The inevitable happened

[S2B]

I really hope I am prepared for the tough days ahead. I realize that it won't be easy, but if I didn't want things to work out, I wouldn't stay at this point.

 

He didn't want a timeline of the affair, he asked me the questions he wanted to know and I was honest with him about details and timelines. He is also aware of why I feel like I got to the point that I did.

 

I have started looking at therapists that could help me specifically in this situation. I feel like I have to heal myself from whatever I am suppressing deep down that is leading me to make the bad choices I have made. I told my husband last night that I think a lot of it stems from such a self hatred and insecurity of myself that I crave for anyone/everyone but especially men to tell me I'm special, beautiful, awesome, etc. So my first goal is to find out why I'm like that, and what I can do for myself to not feel a need for constant affirmation.

 

One thing I know for sure is that this situation has been a real reality check for me and what I want in my relationship.

 

It's still all about you, right?

 

When your every thought and actions become focused on how your husband must feel then you might be capable of making some progress.

 

And come on, you know why you did it - you don't need a therapist spoon feeding you your own truth.

 

Get busy being honest and more UNselfish - then the marriage may start healing.

[alsudduth]

It's still all about you, right?

 

When your every thought and actions become focused on how your husband must feel then you might be capable of making some progress.

 

And come on, you know why you did it - you don't need a therapist spoon feeding you your own truth.

 

Get busy being honest and more UNselfish - then the marriage may start healing.

 

I have been as honest as I can be with my husband, it doesn't negate the need for me to fix myself as well.

 

For the record, my husband agrees that this is a good idea. The main thought in working on me is so that I CAN be the trustworthy person my husband needs. Rebuilding trust with him is going to take a long time, I might as well fix myself while I'm going through this process.

 

Clearly this has become about who can twist everything I say into a selfish meaning to infer that i only think of myself and still am only thinking of myself or that I don't see the pain that I've caused my husband when I very clearly see the pain I've caused and am looking for ways to better myself and my relationship. I came here looking for advice on how to handle the situation. I'm grateful for the good advice I've recieved, thank you to the ones who have given me sound advice, it has not gone unheard.

[merrmeade]

I really hope I am prepared for the tough days ahead. I realize that it won't be easy, but if I didn't want things to work out, I wouldn't stay at this point.

 

He didn't want a timeline of the affair, he asked me the questions he wanted to know and I was honest with him about details and timelines. He is also aware of why I feel like I got to the point that I did.

 

I have started looking at therapists that could help me specifically in this situation. I feel like I have to heal myself from whatever I am suppressing deep down that is leading me to make the bad choices I have made. I told my husband last night that I think a lot of it stems from such a self hatred and insecurity of myself that I crave for anyone/everyone but especially men to tell me I'm special, beautiful, awesome, etc. So my first goal is to find out why I'm like that, and what I can do for myself to not feel a need for constant affirmation.

 

One thing I know for sure is that this situation has been a real reality check for me and what I want in my relationship.

First I want to acknowledge that you're doing a brave thing, putting yourself out here for everyone to react to - and coming back to take more each day. That's brave.

 

Also I think you are genuinely trying to understand yourself and what made you step out of your marriage for validation, among other things - beginning the process anyway. That part will be a long process, of course.

 

And you clearly want your marriage back and you want to make it better.

 

But what I still am hearing is - what you want. Your marriage. A future. Your husband.

 

For him to notice, to seriously turn his head it has to be your effort to understand what's going on with him. You have to show your willingness to accept and understand whatever comes out of him, short of violence.

 

What you did to HIM is where your focus belongs. You have to spend time trying to really know and feel his pain at your hands.

 

Watch him and try to see, feel and understand what he's going through and then show him that you do. Don't think it away. Don't even try to fix his pain (you can't); just acknowledge it any way you can. Don't say that it makes you feel terrible because it reminds you of what you did. It has to be genuine, meaning it has to truly cut your heart in two to see him suffer.

 

Make it about him, not about you, and make it true.

