality by leaving him over the marriage deal, proving that being married means more to you than the guy you claim to love, or you can do as I suggested and watch his attitude turn around. A guy has to feel like his woman will stand by him for the long haul, and you always complaining and showing that you are unhappy makes him feel insecure in his relationship, thus making a marriage unlikely. Show him that you are the type of woman that actually stands by her man, and he might actually see that you are the type of girl that a guy wants to marry.

 

First of all, what came first, the chicken or the egg? She's unhappy BECAUSE he isn't responding at all to her concerns, and her needs. They have a fight, she listens to him. But he doesn't listen to her.

 

Second of all, what advice would you give to a married man who's wife stopped having sex with him? Would you say he should leave because his needs weren't being met? Or would you say he should "stand by her side because a woman needs to feel like a man will stick by her through the long haul".

 

If it's important to anyone to get married and have kids, they should not be in a relationship with someone who does NOT want to get married and have kids, period. It's that simple. You can't change someone.

 

What is not simple however, is that he knew she wanted this and got into a very serious relationship anyway, even though all along he likely knew and did not admit it was something he didn't want.

 

OP my ex told me when he was 36 that he never wanted to be married, never wanted kids. He waited a year into the relationship and I was angry that he didn't tell me sooner. Yesterday he turned 40 and he's still single. He probably always will be. It's true that some men grow up and change, but that is a huge gamble to take.

 

People need to stop saying that she wants marriage more than she loves this guy. Seriously if that were the case it would be really really easy for her to dump him. Clearly this is not easy for her, and breaking up was not something she planned when she bought a house with him.

[BlueIris]

Maybe think about whether he’s parent material.

 

You can love him as a boyfriend very much. That's a separate issue.

 

But, as Katie said, he's not caring about you. You've been honest for 3 years and he doesn't care. He doesn't like that you're upset but he doesn't care why you're upset or that you're upset. He's not trying to understand you. Plus, he's a bad communicator and pouty.

 

If 3 years and making a major financial commitment together aren’t enough to make him feel loved or secure, I doubt he could handle the time and attention that children take.

 

He doesn't sound like great father material at all.

[frus69]

The women here are also asking her to make a huge gamble. By leaving her current BF, who she admits is a great guy and she is in love with him, just to find someone else to marry, hoping that she will find another great guy she loves? I think my option is less of a gamble, actually.

 

 

 

She has been expressing her feelings. A lot. That is what caused this whole situation to begin with, IMO.

 

Her BF, he feels their relationship is progressing. He has moved in with her. They got a dog together. They even bought a place together. That's all progress in he direction of marriage and children. Men, we tend to move a little slower than you ladies do is all.

 

My feeling is that he probably loves the OP, but her stressing about marriage and kids all the time has him thinking those things are what is important to her, not him. I would not want to marry a girl who just wants to get married. I would only want to marry a girl that just wants to marry me. With 70% of divorces being initiated by women, divorce is a real concern for men. It would be silly to marry a woman who is already unhappy prior to marriage. I think the BF here just thinks that the OP won't be any happier post marriage.

So you are saying that OP should shut up about it and maybe he will turn around and marry her and if she loses the gamble, well just suck it up and live her life childless?

[katiegrl]

It is my understanding that she does *only* want to marry him. Read her original post again.

 

If she didn't only want to marry him, I highly doubt she would have stuck around "standing by him" for three plus years.

 

enigma, he told her he wanted these things, when they first met. Does that not account for anything?

 

Now three years later, he doesn't want these things? Why? What's that about?

 

I think they may have a communication problem. In fact, it is obvious they do.

 

He feels she only wants the ring and, as such, doesn't love him.

 

He responds by dismissing her feelings, shuts her out.

 

She feels because he won't marry her, he doesn't love her.

 

She responds by walking on eggshells and attempting to "make nice."

 

OP, have you considered couples counseling?

 

If you are intent to stay, I would strongly advise you do so.

Edited July 25, 2016 by katiegrl

[AMJ]

I would suggest that he take steps to make his wife want to have sex with him. Would you suggest that he instead nag his wife about sex all the time, hoping that convinced her to want to have sex with him? Which option is more likely to be successful; seduction, or nagging?

 

 

You assume her BF is a liar. Why is this..

 

...because you have been hurt in the past, and you are letting your own personal bias influence your advice here. Just because your ex was a liar, does not mean the OP's BF is.