Edited July 12, 2016 by merrmeade

[Jersey born raised]

A bit back in this thread your mentioned your husband demeaning your EA OM. Did you ever run down his?

 

I think you are taking the right steps, but is he? At this point I wonder if this isnt being used by him to control you. If you read my past posts I am sure this is the first time I've every posted this thpught.

 

Finally bear in mind your husband is not posting here (and I am not suggesting he should) so the advise you receive is suspect,

[alsudduth]

My husband is a very quiet person. He doesn't get all "feely" on the outside. Regardless of this, I KNOW how much I've hurt him. I have made sure to tell him that it was unacceptable behavior on my part and that he didn't deserve this.

 

For him, he believes that I don't want to be with him. And who can blame him? I don't. That is how he is relaying his hurt to me. My job is to do whatever it takes to prove to him that not only do I want to be with him, but that someday he can trust me to not hurt him like that again. I am doing that by leaving my phone open to him, keeping in contact with him through the day to let him know he is on my mind, encouraging him to talk to me when he has something on his mind, and if he can't talk to me just yet, to talk to someone. He told his sister last night while they were at the gym. I'm glad he has her to talk through this with. I hope that someday he will feel again like he can talk to me about what he is going through, but first I have to prove that it's safe for him to do so.

 

JerseyBorn - I do not feel that he is using this as a control over me, I think he truly just doesn't trust me at this point (and I get it) someday he may realize that he still has some making up to do himself for his past indiscretions, but right now is about me showing him that we are worth getting to the point that it is worth it to him to fight just as hard as I plan to be for as long as it takes for us to find a happy place again.

[alsudduth]

A bit back in this thread your mentioned your husband demeaning your EA OM. Did you ever run down his?

 

to answer your question though, I absolutely gave her a piece of my mind when she sent her ugly mug in a picture to my husband with a heart emoji. And I might have mentioned to my husband that if I ever was in the same room with her, that I would probably punch her in her stupid face.

[alsudduth]

 

For him, he believes that I don't want to be with him. And who can blame him? I don't.

 

to clarify, the "I Don't" is meant as I don't blame him. Not that I don't want to be with him.....It read weird to me after I posted.

[Cephalopod]

My husband is a very quiet person. He doesn't get all "feely" on the outside. Regardless of this, I KNOW how much I've hurt him. I have made sure to tell him that it was unacceptable behavior on my part and that he didn't deserve this.

 

For him, he believes that I don't want to be with him. And who can blame him? I don't. That is how he is relaying his hurt to me. My job is to do whatever it takes to prove to him that not only do I want to be with him, but that someday he can trust me to not hurt him like that again. I am doing that by leaving my phone open to him, keeping in contact with him through the day to let him know he is on my mind, encouraging him to talk to me when he has something on his mind, and if he can't talk to me just yet, to talk to someone. He told his sister last night while they were at the gym. I'm glad he has her to talk through this with. I hope that someday he will feel again like he can talk to me about what he is going through, but first I have to prove that it's safe for him to do so.

 

JerseyBorn - I do not feel that he is using this as a control over me, I think he truly just doesn't trust me at this point (and I get it) someday he may realize that he still has some making up to do himself for his past indiscretions, but right now is about me showing him that we are worth getting to the point that it is worth it to him to fight just as hard as I plan to be for as long as it takes for us to find a happy place again.

 

What was the impetus of your husband starting up an EA with the OW? Was there already a disconnect in the marriage before that?

[alsudduth]

What was the impetus of your husband starting up an EA with the OW? Was there already a disconnect in the marriage before that?

 

I honestly don't know to this day. I knew for about a year that something was off in the marriage, but every time I brought it up it was "it's fine", "we are good", "you are just insecure"

 

The "you're being insecure" got me the most to the point that I really thought it was me. I saw a counselor to try and figure out how to be more secure in the relationship.

Then we met my sister in laws now former best friend. She tried to get her hooks in him immediately. I saw it and I warned him that she liked him. He didn't listen. And said they were "just friends" and they talked on Facebook all day and all night. At the time I was feeling very much neglected by him based on the entire previous year. And when he called her "just to see how she was doing" I knew we had a big problem. It was just about a month after that that he told me he wanted a divorce, and that he didn't think he was "meant to be married" nevermind the fact that he convienently had just come back from a VW show in her hometown a few weeks prior.

 

So yeah, I was in a bad place when I first started talking to my OM. It still doesn't excuse the fact that I kept the OM in the sidelines while trying to make an effort to re uild the marriage. I should have been a stronger person and left my H when he chose to make zero changes for almost 2 years.

 

But I digress. If I had left him that long ago, we wouldn't have the chance we do now to both commit to the marriage.

[66Charger]

Something just feels off.

[S2B]

My husband is a very quiet person. He doesn't get all "feely" on the outside. Regardless of this, I KNOW how much I've hurt him. I have made sure to tell him that it was unacceptable behavior on my part and that he didn't deserve this.

 

For him, he believes that I don't want to be with him. And who can blame him? I don't. That is how he is relaying his hurt to me. My job is to do whatever it takes to prove to him that not only do I want to be with him, but that someday he can trust me to not hurt him like that again. I am doing that by leaving my phone open to him, keeping in contact with him through the day to let him know he is on my mind, encouraging him to talk to me when he has something on his mind, and if he can't talk to me just yet, to talk to someone. He told his sister last night while they were at the gym. I'm glad he has her to talk through this with. I hope that someday he will feel again like he can talk to me about what he is going through, but first I have to prove that it's safe for him to do so.

 

JerseyBorn - I do not feel that he is using this as a control over me, I think he truly just doesn't trust me at this point (and I get it) someday he may realize that he still has some making up to do himself for his past indiscretions, but right now is about me showing him that we are worth getting to the point that it is worth it to him to fight just as hard as I plan to be for as long as it takes for us to find a happy place again.

 

He may never be capable of trusting you again - can you live with that?

 

And it may never be a "happy" marriage after all the hurt you've both caused - can you live with that too?

[whichwayisup]

So your H had an EA with another woman in the past? The trust between you two is gone and has to be rebuilt. This can't just fall on your shoulders, especially since it seems he's not innocent and had an inappropriate friendship with someone else too. Have you two thought about marriage counseling?

 

 

My husband says that part of him doesn't care what I do with this guy, that I am going to do what I'm going to do, and he'll do what he's going to do.

Did he mean he would go look for another OW or go find his past exOW?

[Cephalopod]

Yeah...see..

 

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for the husband here. I do not condone revenge affairs, but we have a situation here where the husband's EA did cause a definite disconnect between him and his wife.

 

I know the rule of thumb is never to blame the BS, but in this case I have to in good conscience. I think his betrayal hurt the OP more than she realized, and I think it was a huge motivating factor in her seeking out affection elsewhere.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Cephalopod,

 

Issues are issues - adultery is adultery never confuse the two or use one to justify the other.

 

Yes his EA was a huge issue. His passive aggressive nature is an issue (which might have lead to her original thread in 2015 on sex).

 

Yes her EA was a huge issue. Yes her flirtatious nature is an issue (especially combined with his passive aggressive nature).

 

We mention often the WS has the heavy lifting to do. Why, because the BS has to keep issues and adultery separate.

 

At this point I see the husband pouting. Waiting for her to read his mind.

 

Alsudduth during IC or MC has the issues of how to deal with a passive aggressive person been discussed. If so what where the suggestions and how have you used them?

[Cephalopod]

I'm not absolving her of her poor choices. I agree with you that her brief encounter with stupidity was her fault and hers alone.

 

alsudduth I must ask you: when you went to the bar that night with your friend, what were your expectations? Did you get dolled up and looking hot? Were you expecting to get hit on and flirt a little? Was this just a flirtations adventure that ended up going to far? Were you pissed at your husband and hoping to make him jealous? What were your motivations in going to a bar like that?

 

Was it really just to have a few drinks and get out of the house?