 

Her BF is a liar because he said in the beginning he wanted marriage and now he apparently doesn't want that. Because if he did want that, he would have proposed already. Or he would at LEAST TALK TO HER about why he needs to wait. Men who freak out about this conversation have commitment issues. My own personal bias of course influences my advice. Everyone here who posts anything has a personal bias...we're talking about relationships, not calculus.

 

Well, that is useful advice- that she should seduce her boyfriend into proposing marriage. Instead of nag him. I'm sorry but it sounds like she's already basically become the perfect wife for him; suggesting that she needs to do something differently is just not fair. If anything playing house was the problem- because he already has married life and doesn't understand why she wants more.

 

I get what you're saying about men not wanting to feel like women only want them for marriage...but those kind of women are really easy to spot, and OP is not one of them. I know women like that, too.

[SevenCity]

I would suggest that he take steps to make his wife want to have sex with him. Would you suggest that he instead nag his wife about sex all the time, hoping that convinced her to want to have sex with him? Which option is more likely to be successful; seduction, or nagging?

 

 

 

You assume her BF is a liar. Why is this...

 

 

 

...because you have been hurt in the past, and you are letting your own personal bias influence your advice here. Just because your ex was a liar, does not mean the OP's BF is.

 

I would listen to this. Most of the "dump him" advice is coming from scorned women. As a guy, I would feel exactly like your bf. He moved in with you, bought a house with you and a dog. Does this not show commitment?

 

Women tend to be so hung up on marriage but many should be as lucky to have a guy willing to financially commit and be faithful. Many of these women who got a ring also now have a divorce decree.

 

Read some of the threads here. IF you leave him there is no guarantee that you will find someone who you love as much nor who is willing to marry you. You would first need to heal from this than likely date someone for a year before marriage comes up. And that is if you get lucky.

 

What happens if you are with someone who is willing to give you marriage and kids but you don't love them as much but the clock is ticking? Do you marry them anyway?

 

I agree he should not dismiss your feelings but understand where he is coming from. In his eyes he feels all you want is a ring but will end up divorcing him in the end.

 

Your problem is not the ring, it is your lack of communication. Talk to him rationally and calmly and tell him how you feel and see how he reacts to the suggestion of coounceling.

[SpringAngel83]

I would listen to this. Most of the "dump him" advice is coming from scorned women. As a guy, I would feel exactly like your bf. He moved in with you, bought a house with you and a dog. Does this not show commitment?

 

Women tend to be so hung up on marriage but many should be as lucky to have a guy willing to financially commit and be faithful. Many of these women who got a ring also now have a divorce decree.

 

Read some of the threads here. IF you leave him there is no guarantee that you will find someone who you love as much nor who is willing to marry you. You would first need to heal from this than likely date someone for a year before marriage comes up. And that is if you get lucky.

 

What happens if you are with someone who is willing to give you marriage and kids but you don't love them as much but the clock is ticking? Do you marry them anyway?

 

I agree he should not dismiss your feelings but understand where he is coming from. In his eyes he feels all you want is a ring but will end up divorcing him in the end.

 

Your problem is not the ring, it is your lack of communication. Talk to him rationally and calmly and tell him how you feel and see how he reacts to the suggestion of coounceling.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you.

[katiegrl]

He said he wanted to have marriage and kids with her in the beginning, yes. That doesn't mean he lied. Like I have been saying all along, I think that he does not feel secure enough in his relationship for him to jump into marriage witth the OP yet. IMO, he has every right to be concerned when you consider the fact that she is posting here talking about leaving the guy.

 

My advice to her was given in the beginning of this thread. Not to walk on eggshells, but to let the discussion drop. Nagging a guy about marriage won't get you anywhere. Showing a guy that you are a great catch, and will stick around, that is what makes a guy want to go ring shopping.

 

Your last paragraph...I agree, *except* if that guy has commitment issues.

 

Which plenty of guys do have. And which I would suspect her bf has too. Clearly.

 

Again, for 2.5 years, she *did* stick around, no nagging, etc, and did display "great catch" characteristics...

 

Look where that got her. On her way to never never land with this guy.

 

Now she stands up for herself, expressing her needs, her desire for marriage, which *he* said HE wanted too ....and he calls that nagging?

 

There is something very very wrong with that line of thinking.

 

I would never tolerate it .... I can tell you that.

 

I don't nag, I leave.

 

And she should too, IMO... this is BS.