[alsudduth]

I'm not absolving her of her poor choices. I agree with you that her brief encounter with stupidity was her fault and hers alone.

 

alsudduth I must ask you: when you went to the bar that night with your friend, what were your expectations? Did you get dolled up and looking hot? Were you expecting to get hit on and flirt a little? Was this just a flirtations adventure that ended up going to far? Were you pissed at your husband and hoping to make him jealous? What were your motivations in going to a bar like that?

 

Was it really just to have a few drinks and get out of the house?

 

So first I just want to point out that the affair was my bad choice alone. I don't want to come off as placing blame for my actions on my husband, because I fully get that I am responsible for that. I just don't want this thread to get into a blame game. I am to blame for this particular issueissue in this thread.

 

That said, are you talking about a specific instance? I don't recall posting about going to a bar with friends.

 

Either way, in general when I go out with my girlfriends, yes I do get dressed up because it makes me feel good to look nice. I don't go out with my girls for any other reason than to gossip, catch up over dinner and a few drinks, some shopping, and if I'm really getting crazy, a little kareoke. I rarely initiate conversations with people I don't know when I'm out.

 

I was talking to a friend at lunch today who was talking about how she couldn't believe the way guys just flocked to me (without provocation) she told it to our other friend at lunch as it happened the last time we went out. I was with her and another friend, we walked into the restaurant for dinner and as we were being led to our table, I was separated from them because I was surrounded by a group of 5 guys who started talking and trying to get me to go out with them. I literally said two words to them, "no thanks", laughed it off, caught sight of my friends and pushed through them to get to our table.

 

That's the kind of thing that happens to me often. I'm friendly, but I never would entertain the idea of just leaving someplace with people in general that I don't know.

 

I don't feel that I'm overly attractive. I'm not frumpy, but I would describe myself as cute but average. I honestly don't know what it is that I do that sends out the message for guys to come up to me anytime.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

I honestly don't know what it is that I do that sends out the message for guys to come up to me anytime.

 

You have a vagina. Thats really all there is to it. Dudes will talk to you and flirt with you. Not every guy that talks to you or even flirts with you is necessarily looking to score or anything either. Most of us just rather enjoy talking to and flirting with women. Its just in our dna. They might not even find you that attractive to be honest. But its not even about attraction necessarily. A lot of guys just like to make a woman feel good. If i compliment a woman for example, im not trying to be creepy or say im interested (cause im not, no offense but none of y'all can hold a candle to my wife) or anything like that. If i make a woman feel good, it makes ME feel good. So its more about me than you.

 

"Well why dont y'all do that to each other?" Some women might ask. Nah, we are always trying to tear each other down. Thats why we talk so much trash to one another. If you get a good one on a buddy, it feels great! Its hilarious to us to bash each other. To call each others manhood into question. To kick one another down a notch. Makes us feel good. The ONLY men who do this to women are abusers. Most of us would never want to hurt a woman or say the things we say to one another to a woman. It doesnt make us feel good. Even after a fight! How many of you woman have gotten this text or call the next day?... "im sorry i was such an ******* to you yesterday babe, im a dumb ass i didnt mean it." Like all of you? Lol. Bet no man ever has gotten that text from their best mate, lol. That would be absurd, and frankly unnecessary, cause we are already used to each other being dicks to one another.

 

Thats just how it goes. The dna of men. No need trying to understand it. Just accept it for what it is. And realize not every guy that talks to you is hitting on you, nor even finds you attractive necessarily.

 

Ladies if you want to thwart guys talking to you, just be cold and stand-offish. Dont make eye contact. Dont smile. Give zero chances for a conversation. We'll just think you're a stuck up bish and move on. A stuck up bish is just like a dude to us. We have no desire to make you feel good about yourself. Thats a fact!

[Jersey born raised]

You have been clear on your needs and fornthe past 8 months he has improved. Greatly?

 

To this day you don't know issues he had with you for going outside of the marriage. How can you fix a problem without knowing the cause?

 

I saw a few things that might have lead up to resentments or feeling like he was out of his league.

 

Earning power. In an earlier thread you mentioned you worked out of the home and made twice as much as he did. I have read that SAHD or men whose wives make significatly more than they do are more likely to commit adultery than the wife.

 

Sex: in a thread from 4/2015 you mentioned you only achieved orgasm a handful of times with your husband, are we just talking PIV or overall. Yet you do orgasm from masturbation. Years of knowing your wife rarely ogasms when she is with you regardless of oral sex, PIV, or manual with use of toys or fingers can wear a man down,

 

Finally your flirting and constant attention from men. Have the two argued about it? Did he agree it is ok because he didn't feel he had a choice?

 

Put the three together over decades and a perfect storm is waiting to happen. A guy who rarely satisfies his wife sexually, she earns twice as much as him, with guys throwing themselves at her. How could he not think he is way out of his league? How could he not think he has been living on borrowed time forever, that it is foolish at this point to 100% commit as in a year or two max will say "I am sorry but..."

[DKT3]

You have been clear on your needs and fornthe past 8 months he has improved. Greatly?

 

To this day you don't know issues he had with you for going outside of the marriage. How can you fix a problem without knowing the cause?

 

I saw a few things that might have lead up to resentments or feeling like he was out of his league.

 

Earning power. In an earlier thread you mentioned you worked out of the home and made twice as much as he did. I have read that SAHD or men whose wives make significatly more than they do are more likely to commit adultery than the wife.

 

Sex: in a thread from 4/2015 you mentioned you only achieved orgasm a handful of times with your husband, are we just talking PIV or overall. Yet you do orgasm from masturbation. Years of knowing your wife rarely ogasms when she is with you regardless of oral sex, PIV, or manual with use of toys or fingers can wear a man down,

 

Finally your flirting and constant attention from men. Have the two argued about it? Did he agree it is ok because he didn't feel he had a choice?

 

Put the three together over decades and a perfect storm is waiting to happen. A guy who rarely satisfies his wife sexually, she earns twice as much as him, with guys throwing themselves at her. How could he not think he is way out of his league? How could he not think he has been living on borrowed time forever, that it is foolish at this point to 100% commit as in a year or two max will say "I am sorry but..."

 

Years if being emasculated then cheated on to too it off..,yes I agree.

[alsudduth]

Makes sense I suppose. But I'm going to be doing my best to prevent that.

 

We have talked a bit in the past about the fact that I make more money than him. He said it bothered him a little at first that he's worked so hard and long at his job and that I found this job that I blossomed in after switching jobs and careers a lot which happens to pay me pretty good.

 

He has said that even though it bothered him initially, that now he feels relieved to not have the pressure of having to "bring home the bacon" as they say.

 

As for the flirting, we had a problem once with a male friend that made him uncomfortable. He told me it made him uncomfortable that I hung out with this person, I looked at it from his perspective, and saw where he was coming from. So I apologized and told my friend that my husband was more important than his friendship.

 

The sex, well yeah that's been an issue I suppose, but never to the point that we didn't have it anymore or I don't enjoy having it with him.

[Honourably honest]

Als, I think you and your husband are going to be just fine. You are straight in your mind about the how and the why so you are well placed to address yourself, your issues and your insecurities. Time is the catalyst, and you have infinite time as long as you both want the marriage to work.

You have be flamed by the many flamed victims here that never made it, they will vent to hurt you. Cherry pick and keep moving forward. Where there is will, there is a way.

[Lobe]

You have a vagina. Thats really all there is to it. Dudes will talk to you and flirt with you. Not every guy that talks to you or even flirts with you is necessarily looking to score or anything either. Most of us just rather enjoy talking to and flirting with women. Its just in our dna. They might not even find you that attractive to be honest. But its not even about attraction necessarily. A lot of guys just like to make a woman feel good. If i compliment a woman for example, im not trying to be creepy or say im interested (cause im not, no offense but none of y'all can hold a candle to my wife) or anything like that. If i make a woman feel good, it makes ME feel good. So its more about me than you.