Edited July 25, 2016 by katiegrl

[AMJ]

...because you have been hurt in the past, and you are letting your own personal bias influence your advice here. Just because your ex was a liar, does not mean the OP's BF is.

 

And actually, as much as it hurt at the time, I was grateful that my ex was honest about not wanting marriage. It's not that he lied, we just never talked about it. At the time marriage wasn't that important to me. I felt like he didn't string me along, and he very well could have. I was the GF who said "okay it's fine, I don't care about marriage, I just want you" but he knew I didn't mean that. He knew eventually I'd want something he couldn't give me. So actually, I tried your approach of being the "cool" GF who was just "happy" with the status quo and didn't need anything more than her man. And it did not work, not at all.

 

If she decides to stay with him, that's her decision. She's here asking for advice, my advice is no better or worse than yours. I'm offering my personal story to say that I have some experience with a similar situation. Do you Enigma, have a similar story to share?

[frus69]

I would listen to this. Most of the "dump him" advice is coming from scorned women. As a guy, I would feel exactly like your bf. He moved in with you, bought a house with you and a dog. Does this not show commitment?

 

Women tend to be so hung up on marriage but many should be as lucky to have a guy willing to financially commit and be faithful. Many of these women who got a ring also now have a divorce decree.

 

Read some of the threads here. IF you leave him there is no guarantee that you will find someone who you love as much nor who is willing to marry you. You would first need to heal from this than likely date someone for a year before marriage comes up. And that is if you get lucky.

 

What happens if you are with someone who is willing to give you marriage and kids but you don't love them as much but the clock is ticking? Do you marry them anyway?

 

I agree he should not dismiss your feelings but understand where he is coming from. In his eyes he feels all you want is a ring but will end up divorcing him in the end.

 

Your problem is not the ring, it is your lack of communication. Talk to him rationally and calmly and tell him how you feel and see how he reacts to the suggestion of coounceling.

Something doesn't make sense here. He didn't want to marry and have kids with her, she became nagging and unhappy, and it pushed him further more to not want marriage and kids with her.

 

 

So question: why did he not want marriage and kids with her at the very beginning???

 

 

What's his attitude on kids, OP? If he was financially commit and faithful, as this guy said, why didn't he have kids with you? Many people these days go without that piece of paper but still have kids.

 

 

I personally don't think he wants marriage at all. There are many couples living together without being married. I think he is one of them. He can live with you but wont marry you.

[BlueIris]

Her BF is a liar because he said in the beginning he wanted marriage and now he apparently doesn't want that. Because if he did want that, he would have proposed already. Or he would at LEAST TALK TO HER about why he needs to wait. Men who freak out about this conversation have commitment issues. My own personal bias of course influences my advice. Everyone here who posts anything has a personal bias...we're talking about relationships, not calculus.

 

Well, that is useful advice- that she should seduce her boyfriend into proposing marriage. Instead of nag him. I'm sorry but it sounds like she's already basically become the perfect wife for him; suggesting that she needs to do something differently is just not fair. If anything playing house was the problem- because he already has married life and doesn't understand why she wants more.

 

I get what you're saying about men not wanting to feel like women only want them for marriage...but those kind of women are really easy to spot, and OP is not one of them. I know women like that, too.

 

Yeah, to me those are the key points.

 

Take the him versus her part away and just look at those traits.

 

People who won't talk to you, who aren't comfortably open with you, are just difficult. Life doesn't get easier with someone who handles things that way. You can have friends and family that talk with you and share their feelings, but I'd want that in a partner too.

 

Secondly, if he also wanted marriage and children he wouldn't be hurt that she wants that. It wouldn't even occur to him that it's a contest between him and having a family. There are men who do want a family and would be happy that she wants that with him. Instead, he says he's hurt.

[basil67]

Enigma, you've got me curious.

 

A 30yo woman finds a great guy. She knows that one day she wants to marry him and have a family with him. She also knows that her fertility is going to start taking a nosedive after she's 35 and having kids is important to her. Let's put her in a country such as Australia where adoption is virtually impossible.

 

How long is it reasonable for this woman to wait without mentioning marriage? At what point should a woman recognise that they appear to be on a different wavelength? And does she raise the issue with him or just walk away?

[frus69]

 

My advice remains the same to the OP. She should show her BF why he should want to marry her. Be the type of woman that a guy wants to commit to, and demonstrate that she is the type of girl that does not contribute to divorce stats. If all of that does not work, and the guy just plain does not want to marry her, then the OP needs to decide what means more to her, marriage and kids, or her BF.

 

You mean for all the three years they are together she failed to show him she's the woman he should marry?

 

Or, he just plain doesn't want to marry her. Which one is more likely?

[winny]

Wow!!!

You are talking like life is a race with a set of milestones to be achieved by certain age.

Just because you want something doesn't mean your boyfriend will. Maybe he doesn't want any kids anymore and doesn't want to get married anymore. It's his life and he is free to do what he wants to as per his wish and also entitled to change his mind.

You seem to think that you are losing the race coz some friends got married. You have a guy who loves you, a beautiful house, a puppy... a wonderful life.. then stop nagging him because YOU are scared that YOU wont have the "perfect" life. Whats so wrong about a guy who doesn't wanna get married or have kids??? You cannot expect everyone to live by a rulebook which the society and public in general have deemed to be the best way......

Now let's look at the facts here - He doesn't want to marry you. Period.

So if you are not happy with it then tell that to him and break up. Or else continue being with him and accept the fact that you may not get married ever or have kids ever.... and thats perfectly okay too!!!

Stop the nagging...! Go on a vacation or something.... if u continue... then whatever little bit chance there is of a wedding wont be there anymore... he might be imagining you as a nagging wife and feeling scared of the crazy life it would be if he marries you...

Edited July 25, 2016 by winny

[Arieswoman]

Now I could be being cynical here, but possibly this guy has done a "bait & switch".

He got this girl to live with him under the promise of marriage and kids. Now he has everything he wanted without the commitment of marriage he's cooling off.

And if she cries "foul" it's her fault !

 

Or, he could have just changed his mind. He has a right to do that but he should tell her the truth and let her make an informed choice.

[winny]

Now I could be being cynical here, but possibly this guy has done a "bait & switch".

He got this girl to live with him under the promise of marriage and kids. Now he has everything he wanted without the commitment of marriage he's cooling off.

And if she cries "foul" it's her fault !

 

Or, he could have just changed his mind. He has a right to do that but he should tell her the truth and let her make an informed choice.

 

The way he seems so cool about her leaving him.... I am confused... how can he love her and also be like... yeah whatever just let me know if you are leaving...

[Itspointless]

The way he seems so cool about her leaving him.... I am confused... how can he love her and also be like... yeah whatever just let me know if you are leaving...

Because he perhaps already is convinced that she is motivated to do so. If he has been left in the past, these could have been the signs that he saw. It also could be a sign of a defensive pattern emotionally speaking. But I cannot tell as I do not know the guy. What I notice from this thread and also with many of the posters here is that we all seem to have the magical ability to look into other peoples heads.

 

Katie, yes he could be emotionally unavailable. That is something she can find out by trying to have good conversations with him or asking him to go to therapy (as she notices that they both have some trouble communicating). I get the feeling both of them are not great communicators. How does his family communicate? Do they speak about emotions and if they do, how do they do that? Perhaps he just communicates the way as he is used to since childhood.

 

Personally I know people who proposed after 2.5 years, but also couples who did after more than five years. The ones with problems, or as it seems contracts to sit it out together that I know, are usually the ones who proposed early on.

[sandylee1]

I'd leave now.

 

By saying he gave you the house and puppy, he's saying that's it. That's what he's happy with.

 

Don't waste any more time with him and be glad you don't have kids with him and are still waiting for a proposal.

 

Don't waste your breath talking about it anymore. He knows your views and it's getting you nowhere.

 

End it.

[elaine567]

The main problem here is the ticking clock, she is 33, she cannot afford to stick around till some guy decides in 5 years time.

"Nah! This is not going to work, we are not going to get married."

 

HE, as a man, has all the time in the world, and that is why he either needs to step up to the plate, or tell her bluntly this is never going to work.

"I am happy pottering about with you, but marriage and kids. NO."

 

He can sit there justifying all he wants, but at 33 she cannot sit around and wait for him, he needs to realise that. Who wants to be with anyone who obviously does not feel the same way about you, that you feel about them?

She wants to dedicate her life to this man, and all he is concerned about is a house and a puppy...

 

Seems to me, it all went swimmingly well until the OP voiced her concerns as to where this was really heading and then he shuts down on her. A "bait and switch" does come to mind here, as Arieswoman says, because he doesn't want to discuss it and that may be due to guilt on his part. He misled her, and now it is coming home to roost. She is not just going to be happy living with him, she wants the full package.