 

"Well why dont y'all do that to each other?" Some women might ask. Nah, we are always trying to tear each other down. Thats why we talk so much trash to one another. If you get a good one on a buddy, it feels great! Its hilarious to us to bash each other. To call each others manhood into question. To kick one another down a notch. Makes us feel good. The ONLY men who do this to women are abusers. Most of us would never want to hurt a woman or say the things we say to one another to a woman. It doesnt make us feel good. Even after a fight! How many of you woman have gotten this text or call the next day?... "im sorry i was such an ******* to you yesterday babe, im a dumb ass i didnt mean it." Like all of you? Lol. Bet no man ever has gotten that text from their best mate, lol. That would be absurd, and frankly unnecessary, cause we are already used to each other being dicks to one another.

 

Thats just how it goes. The dna of men. No need trying to understand it. Just accept it for what it is. And realize not every guy that talks to you is hitting on you, nor even finds you attractive necessarily.

 

Ladies if you want to thwart guys talking to you, just be cold and stand-offish. Dont make eye contact. Dont smile. Give zero chances for a conversation. We'll just think you're a stuck up bish and move on. A stuck up bish is just like a dude to us. We have no desire to make you feel good about yourself. Thats a fact!

 

 

als, you might want to read this - I found it really interesting and so did my WH, who was completely unaware of how his "attentiveness" towards other women was a problem... affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/pimping-tenderness-grooming-behaviors

[Cephalopod]

Makes sense I suppose. But I'm going to be doing my best to prevent that.

 

We have talked a bit in the past about the fact that I make more money than him. He said it bothered him a little at first that he's worked so hard and long at his job and that I found this job that I blossomed in after switching jobs and careers a lot which happens to pay me pretty good.

 

He has said that even though it bothered him initially, that now he feels relieved to not have the pressure of having to "bring home the bacon" as they say.

 

.

 

MAny (not all) women lose respect for their husbands when they end up making a higher salary than their husbands.

 

Did you lose some of your respect for him?

[merrmeade]

I don't feel that I'm overly attractive. I'm not frumpy, but I would describe myself as cute but average. I honestly don't know what it is that I do that sends out the message for guys to come up to me anytime.

I read all the responses on this page to this query of yours and have two reactions - either you do know why they do and you're playing a game with yourself and the world that you don't (which is totally possible) or you don't because - you're playing a game with yourself and the world that you don't.

 

You describe this scene outside the context of the rest of your life. I'll bet there were other instances and you could quite easily trace the history of your learning to flirt, use eye contact and pretty much attract attention. Most teenagers work at it; some get better than others. It's not just that you have a vagina.

 

I know about this kind of on-the-prowl/need-to-be-admired persona. This is my husband although he was also drop-dead gorgeous. But really that doesn't matter. It's how and what you look at when you enter a room, how you respond to others looking at you that sends the signal. It's NEVER a surprise.

 

Hell, we all learned it. THe difference is - my husband didn't stop when he married. For lots of reasons, I think but the top ones are that - it feels good to be appreciated and that's the way he learned to do it from way back which leads into another reason: He was pretty much groomed and guided into that way of relating to the world - getting his ego boosted by women's attraction to him - from a very, very early age. And as I said - we all get this to some degree from the society we live in. The difference is that married people admit this to themselves and stop the need to be admired this way, stop the looks/way of dressing/repartee/flirting that makes it happen because they see it as a kind of infidelity.

 

So I could say - if you don't know why, you should - but I don't buy it. I'll say instead - be honest. It's only 'subtle' because you're not articulating it. But you're aware of whatever it is you do/they do to make this happen at some level and that's why you're not surprised.

[Lobe]

So I could say - if you don't know why, you should - but I don't buy it. I'll say instead - be honest. It's only 'subtle' because you're not articulating it. But you're aware of whatever it is you do/they do to make this happen at some level and that's why you're not surprised.

 

K - seriously, go read this - I laughed out loud the guy "confessing" he didn't know why women fell at his feet lol affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/pimping-tenderness-grooming-behaviors