 

It is clear to me that a house and a puppy is as far as he is wiling to go, and if she was 23, then that would be fine, they would have years to sort themselves out.

BUT as he is 35 and she is 33, and with no desire to get married here on his part, then it just ain't going to happen.

I guess he still wants to keep his options open.

[lana-banana]

I'm appalled by some of the advice in this thread. (I'm also appalled by the accusation that the female posters here are "scorned women", an incredibly sexist and demeaning assertion. Speaking for myself and at least three other contributors to this thread who I know to be happily married, it's also untrue.)

 

Did you ever actually sit down and discuss timelines before you moved in? You say he "seemed to be on board" with a future together but unless he ever explicitly said he wanted to marry you, you can't assume that's what he meant.

 

He is never going to marry you and has said as much. He was content to let the relationship progress until he got what he want; i.e. a house and a dog. Neither of those things imply a wedding or a child. They shouldn't have to. For plenty of people, living together with a dog is enough. But it's not for the you and that is the issue.

 

The bad advice here is suggesting you essentially suck it up, stop talking, and twist yourself into knots trying to prove you deserve to be married. This is insanity. He was not planning to put a ring on it and then suddenly changed his mind when you started asking. He has been very clear a proposal is not coming no matter what, and your only options are to accept it or leave. He straight-up told you it's your prerogative to break up if you don't like it.

 

No one should have to be convinced into marrying you. If he wants to put a ring on it, he will. He doesn't and has been explicit about it. That is never going to change. It's all on you at this point.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, at the end of the day, he has made it clear he isn't going to ask you to marry him. If that is important to you (and it's perfectly fine that it is) then this isn't your guy.

 

It comes down to what you want: will you feel satisfied living together for a long time without getting married? What about having children without being married?

 

For some people, getting married is just not important. For others it is. The problem is that your boyfriend falls in the former group, and you the latter.

 

You don't want the same things. Your future goals don't align anymore.

[elaine567]

Showing a guy that you are a great catch, and will stick around, that is what makes a guy want to go ring shopping.

 

This guy is "petrified" of divorce, so what can SHE possibly do about that?

Plenty apparently loving, "perfect" wives and mothers, divorce their husbands all the time, how can she ever guarantee to him that she will not do the same.

The only real solution for him and a guarantee that he will not get divorced is to not get married and that is exactly what he is doing here.

He has, to his mind, "compromised" and she should thus be grateful, but all he did was move the goalposts and that is sneaky, so she is unsurprisingly upset and angry.

He is now sulking like a toddler...

He is not "marriage material" and that is the bottom line.

 

Of course to other women he may be perfect, a man who will commit to a house and a dog is manna from heaven, but it is horses for courses and the OP here wants the whole package and there is nothing wrong with that.

[joseb]

A couple of things that were not touched on.

 

How is the relationship in general? I mean do you go out, do fun stuff, are you both happy?

 

Does he seem happy in general? I mean, he said he is "empty inside" - that kind of talk is often associated with depression.

 

Regarding his fear of divorce, is this a financial thing (e.g. have you considered a prenup?) Seems unlikely, given he has already bought a house with you though...

[sandylee1]

At the point you bought the house, did you not discuss marriage in a more serious way? As opposed to its something I want in the future. My now husband wanted us to buy a house and marriage was just too general for my liking, so I said no. I was getting the vibes of let's buy a house and see how things go.

 

At this point I said if he wasn't sure about marriage, we could slow things down or seperate/take a break. He wasn't keen on a seperation and proposed soon after this. I think it's partly because he was with his Ex for over 7 years on and off and marriage wasn't ever discussed. I would never wait around for that long for any man.

 

I was absolutely ready to walk away from the relationship and you need to do the same now.

[Gaeta]

I'm 33 and my boyfriend of 3 years in 35. We just bought a home together and have an 8 month old puppy. We have lived together the past 2.5 years and I'm ready for marriage and children. We met when I just turned 30 and I was very open about wanting kids and marriage. He said he was on board and is looking for the same. We moved in after 6 months of dating and after the honeymoon phase it's just not going anywhere.

If I understand this well, you moved in together after 6 months dating and then it started 'not going anywhere' ?

 

When exactly did you start hitting a wall with him concerning marriage & kids? 6 months in? or just after you bought a house together?

 

When you say you just bought a house what do you mean? a year? a month?

 

If it was going nowhere right after the honeymoon phase why did you buy a house together?